Surprised no thread has been made....I know baseball is sorta unpopular here but the 2 of the last 3 WS winners and the last 3 AL representatives have been busted in the Astros and Red Sox and now both AJ Hinch AND Alex Cora(Who is a scumbag, having done this in both organizations) and Astros GM Jeff Lethow have all been fired and both the Astros duo are suspended for a year with Cora's suspension looming very much so.

How do you feel about someone like Mike Fiers spilling the beans, knowing he sat back reaped the benefits and then when now an ex member of the team began to speak up on it? So many guys lost millions of dollars, possible careers got ruined over this and it's a damn shame how these guys seriously went out of their way to do this. It taints players who benefitted from this and I think this will be an asterisk on Justin Verlander's potential HOF career IMHO. Makes me worried about a Gerrit Cole who benefitted off of this and like Verlander, put up ridiculous highs after coming to the Astros off of a trade. 

Trevor Bauer who spoke up about how Houston is doctoring the ball with spin rates that are through the roof caught a lot of flack from Bregman and others.....now whom seems very much validated with the Astros at least cheating to a certain extent. 

It is almost unprecedented that there are now 2 MLB teams with managerial openers less than a month away from spring training but here is where we stand....

Blindy you just read my mind. I was just about to write about this. Maybe not as in depth as you but great thread.

The Astros and Red Sox organizations SHOULD have their championships taken from them. Or put a big fat asterisk next to it so it stays there for all of sports eternity. The fact that Alex Cora was a part of BOTH teams cheating scandals cracks me up. Another hero of the people comes out a fucking liar and cheater. Love it!

These cheaters stole some epic showdowns with the Yankees and Dodgers.

Also Blindy, Bauer feasted on Twitter about this. He is enjoying watching this unfold as are many other baseball players who feel they have been screwed because of these cheaters.

There was a defense by a player, forget who, but they said that people on steroids made the HOF and this doesn’t deserve the same amount of heat. Actually, it does. It’s cheating both ways.

Red Sox to Alex Cora: "Bye, Felicia."

American sports have got to get over this stuff honestly. Obviously this sort of recording/relaying is unsportsmanlike, but teams are always going to try and get an advantage. How about don't show everyone what you're going to do?

Jan 15, 2020 1:47:48 GMT @admin said:

American sports have got to get over this stuff honestly. Obviously this sort of recording/relaying is unsportsmanlike, but teams are always going to try and get an advantage. How about don't show everyone what you're going to do?

It's not just unsportsmanlike, it's a farce upon the paying fan's dollar having to watch tainted games and enough of this being done ruins the game from an attendance standpoint where fans forking over hard earned money will feel cheated watching a game that has been tainted. This becomes a serious black eye for the sport like how steroid use became where players had to shorten their lifespans to get that edge whether it's taking it to return from injury sooner or to buff themselves up to meet the HR fetish that MLB fans had in the late 90's and teams would find players who'd take foreign supplements to get that advantage. 

They can opt to go for an advantage that's legal but most of this stuff has been illegal for a long while. Having stooges hide in a ballpark snapping pitch by pitch is absolute garbage. Tyler Glasnow of TB or Yu Darvish of LAD get humilated in a win or go home against the Astros and take career hits for shenanigans done on the Astros side. It's brutal. 

Jan 15, 2020 0:59:18 GMT KING KID said:

Blindy you just read my mind. I was just about to write about this. Maybe not as in depth as you but great thread.

The Astros and Red Sox organizations SHOULD have their championships taken from them. Or put a big fat asterisk next to it so it stays there for all of sports eternity. The fact that Alex Cora was a part of BOTH teams cheating scandals cracks me up. Another hero of the people comes out a fucking liar and cheater. Love it!

These cheaters stole some epic showdowns with the Yankees and Dodgers.

I excluded the bold because the always bitter Logan "I HAD MORE HOMERS THAN GARY SANCHEZ WHY WAS HE PICKED FOR THE DERBY!" Morrison has strongly said he knows the Yanks and Dodgers also cheated so who knows if he's full of shit or not. 

