I still can't see it on my laptop.

Feb 26, 2020 3:58:52 GMT Shootist said:

Haku did a lot of GOAT stuff in retrospect like the sunset flip, sidekick and that piledriver on Bulldog in the '92 Rumble. For the finish Danny Davis runs in 

Nice mention of Haku piledriving Davey Boy at the '92 Rumble. Rewatching that a few years ago is when I first started to come around on Haku/Meng. Pete then furthered the cause by recommending a great Faces of Fear vs. High Voltage squash. 

Feb 26, 2020 13:08:40 GMT 🤯 said:

Fuck me, it's working now. Assuming stupid mobile issues.

I'm WEEPING over the inclusion of KBB's butthole in that sign. So hilarious.

Feb 26, 2020 18:20:03 GMT Shootist said:

I still can't see it on my laptop.

I can see it on my laptop, but not my phone.

www.wrestlingdvdnetwork.com/throwback-thursday-prime-time-wrestling-104-on-wwe-network/131466/ 
Scroll about 2/3rds of the way down for the Bundy sign.
=============================
I had always sort of dismissed the Heenan Family as a "real" stable. The way I remembered it, the Heenan Family members were a random assortment of rogues who didn't interact with each other all that much. The only thing they really had in common was a wish to fulfill their manager's ultimate goal of dethroning Hulk Hogan for the WWF Championship.

Turns out I was mostly wrong. Yeah, they're still a rather random assortment of villains, but the Heenan Family (at least in 1987) are constantly interfering in each other's matches, and frequently teaming together in all sorts of tag matches, particularly during the summer of '87. Here are two examples....

Heenan Family (Orndorff/Bundy/Race/Hercules) w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Roma/Powers/Mancini/Don Driggers- Superstars 6/20/87

Race & Herc enter to The King's classic theme (which Lawler would later borrow and make his own). Bundy then gets a special introduction courtesy of Heenan. This is followed by Orndorff getting a super special introduction from "The Brain." Turns out this is Mr. Wonderful's return to television after a 3 month absence. Guessing he took some time off in the hope that the injury which shrunk his arm would heal. Heenan is wearing his now-trademark neck brace.

All 4 heels take turns beating up Driggers. They have him pinned multiple times, but let him up at 2 to inflict more punishment. He eventually hits a lucky kick on Orndorff when "Mr. Wonderful" telegraphs a back body drop, which enables him to make the tag to Powers. Same deal with Jimmy P. The heels take turns working him over. Herc slams him in his own corner where he is able to tag Mancini. Unsuper Mario is soon hit by Orndorff's GOAT Piledriver*. "Mr. Wonderful" does an arrogant cover, standing on Mancini with one foot while flexing and posing in the style of Hulk Hogan, for the 1-2-3. Interesting to note that Roma (who was a Vince Guy according to Prichard....at least until he got a big head) did not get any ring time in this one. 

Verdict- Basic squash to showcase the 4 Heenan Family members with special emphasis on the returning Orndorff.

*Mr. Wonderful was the premier practitioner of the Piledriver during the early days of my wrestling fandom. Like he was "Mr. Piledriver." The first guy who came to mind when I thought of the move. While the Piledrivers of Funk & Lawler would eventually surpass Orndorff's in terms of fame, I still think Wonderful had the GOAT Piledriver in terms of execution.

Heenan Family (Rude/Race/Hercules) w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Mancini/Jerry Allen/Rick Hunter- Superstars 8/1/87

Similar deal to last time with Race & Herc entering to The King's theme. Bobby then introduces the next member of his team. In this case, the DEBUTING "Ravishing" Rick Rude!

Kinda sorta remembered this, though not the exact details. I just recalled Rude debuting cold in some sort of tag match.

It's neat to see early Rude (and Dibiase). They're both about 75% of the way there, but not quite fully formed yet. In Rude's case, he's already insulting the crowd (Lizard-looking men) in a pre-match promo, and really milking his disrobing with multiple teases. But the airbrushed tights aren't there yet, and he uses a Slingshot Suplex finisher rather than his iconic Rude Awakening. (In Dibiase's case, he experimented with multiple finishers- Backwards flying elbow, Powerslam, Sharpshooter, and Figure Four iirc before finally settling on the Million Dollar Dream). Fwiw Rude would also use an over the shoulder backbreaker submission for a little while before finally adopting the Rude Awakening.

The spotlight is quite rightly on Rude. Herc & Race get some early ring time with both notably throwing subpar clotheslines (and after I spent all that time talking up Herc's 'line! Sad.) before putting the spotlight on "Ravishing" Rick. It was also cool to see Jesse being a huge Rude Guy from Day One. I always got the impression that Rude was Ventura's favorite wrestler.

Heenan cut an inset promo during the match weirdly pushing Bam Bam Bigelow more than Rude. The gist of Heenan's promo being Rude is a close personal friend of Bigelow, giving Heenan the inside track in the Battle For Bam Bam. The implication being Heenan signed Rude simply to have a better shot at signing Bam Bam. Told you guys Bigelow's hype through the roof.
==========================
*Will probably be back later with a Random Thoughts/semi-wrap up post. 

Random Thoughts & Observations

Was just scrolling through Rick Rude's Cagematch profile and saw he jobbed at a house show to a jabroni named Jerry Allen exactly one month into his WWF career. Guess this was another one of those Wacky Vince tests? If so, Rude seems to have passed with flying colors.

Another neat thing about 1987 was how they'd occasionally run tv matches where stars teamed with jobbers. Like Don Muraco/Bob Orton/....Joe Mirto or the Can Am Connection and....Lanny Poffo (who was a jobber in those days) in 6 Man Tag action. 

Did you know WWF held their own version of the Crockett Cup called the Frank Tunney Sr. Memorial Tournament? I actually discovered this a few years ago. But that's still like 30 years of wrestling fandom where I did not know this thing existed. It took place 3/15/87 in Toronto. The Killer Bees won by defeating Demolition(!) in the Finals. They earned an immediate tag title shot where they were subsequently defeated by the Hart Foundation.

This is one time where NWA > WWF. The Crockett Cup was a HUGE deal while nobody outside of the Toronto area ever heard of the Tunney Tournament. It's also a rare ball drop by WWF. They probably could have made a lot of money hyping this and later putting out a condensed Coliseum Home Video version of the show.

Same goes for their yearly King of the Ring tournament, which was merely a house show in various New England locales in those days. 

Who do you think was the best heel in 1987 WWF? For me, it boils down to a race between Dibiase, Honky, Andre, and Davis. What a rogues gallery! All four men had nuclear heat. Davis would have to be 4th (though I still think there's an alternate universe where he got Honky's push and went down as the Greatest Intercontinental Champion of all time. He was THAT over as a heel). You know what? I can't even answer this question. You can't go wrong picking any of those guys.

The 3/14/87 episode of SNME (featuring the Battle Royal I reviewed last week) drew an 11.6 rating. It is still a record for that timeslot, and will likely never be broken.

On Prichard's podcast Bruce & Conrad gave perhaps the greatest example of Hogan's ridiculous drawing power during this period. On December 27th, two days after Christmas, mind you, WWF drew 13,000 for an afternoon house show in the Washington DC suburbs headlined by a Hogan tag match. The Hulkster then immediately hopped on a plane to fly to Toronto where another Hogan tag match that evening drew a sellout crowd of 17,500. Meaning Hogan drew over 30,000 people to two house shows a few days after Christmas. That's just ridiculous.

Oh, but it gets better. WWF ran SIX shows that day and the day before. Hogan pulled double duty both days. Day One saw The Hulkster travel 243 miles from Chicago (12,000) to Toledo (8,261 which seems huge for humble, little Toledo). Day Two saw him draw 30,500 while making a nearly 500 mile journey from Landover, US to Toronto, Canada. Hulk Hogan, a least during this period, earned every penny, brother. And those old school wrestlers aren't joking around when they talk about how insane the schedule was back then.

Another interesting tidbit from Bruce's podcast came when he mentioned how all the old promoters thought Hogan would be a flash in the pan. "He's a gimmick! A showman! A phony! Not a REAL tough guy! The people will soon see through him! They can't keep up this charade forever!"

Umm...exsqueeze me? Baking powder? These idiots deserved to go out of business.

I totally bought into Hulk Hogan as a badass tough guy because he looked like He Man with a mustache and was presented as a real life superhero. The funny thing is if some yahoo had come up to me in 1987 and told me "King" Harley Race was a REAL badass while Hulk Hogan was a phony I'd have laughed right in their face.

