The Rainmaker's back, baybaayy

I was Team Firing Squad until they laid hands on Red Shoes. Those mother fuckers.

Anyone watch Jay White vs. Michael Elgin? I skipped it but feel like I should watch it anyway. Could be a good match.

Ah it's a Saturday and I just watched Yano vs Ibushi live. Not as good as Yano vs ZSJ, but still worth a watch. Taka is giving ZSJ the hype up as I type.

I would have been super pissed if Fale beat Tanahashi in that way. Fortunately Red Shoes is one of a few referees with common sense and used his great judgment to restore justice to the world.

Jay White vs Michael Elgin was pretty good. A match that deserved better than the opening slot.

I skipped Yano/Ibushi but watched the finish on a wreddit and now I kind of wish I just watched it. Yano has surprised me this G1.

Just finished Ishii/Goto though and god damn. Might be match of the tournament for me so far.

Jul 19, 2018 22:49:42 GMT Emperor said:

Nobody's going to listen when I recommend a Yano match, but I'll say it anyway: watch Yano vs ZSJ. Yano fighting his trickster instincts and trying to be a real wrestler again is a really fun mini-arc. Especially when he's against the best technical wrestler in the world.

Naito vs Ishii and Omega vs Goto were both really really good. If I had to pick one it would be Naito vs Ishii. It was more consistent. Omega vs Goto had a lull in the middle.

Is that from today's (21st) show? I may the only one but I love me some Yano, I didn't really see him much before when he was just a comedy act  essentially but I've been enjoying the fuck out of his matches trying not to cheat and such. Been some of my favorite stuff thus far. 

I'm finishing up the show from yesterday right now and it's so refreshing to see a referee act like a human being instead of a dunce, I loved the way Red Shoes handled the Fale v. Tanahashi match. I found myself actually clapping at my tv Haha.

ZSJ vs Yano is from the 19th. Thursday's show.

Jul 21, 2018 20:09:13 GMT Emperor said:

ZSJ vs Yano is from the 19th. Thursday's show.

Oh right, that one I did see. Been a lot of fun in the tags too. I'm honestly looking forward to his matches as much as anyone. Question though, were his matches that bad before this current gimmick? Like were they gimmicky in a bad way? 

Jul 22, 2018 0:39:06 GMT Ice said:

Question though, were his matches that bad before this current gimmick? Like were they gimmicky in a bad way? 

You'll get a different answer depending on who you ask. I personally love Toru Yano matches. He's one of my favourite participants in every G1 and he's must-watch. Others think he's stupid, and not in a good way.

I recommend you see for yourself:

SPOILER: Click to show

Yano is OK. Like Fale he fills a quota and offers wrestlers a change of pace from doing balls to the walls action matches. He's got his shtick, but it's over and he's got good chemistry with guys like Tanahashi & Suzuki. From a kayfabe perspective, his inclusion just screams of a conflict of interest. Yano hasn't been in a serious position to win the G-1 and yet despite being a proud underachiever, he constantly finds himself involved in the most prestigious tournament of the year. Clearly Gedo has massive sway and his influence has seen the likes of Yoshi-Hashi and Toru Yano qualify without question when more deserving challengers should be involved.

I've only been following NJPW since 2011, but supposedly in the early-to-mid 2000s he was a serious wrestler before he turned heel and just started blatantly cheating to mess with his opponents. By the time I started watching, he was basically the guy you see today. In fact since he fought RVD on the show I watched, I presume that's where he got the YTR taunt from.

I hate all the interference and DQ bullshit in Fale & Tama Tonga’s matches. It’s the biggest down spot to the G1 this year.

What little I have seen of Yano (gifs and short clips) I have loved. Then again I love things like slow mo, invisible hand grenades and little girls fighting against trained wrestlers so I can see why some won't.

Jul 22, 2018 14:25:48 GMT SM said:

I hate all the interference and DQ bullshit in Fale & Tama Tonga’s matches. It’s the biggest down spot to the G1 this year.

I'm torn on it. I like the Bullet Club Civil War angle they're doing, but I'm not sold on the whole "Fale and Tonga don't care about winning, they just want to hurt people," thing people are talking about.

