JBL was always meh in my books. His character work was pretty good but I never cared much for it.

Now throw in all the stuff we know about JBL backstage and how he treats people...wouldn’t sniff a top 100 list for me.

JBL at #27 is a far bigger shocker than Orton's or Hogan's placements.

His heel run on Smackdown was great, but still didn't consider him at all for my top 50.

May 31, 2020 12:27:21 GMT 🤯 said:

May 27, 2020 18:13:00 GMT 🤯 said:

Reminders for myself for maybe later today (or who knows when)...

9 .) Chris Benoit
28 .) Matt Hardy

Adding to my reminder list...

22 .) John Bradshaw Layfield

OK... Let's do this!

= = = = =

28. Matt Hardy

See my previous post about Jeff for comments re: early days of Hardy Boyz

In quick summary, pretty sure I was more into Jeff and more meh on Matt because Jeff flew and Matt was the base.

Insert Lita, and I was still more into Jeff and more meh on Matt because of jealousy on some level and confusion on another level. Confusion being "Why isn't Lita at least with the hotter/cooler Hardy Boy!?"

I didn't really come around on Matt until mid-to-late 2002. There was a pretty clear dividing line. Jeff's ladder match with Taker was the last time I was a Jeff over Matt fan (not that I ever disliked Jeff, mind you). Sure, Jeff had a few good midcard matches still on RAW through the rest of 2002... but Matt jumped to SmackDown! and reinvented himself as Version 1.

Possibly one of the greatest gimmicks of all time. I loved his unique entrances and looked forward to the latest and greatest Matt Fact religiously. I loved how he'd go at Taker to try to impress Steph, Brock, and Heyman; how he'd feed Shannon Moore to the wolves without blinking an eye; how he was unimpressed by Shannon's Moore-on, Crash; how he persevered to cut weight to become possibly the GOAT WWE Cruiserweight Champion. It was all so fucking good. But then the V1 run died with not even a wet fart of a whimper. I think he just got randomly traded back to RAW to do nothing?

Then, his IRL-turned angle deal with Edge and Lita had me hooked at a time when I wasn't watching wrestling. I was online, so could follow the main beats, and man oh man was this juicy shit. Matt was clearly the face in it all, and seemed to be mustering a Daniel Bryan level following in terms of fan support. I remember going over to a coworker's to watch my first PPV since WMXX... think it would've been SummerSlam 2005(?) just to see the returning Matt Hardy vs. Edge finally. I'm still stumped if that match was botched or meant to go down like that. I hear they had better matches subsequently, but I never sought them out. Then, just like V1, I hear it all died with a dry fart.

Matt & Christian as the Jannettys of their tag teams became the veteran glue holding WWECW together. Good Hand Matt apparently turned in MVP's second best feud (after the Benoit one) -- or perhaps best feud if you consider things beyond just the matches. They botched their second attempt at a Matt/Jeff feud, but would finally get it right years later with the Broken stuff. As much as I loved first-run Broken stuff, it'll still always be 1b to my beloved 1a of V1.

= = = = =

22. John Bradshaw Layfield

It's weird. This happened literally right at the time I stopped watching. And yet, I instantly loved JBL (maybe it was easier to do so because I wasn't watching and also had turned away from the product).

My vote, to be fair, was for Layfield overall though. I fucking LOVED him as part of the Acolytes/APA. IMO had a lariat that far surpassed Stan's. Loved the Cheers meets Stone Cold vibe of the APA. That really put him over the top for me. Then discovering he was a shoot savant investor was just the icing on the cake.

Aside from his Clothesline from Hell being in my Top 10 Best Wrestling Finishers of All Time, Bradshaw also had an underrated GOAT contender big boot.

Losing steam, and afraid Wife is stirring...

= = = = =

9. Chris Benoit

What can I say besides I compartmentalize easily?

Loved his in-ring style, even if it's largely responsible for all the contemporary wrestling I hate today.

Never followed him in WCW or ECW. Have only gone back and sampled a little bit of his work from those promotions. My love is based purely on his 2000-2004 run.

He pops up in 2000 and takes some time to get his feet under him. Has an organic rivalry with Y2J, and I remember being the only Benoit champion among my group of school friends. They were all on Y2J's dick, and I didn't get it. I'm like, have you seen Benoit? Dude is a crazed wrestling machine. I think Benoit tangling with Rock at Fully Loaded, HHH at No Mercy, and being involved in the WWF title fatal four-way at Unforgiven helped make him a made man to me. To me, it was just a matter of time before he won the WWF title. Or at least started challenging for it on a more consistent basis.

I thought the moment was going to come when Chris & Chris started feuding with the Two-Man Power Trip. But then HHH got injured. And then Benoit got injured.