And I loved The King! Hated The Hulkster! But presentation is everything. Did I get worked? Sure. 100% But guess what? Wrestling is a work! Hogan looked the part. And he was booked the part. Harley Race was cool. But tough guy? Nah. Why he's just an old skinny fat guy! Fwiw Dory Funk was a retired math teacher, Flair was a whimp, and I didn't even know what the hell a "Lou Thesz"or "Bob Backlund" was.

Kiddie me definitely had a grudging respect for Hogan in much the same way I had for other childhood nemeses such as Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, and Mike Tyson. They were all the best in the world at what they did. A win over them meant something. Which is precisely why their rare setbacks were so memorable. It's what made Andre beating Hogan, Buster Douglas beating Tyson, and the New York Giants ending the Montana-led 49ers dynasty so great. Too bad that damn Jordan never lost. Guess that makes him the greatest of the greats? Anyway, another great man once said "To be the man you gotta beat the man" and like it or not, Hulk Hogan was The Man.

Did you know Andre the Giant only wrestled 8 matches all year, and not a single match during a 7 month stretch from April-November? I most certainly did not. Hmm....guess this knocks Andre down to the #3 heel spot. Can't put Andre above Teddy Wrestling and Da Honk when he was barely active. 

Bruce mentioned producing some videos at a certain "Video One in Baltimore" several times. By about the third time I figured it was time to investigate. What exactly was this Video One? Might they still be around?

Well, those investigations did not reveal much. Just a few production credit mentions in WWF videos and a handful of appearances in Linked In profiles. The most promising document appears to be some sort of legal pdf page dating from 1987, but that was tough to read. Judging by Bruce's comments, and this very limited data, the mysterious Video One Inc. appears to have been some sort of production studio that did a lot of work with WWF during the time in question. As best I can tell, they disappeared (went out of business?) a short time later. According to one flimsy source this Video One Inc. was located not far from where I attended that ROH show a few weeks back. May dig deeper at some point.

During my Bees/Hart Foundation write up I mentioned that being the only time I remembered watching wrestling at that particular house my grandmother lived in. Wrong! Because I just remembered watching the 1987 Slammy's there. You know what sucked? The 1987 Slammy's. That's what.

For some reason I distinctly remember expecting the Slammy's to be "legit" (for lack of a better word). I don't know where I got this silly idea. I don't think I had ever even watched an Oscar's or Emmy award show at this point. But I just thought it was going to be this very serious, very prestigious thing. It wasn't.

And all I really remember about it today (aside from that sense of disappointment/hatred) is Hacksaw Jim Duggan chasing King Harley Race around the building like some kind of bad Looney Tunes parody and a Duggan/Race food fight. I have no idea if any of that stuff actually happened! It definitely seems like a figment of my imagination. But dammit! That is how I remember it.

====================================

Wrapping It Up?

This has been an extremely fun project. One of my favorites on either PW to be honest. Truly the ultimate nostalgia trip. I managed to find every match I set out to find. It was fun to revisit all this stuff that had been stuck in my head for 33 glorious years. I was able to confirm many memories and clarify a few others. I also made a few fun new discoveries along the way. Hopefully I was at least somewhat entertaining in sharing all this stuff.

And now I feel as if my work here is (mostly) done. Sure, I COULD write about Wrestlemania III, Survivor Series, and Saturday Night's Main Event. BUT....

I already covered WM 3 in depth on the old PW. I wrote about most of the matches individually, and did a full show review when I rewatched all the early Wrestlemania's with my brother a few years back. I also wrote about all the biggest, most memorable SNME matches (Hogan/Orndorff, Battle Royal, Savage/Honky, Savage/Bret, Hogan/Bundy) on one PW or the other. Ditto for (at least) most of the Survivor Series matches. I also covered a few of the cool Hogan/Race house show matches. Besides, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of places online where you can read about that stuff. It's boring. I have nothing new to offer. I'd much rather write a few hundred words about Morgan Bastien. You're not going to get that kind of content anywhere else. 

That's not to say I am 100% completely done with this thread. On the contrary, I will almost certainly pop back in from time to time. If I stumble upon something interesting, or something triggers another memory, I will be back here in a jiffy to write about it. This thread is just no longer going to be a top priority.

I'm also feeling a little guilty about mostly ignoring Dibiase, Steamboat, and especially Savage because those guys are legends who also happened to be HUGE parts of 1987 WWF. I definitely didn't plan it that way. That's just how it happened to work out. So maybe I'll come back soon to write a little more about those guys.

There's also a good chance I take 🤯 up on his offer to do a 1988 WWF thread. Gonna warn you right now though. There's a good chance that thread is just 5 posts about the awesome Dino Bravo bench press angle, 10 posts about Hogan/Andre II and the build to WM 4, five more posts about that time "Outlaw" Ron Bass busted Brutus Beefcake open with a spur attack, and a few other posts In Search Of....this one Rougeau Brothers promo. 

This was one of the best threads to come around in a long time. 1987 was a massive transitional year for both the WWF and me personally as a wrestling fan. They further established their stranglehold with Wrestlemania III and a second PPV in Survivor Series. They also fortified their roster with acquisitions like DiBiase, Rude, Warrior and Duggan. More direct competition with NWA started by running Survivor Series the same night as Starrcade and all the ramifications of that.

For me personally the transition away from Stampede began in earnest at the end of the year with getting cable and all the WWF programming (Superstars, SNME, Prime Time, non-snowy Challenge) to go with it. In less than two years I was even catching more NWA stuff than Stampede by virtue of getting Worldwide and Power Hour at my home as well as catching Saturday Night when I could while visiting either my aunt and uncle or my grandparents. Things were really moving away from the territory system to say the least.

I second the sentiment of this being the greatest thing to hit the wrestling side of PW in a long while. Haven't looked forward to new posts to catch up on in the morning more than since back when Big Evil was posting his fan fic'd WWF. Epic stuff, Baker-man!

EDIT: or shit, Baker-man's fan fic'd WWF too. That shit was equally epic, and had me equally hooked. Now come to think of it, Bake might be the sole reason I keep coming back to PW for the content.

Went looking for the results of our old "Favorite Promotion By Calendar Year" countdown. Success!  

1987 WWF disappointingly finished way down in the 30s with only 3 voters for 6 points. I dropped the ball by only having it at #10 on my own list, while Kilgore showed better taste by being the high vote, having it at #7. Another poster I have written down as "Dan"(TheMan?) also had it at #10. 
============================
Kamala w/ Mr. Fuji & Kim Chee vs. Jake Roberts- Saturday Night's Main Event 5/2/87

WWF aired 5 Saturday Night's Main Event episodes in 1987. At least 3 of those other episodes had a minimum of one memorable match. This May 2nd edition is the forgotten episode (for me anyway). And now I know why! This was the only one of those episodes without a Hogan match. Speaking of Hogan....

I recently saw a guy on another forum claim Hogan only had 32 TV & PPV matches during an 8 year stretch ranging from some point in the mid 80s through the early 90s (forget the exact details). I didn't double check this guy's work, but even if he is wrong it wouldn't be by much. The point is Hogan rarely wrestled on tv or PPV. Meaning every televised Hogan appearance was a big deal....An Event in and of itself.

I do not remember this match from real time. Must have missed this episode, and it must have weirdly not been recapped much on tv. First learned about its existence by reading an old issue of WWF Magazine in 95-96 that I acquired in a trade (along with some LJN figures) for a few baseball cards. Best trade this side of the Astros swindling the Orioles by getting Pete Harnisch, Curt Schilling, and Steve Finley for Glenn "Disabled List" Davis. Anyway, the magazine blurb mentioned an awesome-on-paper swerve and now I am finally watching it for the first time (that I can remember, anyway). 

Video of Honky clocking Jake with the stiffest guitar shot ever. The newly turned babyface Jake then bullies Mean Gene with his snake. What a jerk! Then again, that's par for the course considering something like half the babyfaces in 1987 WWF were jerks. 

This is an interesting match on paper. One of my favorite things about SNME was the "logos" they would use for the wrestlers. Just more of that pure 80s WWF goodness.

Ugh! They're doing a "Kamala is afraid of snakes" gimmick. Way to kill his monster aura, guys. Jake is as tall, or taller, than Kamala. Vince is great throughout this on commentary. "Ooh! Looks like Carl Lewis there! What a long jump!" When Kamala runs away from Damian. Then "Kamala doing the St. Vitus Dance!" after Jake works the feet~! Leave it to Jake Roberts, widely regarded as a master of psychology, to work the feet of a barefooted wrestler.

