10. Keenan Allen 
- 32 Receptions 
- 372 Yards 
- 1 Touchdown 
- 11.6 YPR 

9. Tyreek Hill 
- 27 Receptions 
- 425 Yards 
- 3 Touchdowns 
- 15.7 YPR 

8. Adam Thielen 
- 47 Receptions 
- 589 Yards 
- 3 Touchdowns 
- 12.5 YPR 

7. Davante Adams
- 37 Receptions 
- 425 Yards 
- 4 Touchdowns 
- 11.5 YPR 

6. A.J. Green
- 26 Receptions 
- 409 Yards 
- 5 Touchdowns 
- 15.7 YPR 

5. Julio Jones 
- 34 Receptions 
- 565 Yards 
- 0 Touchdowns 
- 16.6 YPR 

4. Odell Beckham Jr. 
- 39 Receptions 
- 462 Yards 
- 1 Touchdown 
- 11.8 YPR 

3. Michael Thomas 
- 46 Receptions 
- 519 Yards 
- 3 Touchdowns 
- 11.3 YPR 

2. Deandre Hopkins 
- 39 Receptions 
- 594 Yards 
- 2 Touchdowns 
- 15.2 YPR 

1. Antonio Brown 
- 35 Receptions 
- 373 Yards 
- 5 Touchdowns 
- 10.7 YPR 

We figured since it was a topic that came up in the Tailgate thread this week , we should do a list on receivers. I'm happy with the combined results , I think Davante tends to get overlooked or underrated alot and Thielen as much as I hate him - is doing some work on the Vikings. It's always going to be hard to surplant the big six but guys like Julio have become incredibly overrated IMO. You're 6'2" and can jump out of the building - sooner or later you are part of the reason why you aren't getting any touchdowns. I've seen him drop plenty of catchable balls in that area. He is putting up great yardage this season but also has the benefit of being in a ton of shootouts and getting a lot of garbage time plays. I believe in Julio's talent but I'm losing faith in the player , I'm hoping he can find a way to prove me wrong.

Deandre Hopkins is the best wide receiver in the NFL

Michael Thomas I think might be a little high, he's got DREW BREES slinging him the ball. That's bound to inflate his numbers somewhat, the only one on the list who has a better QB throwing him the ball is Davante Adams.


The rest if the list is straight though, except Julio would still be in my top 4.    Not his fault Matt Ryan blows in the red zone.

Oct 10, 2018 22:51:26 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Deandre Hopkins is the best wide receiver in the NFL

I actually had him third - I don’t think he’s the best at all. Brown has that crown until someone emphatically takes it from him.

Oct 10, 2018 23:33:43 GMT thereallt said:

Michael Thomas I think might be a little high, he's got DREW BREES slinging him the ball. That's bound to inflate his numbers somewhat, the only one on the list who has a better QB throwing him the ball is Davante Adams.


The rest if the list is straight though, except Julio would still be in my top 4.    Not his fault Matt Ryan blows in the red zone.

And Davante produced with Brett fucking Hundley last year , dude is underrated. Julio has had Ryan his whole career - and Julio also deserves some of the blame for his inability to score. He drops a lot of important passes.

Oct 11, 2018 0:02:40 GMT UT said:

Oct 10, 2018 22:51:26 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Deandre Hopkins is the best wide receiver in the NFL

I actually had him third - I don’t think he’s the best at all. Brown has that crown until someone emphatically takes it from him.

Fight me in real life bro

Oct 11, 2018 1:22:48 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Oct 11, 2018 0:02:40 GMT UT said:

I actually had him third - I don’t think he’s the best at all. Brown has that crown until someone emphatically takes it from him.

Fight me in real life bro

Lol. I’ll get right on that.

I had him #2 Shin, do you want to fight me as well?

Oct 11, 2018 1:54:09 GMT @admin said:

I had him #2 Shin, do you want to fight me as well?

I was only kidding but I still just don't get it, Hopkins is leaving all these j-brones in the dust statistically, we have hard data proving that he's the best in the NFL, if he played for the Cowboys or the Giants or some other team everybody would be on their knees sucking his dick, I'm just sick of Texans players not getting the respect they deserve.

Cooper Kupp deserves recognition:

30 Receptions
438 yards
5 TDs
14.6 YPR

All as a slot receiver.