Astros lost 2 valuable draft picks in the next draft too which is worth pointing out. 

I didn't even touch on the elephant in the room of Astro/Red Sox players getting this illegal leg up and in turn getting stat advantage. Jose Altuve won the 2017 AL MVP over Aaron Judge, yes because the former is very talented but also because (For now) had the advantage of illegal scheming by his team that ended up costing Judge not just the award but financial gain of nearly 2 million. Add the all star appearances both sides had that took other players from other squads financial gain and it's a gigantic catastrophe that may lead to suing by said players over lost wages.

Jan 15, 2020 1:47:48 GMT @admin said:

American sports have got to get over this stuff honestly. Obviously this sort of recording/relaying is unsportsmanlike, but teams are always going to try and get an advantage. How about don't show everyone what you're going to do?

When are soccer plays going to stop acting like they got shotgun blasted everytime someone makes inadvertent contact with their body? 

Jan 15, 2020 2:23:12 GMT Blindy said:

I didn't even touch on the elephant in the room of Astro/Red Sox players getting this illegal leg up and in turn getting stat advantage. Jose Altuve won the 2017 AL MVP over Aaron Judge, yes because the former is very talented but also because (For now) had the advantage of illegal scheming by his team that ended up costing Judge not just the award but financial gain of nearly 2 million. Add the all star appearances both sides had that took other players from other squads financial gain and it's a gigantic catastrophe that may lead to suing by said players over lost wages.

...no it won’t.

Jan 16, 2020 1:02:15 GMT mikec said:

Jan 15, 2020 2:23:12 GMT Blindy said:

I didn't even touch on the elephant in the room of Astro/Red Sox players getting this illegal leg up and in turn getting stat advantage. Jose Altuve won the 2017 AL MVP over Aaron Judge, yes because the former is very talented but also because (For now) had the advantage of illegal scheming by his team that ended up costing Judge not just the award but financial gain of nearly 2 million. Add the all star appearances both sides had that took other players from other squads financial gain and it's a gigantic catastrophe that may lead to suing by said players over lost wages.

...no it won’t.

When players have lost money over this, it sure will. Minor leaguers are fighting for lost wages that has serious merit. Players are paid extra based off of incentives, ASG appearances, awards. You can't tell me that Judge who came 2nd in the AL voting and lost to a player benefiting off of illegal use of sounds is happy about losing out on nearly 2 millions when he at the time was making the standard 600K minimum salary as a new player to the MLB. 

These allegations have been heard for almost 3 years but MLB has cleaned the Astros of any wrong doing up until recently, this could have been prevented sooner but MLB didn't act quicker. This will be seeked into court IMHO. 

It's 22 minutes long and a bit outdated(This was made prior to the suspensions/firings) but besides that this is an excellent video that describes why this is terrible what the Astros did(This doesn't touch upon the Red Sox shenanigans). Good video for anyone unsure why this is such a big deal

Jan 16, 2020 1:16:00 GMT Blindy said:

Jan 16, 2020 1:02:15 GMT mikec said:

...no it won’t.

When players have lost money over this, it sure will. Minor leaguers are fighting for lost wages that has serious merit. Players are paid extra based off of incentives, ASG appearances, awards. You can't tell me that Judge who came 2nd in the AL voting and lost to a player benefiting off of illegal use of sounds is happy about losing out on nearly 2 millions when he at the time was making the standard 600K minimum salary as a new player to the MLB. 

These allegations have been heard for almost 3 years but MLB has cleaned the Astros of any wrong doing up until recently, this could have been prevented sooner but MLB didn't act quicker. This will be seeked into court IMHO. 

MLBPA won’t let them sue and it’ll be over. And even if the MLBPA wouldn’t stop it, the ridiculous cost of that litigation would.

You’re arguing as if this is an isolated thing with no historical precedent, completely ignoring the PED era where Bonds surely cost someone else money in MVP incentives or Clemens held down a Minor League pitcher for a year, etc.