That's basically the match. Kamala clubbers away with chops and head butts. He also slips in his side kick and a bearhug. Jake stays in the game by working over Kamala's feet with stomps. Kim Chee is more animated than usual on the floor. It gets brought up a time or two on commentary, but they don't beat you over the head with it. We get a big "DDT" chant or two from the South Bend, Indiana crowd and they get really into Jake's comebacks. Jake drills Kamala with a High Knee from the second rope. Could honestly see that being a finisher today. Jesse marks out in spite of Jake's face status with a "Whoa! I've never seen that done before!" I've also recently discovered Hulk Hogan was a common practitioner of the High Knee back in the day. Didn't remember him using that at all. But he's a regular HHH/Jumbo/Race....Booty Man with that thing.

Jake signals for the DDT. Crowd is way into this. Fuji distracts the ref. Kim Chee runs in and blindsides Jake with a shot to the back. Kamala with a big splash outta nowhere! 1-2-3! Whoa! Kamala has just pinned Jake Roberts on tv! Huge BOOS!

But the fun has just begun. Kim Chee starts removing some of his beekeeper garments to reveal....

The Honkytonk Man! Epic Swerve! I would have marked out so hard for this in real time. That's how I know I somehow missed this when it aired. No way I would have forgotten this. Huge boos for Honk! He drops some elbows and hits his Shake, Rattle & Roll finisher on Jake.

Verdict- So so match. Great angle. 

Remember the other day when I couldn't decide who the best heel in 1987 WWF was? Well, even before watching this match,I had decided on HTM simply because Dibiase didn't come in until halfway through the year. Hell, I'm pretty sure deciding Honky was the best heel in 1987 WWF is what inspired me to check out this match in the first place.

I was a little surprised even 33 years later to see Jake take the pinfall loss. He had just turned face and just lost to Honk at WM 3. Plus Kamala was on his way down the card now that his program with Hogan had run its course. I knew about the Kim Chee=HTM swerve. But I just figured it would be a DQ finish. 

So I went investigating under the premise "Maybe Jake was about to take time off for his injury?" And I was sort of right. Jake did take almost two months off. But then I came across yet another interesting little discovery....

WWF only ran one show in the 3.5 weeks immediately following Wrestlemania III. Meaning everybody got a nice little vacation. I was not aware of that. Now I'm wondering if they took a little post-WM vacation every year back in the day....
=================================
Ricky Steamboat (c) vs. Randy Savage w/ Elizabeth- Houston House Show 5/15/87- IC Title Match

Decided the time was long overdue to cover a Savage match for this project. And what better way to introduce the Macho Man than by writing about a match against his legendary rival!

This match has no commentary and must have been included on some Randy Savage DVD because there is a logo of Mach's sunglasses in the bottom left corner of the screen at the outset.

This is the proverbial "dimly lit arena" How very pre-1987! No commentary means you can really hear the crowd. And there are definitely sizable pockets of Macho Man fans. "Macho" chants are fairly common. I did not hear a single pro-Steamboat chant. You can also quite clearly see people marking out when Savage is on the attack. BUT the place also explodes when Steamboat makes his comebacks. Meaning....

Macho Man fans are a vocal minority. They are loud and brash with their chanting. Steamboat fans are quieter, but explode when their hero is on the offensive. It also seems like there are many more of them than Mach fans. One takeaway from this....

The loud, brash Macho Man fans act like their hero. The more reserved, yet explosive when the time calls for it, Steamboat fans also emulate their hero. How cool is that?

This is a very basic match in terms of moves. It's mostly Savage punching while Steamboat responds to those punches by putting on a clinic in selling. Mini-rant incoming....

When I started renting tapes every weekend in 95-96, and first started to care about "good matches," it was only natural that I would revisit the iconic Wrestlemania III featuring the legendary Savage/Steamboat match. I remember being somewhat underwhelmed. Like "that was it?" It seemed dated to me. Where were the fancy movez?!?  It was also considerably shorter than all the Flair/Steamboat matches I was watching around that same time. The Flair/Steamboat matches were also not marred by the presence of stupid George "The Animal" Steele. I still liked Steamboat/Savage, mind you, but more in a 'good for its time' kind of way. It certainly couldn't hold a candle to the then-state of the art stuff Bret, Michaels, and the WCW Cruiserweights were doing.

Now I think it actually ages better than most movefests. 21 two counts primarily off small packages was kind of lame to mid 90s me. But now I've come full circle and would much rather have 21 two counts primarily off small packages than 21 two counts off flippy high flying stuff and crazy bombs/drivers.

ANYWAY, Savage's biggest moves are merely his patented flying axehandle and his old 'drape them over the top rope "clothesline."' Calling that move a clothesline confused the hell out of kiddie me, by the way. Steamboat mostly takes a beating, but does slip in some fiery comebacks. His biggest move was a patented top rope chop.

Finish comes when Savage goes to hit Steamboat in the corner with the ring bell. Steamboat ducks. The bell ricochets back, hitting Savage, which enables Steamboat to roll him up for the 1-2-3.  Great finish! In terms of psychology/payoff. See, because it was a Savage ring bell attack which famously injured Steamboat's throat, being the catalyst for this entire feud.

It was also neat to see the 'heel uses a weapon only to have it backfire on him when he gets hit on the ricochet' spot I always associate with Kurt Angle (who always managed to make it look both funny AND painful). This same basic concept also played into the finish of Piper/Adonis at Wrestlemania III, this time the weapon in question being a pair of giant shears. Meaning it was older than I thought.

Verdict- Solid match. ***?

Feb 29, 2020 3:06:16 GMT Baker said:

Went looking for the results of our old "Favorite Promotion By Calendar Year" countdown. Success!  

1987 WWF disappointingly finished way down in the 30s with only 3 voters for 6 points. I dropped the ball by only having it at #10 on my own list, while Kilgore showed better taste by being the high vote, having it at #7. Another poster I have written down as "Dan"(TheMan?) also had it at #10. 

Hell yeah. I never keep lists I make for countdowns, so my guess (which will be interesting because I think of these things as mostly arbitrary, if I feel the same way tonight maybe it's less arbitrary?) that the years ahead of WWF 1997 are:

ECW (1995)
ECW (1996)
WWF (1997)
WWF (1998)
WCW (1996)
WCW (1997)

In some different order, but I think those are most of the correct years. Just ECW showing the Monday Night Wars the way, then the Monday Night Wars while it was still competitive, the greatest years of wrestling as far as I'm concerned. Then WWF 1987 as the best of 80s wrestling, what brought me to the fucking dance.

Feb 29, 2020 3:06:16 GMT Baker said:

I recently saw a guy on another forum claim Hogan only had 32 TV & PPV matches during an 8 year stretch ranging from some point in the mid 80s through the early 90s (forget the exact details). I didn't double check this guy's work, but even if he is wrong it wouldn't be by much. The point is Hogan rarely wrestled on tv or PPV. Meaning every televised Hogan appearance was a big deal....An Event in and of itself.

Absolutely. This is why explaining Bret Hart Fighting Champion will never suffice to the experience of seeing the WWF Champion defending the belt on like Superstars occasionally. It was so completely different, and while it probably set precedent for the worse, as a kid you're not thinking about long term effects, just holy shit, Bret Hart is defending the belt on TV again! Plus the Championship belt being devalued just in amount of times defended on TV was inevitable, anyway, might as well be The Motherfucking Hitman getting credit for being the first modern WWF Champion. It could be, and was, devalued in worse ways. 

Feb 29, 2020 3:06:16 GMT Baker said:

This is an interesting match on paper. One of my favorite things about SNME was the "logos" they would use for the wrestlers. Just more of that pure 80s WWF goodness.

YES THE LOGOS HELL YEAH

Feb 29, 2020 3:06:16 GMT Baker said:

I've also recently discovered Hulk Hogan was a common practitioner of the High Knee back in the day. Didn't remember him using that at all. But he's a regular HHH/Jumbo/Race....Booty Man with that thing.

Didn't Hulk do the knee to the middle of the back too? Hulkster had hops too. Young Hulk's athleticism is greatly underrated. Early Hulkamania didn't just run the ropes, he was still fucking sprinting off the ropes. Young heel Hulk even more so, plus young heel Hulk anytime he left his feet for something like an elbow drop (which he'd usually miss) Hulkster got serious air, brother. Only Sid has more underrated hops. Sid's leg drop, sometimes his ass would above the top rope.