He's not the deep threat of a lot of the guys listed, but he is a huge driver in one of the best offenses in football.

Oct 11, 2018 10:02:47 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Oct 11, 2018 1:54:09 GMT @admin said:

I had him #2 Shin, do you want to fight me as well?

I was only kidding but I still just don't get it, Hopkins is leaving all these j-brones in the dust statistically, we have hard data proving that he's the best in the NFL, if he played for the Cowboys or the Giants or some other team everybody would be on their knees sucking his dick, I'm just sick of Texans players not getting the respect they deserve.

He's not behind any of those J-Brones though , he's ahead literally only behind someone who's making a case to be the 2nd greatest WR ever in Antonio Brown. I didn't base my rankings just off the first five games of this season either - if that were the case Thielen and Kupp both would have cases to be in the #1 spot. The idea that getting ranked 2nd or 3rd in the entire NFL at a position chalk full of superstars isn't getting respect is a bit silly. 

And it has nothing to do with the market or where he plays in my case - I don't care about Dallas or the Giants. I've always rooted for the Texans to be good and I overrated Deshaun Watson in my quarterbacks list. 

Oct 11, 2018 13:55:11 GMT KJ said:

Cooper Kupp deserves recognition:

30 Receptions
438 yards
5 TDs
14.6 YPR

All as a slot receiver.

He's not the deep threat of a lot of the guys listed, but he is a huge driver in one of the best offenses in football.

I've been on the Kupp bandwagon since he was drafted last year , but I didn't rate guys based on only this year and I do think he is aided a TON by the team he plays on , the stars he's surrounded by and by probably the best offensive mind in football right now. Kupp is schemed to get a lot of space to work in - and he does great on it but he (to me) is a case of a guy I'd like to see play in Miami or something and see how he does. He'd still be good but I'm not sure he would be crushing it on the same level. 

It's the same reason I docked Hill a few spots. 

I am biased towards Hopkins because I've had him in my fantasy team but I am curious to know what the "hard data" is that proves he's better than Brown as Antonio beats him in counting stats every year.

2014 - 129/1698 vs 76/1210
2015 - 136/1834 vs 111/1521
2016 - 106/1284 vs 78/954
2017 - 101/1533 vs 96/1378

Oct 11, 2018 22:35:29 GMT @admin said:

I am biased towards Hopkins because I've had him in my fantasy team but I am curious to know what the "hard data" is that proves he's better than Brown as Antonio beats him in counting stats every year.

2014 - 129/1698 vs 76/1210
2015 - 136/1834 vs 111/1521
2016 - 106/1284 vs 78/954
2017 - 101/1533 vs 96/1378

2014 - Roethlisberger vs Fitzpatrick/Keenum/Mallet
2015 - Roethlisberger vs Hoyer/Yates/Mallet/Weeden
2016 - Roethlisberger vs Osweiler/Savage
2017 - Roethlisberger vs Watson/Savage/Yates

Brown's numbers are ridiculous. But put them into context, this is almost like an Emmitt Smith vs Barry Sanders situation here, people tell me that I'm crazy for thinking Emmitt is better than Barry despite having better career stats(and more rings) because Barry was the sole target of opposing defenses that played against him and supposedly he succeeded despite having a "trash" o-line/coaching staff compared to what Emmitt played with.

Well I'm pulling that card here For Hopkins vs Brown, it comes down to Brown playing with one of the top 3-4 quarterbacks in a system with other offensive weapons vs Hopkins playing in Bill O'Brien's broken offense that has worked for 6 games in the 5 years he's been here with every team knowing damn well that Hopkins is our ONLY weapon.

I don't know about 2nd best of all time but Brown's numbers speak for themselves, just like Hopkins numbers right now speak for themselves, he's out in front of the NFL now that he's got a real quarterback finally, he's going to finish out in front because he's been the best all around receiver in the NFL for a while now and everybody is finally going to see it this year. I've seen every game of Hopkins career and I just refuse to believe that there is a wide receiver in the NFL right now that is better than him, I'm going to defend my guy tooth and nail here because it's the damn truth!