Add a 3rd managerial spot to the fold as we are in the middle of January: Ex Royals great Carlos Beltran has parted ways with the Mets. Didn't even get a chance to manage a spring training game. 

Tim & Sid, a popular sports show in Canada, and fine investigative reporters at that, pieced together the events involving Jose Altuve.

When Altuve hit the walk off winner in the ALCS, he begged his teammates not to rip his shirt.
And during the celebrations, as captured in a fan's video, when he was handed the champions t-shirt, he ran into the clubhouse, so he could take the jersey off, and put the tee on.
Ken Rosenthal in the postgame interview asked "Why did you not want your teammates to rip your shirt off?" And Altuve gave sort of a nervous chuckle.

I think he had a wearable device taped in his jersey. What do you think of this?

How would this affect the pitchers like Verlander and Cole? From ball altering or this video garbage can scandal?

Verlander has always been a beast. Whether with the Tigers or Astros.

I give plenty of kudos to Fiers. I don't understand any negativity going his way. He is essentially a whistleblower. And, non sports whistleblowers have always been praised. This is no different.

It is unfortunate for Beltran to be let go and get any blame. Based on what we know (the facts) there is no wrongdoing by Beltran as of now.

This was a management or organization decision to cheat. That is why the coaches, GM, and the team got punished. Doesn't matter if Beltran is a veteran or rookie. Players have no say in higher up organizational decisions. Players don't have that power.

Jan 17, 2020 16:23:05 GMT Zappy said:

How would this affect the pitchers like Verlander and Cole? From ball altering or this video garbage can scandal?

Verlander has always been a beast. Whether with the Tigers or Astros.

I give plenty of kudos to Fiers. I don't understand any negativity going his way. He is essentially a whistleblower. And, non sports whistleblowers have always been praised. This is no different.

It is unfortunate for Beltran to be let go and get any blame. Based on what we know (the facts) there is no wrongdoing by Beltran as of now.

This was a management or organization decision to cheat. That is why the coaches, GM, and the team got punished. Doesn't matter if Beltran is a veteran or rookie. Players have no say in higher up organizational decisions. Players don't have that power.

Supposedly there is not much proof either the coach or GM started the cheating, it was almost entirely a player run thing...

Jan 17, 2020 19:20:52 GMT mikec said:

Jan 17, 2020 16:23:05 GMT Zappy said:

How would this affect the pitchers like Verlander and Cole? From ball altering or this video garbage can scandal?

Verlander has always been a beast. Whether with the Tigers or Astros.

I give plenty of kudos to Fiers. I don't understand any negativity going his way. He is essentially a whistleblower. And, non sports whistleblowers have always been praised. This is no different.

It is unfortunate for Beltran to be let go and get any blame. Based on what we know (the facts) there is no wrongdoing by Beltran as of now.

This was a management or organization decision to cheat. That is why the coaches, GM, and the team got punished. Doesn't matter if Beltran is a veteran or rookie. Players have no say in higher up organizational decisions. Players don't have that power.

Supposedly there is not much proof either the coach or GM started the cheating, it was almost entirely a player run thing...

A player run thing only?  I haven't heard anything about that.  Obviously they were apart of it, but we do not know who the mastermind is.  So, at the end of the day it falls on the managers, the bosses, the guys in charge who make the decisions.  All I know is that the head coach and GM were penalized while Beltran got mentioned for a reason that we do not know, but was not disciplined.  Wouldn't Hinch wonder at some point what all the banging is in the hallway dugout?

Yeah , I think everyone knows Hinch knew what was going on, just he wasn’t the one he started it nor was the GM, it was Cora and the players. I’ve read at least a few accounts that Hinch voiced his disapproval of it in more than one way.

MLB took it out on who it could, they said there were too many players involved to penalize them all but that Beltran and Cora created the strategy.