They clearly try to win their matches and they do so by cheating. Then when things don't go their way, they just punch Red Shoes or get disqualified. It's underwhelming.

They should have either committed to Fale & Tonga winning their matches by cheating, or have them completely throw their matches by just ganging up on their opponents and beating them to the point that they're putting their opponents at a disadvantage in the G1 going forward. This halfway bullshit kind of sucks.

But, I do have faith in them carrying out the story at least. The Civil War is only just getting started.

Jul 22, 2018 16:03:39 GMT RT said:

Jul 22, 2018 14:25:48 GMT SM said:

I hate all the interference and DQ bullshit in Fale & Tama Tonga’s matches. It’s the biggest down spot to the G1 this year.

I'm torn on it. I like the Bullet Club Civil War angle they're doing, but I'm not sold on the whole "Fale and Tonga don't care about winning, they just want to hurt people," thing people are talking about.

They clearly try to win their matches and they do so by cheating. Then when things don't go their way, they just punch Red Shoes or get disqualified. It's underwhelming.

They should have either committed to Fale & Tonga winning their matches by cheating, or have them completely throw their matches by just ganging up on their opponents and beating them to the point that they're putting their opponents at a disadvantage in the G1 going forward. This halfway bullshit kind of sucks.

But, I do have faith in them carrying out the story at least. The Civil War is only just getting started.

Do you think maybe it's kind of a long con in a way? The cheating seems (to me anyway) to be there as a placeholder until they're ready to further the storyline and actually have it matter. I would agree that it's not exactly compelling for the G1 (Mind you I'm a G1 virgin) but it seems to me like it's leading somewhere.

EDIT: I just saw this quote elsewhere. Makes sense.

"Which is why Fale And Tonga attack as many as they can. You cannot lose the block if your the only one in it.

Smart guys."

However if that's the case they need to move ass and actually start taking people out.

The BCOG stuff is working beautifully. The live crowd hates it, the fans hate it, and the other wrestlers are starting to have enough and will be cheered more for thwarting them. The constant interference borders on hilarity just as it did during the original run of the Bullet Club with Devitt. The reason why it's palatable is because the rest of the G1 is NUTS. Story driven shenanigans in the middle isn't ruining the entire event, which is a really healthy balance. A bit of contrast and diversity is good.

Jul 22, 2018 21:16:32 GMT Ice said:

Jul 22, 2018 16:03:39 GMT RT said:

I'm torn on it. I like the Bullet Club Civil War angle they're doing, but I'm not sold on the whole "Fale and Tonga don't care about winning, they just want to hurt people," thing people are talking about.

They clearly try to win their matches and they do so by cheating. Then when things don't go their way, they just punch Red Shoes or get disqualified. It's underwhelming.

They should have either committed to Fale & Tonga winning their matches by cheating, or have them completely throw their matches by just ganging up on their opponents and beating them to the point that they're putting their opponents at a disadvantage in the G1 going forward. This halfway bullshit kind of sucks.

But, I do have faith in them carrying out the story at least. The Civil War is only just getting started.

Do you think maybe it's kind of a long con in a way? The cheating seems (to me anyway) to be there as a placeholder until they're ready to further the storyline and actually have it matter. I would agree that it's not exactly compelling for the G1 (Mind you I'm a G1 virgin) but it seems to me like it's leading somewhere.

EDIT: I just saw this quote elsewhere. Makes sense.

"Which is why Fale And Tonga attack as many as they can. You cannot lose the block if your the only one in it.

Smart guys."

However if that's the case they need to move ass and actually start taking people out.

You hit the nail on the head. That's pretty much what I meant with my post. I have faith in NJPW to play it out, and this angle only started a couple weeks ago. They'll do it justice, I'm sure, and I'm eager to see where they go with it because I like the idea of the OGBC breaking off and saying "fuck this, fuck Bullet Club, fuck the Elite, fuck all of you we're done with this shit."

But at the same time, the way they've kicked off this story is lazy and leaves a lot to be desired. Either start taking guys out and win the block by kayfabe injuring everyone else, or let them win by cheating. Instead they lose the match because they try to be sneaky and they suck at it, then the beat down starts. It makes it look like Fale, Tonga and Loa don't have a clue what they're doing, when in reality they're NJPW vets that started the Bullet Club and should be schooling everyone else while all the infighting is going on.