Dude caught 96 passes for over 1,378 yards in just 15 games last year and 9 of those were with Savage and Yates, I believe neither guy is even in the NFL any more, I mean Brown only had like 5 more catches and just 155 more receiving yards, take some time to let that sink in for a second, there is no 3 B's here on this offense the past 3-4 years, just 1 Hopkins. Put Hopkins in Brown's shoes with that team and I think he eclipses Brown's numbers, put both guys with Rodgers or Brady and I think Hopkins leaves Brown in the dust. Skill vs Skill, man to man, Hopkins is better than Brown. Fight me bros!

No way in hell is Brown the 2nd best receiver of all-time. His stats are largely the result of playing in  the most pussy-assed pass-inflated era of all-time. I wouidn't take Brown over Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, or Calvin Johnson. I might not take him over Tim Brown or Andre Johnson.


Same reason I can't take Hopkins over Andre Johnson either.   Hopkins also has the benefit of playing in an extremely pass-inflated era.   He's going to have to do A LOT more before I consider putting him above Andre Johnson.

Might could get away with saying Hopkins is AS GOOD AS Brown, but Brown has been the best of the best in the last 5 years (actually getting MVP buzz before his injury last year), can't be better than the best. There's not a single attribute Hopkins has over Brown except height: hands, routes, awareness, elusiveness, speed, reads, Brown is top of the class in all of 'em, can be matched but not exceed. Bigger receivers being able to muscle a bit more is the only thing he lacks (but still manages to outfight plenty), but he makes up for it with said elusiveness and route running. Hopkins gets fed plenty, his QB's are no Ben, but he's not exactly working with Curtis Painter. 155 more yards in 5 catches is actually pretty impressive, that's 30 yards a catch. You can only speculate what Brown and Hopkins would have done given the similar opportunities, like I said, if you can produce with Landry Jones, you can produce anywhere, just need to get the ball in his general vicinity.

Hopkins can prove himself better over a couple years, but right now, Brown put his work to claim that title. He wasn't crowned overnight either.

Oct 13, 2018 1:23:41 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Oct 11, 2018 22:35:29 GMT @admin said:

I am biased towards Hopkins because I've had him in my fantasy team but I am curious to know what the "hard data" is that proves he's better than Brown as Antonio beats him in counting stats every year.

2014 - 129/1698 vs 76/1210
2015 - 136/1834 vs 111/1521
2016 - 106/1284 vs 78/954
2017 - 101/1533 vs 96/1378

2014 - Roethlisberger vs Fitzpatrick/Keenum/Mallet
2015 - Roethlisberger vs Hoyer/Yates/Mallet/Weeden
2016 - Roethlisberger vs Osweiler/Savage
2017 - Roethlisberger vs Watson/Savage/Yates

Brown's numbers are ridiculous. But put them into context, this is almost like an Emmitt Smith vs Barry Sanders situation here, people tell me that I'm crazy for thinking Emmitt is better than Barry despite having better career stats(and more rings) because Barry was the sole target of opposing defenses that played against him and supposedly he succeeded despite having a "trash" o-line/coaching staff compared to what Emmitt played with.

Well I'm pulling that card here For Hopkins vs Brown, it comes down to Brown playing with one of the top 3-4 quarterbacks in a system with other offensive weapons vs Hopkins playing in Bill O'Brien's broken offense that has worked for 6 games in the 5 years he's been here with every team knowing damn well that Hopkins is our ONLY weapon.

I don't know about 2nd best of all time but Brown's numbers speak for themselves, just like Hopkins numbers right now speak for themselves, he's out in front of the NFL now that he's got a real quarterback finally, he's going to finish out in front because he's been the best all around receiver in the NFL for a while now and everybody is finally going to see it this year. I've seen every game of Hopkins career and I just refuse to believe that there is a wide receiver in the NFL right now that is better than him, I'm going to defend my guy tooth and nail here because it's the damn truth!

Dude caught 96 passes for over 1,378 yards in just 15 games last year and 9 of those were with Savage and Yates, I believe neither guy is even in the NFL any more, I mean Brown only had like 5 more catches and just 155 more receiving yards, take some time to let that sink in for a second, there is no 3 B's here on this offense the past 3-4 years, just 1 Hopkins. Put Hopkins in Brown's shoes with that team and I think he eclipses Brown's numbers, put both guys with Rodgers or Brady and I think Hopkins leaves Brown in the dust. Skill vs Skill, man to man, Hopkins is better than Brown. Fight me bros!

