Isn't the Weather Man a comedy/drama? Usually the mix is 80% drama with 20% comedy and from my experience when they're done well you find yourself getting just as many laughs because you like the characters and you're invested in the situation. When they're done poorly, you've just watched Seth Rogan fart around and a bunch of meaningless celebrity cameos.

Jun 18, 2018 11:51:22 GMT Big Pete said:

Isn't the Weather Man a comedy/drama? Usually the mix is 80% drama with 20% comedy and from my experience when they're done well you find yourself getting just as many laughs because you like the characters and you're invested in the situation. When they're done poorly, you've just watched Seth Rogan fart around and a bunch of meaningless celebrity cameos.

Shit, apparently you can't multi quote across pages in a thread. I'll just tag Emperor then.

I think BP has it nailed here. I think it's tricky to nail the perfect dramedy blend. You err too much in the wrong direction to end up with something to heart wrenching like Click or just flat out terrible like Funny People.

I feel like the comedy in dramedy isn't meant to be like Hangover level LOL comedy... Rather just moments of levity to break up the somberness. But also, I liked About Schmidt, and so I've got no problems with Weatherman being lumped in with it.

Maybe it is an American thing? I dunno...

1. The Rock 

Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen. ~ John Mason

Released 

1996

Credits 

Director: Michael Bay 

Writer: David Weisburg 

Writer: Douglas Cook 

Cast 

Nicolas Cage (Stanley Goodspeed)

Sean Connery (John Mason)

Ed Harris (General Hummel)

David Morse (Tom Baxter)

John Spencer (Director Womack)

Critical 

7.4/10 (IMDB)

66% (RT Critics)

85% (RT Audience)

Box Office 

Lifetime Gross: $134,069,511 (#4)

Adjusted Gross: $277,845,400 (#2)

At the Oscars 

- Nomination for Best Sound 

And the unsurprising , very deserving #1 - and a movie I think can be argued as the greatest pure action flick of all time and certainly a cut above most.

The writing is really what sets it apart from the pack , just superb from top to bottom. General Hummel cuts some amazing promo's and gives some great speeches , the interaction between Goodspeed and Mason is full of great one liners and interactions and their chemistry is on point throughout the whole movie. Take the scene where the guys foot doesn't stop twitching as a perfect example of just a great subtle one liner.

And Ed Harris as General Hummel might be the greatest action movie villain of all time , the performance sets it apart and the character arc he portrays is fucking incredible. The scene of the ambush in the shower room was so god damn intense and equally heartbreaking for both us as a viewer and even him as a viewer and his turn at the end was what really puts him over the top IMO - sympathetic villain. David Morse is great in that scene as well.

The bit players in this movie are great as well , John C. McGinley , Tony Todd , Forsythe , Biehn - just love them all.

I've seen this movie so much I could pretty much cover the whole thing from memory , rewatched this again just to confirm it's position over GI60S on my list and it wasn't even that close when it was over. As I said I think an argument can be made that this is the greatest action movie of all time , most of that being on superb writing , great chemistry between the hero's and a great fucking villain.

Jun 18, 2018 13:30:09 GMT UT said:

And the unsurprising , very deserving #1 - and a movie I think can be argued as the greatest pure action flick of all time and certainly a cut above most.

The writing is really what sets it apart from the pack , just superb from top to bottom. General Hummel cuts some amazing promo's and gives some great speeches , the interaction between Goodspeed and Mason is full of great one liners and interactions and their chemistry is on point throughout the whole movie. Take the scene where the guys foot doesn't stop twitching as a perfect example of just a great subtle one liner.

And Ed Harris as General Hummel might be the greatest action movie villain of all time , the performance sets it apart and the character arc he portrays is fucking incredible. The scene of the ambush in the shower room was so god damn intense and equally heartbreaking for both us as a viewer and even him as a viewer and his turn at the end was what really puts him over the top IMO - sympathetic villain. David Morse is great in that scene as well.

The bit players in this movie are great as well , John C. McGinley , Tony Todd , Forsythe , Biehn - just love them all.

