May 29, 2020 16:02:58 GMT Emperor said:

I'm shocked that Randy Orton is as high as he is, given how he was the IWC's least favourite wrestler for many, many years. They seem to have cooled off on him recently, but I rarely see love thrown his way either.

I'm also shocked that Hogan is only #33. Figured he'd have a good shot at the Top 25, if not Top 20.

I can't stand Hogan.  Even as a kid when you were supposed to like him, I didn't.  I'd take Macho Man over Hogan every day and twice on Sundays.

I can't negate the influence he had or the larger than life character he created that transcended wrestling, but he just never struck a chord with me.  I was never a fan of his in ring stuff and frankly I find him overrated and up his own ass most of the time.

Asuka: Being as high as she is, over many certified greats and legends is the stuff that gives me life. She is probably the only joshi girl I have ever went out of my way to watch. I used to download Smash episodes (Tajiri's promotion) just to watch random Kana stuff. Why else would I give a crap about a Serena match? I soured a bit on her in NXT because she held the title for so long and had many chances to put someone over and then gave up the belt. Lame. But then her stuff teaming with Miz and even in a losing effort to Charlotte produced an amazing match following an awesome Rumble win. Plus she has this knack for winning TLC like matches. And this is all without even mentioning the Kabuki Warriors. She's just great. HHH didn't want her on the main roster supposedly because "I need her". No you big nosed fuck, WE need her.

Joe: Was never a big fan of him. I understand the appeal. I get everything about him, but I was just never on board. Plus you ain't worthy of the Godzilla theme. Get outta my sight.

RKO: This guy shoulda been so much more. Truly the wrestling business' answer to the "blueprint" when creating a guy. But he's never motivated so it's a waste. I like a lot of his pre-voices hyped matches for sure. He's another one of those guys I like the idea of more than anything. Usually that's a Japan thing.

Hogan: Not surprised he isn't higher. Why would he be? Other than @theboss how many people can honestly cite Hogan as a real favorite? Factor in he hasn't been active in years and the recent sex tape/racist remarks and yeah. He's part of a lot of favorite matches and this is HOW, but come on. Give him credit for fucking over Shawn at Summerslam in a nice bit of irony. Fuck your best of 3 series, Hogan whipped dat ass!

Why would he be higher? Because he's Hulk freakin' Hogan, the greatest wrestler ever to lace up a pair of boots, according to many. Greatest babyface ever and greatest heel ever, according to many.

I’m actually a little surprised he’s this high if I’m being honest.

Recent personal life aside, he’s been an afterthought in most drafts in recent years. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but I’d be surprised to see where he’s been picked. Feels like he isn’t even a top 20 pick anymore.

I'm the opposite of jTjohncenaGOAT here. This batch might as well have been called "Three guys I usually rooted against....Plus Asuka."

Asuka- Have seen a whopping one match. It was a tag match. It was a good match. And Asuka was the best person in the match. She hit hard and had charisma. Reminded me of Tajiri, which is always a good thing.
===================
Randy Orton- The King of Slow Style. You'd think he might appeal to me for "old school" or "heel" reasons. You'd be wrong. Old school does not mean boring and I prefer my heels to have a personality. The only time I ever liked Orton was when he was a goofy midcard heel doing the RNN gimmick. Aside from that, he's mostly rubbed me the wrong way. Couldn't stand him as the cocky young punk in Evolution. Couldn't stand him as the "psycho." Couldn't stand him as....anything else either. 

That's not to say he's all bad. He does have some classic matches on his resume. Although, given his opportunities, probably not as many as he should. Which is why it's not always a good idea to judge wrestlers simply on their volume of good matches. Some simply get more opportunities than others. Anyway, the Foley feud was great stuff. Probably the best thing Orton ever did to be honest. I was into it in that old school "it's still real to me" sort of way. Their Backlash match is the GOAT Orton match and a legit classic. I am also a huge fan of Orton's Survivor Series 2007 match with Michaels. He had a bunch of good bouts with the likes of Taker, Benoit, Edge, Christian, and HHH (well, about 1 out of 25 in Hunter's case) as well. Plus a bunch of good tags and multi-man gimmick matches. 

I also liked how early Orton was the only wrestler.....ever(?) to actually make the chinlock look good. But he soon went from "the only guy to ever do a good chinlock" to "the boring guy who only ever does chinlocks." And I guess we should credit him with making the "RKO outta nowhere!" a thing. 

With that being said, there is no way Orton cracks my Top 500.
===================
Samoa Joe- I'm with @ness on this one. I'm definitely a Samoa Joe respecter. Prime Samoa Joe was great. He was probably the best wrestler going in 2004-2005. His 21 month ROH Championship run is legendary. I had it at #3 when we did our Greatest Title Reigns Countdown a few years back. His long undefeated streak in TNA? Also legendary. He had a ton of good/great matches. Not since mid 80s Ric Flair did a guy have so many good/great matches in multiple promotions at the same time. I also saw Joe wrestle live a whole bunch of times. Yet I rooted against him like 98% of the time.