Jerry Rice played most of his career with two Hall of Fame quarterbacks , so are we going to start going revisionist on him now as well? Receivers still have to produce and get open regardless of their quarterback and one could argue the best receivers make their quarterbacks better. 

And skill to skill just isn't true , Rags already went over it but Antonio Brown is as polished of a receiver as you are going to find. He's one of the best route runners you'll ever see and that is probably about the most important attribute of playing receiver - the guy is incredible. 

Soon if I have time I'd love to go back and look at Browns numbers with the TERRIBLE Landry Jones on a per game basis and compare. I'd also love to compare Bens numbers without Brown to see where he took his career. Not this morning though. 

Oct 13, 2018 3:26:37 GMT thereallt said:

No way in hell is Brown the 2nd best receiver of all-time. His stats are largely the result of playing in  the most pussy-assed pass-inflated era of all-time. I wouidn't take Brown over Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, or Calvin Johnson. I might not take him over Tim Brown or Andre Johnson.


Same reason I can't take Hopkins over Andre Johnson either.   Hopkins also has the benefit of playing in an extremely pass-inflated era.   He's going to have to do A LOT more before I consider putting him above Andre Johnson.

Half of those guys shared the same era. :lol: 

I said he's making a case to be and he is , there isn't a guy on that list who is an all around better receiver than Brown - they all got the size but Browns total package aside from that - along with the sustained productivity are making a case for him. 

1- Rice
2- Moss
3- AB

Facts.

Oct 13, 2018 21:53:26 GMT KING KID said:

1- Rice
2- Moss
3- AB

Facts.

Sorry I just don't see how AB is better than Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, or Calvin Johnson.     Fitz and Megatron both were more productive their first  8 years in practically every stat and TO beats him out in yards per catch and touchdowns.  

Honestly I don't think he's better than Andre Johnson either.   I'm not sure I would take him over Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce or Tory Holt.      This is some serious recency bias at work here.

Andre Johnson is not only the greatest receiver of all time but the greatest player in NFL history period. Anybody who doesn't like that opinion can fight me irl bro

Oct 14, 2018 0:25:03 GMT thereallt said:

Oct 13, 2018 21:53:26 GMT KING KID said:

1- Rice
2- Moss
3- AB

Facts.

Sorry I just don't see how AB is better than Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, or Calvin Johnson.     Fitz and Megatron both were more productive their first  8 years in practically every stat and TO beats him out in yards per catch and touchdowns.  

Honestly I don't think he's better than Andre Johnson either.   I'm not sure I would take him over Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce or Tory Holt.      This is some serious recency bias at work here.

In my opinion.

Oct 14, 2018 0:25:03 GMT thereallt said:

Oct 13, 2018 21:53:26 GMT KING KID said:

1- Rice
2- Moss
3- AB

Facts.

Sorry I just don't see how AB is better than Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, or Calvin Johnson.     Fitz and Megatron both were more productive their first  8 years in practically every stat and TO beats him out in yards per catch and touchdowns.  

Honestly I don't think he's better than Andre Johnson either.   I'm not sure I would take him over Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce or Tory Holt.      This is some serious recency bias at work here.

And you have some reverse recency bias in general , just because something is happening recently doesn't mean it's not as valuable. Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt? Are you fucking kidding me? Why not just thought Az-Zahir in there too and make it the whole greatest show on turf. 

He has considerably more YPG than all of those guys you mentioned aside from Megatron , his touchdowns don't stack up but he has a few years left in the game and I think provided if he stays healthy he is going to get up there a little bit. I would like to deep dive more but it's Sunday and football is going to be on but I still don't know what any of those guys do better , aside from being taller redzone targets than Brown does. Fitzgerald is the closest you have in route running and hands - he has the best case but he's better in every facet of the game than TO aside from being taller. TO was a good route runner but Brown is great and TO had a history of drops and Brown simply doesn't. 

Isaac Bruce might have been a stretch, but you compare Tory Holt's first 8 years with AB's' and Holt beats him out in every stat. Holt was SCARY in his prime, people done forgot. Not to mention Holt had to play against defenders that were actually allowed to do their jobs.