Feb 29, 2020 3:06:16 GMT Baker said:

Macho Man fans are a vocal minority. They are loud and brash with their chanting. Steamboat fans are quieter, but explode when their hero is on the offensive. It also seems like there are many more of them than Mach fans. One takeaway from this....

The loud, brash Macho Man fans act like their hero. The more reserved, yet explosive when the time calls for it, Steamboat fans also emulate their hero. How cool is that?

Method fandom.

Also loved the logos, along with those cool backgrounds during promos.

Savage used the knee to the back (what I called the Pearl Harbor knee due to one of Gorilla's favorite pharses), Hogan used the high knee on occasion from my memory. I didn't think he was in Harley Race or Triple H territory.

That greatest years countdown must have been on the old PW, I still have all my lists from this version of PW but not that one.

WWF turning everything to gold in 1987 is proof positive just looking at HTM's wins over Jake and Steamboat. That goof getting wins over two of the coolest faces in the company? He was just the right amount of goofy though for fans in the 80's to want to see him get beat I guess. He was just terribly lame to me even by 80's standards.

Feb 29, 2020 6:40:54 GMT Kilgore said:

ECW (1995)
ECW (1996)
WWF (1997)
WWF (1998)
WCW (1996)
WCW (1997)

Didn't Hulk do the knee to the middle of the back too?
Hulkster got serious air, brother. Only Sid has more underrated hops. Sid's leg drop, sometimes his ass would above the top rope.

You got 5 out of 6. You had 1989 NWA at #6, while 1996 WCW failed to make your list at all.

One of Prichard's 1987 podcasts on Youtube has a background image of Hogan dropping the big leg. He was way up there. A good number of the comments were some variation of "Look at the hops on Hogan!"
I also always remembered Sid getting big air on his leg drop. One of my big anti-Hulk talking points in 96-97 was "Sid has a better leg drop than Hogan....and Sid sucks!"

Feb 29, 2020 7:01:12 GMT Shootist said:

Savage used the knee to the back (what I called the Pearl Harbor knee due to one of Gorilla's favorite pharses), Hogan used the high knee on occasion from my memory. I didn't think he was in Harley Race or Triple H territory.

WWF turning everything to gold in 1987 is proof positive just looking at HTM's wins over Jake and Steamboat. That goof getting wins over two of the coolest faces in the company? He was just the right amount of goofy though for fans in the 80's to want to see him get beat I guess. He was just terribly lame to me even by 80's standards.

I'm stealing the Pearl Harbor Knee for my reviews from now on. I haven't seen Hogan use it during this recent binge. But I'm sure he did on occasion. I definitely associate that move with the Macho Man though. He did it once or twice in that match against Steamboat. Savage also executed the only armdrag of the match!

I probably did exaggerate Hogan's use of the traditional High Knee simply because he used it in all three matches I've watched during this deep dive.

Did you ever see Honky in Stampede?

That's where he worked immediately before joining WWF. WWF ran a show with some Stampede assistance in front of allegedly 22,000 in the Saddledome. Honky was all "I wanna be a part of that!" since he claimed that even on Stampede's best day they would have trouble filling up the 5,000 seat Pavilion across the street, while WWF sold out the much bigger arena with no tv in the area. HTM had some guy put together a video that he brought with him on his trip to Titan Towers. Everybody was impressed by his heeling. He was offered a job. There was just one catch. Vince wanted to bring him in as a babyface with his logic being the kids will buy HTM jumpsuits and Elvis wigs. OK, this gives ammunition to the "Vince is an idiot" people. He saw The Honkytonk Man as a babyface?!? It boggles the mind. Anyway, Honky wasn't a huge fan of this since he had been a heel for....ever? But he wasn't about to say no and ruin the biggest break of his career. 

So he debuts at a tv taping in Canada where he promptly gets booed out of the building because the fans hated his guts since they had seen him performing all these dastardly deeds on Stampede tv over the previous two years. Vince is all "Goddamn, pal! These people really hate you." And I guess The Vinman saw money in a heel Honky because they turned him bad guy a short time later in this classic angle which was just before my time.....



Honky didn't turn on the fans. The fans turned on Honky. And they got what they deserved by having to "put up" with the Greatest Intercontinental Championship reign of all time. 
===================================
Butch Reed w/ Slick vs. "Superstar" Billy Graham- Superstars 11/14/87

Can't believe it took me until now to write about this one. Especially after listening to Prichard touch on this memorable angle during his Survivor Series '87 podcast a week or two ago. 

WWF hyped "legendary former champion" Graham's comeback for what felt like an eternity. They would air these vignettes of Graham of getting surgery. That's not an exaggeration. They literally showed the doctors cutting into him. I swear I'm not making this up! It was up there with that GLOW gal's gruesome injury as the grossest thing I ever saw on a wrestling program for at least a decade. 

EDIT: Turns out Graham actually had 3 separate, brief comebacks in between surgeries in 86-87. His body just couldn't go anymore.

Reed & Graham started beefing, I assume over who had the better body, because I remember a Reed/Graham posedown similar to the more famous Rude/Warrior pose off at Royal Rumble '89. Graham won the posedown. Then he got attacked by Reed to give Graham a kayfabe reason for yet another surgery. This is Graham's latest big return match.

But there's one final twist I discovered from Bruce's podcast. Graham was slated to compete on Hogan's team at Survivor Series 87, while his most recent nemesis, Reed, would be on Andre's team. Graham told Vince he had been training like a madman and claimed to be as big, or bigger, than he had been back in his 70s heyday. Vince sent Joel Watts(!) over to produce an interview with Graham for tv. Joel reported back to Vince that, far from being in "1977 shape," Graham looked terrible. So Vince pulled the out of shape Graham from Survivor Series "so he didn't embarrass himself."

Fun Fact: For like 8-9 years I had just assumed Graham was always a huge fan favorite. Finding out he was a heel in his prime was a bit of a mind screw.

We start off in a good way with two high quality themes. Reed enters to JIVE SOUL BRO! No way! I didn't think that came along for another year or so.

Fun Fact: #2: The music video for Jive Soul Bro was filmed outside of the mysterious Video One headquarters in Baltimore. Slick almost got into a fight with some randoms on the street while shooting the video according to one Bruce Prichard.

And then Graham enters to Jesus Christ, Superstar!

Fun Fact: #3: This was also Steve Austin's theme in ECW. When I first heard "Superstar" Steve Austin enter to that theme on tape in '98, I immediately thought "That's Don Muraco's theme!" (by way of Superstar Graham. More on that in a bit...)

Vince on commentary weirdly shits on Slick by more or less saying "He's not a very good manager." One Man Gang pops in with a well-timed inset promo to debunk Vince's claim with basically "Slick is a very good manager! The best!" Can't say I remember this weird little "Slick is a bad manager" storyline. I personally always had time for "The Doctor of Style." Just sucks that he was a contemporary of two all time greats in Heenan & peak Jimmy Hart. It's hard to stand out when you've got those two Hall of Famers right there. 

Anyway, Reed immediately jumps Graham. He spends the bulk of this short match working over the Superstar's surgically repaired hip. Reed's leg work is good. And this is a smart match. Since Graham can't really move. Oh, Graham came out wearing a tie dye shirt looking like a dead ringer for 2020 Scott Steiner. Graham does manage to grab Reed in bearhug. Slick comes in for the DQ. Now Graham sets his sights on The Slickster. And here's where things really get good....

One Man Gang jumps Graham. Reed & Gang then proceed to annihilate Graham. Reed holds him down while Gang hits not one, not two, but THREE splashes to Graham's surgically repaired hip. Good grief! Don Muraco then runs out for the save. Muraco was either already Graham's protege, or would soon become his protege. I forget the exact timing here. Muraco really bulked up for his babyface run, putting on a good 20 pounds of muscle from his heel run early in the year. Muraco manages to free his mentor from the clutches of Slick's diabolical duo. A bunch of referees pull a stretcher out from underneath the ring(!). They're about to load Graham on when that pesky Butch Reed slips in another cheap shot on The Superstar. Muraco chases him around the ring....

Leaving Graham susceptible to yet ANOTHER Gang splash! This one on the floor! NO!!!! Will somebody please stop this carnage? This is every bit as HEINOUS as I remembered. Just absolutely uncalled for! Meaning.....Great angle! 