Part of it was my usual "root against the top guy" assholery. Another factor was just simply wanting to be a part of history in seeing Joe's epic reign come to an end. And some of it was due to Joe being a popular babyface who also happened to be a jerk. Kind of like Hulk Hogan, actually.

If I had to come up with a list of my favorite ROH matches, Joe would be in more than anybody. He'd also probably have the 2nd most appearances on my list of favorite TNA matches. And he'd probably be #1 on a list of my favorite Other Indie matches, too. Joe was involved in my favorite singles match for a ton of different wrestlers (Jay Briscoe, Lethal, Aries, Sabin, Strong, Necro Butcher, Hero, probably Bryan). He was also in many of the best live matches I ever saw, with the epic Joe/Aries title change from Final Battle 2004 being THE greatest match I ever saw live. The Joe/Angle feud created probably the most buzz TNA ever got. It's likely either that or the Joe/Daniels/AJ 3 Way, which also involved Samoa Joe.

But after his run as THE guy in alternative wrestling he just sort of drifted aimlessly for years. I am glad he eventually got a big WWE run. Dude deserved it.

Also, Samoa Joe is one of the all time worst ring names. It would be like if we had a posters named Australia Pete or America Jeff. Samoan Joe would have still been bad, but better than Samoa Joe. He also wore those ugly...trights? I don't even know what to call those things. But they were ugly. 

Still, he was the closest thing we've had to a Vader since the actual Vader. And I wouldn't even argue if somebody rated prime Samoa Joe above Vader.
========================
Hulk Hogan I will cover in depth either later tonight or tomorrow. Emperor I wasn't surprised by Hogan's relatively low finish simply because he finished a disappointing #36 the last time we did this (He actually jumped 3 spots from last time!).  Plus Hogan has never been all that popular online. Plus plus his prime was a long time ago now. Plus plus plus he's had a lot out of outside the ring stuff that have soured people on him. 

It took Hogan a long time to get going in the voting stage. At one point I was worried about him cracking the Top 100. PW eventually came through. But he still only finished with 5 votes. For the sake of comparison, #148 Kofi Kingston also had 5 votes. What this means is the people who like Hogan really like him. 

May 29, 2020 23:59:43 GMT RT said:

I’m actually a little surprised he’s this high if I’m being honest.

I forgot where I was

Thought you were talking about me

For a second

Hulk Hogan- Was my least favorite wrestler of all time for like a quarter century and it wasn't even close. Couldn't stand him. The very first wrestling match I ever saw was Hogan vs. Orndorff in a cage on SNME. I rooted for Orndorff because I felt sorry for him. "Why are all those people booing that poor man? What did he ever do to them? What did Hulk Hogan ever do for me? I am going to root for the poor man getting booed!" And that is how I initially became a heel fan.

So I always rooted against Hogan. In time I had "better" reasons for being a Hogan hater. He (almost) always won! BORING! I hated his stupid Hulk Ups. Hated his stupid post match posing routine. Hated his stupid finger pointing and walrus face. Hated his stupid leg drop finisher. Hated how he always cheated and got away with it despite being a so-called good guy. I also tended to find his opponents more interesting.

As I grew older and "smartened up" (debatable)  I grew to loathe Hogan even more. By the mid 90s he was an "old guy" and a "sell out" who "couldn't wrestle" and used his political power to prevent other wrestlers from ever overshadowing him. "Won't somebody please think of the Croozerwaits!"- mid-late 90s Baker

The first wrestling I ever CHOSE not to watch was 94-95 WCW. Because of Hogan. Then I went off WCW FOR-EV-ER in August 96. Also because of Hogan. The only thing worse than Hulk Hogan as a good guy was Hulk Hogan as a bad guy.

Hated his 2002 WWF return. Hated how the stupid WWF commentators, wrestlers, and fanbase suddenly embraced this geriatric hack after spending the better part of a decade mocking him. Didn't like any of his other WWE comebacks either. Because it's Hulk Hogan. And Hulk Hogan is the worst.

Until at least 2009 I was one of those assholes who refused to give Hulk Hogan credit for ANYTHING. I remember around 2003 I came up with my list of the greatest wrestlers of all time. I put a lot of time and effort into this....and had Hulk Hogan in the 30s. Which is just absurd. I may have even done the anti-Hogan shtick early on in my PW career. Can't remember for sure.