I've seen this movie so much I could pretty much cover the whole thing from memory , rewatched this again just to confirm it's position over GI60S on my list and it wasn't even that close when it was over. As I said I think an argument can be made that this is the greatest action movie of all time , most of that being on superb writing , great chemistry between the hero's and a great fucking villain.

Despite this not being my Number One or Two, it was my favorite of The Big Three, and is definitely a deserving champ.

Thank you to everyone for finally allowing me to get this Cage countdown outta my system. Now we can all move on together!

Well you're wrong and that's okay , it's only Cage movie produced where I believe you can point to and say "that's one of the best , or the best in the history of that genre" - The Rock will be what defines Cage's legacy more than ever 20 or 30 years from now I believe.

And thanks to 🤯 for being so insistent on the Cage list , I was skeptical all along but in the end after watching and rewatching so much more of his work in a shorter period of time I have a new great appreciation for him. The guy was a star , he was a great actor and he had one of the best runs of any actor in history and deserves to be commended for that. On the flip side of that though , fuck him for allowing his star to fade and his once great career to become a joke.

It ended up being one of my favorite countdowns though , and Cage catapulted himself much higher in my favorite actor standings. Not sure about top ten but it's a lot closer than I ever thought it'd be.

Just gonna assume this movie was the reason behind Rock's namesake.

01 Wicker Man
02 Face Off
03 The Rock
04 Ridgemont High
05 Snake Eyes
06 Gone in 60 Seconds
07 National Treasure
08 Kick Ass
09 G-Force
10 Ghost Rider

I never really thought of The Rock as one of the greatest action movies ever. But now that I think about it, there's very few I enjoy on the same level. As UT says, it does get pretty much everything right, although there are a couple of scenes that are overdone/unnecessary. I'm talking about the lab scene right at the start, and the car chase.

One of the best moments is right at the end of aforementioned car chase.



First time I saw that I burst out laughing and rewatched it a few times.

1. Matchstick Men
2. The Rock
3. Adaptation
4. Face/Off
5. Leaving Las Vegas
6. Con Air
7. Kick-Ass
8. Season of the Witch
9. The Sorceror's Apprentice
10. The Weather Man

Jun 18, 2018 12:29:39 GMT 🤯 said:

I feel like the comedy in dramedy isn't meant to be like Hangover level LOL comedy... Rather just moments of levity to break up the somberness. But also, I liked About Schmidt, and so I've got no problems with Weatherman being lumped in with it.

I like that phrase. It's accurate. The problem is, the humourous moments always come at the expense of the tragic protagonist. I'm watching the dramatic moments depicting the life of a person who is failing in every way, sometimes not even through his own doing. Then I'm supposed to be amused by his failings? Eh. Doesn't work for me. It does work if the film or show in question is obviously unrealistic. Then I can detach myself, acknowledge it's a different world, and laugh. But films like Schmidt and Weatherman do the drama aspect so well that I can't laugh at their misfortunes, just as I can't laugh at someone who's going through a rough time in the real world.

Jun 18, 2018 14:22:03 GMT Emperor said:

I never really thought of The Rock as one of the greatest action movies ever. But now that I think about it, there's very few I enjoy on the same level. As UT says, it does get pretty much everything right, although there are a couple of scenes that are overdone/unnecessary. I'm talking about the lab scene right at the start, and the car chase.

One of the best moments is right at the end of aforementioned car chase.



First time I saw that I burst out laughing and rewatched it a few times.

1. Matchstick Men
2. The Rock
3. Adaptation
4. Face/Off
5. Leaving Las Vegas
6. Con Air
7. Kick-Ass
8. Season of the Witch
9. The Sorceror's Apprentice
10. The Weather Man

Jun 18, 2018 12:29:39 GMT 🤯 said:

I feel like the comedy in dramedy isn't meant to be like Hangover level LOL comedy... Rather just moments of levity to break up the somberness. But also, I liked About Schmidt, and so I've got no problems with Weatherman being lumped in with it.

I like that phrase. It's accurate. The problem is, the humourous moments always come at the expense of the tragic protagonist. I'm watching the dramatic moments depicting the life of a person who is failing in every way, sometimes not even through his own doing. Then I'm supposed to be amused by his failings? Eh. Doesn't work for me. It does work if the film or show in question is obviously unrealistic. Then I can detach myself, acknowledge it's a different world, and laugh. But films like Schmidt and Weatherman do the drama aspect so well that I can't laugh at their misfortunes, just as I can't laugh at someone who's going through a rough time in the real world.