When I first got online in 1998 I'd occasionally encounter these crotchety old Bill Watts/Mid South/UWF enthusiasts who would bemoan the "misuse" of One Man Gang by "evil" Vince. I wrote these people off as old men yelling at clouds. I mean, we all know Akeem > One Man Gang.... 

But now I see the Gang's WWF run similarly to Vader's. Both actually had a really strong initial 6-8 months that everybody (especially fanboys of the two men) tend to ignore. We all know about Vader. But Gang had that memorable mauling of multiple jobbers, received kayfabe credit for ending Superstar Graham's career, worked a fairly lengthy house show program with Hogan, and got to be the runner up in the inaugural Royal Rumble. That's a hell of a 6-8 month run!

I'm also really digging this Gang/Reed team. One of my favorite little Mid South things was the Butch Reed/Buddy Landell alliance where Reed was this no nonsense badass heel and Landell was this slightly goofy, shit stirring hype man that Reed tolerated. There's seeds of that here with Reed in the Landell role. Now you might be thinking booking Butch Reed as Buddy Landell is a little weird, and it definitely would be.....if his own "Butch Reed" wasn't a 6'9, 457 pound splash-happy monster!

This marked the end of Graham's career. He would get a proper sendoff with some sort of "Lifetime Achievement Award" at the Slammy's in late December. His protege, Don Muraco, would take up the fight for him against Reed and the Gang, including being inserted into Graham's Survivor Series spot.

Verdict- Nothing match. Great angle. That's quickly become the trademark 1987 WWF Match Review line.
===================================
I had an idea for a while to compare and contrast 1987 WWF with its rival promotions. Seeing Butch & Gang in action accelerated this plan. So I started watching a January 1987 UWF show last night....

But didn't make it very far. Wasn't really feeling its "Southpaw Regional Wrestling meets frenetic Attitude Era booking" vibe. Skipped ahead a lot. Though I did stick around just long enough to watch a botchtastic Sting & Rick Steiner squash. I was thinking "This is a DUD." And then Sting just about broke his neck by botching his own finisher (Rick Martel's slingshot splash). Meaning this is an extremely rare NEGATIVE STAR MATCH. 

Fwiw I don't remember Sting & Steiner from watching 1987 UWF in real time. Don't have many real time UWF memories at all tbh. Just the existence of about 10 wrestlers, the UWF Top 10 itself, and the "Dr. Death broken arm" angle. 

Anyway, 1987 WWF smokes 1987 UWF in the first (and last?) of these head to head battles.

Honky first came onto my radar in late 1985 when Bruce Hart got Stampede up and going again. He was paired with "Rotten" Ron Starr as The Memphis Mafia at first. I don't remember this but they had a run with Ben Bassarab (also a Dynamite Kid clone) and a rookie named Chris Benoit which led to Benoit's first taste of pro wrestling gold in the Stampede Tag Team championship. The Memphis Mafia also feuded with the Hart Foundation which I do remember since it was my first exposure to the heel/face dynamic that we would see over a decade later with Bret and Jim. His singles feuds with white meat baby face Ron Ritchie (a contender for the lightest man in wrestling) and newly turned face Bad News Allen were my other memories of HTM in Stampede. I so wanted to see Bad News beat the hell out of HTM while Ritchie played the ultimate underdog. Even back then HTM got questionable booking when he beat Bad News for the North American title by countout no less, so the hatred went back a few years for me.

I barely remember Billy Graham as an active wrestler in real time 1986/87 probably due to all of his injuries. I first really learned of his legacy through the PWI Almanac and seeing him clean up on most of the 1977 awards and his lengthy WWWF title reign.

Going back in recent years and watching the old stuff Slick was a revelation on commentary, he and Monsoon had great chemistry together and he had so many good one liner's. I particularly remember him deriding Junkyard Dog calling him illiterate in a match against Harley Race iirc. People need to look up Slick on the mic, so underrated.

^Only heard Slick on commentary one time. Forget the match. But I'll confirm what Shootist wrote. The Slickster was surprisingly good on commentary.

Listened to Schiavone & Conrad discuss Wrestlemania III over the past two days. Coolest thing about this was getting Schiavone's "outsider" perspective. He has a way better take on WM 3 than Cornette & Meltzer. Looks like I'm turning into a fan of both Schiavone and Hogan in my old age. 1998 me would not recognize his future self.



More importantly, I made the shocking discovery that Slick's classic Jive Soul Bro theme is a ripoff (parody?) of a 1981 song called Jive Ol' Fo by a band named Captain Chameleon. But that's not all. It gets even more interesting. The "A Side" to Jive Ol' Fo was none other than Grab Them Cakes, which was of course Junkyard's Dog 80s WWF theme. Methinks somebody in Stamford had a very productive trip to the record store one day in the mid 80s. Also, Captain Chameleon's singer reminds me of country music legend, Jerry Reed.

*Pretty sure this is going to be the last entry for the foreseeable future. I really mean it this time! Stumbled upon a new Game of Thrones universe book the other day that I did not know existed. I'm only on page 74 out of 706. So I'll probably be spending the next few nights reading that. Then, if I'm in the mood, I might do a 1988 WWF thread. Or maybe 1987 Other Wrestling? I dunno yet. But either one would be waaaaay shorter than this monster. Speaking of monster threads, I couldn't leave 1987 behind for good until I wrote a little more about the legendary "Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase...

Ted Dibiase Tuesday

DiBiase was one of those 10-12 UWF wrestlers I remembered from watching the promotion in early 1987. He also holds the distinction of being only the 2nd wrestler I ever saw jump from a non-WWF promotion to WWF. It was a little weird at first to see good guy Ted Dibiase suddenly become an evil rich guy. But I explained it away in my head that he won the lottery and the money corrupted him. Or maybe my dad gave me the idea? Don't remember for sure. But "Ted Dibiase=lottery winner" was definitely a thing to 1987 me. 

I also had a lacrosse coach who was a dead ringer for Ted Dibiase. Think this would have been the next year, 1988. Or maybe even 1989. Now I was 99% sure Mr. Chris was not, in fact, "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase. But....maybe he could have been?

One day my brother and I must have been overheard discussing this by our eavesdropping father. And he would go on to set us up. That is my theory anyway. Later that day (or week) at lacrosse Mr. Chris said he had been away for a few days. My dad asked where he went. And Mr. Chris answered with *insert name of the town WWF Superstars took place in that week.* My brother and I must have stared at each other with our jaws agape. And that's it. That's the story of Mr. Chris=Ted Dibiase. It goes no further that I can remember. I tried finding a picture of Mr. Chris "Dibiase" from 30 years ago online but unsurprisingly came up empty. One day I really need to collect and digitize all those old photographs.

ANYWAY, Bruce Prichard told a cool story on his podcast about how his real life good friend Ted Dibiase did not initially receive the white hot heat the gimmick was intended to garner. But before I go any further I highly recommend Bruce & Conrad's podcast on Dibiase. I posted the video a page or two back. You guys should check it out. So Vince's dream gimmick was working out ok, but it wasn't this huge thing yet. The people viewed him more as a lovable rogue than a massive dick. Like "Yeah, he's a jerk, but he DOES pay out. Hell. I'd do x for $xxx too!" Proving Dibiase's "Everybody Has A Price" mantra was accurate all along?

So Vince comes up with this genius concept- "What if he doesn't pay out?" By Bruce's own admission, they initially forgot what makes a heel a HEEL- "Heels lie, cheat, and steal."- Bruce Prichard

This all lead to the legendary "basketball" segment where a young boy was asked to dribble a basketball 15 times for $xxx. After the 14th dribble, Dibiase kicks the ball away. The kid is about to cry. The people are booing like crazy. Dibiase says "If you don't do the job, you don't get paid. *insert iconic Million Dollar Man laugh*" From that moment on, Dibiase had nuclear heat with the people. And the rest is history. 

Even I, Million Dollar Man fan from Day One, was like "Oh, no he didn't. That is MESSED UP." And it was. Guarantee you nearly every wrestling fan of that era remembers this segment. It's just one of those memorable things that burned itself into the brains of 1980s America's impressionable youth. All the Million Dollar Man vignettes were top notch. But this is THE iconic MDM moment. (Fwiw the kid did get paid and taken backstage to meet the wrestlers. But this all happened off camera. Would love to see the kid appear on some podcast as a grown up adult to talk about that segment.)