But I've mellowed out a lot in my old age. I don't really hate any wrestlers nowadays. Sure, tons of wrestlers annoy me. Probably more now than ever before given my dislike of most modern wrestling. But I don't loathe any of them with the passion I had back in the day. OK. Fine. Maybe CM Punk. But aside from him....? 

I've come around enough to be a huge Hogan respecter. Much of this was chronicled in my look at 1987 WWF. As luck would have it, a lot of that pro-Hogan posting is in the very first post on the page I am linking to....
pwcom.proboards.com/thread/2783/1987-wwf?page=2

Basically, a lot of things I took for granted as a kid have become more impressive with the passage of time. There will never be another Hulk Hogan. He changed the game in the 80s. Then he changed the game again in the 90s. Even in real time I was painfully aware of this. It made it harder and harder to spin my "Ric Flair=GOAT" narrative. Which of course made me loathe Hack Hogan all the more  :lol: There will never be another wrestler who got the long term YEARS of love Hulk Hogan got from fans in his heyday. Nor do I think there will ever be another wrestler to cross over into the mainstream the way Hulk Hogan did. Practically every American knew who Hulk Hogan was. I once even saw somebody say Hulk Hogan had a higher Q Rating than MICHAEL JORDAN. No idea if that's true or not, but just the fact that it could believably be true is a feather in the Hulkster's cap.

"Good matches" are a subjective and overrated metric. What really matters is connecting with crowds-making them love or hate you- and drawing dimes. These are objective things which can be measured. And Hulk Hogan excels here. 

Whether you want to admit it or not, Hulk Hogan (and Vince to be fair) are directly or indirectly responsible for at least 95% of us being here. Why? It's simple. Most of us came to wrestling through WWF/E. And WWF/E is The House That Hogan Built. 

His lists of famous feuds, matches, and angles are long and legendary. I won't even get started because I might never stop. I could also write a whole lot, both good and bad, about his exploits outside of the ring. Again, I won't even begin. 

For these reasons, and probably a few others I'm forgetting, I will no longer argue if anyone wants to call Hogan the GOAT. Hell, I'd probably do so myself 2 days out of 7. My days of idiocy are thankfully long behind me (at least when it comes to the wrestling). 

Though, if pressed, I'd still have to call Hulk Hogan my least favorite wrestler of all time. Grudging late life respect doesn't erase all those years of Hogan-induced misery.

May 30, 2020 2:18:03 GMT Baker said:

Hated his 2002 WWF return. Hated how the stupid WWF commentators, wrestlers, and fanbase suddenly embraced this geriatric hack after spending the better part of a decade mocking him. Didn't like any of his other WWE comebacks either. Because it's Hulk Hogan. And Hulk Hogan is the worst.

Love this. They did the same thing to Warrior when he came back. "Couldn't wait to fire him" but now you're on your knees. LOL. :drool:

May 30, 2020 2:20:44 GMT @ness said:

May 30, 2020 2:18:03 GMT Baker said:

Hated his 2002 WWF return. Hated how the stupid WWF commentators, wrestlers, and fanbase suddenly embraced this geriatric hack after spending the better part of a decade mocking him. Didn't like any of his other WWE comebacks either. Because it's Hulk Hogan. And Hulk Hogan is the worst.

Love this. They did the same thing to Warrior when he came back. "Couldn't wait to fire him" but now you're on your knees. LOL. :drool:

You talking about 1996?

May 30, 2020 2:41:17 GMT 🤯 said:

May 30, 2020 2:20:44 GMT @ness said:

Love this. They did the same thing to Warrior when he came back. "Couldn't wait to fire him" but now you're on your knees. LOL.

You talking about 1996?

Remember when they made the DVD where they shit on him? And he was blackballed for so long. Then the HOF came and suddenly they were eager beavers.

Was Warrior 2002 Hogan level over when he came back in 1996 though?

Was he even 1992 Warrior level over?

I get the impression he wasn't. Not even close. But maybe business was just way down.

Because of Shawn.

May 30, 2020 2:49:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Was Warrior 2002 Hogan level over when he came back in 1996 though?

Was he even 1992 Warrior level over?

I get the impression he wasn't. Not even close. But maybe business was just way down.

Because of Shawn.

Both returns resulted in HHH jobbing to them, so they had that going at least.

HHH vs. Warrior @ WM12 > HHH vs. Hogan @ Backlash 2002

May 30, 2020 2:49:04 GMT 🤯 said:

Was Warrior 2002 Hogan level over when he came back in 1996 though?

Was he even 1992 Warrior level over?

I get the impression he wasn't. Not even close. But maybe business was just way down.

Not 2002 Hogan level over.
Probably not even 1992 Warrior level over.

But I did think he was over. There was definitely buzz around Warrior. I know my friends were hyped. And I still considered Warrior the 2nd biggest star of the modern era. I thought I was in for a long few years with not one, not two, but THREE unbeatable superman babyfaces in Michaels, Warrior, and Ahmed ruining my beloved WWF. 