You're such an empathic hunk.

While I did enjoy The Rock quite a bit it is no way shape or form in the running for best action film of all-time. Especially not in a world where First Blood, The Predator, Die Hard, Aliens, John Wick and The Terminator exist.

That being said The Rock was #3 on my list. It's definitely well written and superbly paced. It represents a time when Michael Bay was actually GOOD and I looked forward to his films.

10. National Treasure
9. Gone in 60 secs.
8.Con-Air
7.Raising Arizona
6.Kiss of Death
5.Leaving Las Vegas
4.Fast Times in Ridgemont High
3.The Rock
2.Lord of War
1. Face Off

The shit if it isn't , it's a better acted and ESPECIALLY better written movie than all of those , not too mention that for as much shit as Bay gets - this movie is his masterpiece. The Rock is the epitome of an action movie , from brilliant dialogue , top notch monologues , a great quippy duo and of course the actual action and set pieces that take place.

The biggest argument for The Rock is the writing , especially the nuance of some of it. Match that with Bay's directorial style and you have an action masterpiece. None of those movies have writing on this level.

LOL Die Hard, The Terminator, and Aliens didn't have writing as good as The Rock? Seriously???

Yes. That's what I said.

Though what do you expect when you have two of the greatest screenwriters ever as ghostwriters on the movie. You take your guys , I'll take Tarantino and Sorkin both being writers on The Rock. Which shows why the writing was above and beyond what you get in a typical action movie of this ilk.

So I feel like we got our wires crossed on this list. Ya'll said it was a Nic Cage list and so I put together a list of all of Cage's best performances. Everyone else took it a little more to heart and stuck with the hits. That's fine and all, but when you say Nic Cage I'm instantly thinking of classic moments like dressing up in a bear suit just to king hit somebody. I'm telling people to pick a card, I'm moshing in a desert, I'm putting on women's panty hose on my head to rob a store for some nappies (or diapers). In other words, I get Cagey!

1. The Wicker Man
2. Vampire's Kiss
3. Bad Liutenant
4. Deadfall
5. Raising Arizona
6. Adaptation
7. Outcast
8. Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
9. Wild At Heart
10. Face/Off

No specific order, but that right there ladies and germs is the Nic Cage I remember and the guy who can take a piece of shit and make it a little bit nuts.

I've always interpreted the "best actor X" films as the best films featuring actor X. Not the best actor X performance even if that film is otherwise trash. They usually coincidence but not so much with the rollercoaster career of Nicolas Cage.

I don't even know if Pete meant best performances or Cagiest performances.

I've not heard of 50% of Pete's list :lol:

Jun 18, 2018 16:28:28 GMT UT said:

Yes. That's what I said.

Though what do you expect when you have two of the greatest screenwriters ever as ghostwriters on the movie. You take your guys , I'll take Tarantino and Sorkin both being writers on The Rock. Which shows why the writing was above and beyond what you get in a typical action movie of this ilk.

I could care less about the names.   I only care about the finished product.   50 years from now movies like Die Hard, Aliens, The Predator and The Terminator will still be considered classics and must see material.    No will even remember The Rock in that time frame.   It's barely relevant NOW.             

Still can't believe the Bee Scene only got an honorable mention!

Jun 18, 2018 17:59:41 GMT thereallt said:

Jun 18, 2018 16:28:28 GMT UT said:

Yes. That's what I said.

Though what do you expect when you have two of the greatest screenwriters ever as ghostwriters on the movie. You take your guys , I'll take Tarantino and Sorkin both being writers on The Rock. Which shows why the writing was above and beyond what you get in a typical action movie of this ilk.

I could care less about the names.   I only care about the finished product.   50 years from now movies like Die Hard, Aliens, The Predator and The Terminator will still be considered classics and must see material.    No will even remember The Rock in that time frame.   It's barely relevant NOW.             