My anti-Dibiase stint lasted....I dunno....5 minutes? 2 more segments? Maybe a week? Something like that. Because I was back to being all in on the Million Dollar Man the second he started beefing with Hogan.
==========================
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. Lanny Poffo- Wrestling Challenge 9/12/87
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. SD Jones- Superstars 9/19/87
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. Sivi Afi- Wrestling Challenge 12/26/87
*Or Ted Dibiase runs through the top tier of babyface jobbers.

Poffo recited an above average poem and got in the most offense of any jobber in this trilogy before succumbing to the old Funk Spinning Toe Hold(!). 

I feel like SD "Special Delivery" Jones was starting to wind down by the time I began to watch wrestling. I don't actually know this, but I've always been of the belief that Jones was the top babyface jobber just before I started to watch. Like if a good guy jobber was going to get a win, it was most likely to be SD. He was at Wrestlemania II, dammit! He had an LJN figure! And a good one too! (perfectly shaped for punches, chokeslams, Rock Bottoms, and powerslams due to the design of his arms and hands) 

So I was excited to see some SD. But spent most of the match unimpressed. SD just stood there like a slug while Dibiase ran around the ring like a madman in an attempt to create excitement. But then SD runs his shoulder full force into the turnbuckle! So....I still don't know whether SD is any good or not. Anyway, he goes down to a backwards elbow drop off the middle rope.

And finally Sivi Afi. Here is a guy I do not remember at all from my real time viewing, though I surely must have seen him on a near-weekly basis. Yet my first Sivi Afi memory can only be traced back to when I initially got online in the late 90s. His name would often come up as an example of "Evil Vince" or as a cautionary tale of what happens when a blatant ripoff replaces a star. The story goes Sivi Afi was going to become the Next Jimmy Snuka. Vince allegedly promised him big things. But first Sivi Afi had to go and tattoo his entire upper body. Sivi Afi did as he was told. And he was pushed!.....for about a month. Then Vince lost interest. And the tattoo clad Snuka ripoff was jobbed out so much that he became an actual jobber rather than even a Holly/Aldo style jobber to the stars. That's the story anyway.....

But I watch this match and see NO TATTOOS! So I don't know what to believe anymore. Here he is also more like a Baby Haku than a Snuka clone. 

Basic squash action with Dibiase once again scoring the victory with his backwards elbow drop off the middle rope.

Most interesting thing about the Afi match was it took place just after Hogan rejected Dibiase's offer to buy the WWF Championship. Let's talk about that....
===========================
Dibiase's big storyline came a few months into his WWF career when he tried to buy the WWF Championship from Hogan. Hogan refused with an emphatic "NO!" Things escalated from there. Dibiase purchased the contract of Andre the Giant from Bobby Heenan. Andre was to be Dibiase's hitman of sorts. The plan was for Andre to take the title from Hogan and give it to Dibiase. And that's exactly what happened! When Andre defeated Hulk Hogan in front of a US record (that will never be broken) 33 million viewers with the help of an evil twin referee who received plastic surgery, also paid for by Dibiase. Fwiw this was my all time favorite match for close to 8 years. It was also the most watched match of my childhood. Anyway, these events lead directly to the tournament at Wrestlemania IV, which lead directly to Wrestlemania V. So, yeah, Dibiase trying to buy the belt from Hogan was a VERY important storyline. Honestly, I could easily make a strong case for it being a top 5 storyline in company history. But let's get back to December 1987.....

Dibiase is wicked pissed because Hogan just rejected his offer, right? Well, you wouldn't know it by his wrestling. He wrestled the same way he always did as a WWF heel- technically adept, but without fire. 

Dibiase was one of those sacred cows in my first half decade on the internet. Everybody loved him (at least in hindsight) and he was beyond criticism. A first ballot Hall of Famer/all time great for sure. The first time I ever saw anybody criticize Dibiase was in Dynamite Kid's book where Kid rated him a ridiculous 5/10 (or something very close). This got my dander up. "How DARE Dynamite Kid ONLY give the GREAT Ted Dibiase a 5/10!" Dynamite's ratings were a little odd throughout that book. He rated his good friend Jim Duggan ridiculous high as far as 200x me was concerned.  Dynamite's big argument basically boiled down to "Dibiase didn't wrestle heelishly enough." Over time I've come to believe....

Dynamite was right! Ted Dibiase as an in ring wrestler in WWF really isn't all that great. Oh, sure he's technically adept. He hits all his moves just the way you're supposed to. Real textbook stuff. He had the true excellence of execution. He's also a good bumper. But there's no fire behind it....no passion....no heeling. In interviews, he's an all time great dick. But as a wrestler he's like an 80s Dean Malenko with infinitely less cool moves (though still pretty damn cool by late 80s standards, it must be said). Or to put it another way....I'm not very likely to ever again seek out a WWF Ted Dibiase match. Nor is there a single one I recall being exceptionally good. And he had a 6 year WWF career! That was a long time for back then. Ultimate Warrior SMOKES Dibiase in memorable WWF matches. And The Warrior supposedly "sucks!" 

Dibiase did hit all his moves just the way you're supposed to. He still has the best classic powerslam of the 80s (and probably 90s too). I liked his Diving Elbow Bat~! Smackdown video game reference! I always gave that move to my personalized CAWs lol. My friends didn't get it. "Do some flips! Why so boring?" Here are the 2.5 things I want to see when watching a WWF Ted Dibiase match....

1. The aforementioned Powerslam
2. His GOAT fistdrop
2.5 Which one of his revolving door finishers he will use (1987/pre-Million Dollar Dream only)

Here we got the Powerslam. The finishers were a Funk Spinning Toe Hold, which I didn't remember, and the backwards elbow drop off the middle turnbuckle, which I did. But we got no fist drop! NO FIST DROP! Aye aye aye! Watching three Ted Dibiase matches with no fist drop is just wrong. That would be like watching three randomly selected Exosquad episodes and getting no Phaeton. Just a waste of time, really.

You know what else was cool about Ted Dibiase? The Million Dollar Belt. Duh. That is obvious. Also his theme. And his laugh. But what I REALLY wanted to write about before I thought of all those other cool Ted Dibiase things was when he would stuff $100 bills into the mouths of his opponents after putting them to sleep with The Million Dollar Dream. And then sometimes Virgil would take them out and pocket 'em for himself lol. Just classic stuff.

TL;DR- Dibiase ruled, but he could have ruled even harder had he heeled it up more in the ring. This is the big reason why I go JBL > Dibiase. Plus JBL actually won the big one while Dibiase did not. Although....Jack Tunney really was unfair in stripping Dibiase of the title the way he did. I mean, Dibiase told you what he was going to do. If it was illegal, why didn't Tunney warn him? I'll tell ya why! Because "Stooge" Tunney was in Hogan's pocket! That's why!

*Yeah, I drank while writing this post. A little at first. Then more and more and more and..... 

Mar 4, 2020 2:07:53 GMT Baker said:

*Pretty sure this is going to be the last entry for the foreseeable future. I really mean it this time! Stumbled upon a new Game of Thrones universe book the other day that I did not know existed. I'm only on page 74 out of 706. So I'll probably be spending the next few nights reading that. Then, if I'm in the mood, I might do a 1988 WWF thread. Or maybe 1987 Other Wrestling? I dunno yet. But either one would be waaaaay shorter than this monster thread. Speaking of monster threads, I couldn't leave 1987 behind for good until I wrote a little more about the iconic "Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase...

Ted Dibiase Tuesday

DiBiase was one of those 10-12 UWF wrestlers I remembered from watching the promotion in early 1987. He also holds the distinction of being only the 2nd wrestler I ever saw jump from a non-WWF promotion to WWF. It was a little weird at first to see good guy Ted Dibiase suddenly become an evil rich guy. But I explained it away in my in my head that he won the lottery and the money corrupted him. Or maybe my dad gave me the idea? Don't remember for sure. But "Ted Dibiase=lottery winner" was definitely a thing to 1987 me. 

I also had a lacrosse coach who was a dead ringer for Ted Dibiase. Think this would have been the next year, 1988. Or maybe even 1989. Now I was 99% sure Mr. Chris was not, in fact, "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase. But....maybe he could have been?