@admin I usually hate giving spoilers here but I'll make an exception this one time. Asuka is indeed the highest ranked female competitor.

Next batch of 2 (take that @ness) will be posted before I go to sleep tonight.

Whoa...

All boyz here on out

Asuka wins. No Charlotte?

May 30, 2020 3:07:59 GMT @ness said:

Asuka wins. No Charlotte?

Charlotte finished just outside the Top 100.

#28 Ricky Steamboat
7 Votes-212 Points
High Vote: #4
Last Time: #38



#29 Vader
9 Votes-211 Points
High Vote: #5
Last Time: #27

Steamboat: I never really gave him much attention. He's the armdrag (remember user @amdrag ?) to Okada's dropkick. But I do love WM3. Had a friend in the early 2000s that hated him and always asked me why people loved him complete with "who'd he ever beat?" - which was such a dumb thing to say. Ummm, Flair and Savage? Two all-time greats.

Vader: Shawn killed him for me. I can never see him in any capacity and not think of MOVE! :whip: . Love that he was canon on Boy Meets World though. Pinnacle of wrestling cameos. Yes including Captain Insano.

Jesus, I should have done my Rude and Matt write-ups when I had the chance. With these heavy hitters Mattitude is going to have to fall by the wayside. I'll just say I did like his Broken stuff, Mattitude and Version 2.0 runs. As fun as the Broken Universe was it really is a microcosm of what wrestling has become, too niche to gain any real mainstream momentum. Plus on the other hand I hated his never ending feud with MVP, they always brought Smackdown to a halt with their middling, not terrible but not good matches.

4. Ricky Steamboat

A man who hardly ever had middling or boring matches was Ricky Steamboat. His cool Bruce Lee vibe, all black attire and crisp in ring work made him an instant favorite when he came into the WWF in 1985. He made the hybrid martial arts/pro style that I usually hate also seem cool and dangerous, mostly keeping to those "illegal" (per Jesse Ventura) chops to the throat and not silly kicks and over the top mannerisms. He was also a great seller, I really thought he was near death as a youngster when Savage attacked him with the ring bell and his leg looked like rubber in his 2/3 falls match with Flair, just outstanding. His matches with Savage and Flair are some of the best matches you will ever see on this side of the pond and he went strong into the 90's having classics with Rick Rude and Steve Austin. His use of the false finish didn't feel like spam at all and felt more organic and a true strategy to get the win by any means necessary. What also puts him so high on my list was that he stands out as one of the few who didn't switch face to heel or vice versa in his career. He was consistent and always reliable, too bad his back wasn't and he couldn't have had a few more great years. It was astonishing to see him keep pace with Jericho in the 2009 comeback. It really gave a true sense of his greatness and one of the true few who deserved the "you still got it" chants.

Should've have done the video routine with my first top 10 appearance in Sting. Oh well, what's done is done.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

for the promo @9:40

5. Vader

I remember being so pleased with PW that he finished so high the first time now I'm disappointed he didn't move up on the list this time. Far and away the best working big man of all time, still some of my most cherished wrestling footage are the 18 volumes of VHS (tracking issues and all) that I have covering his career up until 2001. He could pound you into submission, fly and show vulnerability like few others. That's what made his matches with Sting, Flair and more recently looking back Dustin Rhodes so good. There was way more give and take then there should have been but yet coming out of these matches Vader still felt like a beast. He was an excellent promo as well being what he needed to be, a bully with some of the best taunts, just more or less having a very loud "bark." It was too bad that the timing was all messed up on his WWF run, needing the surgery right after they did the hot angle with Gorilla Monsoon. I even turned away from WCW for a fleeting moment to watch that attack, so awesome. Yet it all got pissed away when he came back with a pouty Shawn Michaels being an ass. He did get a bit of a spark when Taker was nice enough to lay down for him at the '97 Rumble and he had some good moments opposite The Hart Foundation in the fall. He then was used to enhance the new big guys like Kane, Mark Henry and Bradshaw which was so disappointing to see. He got his mojo back with All Japan having classics with Misawa and Kobashi and showing he could still go into his mid 40's. Just think, Andre died at 46 and here was Vader going blow for blow with the best in the world at the time. Loved his appearance squashing Heath Slater in 2012 and his death in 2018 was obviously a big blow to me. At least he got his memoir finished which I am so looking forward to reading during my up coming vacation. 