So says you. It seems to be pretty damn relevant everywhere I look and those names have bared out to be some of the most important names in Hollywood. The Rock is considered a classic , just because you're old doesn't mean another generation can't diem something to be a classic.

Fuck Predator. Arnold is a shit actor. He isn't better than ANY of the top three in this movie.

Fuck Die Hard. It's not even the best in the series.

Fuck Terminator. See Die Hard.

And fuck Aliens. I don't have a real reason because I don't care enough but fuck Aliens anyways.

Fuck most of the 80s while I'm at it. The Rock is superior.

Jun 18, 2018 18:16:28 GMT UT said:

Jun 18, 2018 17:59:41 GMT thereallt said:

I could care less about the names.   I only care about the finished product.   50 years from now movies like Die Hard, Aliens, The Predator and The Terminator will still be considered classics and must see material.    No will even remember The Rock in that time frame.   It's barely relevant NOW.             

So says you. It seems to be pretty damn relevant everywhere I look and those names have bared out to be some of the most important names in Hollywood. The Rock is considered a classic , just because you're old doesn't mean another generation can't diem something to be a classic.

Fuck Predator. Arnold is a shit actor. He isn't better than ANY of the top three in this movie.

Fuck Die Hard. It's not even the best in the series.

Fuck Terminator. See Die Hard.

And fuck Aliens. I don't have a real reason because I don't care enough but fuck Aliens anyways.

Fuck most of the 80s while I'm at it. The Rock is superior.

Whoa, let's not get crazy here. All these films are fucking great (and collectively 1b to True Lies).

Jun 18, 2018 18:30:23 GMT 🤯 said:

Jun 18, 2018 18:16:28 GMT UT said:

So says you. It seems to be pretty damn relevant everywhere I look and those names have bared out to be some of the most important names in Hollywood. The Rock is considered a classic , just because you're old doesn't mean another generation can't diem something to be a classic.

Fuck Predator. Arnold is a shit actor. He isn't better than ANY of the top three in this movie.

Fuck Die Hard. It's not even the best in the series.

Fuck Terminator. See Die Hard.

And fuck Aliens. I don't have a real reason because I don't care enough but fuck Aliens anyways.

Fuck most of the 80s while I'm at it. The Rock is superior.

Whoa, let's not get crazy here. All these films are fucking great (and collectively 1b to True Lies).

I stand by my statement.

So says you.

So says history. Die Hard and The Terminator were selected for the National Film Registry. Aliens and The Predator are two of the most influential action films of all-time. People to this day know where "Get to da choppa!!!" or "Game over man, Game over " comes from

The Rock hasn't had anywhere NEAR that kind of cultural impact. It's a terrific action film but nothing more than that.

Fuck Die Hard, Term AND Aliens? Perhaps calculating a dozen countdowns has warped his mind. I'm sure of it.

I do have to thank The Rock for making me fear eating tide pods before tide pods were even a thing.

I'd take The Rock over Die Hard and Predator. Easily. The Terminator is a close call. They're on the same level. Not seen Aliens. That said, those films are a lot more well-known than The Rock. You expect the average person, not even a film lover, to have heard of the films LT is talking about. You don't expect them to have heard of The Rock.

You say that , but The Rock outperformed all of them at the box office. I think the lot of you are sleeping on the impact that The Rock made both at the time and throughout history. It's constantly brought up as one of the greatest action flicks of all time.

Not too mention semantics either of me saying it's the greatest PURE action flick of all time where as both Terminator and Alien are heavy into the scifi genre as well. Regardless I'll take it any which way because of the writing team allowing Bay to do what he does best and better acting.

Having said that , I feel bad for saying bad things about Die Hard , that was a little too far and the only movie mentioned I would actually consider in contention.

I've never seen The Rock. Pretty shocking.

Jun 18, 2018 21:01:38 GMT UT said:

You say that , but The Rock outperformed all of them at the box office. I think the lot of you are sleeping on the impact that The Rock made both at the time and throughout history. It's constantly brought up as one of the greatest action flicks of all time.

Must have been a far bigger hit in America than it was in England.

The Rock is great (I don’t know about greatest of all time), it was my number two. Definitely the best Cage action movie.