One day my brother and I must have been overheard discussing this by our eavesdropping father. And he would go on to set us up. That is my theory anyway. Later that day (or week) at lacrosse Mr. Chris said he had been away for a few days. My dad asked where he went. And Mr. Chris answered with *insert name of town WWF Superstars took place in that week.* My brother and I had to have stared at each other with our jaws agape. And that's it. That's the story of Mr. Chris=Ted Dibiase. It goes no further that I can remember. I tried finding a picture of Mr. Chris "Dibiase" from 30 years ago online but unsurprisingly came up empty. One day I really need to collect and digitize all those old photographs.

ANYWAY, Bruce Prichard told a cool story on his podcast about how his real life good friend Ted Dibiase did not initially receive the white hot heat the gimmick was intended to garner. But before I go any further I highly recommend Bruce & Conrad's podcast on Dibiase. I posted the video a page or two back. You guys should check it out. So Vince's dream gimmick was working out ok, but it wasn't this huge thing yet. The people viewed him more as a lovable rogue than a massive dick. Like "Yeah, he's a jerk, but he DOES pay out. Hell. I'd do x for $xxx too!" Proving Dibiase's "Everybody Has A Price" mantra was accurate all along?

So Vince comes up with this genius concept- "What if he doesn't pay out?" By Bruce's own admission, they initially forgot what makes a heel a HEEL- "Heels lie, cheat, and steal."- Bruce Prichard

This all lead to the legendary "basketball" segment where a young boy was asked to dribble a basketball 15 times for $xxx. After the 14th dribble, Dibiase kicks the ball away. The kid is about to cry. The people are booing like crazy. Dibiase says "If you don't do the job, you don't get paid. *insert iconic Million Dollar Man laugh*" From that moment on, Dibiase had nuclear heat with the people. And the rest is history. 

Even I, Million Dollar Man fan from Day One, was like "Oh, no he didn't. That is MESSED UP." And it was. Guarantee you nearly every wrestling fan of that era remembers this segment. It's just one of those memorable things that burned itself into the brains of 1980s America's impressionable youth. All the Million Dollar Man vignettes were top notch. But this is THE iconic MDM moment. (Fwiw the kid did get paid and taken backstage to meet the wrestlers. But this all happened off camera. Would love to see the kid appear on some podcast as a grown up adult to talk about that segment.)

My anti-Dibiase stint lasted....I dunno....5 minutes? 2 more segments? Maybe a week? Something like that. Because I was back to being all in on the Million Dollar Man the second he started beefing with Hogan.
==========================
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. Lanny Poffo- Wrestling Challenge 9/12/87
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. SD Jones- Superstars 9/19/87
Ted Dibiase w/ Virgil vs. Sivi Afi- Wrestling Challenge 12/26/87
*Or Ted Dibiase runs through the top tier of babyface jobbers.

Poffo cut an above average poem and got in the most offense of any jobber in this trilogy before succumbing to the old Funk Spinning Toe Hold(!). 

I feel like SD "Special Delivery" Jones was starting to wind down by the time I began to watch wrestling. I don't actually know this, but I've always been of the belief that Jones was the top babyface jobber just before I started to watch. Like if a good guy jobber was going to get a win, it was most likely to be SD. He was at Wrestlemania II, dammit! He had an LJN figure! And a good one too! (perfectly shaped for punches, chokeslams, Rock Bottoms, and powerslams due to the design of his arms and hands) 

So I was excited to see some SD. But spent most of the match unimpressed. SD just stood there like a slug while Dibiase ran around the ring like a madman in an attempt to create excitement. But then SD runs his shoulder full force into the turnbuckle! So....I still don't know whether SD is any good or not. Anyway, he goes down to a backwards elbow drop off the middle rope.

And finally Sivi Afi. Here is a guy I do not remember at all from my real time viewing, though I surely must have seen him on a near-weekly basis. Yet my first Sivi Afi memory can only be traced back to when I initially got online in the late 90s. His name would often come up as an example of "Evil Vince" or as a cautionary tale of what happens when a blatant ripoff replaces a star. The story goes Sivi Afi was going to become the Next Jimmy Snuka. Vince allegedly promised him big things. But first Sivi Afi had to go and tattoo his entire upper body. Sivi Afi did as he was told. And he was pushed!.....for about a month. Then Vince lost interest. And the tattoo clad Snuka ripoff was jobbed out so much that he became an actual jobber rather than even a Holly/Aldo style jobber to the stars. That's the story anyway.....

But I watch this match and see NO TATTOOS! So I don't know what to believe anymore. Here he is also more like a Baby Haku than a Snuka clone. 

Basic squash action with Dibiase once again scoring the victory with his backwards elbow drop off the middle rope.

Most interesting thing about the Afi match was it took place just after Hogan rejected Dibiase's offer to buy the WWF Championship. Let's talk about that....
===========================
Dibiase's big storyline came a few months into his WWF career when he tried to buy the WWF Championship from Hogan. Hogan refused with his trademark big "YES!" Things escalated from there. Dibiase purchased the contract of Andre the Giant from Bobby Heenan. Andre was to be Dibiase's hitman of sorts. The plan was for Andre to take the title from Hogan and give it to Dibiase. And that's exactly what happened! When Andre defeated Hulk Hogan in front of a US record that will never be broken 33 million viewers with the help of an evil twin referee who received plastic surgery, also paid for by Dibiase. Fwiw this was my all time favorite match for close to 9 years. It was also the most watched match of my childhood. Anyway, these events lead directly to the tournament at Wrestlemania IV, which lead directly to Wrestlemania V. So, yeah, Dibiase trying to buy the belt from Hogan was a VERY important storyline. Honestly, I could easily make a strong case for it being a top 5 storyline in company history. But let's get back to December 1987.....

Dibiase is wicked pissed because Hogan just rejected his offer, right? Well, you wouldn't know it by his wrestling. He wrestled the same way he always did as a WWF heel- technically adept, but without fire. 

Dibiase was one of those sacred cows in my first half decade on the internet. Everybody loved him (at least in hindsight) and he was beyond criticism. A first ballot Hall of Famer/all time great for sure. The first time I ever saw anybody criticize Dibiase was in Dynamite Kid's book where Kid rated him a ridiculous 5/10 (or something very close). This got my dander up. "How DARE Dynamite Kid ONLY give the GREAT Ted Dibiase a 5/10!" Dynamite's ratings were a little odd throughout that book. He rated his good friend Jim Duggan ridiculous high as far as 200x me was concerned.  Dynamite's big argument basically boiled down to "Dibiase didn't wrestle heelishly enough." Over time I've come to believe....

Dynamite was right! Ted Dibiase as an in ring wrestler in WWF really isn't all that great. Oh, sure he's technically adept. He hits all his moves just the way you're supposed to. Real textbook stuff. He had the true excellence of execution. He's also a good bumper. But there's no fire behind it....no passion....no heeling. In interviews, he's an all time great dick. But as a wrestler he's like an 80s Dean Malenko with infinitely less cool moves (though still pretty damn cool by late 80s standards, it must be said). Or to put it another way....I'm not very likely to ever seek out a WWF Ted Dibiase match. Nor is there a single one I recall being exceptionally good. And he had a 6 year WWF career! That was a long time for back then. Ultimate Warrior SMOKES Dibiase in memorable WWF matches. And The Warrior supposedly "sucks!" 

Dibiase did hit all his moves just the way you're supposed to. He still has the best classic powerslam of the 80s (and probably 90s too). I liked his Diving Elbow Bat~! Smackdown video game reference! I always gave that move to my personalized CAWs lol. My friends didn't get it. "Do some flips! Why so boring?" Here are the 2.5 things I want to see when watching a WWF Ted Dibiase match....

1. The aforementioned Powerslam
2. His GOAT fistdrop
2.5 Which one of his revolving door finishers he will use (1987/pre-Million Dollar Dream only)

Here we got the Powerslam. The finishers were a Funk Spinning Toe Hold, which I didn't remember, and the backwards elbow drop off the middle turnbuckle, which I did. But we got no fist drop! NO FIST DROP! Aye aye aye! Watching three Ted Dibiase matches with no fist drop is just wrong. That would be like watching three randomly selected Exosquad episodes and getting no Phaeton. Just a waste of time, really.

You know what else was cool about Ted Dibiase? The Million Dollar Belt. Duh. That is obvious. Also his theme. And his laugh. But what I REALLY wanted to write about before I thought of all those other cool Ted Dibiase things was when he would stuff $100 bills into the mouths of his opponents after putting them to sleep with The Million Dollar Dream. And then sometimes Virgil would take them out and pocket 'em for himself lol. Just classic stuff.

