Is it ableist to give out perfect attendance awards? I'd read a post recently that stated giving out perfect attendance awards is discriminatory against people with disabilities and mental illness. part of me was emotionally triggered at first because it was such a new concept. it feels like perfect attendance awards have been an institution and a goal since school and for most workplaces. But then, after putting in some thought it does make sense in a lot of situations that some people would not be able to get perfect attendance awards no matter their of effort. And that it would be an award ability not of merit.

LMAO.

You got emotionally triggered by a fucking perfect attendance award?

Let me ask you a question. Who is that guy on your AV?

Well whoever it is, take it off and replace it with a fucking straw because you need to suck it up and man up if shit like that is triggering you in life.

Dec 7, 2019 15:52:30 GMT KING KID said:

LMAO.

You got emotionally triggered by a fucking perfect attendance award?

Let me ask you a question. Who is that guy on your AV?

Well whoever it is, take it off and replace it with a fucking straw because you need to suck it up and man up if shit like that is triggering you in life.

LMAO

You got emotionally triggered by the notion I typed triggered to the point you misunderstood my reaction was to the fact of people saying that perfect attendance awards should go away.

Let me ask you a question. Who is that in your AV? Well whoever it is replace it with a bag of dicks because you need to eat a bag of dicks and man up if shit like this is triggering your life.


It's Easy-E. Do you have anything to contribute the conversation or want to contribute to the conversation or do you just want to try to sling insults with me?

I am not triggered at all to be honest. I thought you thought the perfect attendance award was upsetting.

KING KID ... you realize you misread his post, right?

It's probably only a matter of time before some 400lb pot of entitled lard sues the IOC for discrimination against their "MAH GENETICS!!1!"
Maybe we will get competition eating at the Olympics soon.

Dec 7, 2019 19:58:06 GMT KJ said:

KING KID ... you realize you misread his post, right?

Oh. 

Now I’m confused. So what are we talking about? 

Dec 8, 2019 0:48:24 GMT KING KID said:

Dec 7, 2019 19:58:06 GMT KJ said:

KING KID ... you realize you misread his post, right?

Oh. 

Now I’m confused. So what are we talking about? 

He was saying that he’s surprised that perfect attendance isn’t celebrated anymore for X reasons, and was seeking thoughts from the board on this.

Here is the tweet I first saw someone post on FB.

I thought, What some bull shit. But then I started agreeing.

Dec 8, 2019 21:54:30 GMT theend said:

Here is the tweet I first saw someone post on FB.

I thought, What some bull shit. But then I started agreeing.

Because I am a middle aged white man and everything is already my fault. Everything about her profile photo screams professional whiner. [/you too]

The Olympics, the NFL, WTP... All ableist.
These people just want to devalue all human achievement until it falls to a level where they fit in and can justify their existence while offering nothing of the remotist value.

Earth was a mistake.

You guys are probably giving this more thought that ‘ thal ‘ ever did.

However, once upon a time if you couldn’t do something, you’d mock it relentlessly with your equally angry, boring friends. Now, it seems, you complain, act offended and demand it removed from existence because fuck others and their hard work.

What is ableist?

Dec 9, 2019 12:50:12 GMT 🤯 said:

What is ableist?

Discrimination against Cain.

One of the main reasons I posted this here- is that I often get the impression that half the board is suffering from sort of mental illness and I think a couple are disabled.

At my last job we were allowed to take 6 six days per year that we got paid for. I made sure to take them all by the end of the year even if I wasn't sick. Who cares about perfect attendance. If you need q day you need a day.

They should still give out awards, but just maybe don't be so upset if you don't get one like that thal lady.

My last job had a point system in place for their attendance. You were fired @ 9, which other than stealing was the only way they really let people go. One thing I noticed is there was no real incentive to have perfect attendance. The way it worked was after 6 months (or a year I'm not sure of the specifics) the occurrence falls off. But if you have 0 points you don't go into the negatives. That would be one way to incentivize have a perfect record because then you could add an extra day or two to work with as far as time off was concerned. So if anything it worked in favor of those who called off often because then they received that dopamine rush of seeing a point fall off their record. Talk about punishing those of us who followed the rules...

I skimmed the twitter thread... ugh wish I hadn't. The attendance policy is fine, it prepares you for what's expected of you in real life. Call in sick. Just pick your battles knowing you may need them at a later date so decide if that "mental health day" (such a cringe term) was wasted on nothing. Personally I'd save it for shitty frozen rainish weather, but that's just me. <_<

I feel like there are a few things going on here to unpack.