Here’s the Times write up that includes these details - www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/sports/baseball/astros-cheating.html

Jan 16, 2020 2:56:38 GMT mikec said:

Jan 16, 2020 1:16:00 GMT Blindy said:

When players have lost money over this, it sure will. Minor leaguers are fighting for lost wages that has serious merit. Players are paid extra based off of incentives, ASG appearances, awards. You can't tell me that Judge who came 2nd in the AL voting and lost to a player benefiting off of illegal use of sounds is happy about losing out on nearly 2 millions when he at the time was making the standard 600K minimum salary as a new player to the MLB. 

These allegations have been heard for almost 3 years but MLB has cleaned the Astros of any wrong doing up until recently, this could have been prevented sooner but MLB didn't act quicker. This will be seeked into court IMHO. 

MLBPA won’t let them sue and it’ll be over. And even if the MLBPA wouldn’t stop it, the ridiculous cost of that litigation would.

You’re arguing as if this is an isolated thing with no historical precedent, completely ignoring the PED era where Bonds surely cost someone else money in MVP incentives or Clemens held down a Minor League pitcher for a year, etc.

www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28673134/citing-unfair-practices-former-blue-jays-reliever-mike-bolsinger-elects-sue-sign-stealing-astros



1000% has a case here and this will be settled out of court to defuse the black eye this could be but still. 

I said the Red Sox and Yankees wouldn’t sue over lost World Series, ASG bonuses, or awards, I didn’t say somebody with no case that is out of the league wouldn’t try.

Looking at the situation, and the outrage, why not just handle it the way baseball handled Pete Rose and the 1919 White Sox, and just ban players from baseball?

Houston's owner sounded so out of touch at that clown show disgusted as a press conference.

Feb 13, 2020 23:23:27 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Looking at the situation, and the outrage, why not just handle it the way baseball handled Pete Rose and the 1919 White Sox, and just ban players from baseball?

Agreed.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Carlos Beltran just lost any shot of ever making the Hall of Fame after this and he was a legit possibility for it.

Shame. Yankees/Dodgers would've been a dope World Series. 

Following up on Leper Messiah, post, this was former Yankee David Wells said about the situation.


“What is he smoking ” Wells tweeted Thursday night. “It impacted the game BIG-TIME. That’s not the way to win a Division or a Championship. The Players should be Banned for life like Pete Rose. If they got immunity then Pete Rose and the Black Sox should too. I think the commissioner should rethink his (decision).”


I honestly agree. They'll never do it, though but they absolutely should.

I don’t follow baseball, but seriously, FUCK absolutely every bag of shit involved. Did nothing but prevent themselves from being regarded as legitimate champions. Never be anything but an asterisk.

Them actually suggesting world class athletes that are trained to make split second decisions actually knowing what’s coming their way isn’t an advantage is just cowardly bullshit. You got caught, own it, not like they’re striking the wins from the record like they should.

Feb 13, 2020 23:23:27 GMT Leper Messiah said:

Looking at the situation, and the outrage, why not just handle it the way baseball handled Pete Rose and the 1919 White Sox, and just ban players from baseball?

They learned as much as they did by offering immunity from punishment to players is my guess.

Rob Manford is more stupid than Houston's owner. Calling a title a piece of metal is so out of touch.

I give plenty of kudos to Fiers. I don't understand any negativity going his way. He is essentially a whistleblower. And, non sports whistleblowers have always been praised. This is no different.

I couldn't disagree more. It's easy to "do the right thing" after you already have a WS rings, have already been paid your bonuses and are never going to suffer any consequences for the malfeasance YOU ACTIVELY TOOK PART IN!!


I would have respected Fiers if he would have come forward during the season. As is he gets NO props from me. The correct analogy for Fiers is not "whistleblower" The correct analogy is "criminal informant" Good luck getting any teammates to ever trust you again,

A bit of a side question. How would you propose baseball successfully move forward in a technological world? In soccer they now have goal line technology to determine if the ball crossed the goal line to prevent referee fuck up. In hockey we have video review. I think in football the quarterbacks have headsets so the coaches can talk to them to tell them what to do.

Is there an acceptable use of tech in baseball? Or do you expect the game to remain "pure" ?