Jul 23, 2018 1:01:26 GMT Krimzon said:

The BCOG stuff is working beautifully. The live crowd hates it, the fans hate it, and the other wrestlers are starting to have enough and will be cheered more for thwarting them. The constant interference borders on hilarity just as it did during the original run of the Bullet Club with Devitt. The reason why it's palatable is because the rest of the G1 is NUTS. Story driven shenanigans in the middle isn't ruining the entire event, which is a really healthy balance. A bit of contrast and diversity is good.

In that sense, sure, it works. If the point is just to piss everyone off, they've succeeded.

I just think it could be better, is all. It's a small gripe, because I'm still loving the G1 and everything they've done so far.

Jul 23, 2018 3:44:17 GMT RT said:

Jul 22, 2018 21:16:32 GMT Ice said:

Do you think maybe it's kind of a long con in a way? The cheating seems (to me anyway) to be there as a placeholder until they're ready to further the storyline and actually have it matter. I would agree that it's not exactly compelling for the G1 (Mind you I'm a G1 virgin) but it seems to me like it's leading somewhere.

EDIT: I just saw this quote elsewhere. Makes sense.

"Which is why Fale And Tonga attack as many as they can. You cannot lose the block if your the only one in it.

Smart guys."

However if that's the case they need to move ass and actually start taking people out.

You hit the nail on the head. That's pretty much what I meant with my post. I have faith in NJPW to play it out, and this angle only started a couple weeks ago. They'll do it justice, I'm sure, and I'm eager to see where they go with it because I like the idea of the OGBC breaking off and saying "fuck this, fuck Bullet Club, fuck the Elite, fuck all of you we're done with this shit."

But at the same time, the way they've kicked off this story is lazy and leaves a lot to be desired. Either start taking guys out and win the block by kayfabe injuring everyone else, or let them win by cheating. Instead they lose the match because they try to be sneaky and they suck at it, then the beat down starts. It makes it look like Fale, Tonga and Loa don't have a clue what they're doing, when in reality they're NJPW vets that started the Bullet Club and should be schooling everyone else while all the infighting is going on.

Jul 23, 2018 1:01:26 GMT Krimzon said:

The BCOG stuff is working beautifully. The live crowd hates it, the fans hate it, and the other wrestlers are starting to have enough and will be cheered more for thwarting them. The constant interference borders on hilarity just as it did during the original run of the Bullet Club with Devitt. The reason why it's palatable is because the rest of the G1 is NUTS. Story driven shenanigans in the middle isn't ruining the entire event, which is a really healthy balance. A bit of contrast and diversity is good.

In that sense, sure, it works. If the point is just to piss everyone off, they've succeeded.

I just think it could be better, is all. It's a small gripe, because I'm still loving the G1 and everything they've done so far.

Why do you think it's lazy? Considering there was subtle but significant hints on being the elite and their reasoning, it's seems pretty fleshed out to me. (I've only been full-time since the SF special though, enlighten me if im way off.)

I haven't watched Being The Elite. What hints?

Jul 23, 2018 4:38:08 GMT RT said:

I haven't watched Being The Elite. What hints?

They've had more than one segment during Cody and Kenny's struggle for power where almost the entire bullet club was on in the same room and arguing and Tama Tonga was saying absolutely nothing, sitting in the corner, fuming around the bullshit happening. I would say it happened once or twice.

One thing I will say is that the timing of this all could have been better. This kicked off in America because the Bullet Club is huge here. They wanted to end the G1 Special with something to get American fans in a frenzy. Following up with the G1 couldn't be worse, as for such a tournament, all they can do is stall. When you have to stall, the only options are shenanigans and fuck finishes. There's also the issue of having so many matches in a short span. It's amplifying it.

Once the G1 is over, things should be a lot more focused and less overbearing. I just hope fans are still willing to give the angle a chance by then.

What bothered me most about it is that they do this big angle and then just have Tonga lose to Omega by DQ. That should have been one of the few losses Omega had to set up a title match between the two. Just halted their momentum a little having Tama lose I felt.

Well my quest to watch all of the nights is over, it was too much. I think from here on I'm just going to be watching the singles matches. As much as I enjoy the tags.