Firstly, ableism is a thing. If a city decides to get rid of some car spaces in favor of bike racks to reduce air pollution/global warming, that's all well and good except that you're ignoring those who, due to paralysis or chronic fatigue syndrome or inner ear balance issues, simply cannot ride a bike there even if they wanted to. Or passing over someone for a promotion because he stutters even though his job does not involve client relations. Even asking someone in a wheelchair if they want a push across the street might be ableist because you're sort of assuming they can't do it on their own -- if they wante help they'd ask, right? At least leave them their pride!

But ableist as a word is kinda like when Trump first discovered the term 'fake news;' it's like a four year old who learned a new word. This is ableist. This is ableist. Peanut butter is ableist. Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer is ableist (sidenote: decent argument to be made for that). EVERYTHING IS ABLEIST.

But but so what if someone can get a perfect attendance record while another kid who, unfortunately, has to miss a day of class every now and again for health related doctor visits? As long as that fact by itself doesn't adversely affect their grades, that's life. I don't have the height or the hand-eye coordination to be a basketball superstar, Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps has better lung capacity than I do, the little boy who caught pnuemonia won't get the been-here-every-day award this year, it is what it is.

But but but that Twitter post isn't quite about ableism as much as it is a critique of indoctrination into late stage capitalism or whatever it is they're calling it these days. Like that tweet said, you're holding up never missing a day of school (or later in life, work) as a virtue. Tired from studying? Go to school. Great-grandma's funeral is on a Thursday? They shoulda scheduled it for Saturday, go to school. Got the flu? Here's some pills, go back to crunching numbers on the balance sheet school. Hit by a car and broke your leg? We'll put it in a cast, no excuse to miss a day of sorting widgets on the assembly line school. And so why? Why reward the Puritan ideal of suffering when you don't have to? Why sacrifice my health for a faceless corporation who would just as well cut me to the curb if the numbers say they could make two dollars out of it?

TL;DR: Perfect attendance is not ableist. It might, though, teach kids that working through sickness or injury will be rewarded down the line and that might be a problem.

Oh fuck here comes Michinokudriver dropping the wisdom bombs.

Still love the veiled shot of theend calling us mostly disabled or retarded on some level. Bro knows how to stick the flathead screwdriver right between the intercostals.

Arent both C and Mike C somewhat disabled? Or maybe it is just C and he is so vocal. I feel like when depression/anxiety conversations come around half the board has had some issues. Similar with ADHD. On those maybe out of proportion misconceptions is what I figured people would relate to.

Dec 10, 2019 12:43:07 GMT theend said:

Arent both C and Mike C somewhat disabled? Or maybe it is just C and he is so vocal. I feel like when depression/anxiety conversations come around half the board has had some issues. Similar with ADHD. On those maybe out of proportion misconceptions is what I figured people would relate to.

Are depression, anxiety, and ADHD really disabilities though?

At least in Michinokudriver's example, I'm having a hard time reconciling how bike lanes would prevent someone with ADHD from getting around.

Is ableism all-inclusive, like not just anti physical handicaps? If so, to what extent does it go? Seasonal Affective Disorder, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Restless Legs?

Dec 10, 2019 14:28:02 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 10, 2019 12:43:07 GMT theend said:

Arent both C and Mike C somewhat disabled? Or maybe it is just C and he is so vocal. I feel like when depression/anxiety conversations come around half the board has had some issues. Similar with ADHD. On those maybe out of proportion misconceptions is what I figured people would relate to.

Are depression, anxiety, and ADHD really disabilities though?

At least in Michinokudriver 's example, I'm having a hard time reconciling how bike lanes would prevent someone with ADHD from getting around.

Is ableism all-inclusive, like not just anti physical handicaps? If so, to what extent does it go? Seasonal Affective Disorder, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Restless Legs?

Well, it did say "mental health day" and I think there is something fair to say about some people with depression issues would have days where they would not be able to function at a job.

Some of the articles I have read consider the fairness of having perfect attendance awards and mental health acceptance.  If an employer is going to offer incentive or penalty based on something that does not correlate with the perception of mental health there is an a conflict. 


If mental health acceptance means to accept that some people have conditions where they may not be able to work in the office today due to mental illness, a perfect attendance incentive of $500 per year is not showing consideration to the mentally ill.  Neither is firing someone who can not make it through a 30 or 90 day training period.  That would make someone with those issues afraid to enter the workforce.  Which is the opposite of accepting mental illness.  