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

16. Rick Rude

Rick Rude truly is the heel's heel. Right from the get go he puts his cool spin on badmouthing the crowd with his iconic "cut the music" and usually using great alliterations involving whatever town he was in to get under the skin of the audience. He just had all the tools with great selling, a focused offense that centered around the neck for his Rude Awakening and was a master on the mic. His airbrushed tights added another layer usually used in a braggadocios manner or to rile up his opponent and/or the crowd. Most everything he was involved in spare his retread feud with Warrior in 1990 was some of the best you could find in whatever promotion he was in dating back to the Lawler feud in 1984. WCW really should've pulled the trigger and made him champion when he was the crown jewel of the Dangerous Alliance. He and Madusa especially worked great together and it really says something that he was the top guy in the most talent laden stable of all time. It was a huge loss when he retired early but he had some great moment afterword like the aforementioned promo on Shane Douglas and sticking it to Vince and crew showing up on Nitro and Raw at the same time. It was another heavy blow when he passed in 1999.

Rude also never had a bad theme song:

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

Chris Benoit

As time goes on Chris Benoit becomes more and more like a black hole in the wrestling universe. I'm an ex-Stampede junky so obviously when he was riding high in WCW and the WWF he was my favorite wrestler for pretty much all of those years from 1995-2007. We all know why he was great in the ring but his actions outside of it leave him in that place no wrestler wants to be at least with me, with no real emotional reaction when he is brought up. Probably the recent watching of his two part Dark Side Of The Ring put him even further in that wrestling purgatory. As much of a Chris Benoit fan as I was I have no problem with how WWE handled the situation.

Samoa Joe

He's still one of the few that feels like a true bad ass. His career so mirrors Taz it's eerie right down to being managed by him at one point. I see WWE used him up real quick and is relegated to commentary just like his 90's counterpart too. He was so fun to watch and his feud with Kurt Angle is arguably the best in TNA history.

Randy Orton

I get the hate but I don't buy into it. To me he is old school methodical and has a certain charisma about him, especially in the last 10 years or so where you feel he is truly unhinged. WWE's most reliable and best heel over that time span in my estimation. Some may have been better but no one compares to the longevity and consistency Orton has shown over that span.

Hulk Hogan

As time goes on he gets closer and closer to making it back into my good graces and actually showing up on a future list. I'm the stereotype you always hear about, huge fan in the 80's only to turn on him in the early to mid 90's. Wrestlemania 18/the Raw after made my come nearly full circle on Hogan and appreciate his greatness, something that's only grown over the years. His charisma and being a worker in the truest sense is on a level that the most accomplished technicians could only dream of reaching. There will never be another Hulk Hogan and he's a lock as my greatest of all time.

Shootist nearly mirrors my sentiments except with regards to Hogan.

I ‘assume’ by your posts you are in Alberta. You ever take in any PWA shows?

Ricky Steamboat - Awesome technician and pure babyface but overall kind of boring when I go back to watch a bunch of his stuff. Great work but little connection for me.

Vader - One of , if not the best Super Heavyweight ever. Opposite of Steamboat for me in that I enjoy going back and watching Vaders work. Even WWF Vader had it's moments and he placed high on my list.

Rick Rude - Great heel. Some absolutely classic and legendary work on the mic and inciting crowds but again - not someone I would consider for my favorites ever.

Chris Benoit - Fuck this dude. Never even liked him before everything that happened.

Samoa Joe - Never liked him in TNA and thought he was overhyped. Still I seen some potential there and got excited when he came to the WWE where I still think he fell a little flat for me. He's shown some flashes since then though and his mic work has improved exponentially. Just a shame it came at a time when they have no clue what to do with anyone.

Randy Orton - The ultimate paper wrestler - everything looks great , he knows how to work a match and even a crowd but something always fails to completely connect and bring him to that truly elite level. The RKOOUTTANOWHERE was the best Randy has been but whether it be injuries or random heel turns and shitty booking he can never fully sustain a run IMO.

Hulk Hogan - I mean it's Hulk Hogan. He gets far too much shit on the internet from a ton of crowds and even me at times. Hulkamania was as intense and crazy as wrestling is ever going to get aside from maybe Austins run and he was one of the most famous PEOPLE on the planet. Even going back today , you still can't help but to fall into the phenomenon and appreciate such an anomaly. Was more of a Warrior guy when he came along but can't deny Hulk was awesome and the ultimate super hero. Even made room for him on my list despite me really thinking he WAS a basic ass heel in the nWo and that part of his career is definitely overrated.

Ricky Steamboat finished in the 110s on my big list. This first paragraph is a C&P job from my 200 Favorite Wrestlers thread....

Steamboat did not enthrall me as a youngster. Remember, I was predominately a heel fan. Steamboat was just a guy....a guy who retired in 1994. I didn't become a Steamboat fan until 95-96 when I watched his classic series with Flair. Due to the admittedly weird criteria I set for this list, Steamboat made it on the strength of his 2004 ROH run, where he feuded with the hated CM Punk, and his handful of 2009 appearances opposite Jericho. By the 2000s I was all in on cheering the legendary "Dragon."