Thoughts on Michael Elgin? This is my first exposure to him for the most part and I have yet to not enjoy one of his matches in this tournament.

You watched every match including the opening tags? That is commendable. So far I have exceeded my own expectations by watching all the singles matches. I fast forwarded through the less interesting ones. It's a nice thing to do in combination with grinding on Dragon Quest VIII :lol:

Jul 28, 2018 7:26:17 GMT Ice said:

Thoughts on Michael Elgin? This is my first exposure to him for the most part and I have yet to not enjoy one of his matches in this tournament.

When he burst onto the scene in the G1 2015 his strongman act got over very quickly and he was certainly a breath of fresh air. While it's unfair to say that he hasn't evolved at all, he has progressed very little in the past few years. It doesn't help that he has had unfavourable booking and an unfortunate injury during a decent push. Recently he won the NEVER title in a (very rare) triple threat but dropped it to the former champion immediately after. I've always thought he was pretty lacklustre in the ring and this tournament is no exception.

The mid-tournament cards are usually not the best, but Okada vs YOSHI-HASHI and ZSJ vs Ishii were standout matches from the past couple of days. The rest is pretty forgettable.

Jul 28, 2018 8:07:09 GMT Emperor said:

You watched every match including the opening tags? That is commendable. So far I have exceeded my own expectations by watching all the singles matches. I fast forwarded through the less interesting ones. It's a nice thing to do in combination with grinding on Dragon Quest VIII

Jul 28, 2018 7:26:17 GMT Ice said:

Thoughts on Michael Elgin? This is my first exposure to him for the most part and I have yet to not enjoy one of his matches in this tournament.

When he burst onto the scene in the G1 2015 his strongman act got over very quickly and he was certainly a breath of fresh air. While it's unfair to say that he hasn't evolved at all, he has progressed very little in the past few years. It doesn't help that he has had unfavourable booking and an unfortunate injury during a decent push. Recently he won the NEVER title in a (very rare) triple threat but dropped it to the former champion immediately after. I've always thought he was pretty lacklustre in the ring and this tournament is no exception.

The mid-tournament cards are usually not the best, but Okada vs YOSHI-HASHI and ZSJ vs Ishii were standout matches from the past couple of days. The rest is pretty forgettable.

I think being in my honeymoon stage with this company is making me love just about every single match I watch. Because I'm loving me some Elgin right now and find myself excited whenever his music hits. It'll be interesting to see if I still feel the same way by say, January 4th. I'm glad I haven't really had the time to watch the last couple of days because it seems like the time to skip. I figured the whole tourney couldn't be as high octane as the beginning, and I'm assuming the end will be. 

I just finished Evil vs. Hangman and I found that match to be pretty slow at first but they really got me by then end. Good match. And of course directly after Switchblade's music hits and I immediately want to punch my TV I hate that fucker so much. I wish someone would throw him off a building. Cheating asshole. 


Edit: Okay. Okada v. Yoshi-Hashi just gave me several heart attacks on the near falls. What a nice back and forth match that was. 

Elgin has been really good lately. There was a stage last year where it seemed like he was going to be phased out of New Japan and possibly blacklisted from several independents because of his problems outside of the ring. It seems like he was aware of this, shed a lot of weight and came into this run as sharp as I've ever seen him. He hasn't changed his approach to his in-ring, but he just looks focused and making the most of every outing.

I may as well touch on my history with Elgin. I started watching him back when I first got into ROH around 2011. He was a member of the House of Truth (alongside Roderick Strong) and he was one of the more impressive prospects due to his feats of strength. By 2012 it was clear that he was one of the better guys on the roster, but his push was stalled and in typical ROH fashion, by the time he won the championship, it felt like the moment had passed. To make matters worse, all these rumours started coming out about Elgin quitting wrestling to become a baseball player and he was having VISA issues so his main event run was over before it started. By 2015, he was just 'there' in ROH and they seemed to be making light of him being a loose cannon.