TL;DR- Dibiase ruled, but he could have ruled even harder had he heeled it up more in the ring. This is the big reason why I go JBL > Dibiase. Plus JBL actually won the big one while Dibiase did not. Although....Jack Tunney really was unfair in stripping Dibiase of the title the way he did. I mean, Dibiase told you what he was going to do. If it was illegal, why didn't Tunney warn him? I'll tell ya why! Because "Stooge" Tunney was in Hogan's pocket! That's why!

*Yeah, I drank while writing this post. A little at first. Then more and more and more and..... 

Funny you mention the possibility of Ted being your lacrosse coach. To add on to the Honky Tonk Man discussion I listened to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff and apparently HTM was a phys-ed teacher at the time Bisch hired him in 1994. To quote Eric "Imagine him as your kid's phys-ed teacher, I would move to a different district!"

Your summary of DiBiase being by the numbers in the ring hits the nail on the head why he was never a favorite of mine, even when I warmed up to heels in the late 80's. 

Baker-man pulling a Muscle Bottoms with the drinking post is a blast! Totally agree on the passionless in-ring being DiBiase's biggest drawback. Second was his soft body. But everything else? So good.

Such a great post to end this on, but I not so secretly hope it's not the end.

Mar 4, 2020 3:23:28 GMT 🤯 said:

Baker -man pulling a Muscle Bottoms with the drinking post is a blast! Totally agree on the passionless in-ring being DiBiase's biggest drawback. Second was his soft body. But everything else? So good.

Such a great post to end this on, but I not so secretly hope it's not the end.

Well, Jake The Snake was pencil thin but was infinitely more interesting Trillionare Ted both on the mic and in the ring. Ted was great on the mic but Jake was a level or two above.

Also on SD Jones, he not only had one but two LJN's. Serviceable I guess in the ring but I never really paid attention to jobbers back then. I was more interested in how they were going to be disposed of. He made the heel's offense look good more often than not, he gets a pass from me.

While I didn't think of DiBiase as "not heel enough" terms as a wrestler yet, I did have the realization in the late 90s that his matches kind of sucked, which was a bummer because I had a soft spot for DiBiase. It's weird because he is so technically proficient, but it all added up less than the sum of its parts (The Randy Orton of his era! as a wrestler. he smoked Randy as a personality obv). I guess his psychology or creativity in creating matches was just NOT GOOD. Some of this was restraints of his era (and territory since he apparently had better matches in the midsouth), but I just think he wasn't a great wrestler as a heel. Man, when you watch a WWF event from that era, the DiBiase matches are always a bit of a chore.

Since I feel dirty (mildly) roasting DiBiase, shout out to his bodyslam of Big Bossman on the floor at Wrestlemania 6, one of the first holy shit moments of my life as a wrestling fan. It was so out of character for the time. Big men were still protected from getting slammed with the exceptions of Hogan/Warrior types to make them see superhuman, this skinny heel doing it to Bossman, AND ON THE FLOOR, was one of the coolest things I had ever seen.

My SD Jones praise is simply his sunset flip in the beginning of the Coliseum Video intros, which I regarded as the GOAT sunset flip for many years. It was just so smooth. And I had seen it hundreds of times. SD Jones special delivery was that goddamn sunset flip.

Hercules w/ Bobby Heenan vs. Billy Jack Haynes- WRESTLEMANIA III- BATTLE OF THE FULL NELSON

I tried to be a man of word. But the project just felt incomplete without covering this. Truth is I've been wanting to watch and review this match for at least a week. Yes, Hercules vs. Billy Jack Haynes. The must see match of 2020!    I glimpsed most of the build during this project. Pete did a nice little writeup. In the end, I caved.

You know what's cool? Those motorized ring carts the wrestlers rode to the ring on at WM 3. But you knew that already. How have they never been brought back?!? EVERYBODY loves those things. Yo, Vince! You want me to ever watch a Wrestlemania again? Well, all you gotta do is bring back the motorized ring carts.

The atmosphere is of course fabulous for this match, as it was for this entire show. A sea of people as far as the eye can see. Brightness. The massive crowd booing Herc, chanting "WEASEL" at Bobby, and cheering Billy Jack.

There's an alternate universe where these two set aside their differences and became partners. They share so many similarities. Both are jacked guys with beards and thick heads of hair who specialize in the Full Nelson. The H & H Connection totally should have been a thing.

Herc cuts a pre-match promo where he thinks he is THE Hercules! OK, so he botches pretty much every detail. But who cares! You can even kayfabe it away as the delusions of a guy who thinks he's THE Hercules.  Herc's stock continues to rise in my book. Here are three reasons why....

1. Throws the hardest clotheslines in 1987 WWF

2. Thinks he is THE Hercules. As in the ancient Greek hero/demigod. That's awesome! Somehow I did not remember this beyond one edition of WWF Magazine from 1987 that I didn't even acquire until 95-96. Fwiw I'm pretty sure this particular 'zine was one of those WWF Superstar profiles Shootist mentioned a few posts back.

3. Epic theme music that you could slip into Bernard Herrmann's Jason and the Argonauts score and it would fit right in. OK, so Herc's theme came a few years after 1987. But somehow I did not remember this either. See, a few years ago my brother and I would occasionally play Name That Tune, but with wrestling themes. I was predictably amazing at this, often going on successful streaks of 30+. But Herc stumped me. "That's not a wrestling theme! That's the blueprint for Benito Santino's backyard baseball theme!" (long story) Anyway, I stupidly guessed early Faarooq. This is stupid because Faarooq's theme debuted in the summer of 1996, while Benito Santiago's backyard baseball song existed before June 1990. Anyway, how did I not remember Herc's epic theme? And while it's true "The Mighty" Hercules reached his peak popularity with me during this very period, how did he only top out at a pedestrian 5/10? Should have been higher. Sometimes I am wrong. I'm not afraid to admit this. My decades long dismissal of Herc is one of those times.

Let's talk about how great the Wrestlemania III card layout was. I think Strobe already covered this. But let's do it again. The handful of filler matches were strategically placed in between the big matches to give the massive crowd a chance to catch their breath. The show kicked off with an energetic, fast paced (by 1987 standards) pure face vs. heel tag match with the good guys going over. That's immediately followed by this heated hoss fight. Really the perfect 2nd match on a long show. I could go on about the greatness of this layout for a while, but I just want to get to the damn match.
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This is once again the kind of wrestling I miss. Here is a match that knows it's role. It's not setting out to reinvent the wheel. It's just a good, solid meat and potatoes hoss fight between a clear face and a clear heel with a clear issue. Haynes hits a genuinely impressive press slam early. Herc would later retaliate with a less impressive press slam of his own. Herc scores big with his best-in-the-fed clothesline early in the match. Haynes sells it well....Or is legit knocked loopy. BJH also sells the back while Herc works said back over with 80s power stuff like a body slam, suplex, and backbreaker. Then the Full Nelson comes into play. Herc looks for the hold first. But he can't quite lock his fingers. So Haynes manages to survive. BJH would later lock Herc in his own Full Nelson after scoring with some power offense of his own. But now it's Haynes who cannot quite lock the fingers. So the Full Nelson isn't being killed as a finisher here since neither man managed to properly cinch it in. There's a cool spot that I remembered for 33 years where both men tumble to the floor out of BJH's Nelson. But BJH quickly reapplies the hold! And this time the fingers are locked! But they're on the floor. So both men get counted out. Finish honestly made BJH look like a dummy. BUT I guess you could justify it as BJH hated Herc so much that the outcome became irrelevant. Haynes just wanted to punish his nemesis.

Heenan once again shows a surprising amount of guts by attacking BJH immediately after the bell rings to signal the double countout. Bobby's blows have no effect. BJH chases Bobby around for a little while until Haynes runs into a recovered Herc. Now we get the most memorable part of the match. Herc drills BJH with his trademark chain! And again! And maybe a third time too (I forget). BJH is wearing the crimson mask! It may technically go down in the record books as a draw, but Herc has clearly won the battle by drawing first blood. The feud must continue!

OK, so it's a little weird that the only match to have blood at Wrestlemania III would be the 2nd bout of the evening. And the blood didn't even come into play until the match was over! Sucks for BJH. I can also understand why people would be upset that a WRESTLEMANIA match ended in a cheap finish to further their house show program, but that's just how the business operated at that time. Truth be told, I don't really like it either. Those kind of finishes don't age well, and were honestly pretty garbage even in real time.

Verdict- **1/2