My introduction to Steamboat came during his legendary feud with Randy Savage. The Steamboat/Savage rivalry is among my earliest wrestling memories, though I just missed seeing the initial incident in real time. I also just assumed Steamboat was hurt for real. Their WM 3 match was an instant classic due to the announcers constantly talking up the 21 nearfalls. Steamboat was arguably my old man's favorite wrestler (it was either him or Hogan). My dad would always pop for The Dragon's "skin the cat" spot.

I don't remember his feud with Flair from real time. I'm not even sure I knew it existed until they renewed their rivalry in 1994 and the WCW commentary team did a great job of putting over their history. I will say seeing "midcard for life" Ricky Steamboat listed as a former NWA Champion just bolstered my theory that WCW/NWA was a lesser promotion than my beloved WWF. Steamboat, Martel, Race, Garvin, Dusty...these guys were midcarders! 

For whatever reason, his nothing happening early 90s WWF run was my lasting memory of Steamboat for a long time. This is what solidified him in my eyes as a midcard guy for life.

It didn't help his cause that I wasn't even sure WCW still existed when he was their #2 babyface in 1992 due to a lack of WCW programming in my area.

By the time I came back to WCW in 1993 Steamboat had settled into his usual role as a midcard/upper midcard babyface, winning a few secondary titles, and coming up short in a few other title opportunities on Clashes and PPV. 

It was that big NWA tape binge in 95-96 where I finally became a Steamboat fan. Loved his matches with Flair. Even though I was a Flair guy, there was no turning back on Steamboat after he brought his son to the ring with him in an ADORABLE dragon outfit that my cousin and I thought was....ADORABLE.

It's too bad Steamboat had to retire young(ish) due to injuries. I can definitely see him becoming a Baker Guy had he stuck around until 95-96 due to getting a big time tape boost which now made him a "legend" in the eyes of my friends and I.

To piggyback what @ness said about his armdrags, his pet name on the internet back in the day was "The Armdragon" which was pretty clever.

Steamboat could go in the ring and is one of the all time great babyfaces....right up there with Big Daddy and SMW Tim Horner! Loved his 2000s appearances in ROH & WWE.

*Vader later. Then I'll probably drop a big standalone wrestler tonight. This one is gonna be good. Also, I get heat whether I go slow or fast  :lol:

Something just occurred to me that I need to share regarding Steamboat to a lesser extent. I stared at the chosen pic for a good 5 minutes just thinking about how everyone says he's a great, serviceable worker but boring on the character side. Just intensely staring at his picture and realizing it shines through even then. But then I realized something else, I've always gotten a big kick out of the post-win backstage posing with the belts. HHH kinda ruined that with his NXT point meme photos. Lots of companies do it as a tradition and I love it.

Really a big fan of this weird thing.

And goddamn the old IC belt was a thing of beauty.

May 30, 2020 6:19:39 GMT iron maiden said:

Shootist nearly mirrors my sentiments except with regards to Hogan.

I ‘assume’ by your posts you are in Alberta. You ever take in any PWA shows?

The song says it all, I'm about an hour away now from the city that's a part of trivia lore when it comes to Bret Hart. I did live in Saskatoon for 15 years before moving back closer to home last year.

31. Vader (#29)- So I had Vader on my list. Nothing weird about that. Only Vader made my list because of his WWF run. Now that IS weird. 

As best I can remember, my introduction to Vader came in January 1993. He had just recaptured the WCW Championship from Ron Simmons. I immediately bought into him as WCW's top guy because super heavyweights ruled wrestling and here was a 450 pound monster who was portrayed as this ultimate badass. I don't remember having any sort of strong like/dislike opinion on him though. Not until his awesome 2 match series with Cactus in April. I caught their first match in an extremely rare WCW Saturday Night viewing experience. Quite possibly the first of my life. Cactus won! They sold it as this huge thing. And set up a rematch for the following week. This time the match ended when Vader powerbombed Cactus on the floor! Everybody sold it huge. It was treated as a death blow. It was also just about the damnedest thing I had ever seen. I was all in on this feud. Team Cactus all the way! That Vader was a JERK and a BULLY! 

To pass the time until Cactus came back, Vader formed a team called The Masters of the Powerbomb with Sid and feuded with Bulldog & Sting. Here's where it gets weird. I couldn't stand that overgrown Cactus killing creep. I didn't like Sid either. Yet I loved the Masters of the Powerbomb. Told ya it was weird. They once tried to blow up Sting's boat! Plus there was a beach volleyball game. Sid wore flip flops. And an evil midget was involved. It was awesome. Trust me.