Supposedly as the story goes, Hiroshi Tanahashi scouted Michael Elgin when he worked a few ROH shows in 2015, put in the good word to Gedo and he was on his way to NJPW. As it turned out, it was exactly what he needed. A fresh start where he could just hit his power moves without being a failed experiment. He was doing pretty well as well, he wrestled Kenny Omega in a rare Intercontinental Ladder Championship match which went down a treat and was booked relatively strong for his place on the card. Then for whatever reason, his career plateud when Naito busted up his face and took his IC Championship and he was just floating around New Japan. Every once in awhile he'd have a good match, but 2017 set the bar so high in terms of action packed matches, it was like small potatos.

Switchblade has been one of the standouts in the tournament for me. His match with Juice in America hinted at greatness. His first three G1 matches established that further. Actually my favourite Elgin match in the tournament is against Jay White. He's really found his niche as a character. I kinda like the crafty ways he cheats. As opposed to BCOG who just do ref bumps and run ins all the time.

I'm glad you enjoyed Okada vs YOSHI-HASHI but it's even better with context. Okada is the leader of the CHAOS stable. YOSHI-HASHI is the bottom feeder of that stable, the job guy. Somehow he finds his way in the G1 every year despite poor performances. 90% of the match is Okada not taking him seriously at all. He was barely breaking a sweat. Even when he got some offense in, Okada shut it down pretty quickly and hit the modified Rainmaker he used to beat him in their first meeting back in 2012. Then the match really picked up to a hot finish.

Tama Tonga really showing he deserve this push by having the worst fucking match every night.

Jul 28, 2018 15:50:08 GMT KITN said:

Tama Tonga really showing he deserve this push by having the worst fucking match every night.

Hard to judge that when his goal is to ruin the G1.

Was that his gimmick last year, too?

Ibushi vs Ishii is fantastic. One of the best matches of the tournament for sure. Naito vs Goto and Omega vs SANADA followed it, but both were minor disappointments.

A Block
8 points (4-1-0) EVIL, Hiroshi Tanahashi
6 points (3-2-0) Jay White, Minoru Suzuki, Kazuchika Okada
4 points (2-3-0) Michael Elgin, Togi Makabe, Bad Luck Fale
2 points (1-4-0) Hangman Page, YOSHI-HASHI

B Block
10 points (5-0-0) Kenny Omega
8 points (4-1-0) Tetsuya Naito
6 points (3-2-0) SANADA, Kota Ibushi, Zack Sabre Jr.
4 points (2-3-0) Tomohiro Ishii, Hirooki Goto
2 points (1-4-0) Tama Tonga, Toru Yano, Juice Robinson

I'm pretty sure anybody 4 points or below is mathematically eliminated. Or at least the chances of them winning is inconceivable low.

Let's start with B Block. Omega has a perfect score. His final four matches are ZSJ, Ishii, Yano, and Ibushi. For Omega vs Ibushi to be meaningful, Ibushi needs to get within a 2 point range. I don't see Yano beating Omega, so ZSJ and/or Ishii have to get the job done. ZSJ is more probably. Their first ever singles meeting, and ZSJ has caught many NJPW wrestlers offguard with his unorthodox style. It's possible. Naito vs Ibushi will be a crunch match because the loser will almost certainly forfeit his chance to make the final.

A Block. Suzuki and Okada have fought back from 0-2 starts to be near the top of the block. White has dropped two losses after his perfect 3-0 start. EVIL and Tanahashi have snuck to the top, somewhat under the radar. However EVIL has yet to face any of the top guys, whereas Tanahashi has already met Suzuki, Okada and White. I have a feeling Okada's going to beat everyone and make it to the final.

I had a brief discussion about this on wreddit and I’m pretty impressed with how unpredictable this year’s G1 has become.

I thought Omega/Ibushi would be the main build, like their match would be to decide the block winner. It still could be, but Omega needs to lose twice for that to happen and I don’t see it.

Instead I think Omega wins every match except Ibushi beats him. It ends up being meaningless and Omega still wins the G1 (beating Tanahashi in the finals) but he chooses Ibushi as his WK opponent because they’re friends and Ibushi was the only person to beat him in the G1.

Or...Naito wins the rest of his matches and Omega/Ibushi is the deciding match. If Omega wins, he’s in the finals. If Ibushi wins, Naito moves on. Omega sort of expects his friend to lie down for him, but Ibushi is too proud and wins. This sets up a title match between them and the winner faces the finals winner (Naito or Okada/Tanahashi) at WK.