In sincerity, I believe, in the future, more employers will likely have to consider aspects like that.  

To answer you question on what extent does it go?  I don't know.  Even with physical handicaps I know it can be challenging where to draw the line.  Ableism as hypothetical I am sure can cover everything.  In reality it will likely come down to the litigious nature of the world and the disability civil rights groups like ADAPT try to press the issue.


Footnote on ADAPT.  I admire them as a group.  They seem to do what PETA and Black Lives Matter and such do with protest and civil disobedience but with more effectiveness.  Learning about ADAPT actually raised my respect for those approaches.  More on what woke me up to them here.

video.vice.com/en_us/video/fight-electric-shock-conditioning-people-with-disabilities-adapt/5beaf67dbe407744597b2e8e

video.vice.com/en_us/video/fight-electric-shock-conditioning-people-with-disabilities-adapt/5beaf67dbe407744597b2e8e

I have noted before that I volunteer at an organization called the Brigade. It's a 22 week program that builds leaders for boys and girls 5th grade and up. Currently, I am working with 9th-grade boys and girls. We meet every Wednesday and I take attendance. Perfect attendance is awarded at the end of each year and it is part of what is looked at for scholarships that are awarded on graduation. To be fair and honest. I don't know how much of a factor attendance comes into play unless the kid is chronically absent. We do make some exceptions for kids who only miss a couple of times a year.

There is a difference if a kid has another school activity, is missing due to parents saying the kid needs to catch up on homework and one time the kid couldn't make it due to being sick.

As my recent management training has taught me, workplaces are more and more sensitive to these type of things. If I had an employee who was habitually late, I was told I should approach by finding out what the situation is that lead to them being late and possibly getting them a bus pass or something. I am sure if someone who had absenteeism due to mental illness, I would have to handle it with HR. Some employers aren't even on that level yet. That is also why I would believe that possibly in the future we could see perfect attendance awards going away as well.

It does seem like perfect attendance awards may have been a great thing in the industrial workforce and as we move more and more into a technology workforce it may change. Like how the math changed from rote memory training to understanding how the numbers work.

I almost lost 2 long term jobs because of my mental health and also because I was a single mom whose kid got sick when she was young. At job#1 we did get 6 sick days a year but it was only for you and not your child. I don't know if any of you have children but they go to school or daycare and they are ALWAYS sick. During this time I was also grappling with my mental health (anxiety & depression). Because I missed so much time, I was written up, demoted, etc. This added to my stress/depression. Job #2 was a mom and pop shop with no sick days so if I missed a day I did not get paid. I was still a single mom and I was still grappling with my mental health. Again I was penalized, yelled at, etc. I had a co-worker another woman get livid with me because I missed so much time and it put the load of her. I understand. It wasn't fair to her, but I wasn't doing it on purpose. Once my meds and therapy started to do their thing, that's all I did. Work. I still do. My daughter was old enough to stay home, so I would only miss if I absolutely had to. I had perfect attendance some years, but did I get anything for it? Sure...weight gain, stress, high blood pressure, etc. One of my current co-workers was 'missing too much time' and was removed from a permanent position to a temp position. She lost her benefits, sick days, etc. She has 3 germ factories at home.

I find most companies tell you they support workers with medical issues and want you to stay home if you are sick, but do nothing to back it up. Hence why you have the plague spread around my new open concept office like wild fire.

I called in to my current workplace years ago because I severely cut my foot and had to be on crutches.

I called in once it had been sewn up etc..not even out of the hospital

First question:
“How long until you think you’ll be back?

——-

My brother had perfect attendance at school once and got an iPod for it.

System what's wrong with them asking how long so they can plan for your absence?

Dec 11, 2019 18:42:25 GMT nazzer said:

System what's wrong with them asking how long so they can plan for your absence?

Probably nothing, but probably would've been nice if first question was "are you OK?"

Why I'm grateful to be at a job that has an automated system for calling off. Hated that last minute guilt trip managers tried to do at a previous job.

Fuck you Dante I just lost my virginity I ain't coming in to stock lettuce.

I must be a boomer.
Hardly ever called in sick, maybe 4 days in 10 years.

Dec 12, 2019 0:38:14 GMT iNCY said:

I must be a boomer.
Hardly ever called in sick, maybe 4 days in 10 years.

ok boomer