Cactus finally came back after being Lost In Cleveland (Ohio again....). Vader/Cactus was the most hyped I had been for a WCW match since at least Sting/Black Scorpion. Vader won  Then went on to feud with another Baker Guy in Ric Flair. Vader's legendary WCW Championship reign ended in a loss to Slick Ric at Starrcade 93 in what just so happens to be my favorite WCW match of the 90s.

The rest of Vader's WCW run is a blur. As I've hinted at, I wasn't really a Vader fan, and then I barely watched the promotion for a year+. Vader left the company around September 95 after picking a fight with a flip flop wearing Paul Orndorff and getting his big butt handed to him by Mr. Wonderful.

A perfect storm of events would cause Vader to be bigger in his absence than he had ever been when he was on tv every week. First I started reading the Apter Mags. They hyped him up huge as basically the GOAT super heavyweight. Then I started renting old WCW tapes, which is where I first saw the aforementioned Flair match. It immediately became one of my favorite matches of all time and would still likely crack my Top 10. Then he came to my beloved WWF....

As a member of my equally beloved Camp Cornette! I was all in on Vader even BEFORE he assaulted corrupt commissioner Gorilla Monsoon in one of the greatest markout moments....ever. That jerk Monsoon had it coming for a looooong time.  

People always rag on Vader's WWF run, but those first 7 months were awesome imo. At some point he surpassed Goldust to become my favorite wrestler. I was SUPER bummed out when he lost KOTR. See, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that he would win KOTR and go on to challenge Michaels at Summerslam. You know who was pissed when stupid Stone Cold won the 1996 KOTR? This guy! That's who. Ringmaster would have been acceptable though. But Vader was still killing it alongside his Camp Cornette buddies and he still earned his title shot at Summerslam after pinning Michaels(!) the previous month at IYH July. So whatever.

At last the big day was upon us. And with it, the 4-5 month nightmare I had been enduring was surely about to end. Summerslam 1996. Vader vs. Shawn. My favorite wrestler vs. my least favorite wrestler. The best big man in wrestling vs. the best overall wrestler in wrestling. Guaranteed MOTY now that Benoit/Malenko had flopped. This was like my Wrestlemania 30 with Vader as my Daniel Bryan. I was CONVINCED he was bringing home the gold. Then he lost. Imagine if Daniel Bryan had lost at WM 30. Yeah, that's how I felt. 

BUT Vader was given an out. The defeat was kind of wonky. Vader scored 2 technical victories before losing in the end. So surely there would be a rematch. Wrong! Stupid Sid ended up getting the shot at HBK after beating Vader in a MASTERS OF THE POWERBOMB EXPLODE match. And I was done with Vader when I saw him lose to Sid at a DC area house show in a laughably bad match a few weeks before Survivor Series 96. It was a Stretcher Match that ended in like 2 minutes when Sid clotheslined Vader over the top rope. Vader landed on the apron and gently rolled onto the stretcher. That was it. That's the match. 0 Stars. I could never take Vader seriously again after that.

Shootist mentioned Vader beating Taker at Royal Rumble. Yeah, I wasn't buying it. I just "knew" nothing was going to come from that. And it didn't. The ONE time I thought Vader could once again be somebody was during his awesome bloody performance in the Final 4 match at IYH February 97. Despite his heel status, the commentary team and even WWF Magazine put Vader over huge after that match. But, again, nothing ever came of it. Then they were teasing a renewal of the awesome Vader/Foley feud. But that never went anywhere either.

He eventually became "a big fat piece of shit" and put over a bunch of green hosses before going back to Japan where he once again found his mojo. Good for him. I rooted for the Big V from afar. Also wanted him show up in ECW during this time, but that sadly never came to pass.

At some point I went back and watched all the big WCW Vader stuff I had missed out on in the early 90s. His matches and feud with Sting are the stuff of legends. Right up there with Vader/Cactus and Vader/Flair as among the best stuff the company ever produced. Even though I know it's objectively the "wrong" answer, Vader is still the first guy I think of whenever WCW Champions are brought up.

Vader's early WCW stuff was always a mystery to me until Shootist clarified things a few years back. For decades I thought he was a 450 pound jobber to the stars before a super push OUTTA NOWHERE based on the ONE early WCW Vader match I saw- a loss to the Steiners at the January 92 Clash where teamed with Mr. Hughes and got thrown around like a 450 pound jabroni.