You put a prime TO and a prime Brown on the same team and TO would get the double coverage every time. Simple as that. TO was a far more dangerous receiver...not to mention making his bones once again in an era when defense was actually allowed.

Oct 14, 2018 0:54:22 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Andre Johnson is not only the greatest receiver of all time but the greatest player in NFL history period. Anybody who doesn't like that opinion can fight me irl bro

I wouldn't got that far, but I do think he doesn't get nearly enough respect.

Oct 14, 2018 16:12:08 GMT thereallt said:

Oct 14, 2018 0:54:22 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Andre Johnson is not only the greatest receiver of all time but the greatest player in NFL history period. Anybody who doesn't like that opinion can fight me irl bro

I wouldn't got that far, but I do think he doesn't get nearly enough respect.

For the 26-27 year window that I've been watching the game and seeing his career unfold from draft to retirement he's the best I ever seen. Definitely gets nowhere near the love he deserves when you think about the team he played for, which got little to no TV coverage outside of Houston from 2002 to probably 2010-2011, so the time when he was at his apex nobody seen him play. Go back and see some of those 2003-2009 Texans games and see how we had NOBODY but Andre, how teams would gameplan to shut him down, attempt to knock him out of the game, and how he would still dominate. He was a fucking force of nature, it's really telling that Wayne and Harrison only have a few more career yards than him and they played their careers with one of the top 3 QB's that ever played the game. For what Andre had to play with and how he played, the heart he played with, the toughness that he played with, what he did for establishing a new team in the NFL, to me he is the GOAT, if he's not first ballot HOF I'm rioting in Canton.

Oct 14, 2018 16:22:40 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Oct 14, 2018 16:12:08 GMT thereallt said:

I wouldn't got that far, but I do think he doesn't get nearly enough respect.

For the 26-27 year window that I've been watching the game and seeing his career unfold from draft to retirement he's the best I ever seen. Definitely gets nowhere near the love he deserves when you think about the team he played for, which got little to no TV coverage outside of Houston from 2002 to probably 2010-2011, so the time when he was at his apex nobody seen him play. Go back and see some of those 2002-2009 Texans games and see how we had NOBODY but Andre, how teams would gameplan to shut him down, attempt to knock him out of the game, and how he would still dominate. He was a fucking force of nature, it's really telling that Wayne and Harrison only have a few more career yards than him and they played their careers with one of the top 3 QB's that ever played the game. For what Andre had to play with and how he played, the heart he played with, the toughness that he played with, what he did for establishing a new team in the NFL, to me he is the GOAT, if he's not first ballot HOF I'm rioting in Canton.

Believe me I get it.  I feel the same way about Lawrence Taylor, except he actually got the respect he deserves.    Andre sadly still does not.

Oct 14, 2018 16:11:03 GMT thereallt said:

Isaac Bruce might have been a stretch, but you compare Tory Holt's first 8 years with AB's' and Holt beats him out in every stat. Holt was SCARY in his prime, people done forgot. Not to mention Holt had to play against defenders that were actually allowed to do their jobs.

You put a prime TO and a prime Brown on the same team and TO would get the double coverage every time. Simple as that. TO was a far more dangerous receiver...not to mention making his bones once again in an era when defense was actually allowed.

Torry Holt was also playing in one of the greatest offenses of all time , and the greatest show on turf was a revelation at the time. You say a time that the defense was allowed to do their job but that offense and even Hakim were clowning people up and down the field. You could make the argument that Holt was the second or even third option on that offense and never ... NEVER seen the coverage that Brown see's on a week to week basis. 

As for the numbers - I went by starts since Brown didn't start his rookie year and Torry Holt fell off on the end. 

Antonio Brown: 108 Yards per start
Torry Holt: 84 Yards per Start 

Antonio Brown: .69 Touchdowns per start 
Torry Holt: .53 Touchdowns per start 

Antonio Brown: 8 Catches per start 
Torry Holt: 6 Catches per start 

So no , Holts averages on a per game , per start basis aren't anywhere nears Browns production. I might do the same with TO later out of curiousity but on the surface I'd take Brown over Owens 10/10 times. Faster , better route runner , better with the ball in his hands , better hands - just shorter.

better with the ball in his hands

My ass he is.



And that was on  one of the very best corners to ever draw breath.