Final Thoughts- Depending on your cutoff point, Vader is either the best or 2nd best Super Heavyweight of all time. I loved the way he wrestled. He had kewl movez. He also had GOAT tier clubbering. He took awesome bumps for a big man as well. Too many bumps, to be honest. Even in real time I thought it was weird and dumb to see 1996 Vader get slammed and suplexed by every semi-competent WWF babyface. See, I had grown up on a steady diet of practically unslammable fatties. I say "practically" because only Hogan or Warrior could do the deed. But here's Vader getting tossed around by 230 pounders Bret & Shawn. Vader also carried himself like a badass. WCW did a much better job than WWF of promoting him as one. When I first encountered Vader they were always talking up his "greatest hits." He put more guys on the disabled list than elbow tendonitis.

Vader is also one of the most decorated wrestlers in history. He famously carried 3 different World Championship on 3 different continents at the same time. The Apter Mags were forever talking up this fact. He was also the first wrestler to capture the top titles in both New Japan and All Japan. I already covered his legendary run(s) as WCW champ. He succeeded everywhere except WWF. Which of course is where I grew to love the big lug. 

Always thought his dumb mask was stupid though. That ugly red thing he wore. Not the AWESOME Vader helmet he wore in Japan in WCW.

Old man Vader also deserves props for pissing off all the kids on Twitter when he shit on Ospreay & Ricochet's synchronized tumbling routine a few years back. Not gonna lie. Pissing off the Twitterati will always earn you points in my book. 

Oh, and Vader's Boy Meets World appearances were obviously great. 

*Vader mask pic and that mini-movie with the boat, midget, and flip flops in the spoiler section....

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}


Bah! Couldn't find a decent version of the mini-movie. So you'll have to settle for a slightly edited version from WWE.com.
www.wwe.com/videos/the-masters-of-the-powerbomb-crash-sting-the-british-bulldog-s-beach-party-beach-blast-july-18-1993

There are legends....



There are Hall of Famers....



And there are all time greats....



But there is one....



And only one....



WRESTLING GOD!!!



#27 JBL
8 Votes-212 Points
High Vote: #7
Last Time: #62

They said he couldn't wrestle...

They called him overpushed...

They even had the audacity to mock his moobs...

He smells like smoke because he has been through fire! 

Yet through it all, he persevered.

And he came out of it PW's 27th favorite wrestler of all time.

Not gonna lie. I don't think I have ever been prouder of the PW community. So I'd like to thank all you fine men and women of good taste. Sure, I was the high voter for THE WRESTLING GOD. But I could not do it alone. 7 other discerning recognizers of talent stepped up to propel THE WRESTLING GOD into the Top 30. Even without my high vote at #7, he still would have finished an impressive 38th. Directly above Trish, Tanahashi, Dibiase, Omega, Liger & Taz. What a murderer's row that is! 

Better than Dibiase. Better than Hansen. Even better than Larry Legend. JBL has finally become recognized as THE WRESTLING GOD he always claimed to be, and I always knew he was.

So I've been watching JBL/Bradshaw tribute videos on and off all day long. This is nothing new. I've already mentioned Larry Legend promos, Sandman's ECW return, and the Hart Foundation's Canadian Stampede entrance as my most watched wrestling videos of the past 7-8 years. Random JBL videos are right up there with that other classic stuff. So I'm going to share a bunch of these videos in the spoiler section....

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
This JBL tribute video with great ideas and poor execution is literally the first Youtube video I can ever remember watching. Yep. With the choice to watch practically everything that had ever been filmed (Youtube was a much freer place back in 2007) I chose to watch a tribute video to the Wrestling God. No regrets!



JBL's debuts the gimmick that made him a Wrestling God. THIS is how you cut a promo. I was all in from this moment on. And it just got better from here.



15 glorious minutes of Bradshaw clotheslines. You're welcome.



JBL spitting truth accompanied by highlight footage from the greatest WWE championship reign of the last 20 years.



This video is titled "JBL- Heart of Courage" 'Nuff said. 

May 27, 2020 18:13:00 GMT 🤯 said:

Reminders for myself for maybe later today (or who knows when)...

9 .) Chris Benoit
28 .) Matt Hardy

Adding to my reminder list...

22 .) John Bradshaw Layfield

JBL: In a complete 180 turn from Steamboat you have a guy who is meh in the ring but a great character. This was simply put the perfect time for this character. Allowed Vince to live out his Republican fantasies with a new-age Milliondollar Man gimmick. Big ass jump, but I also think as the years have gone by people have really started to take an appreciation for what he accomplished in that year. Going in a lot of us HATED the gimmick since he literally came outta nowhere from tag job guy to main eventer and went over a beloved IWC favorite in Eddy, ignoring of course it produced that Judgement Day match of course. Also doesn't help that a lot of guys people wanted on top got shoved aside and continued to sour us on the idea that "SD! is the land of opportunities".

It did create some bad though in that Heath Ledger Effect sorta way where certain segments of the fanbase excuse garbage like Mahal getting a monster push because "it worked with JBL", which is annoying because they all that does is fuel the fire if something happens once that it can happen again.