I remember thinking it was weird when Benoit was drafted in 2002 before he'd returned. And then switched brands before even appearing on the one that drafted him, and re-debuted in the midcard (which is kinda understandable given the stacked roster of 2002 WWE). He took a bit to get his feet under him, settle on a brand, settle on heel/face alignment... but my SummerSlam 2002 onward, he was a made man again. He was done slumming it for the IC title, was back to feuding with Kurt, and became a key part of the SmackDown! Six.

From late 2002 through the end of 2003, everything Benoit did was must-see magic to me. Punctuated by the epic Benoit/Lesnar match in December. So much so that I was so pissed off about being robbed the proper conclusion of Benoit/Brock at WMXX that I stopped actively watching WWE.

As Elon Musk would say....

ASUKAS STOCK IS WAY TOO HIGH.

JBL was fantastic , one of the best heels since the AE and easily made my list. Even the APA were great and Bradshaw was awesome as half of that team. One of the more overlooked guys in the WWE.

When JBL won the title I thought to myself that wrestling really fucked up. To me he was just Bradshaw of the APA. However he was EXCELLENT as champion and really made himself a career. Sure he’s a bully and a douche but he did the impossible for me with making that character work.

Still too damn high on the list!

I absolutely loved JBL’s title run, one of my favourite heel runs in history.

My friends at school would always give me shit about being a JBL mark and so and so would beat him at the PPV on Monday, even though JBL guaranteed god victory!

Then the next day at school they were salty that JBL cheated his way to win yet again, especially after the barbed wire cage match. I loved that finish :lol:

Is Baker secretly Cornette? Seems so odd that Cornette videos detailing recent countdown wrestlers JUST SO HAPPEN to be highlighted in his newest episodes, this time with Steamboat. HMMMM. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

May 31, 2020 13:24:20 GMT RT said:

JBL was always meh in my books. His character work was pretty good but I never cared much for it.

Now throw in all the stuff we know about JBL backstage and how he treats people...wouldn’t sniff a top 100 list for me.

Pretty much this except the only thing I found entertaining about him was his commentary work with Cole.

May 31, 2020 18:29:13 GMT @ness said:

Is Baker secretly Cornette? Seems so odd that Cornette videos detailing recent countdown wrestlers JUST SO HAPPEN to be highlighted in his newest episodes, this time with Steamboat. HMMMM. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

You thought I worked for the NWA. Cornette worked for the NWA. Cornette yells a lot. I type in ALL CAPS way too much. Hmm, indeed.....

Oh yeah, I really dug his originally run as commentator. I didn't care much for his second go round, but always enjoyed how he was able to put guys over as future guys. He always said Matt Hardy was a main event waiting to happen.

He would obviously never sniff my list, but I will admit that he is involved in two of the elite "wrestling encapsulated in one image" images.

7. JBL (#27)- Was the furthest thing from a Wrestling God when I first encountered him in early 1996 WWF. I thought Justin "Hawk" Bradshaw was a bore with a dated gimmick and an LOLworthy finisher. The ornery cowboy gimmick just reeked of the 80s Southern territories and clotheslines were hit in practically every single match I had seen during my 9 years as a wrestling fan. "How is that a finisher!?!?"- 1996 Baker. The only thing worse would have been the Sleeper. I thought he had no upside and wouldn't last long.

Yet even in those early days he had some hidden gems against HOG on Superstars, Michaels on Superstars, and Aldo at a house show I attended where Bradshaw hit the first Tiger Suplex I ever saw in real life (Taz's Apter Mag pic doesn't count) and just about took Aldo's head off with the Lariat. Also, my friends and I were pretty sure he was Stan Hansen  :lol: It was a hotly debated topic with most of us agreeing on Bradshaw=Hansen. For example, I'd have put a few dollars on Bradshaw being Hansen.

Then came the New Blackjacks. I remember kinda sorta liking their (lone?) vignette where they were sitting around a campfire doing cowboy stuff. Blackjack Bradshaw also had a glorious mustache. Aside from that, my view towards the New Blackjacks mirrored those of a young Dewey Foley. They did an All Japan tour and I kind of assumed they would end up there full time because they just didn't fit into WWF.

But Bradshaw stuck around and finally got over with me in early 1998. First he got a Royal Rumble longevity push, lasting something like 40 minutes. This was the first time I thought Bradshaw might have a future. Then he turned into a wild brawling babyface feuding with Jim Cornette's NWA faction after Windham turned on him, splitting up the boring Blackjacks. Getting Bradshaw over with me is the only good thing WWF's rubbish NWA stable ever achieved. I also got a kick out of Bradshaw as a Super Hoss teaming with Taka and swatting around the more EVIL members of Kaientai. Also recall a fun Bradshaw/Taka sports entertainment segment or two. Around this time I started hyping Bradshaw up as a guy to keep an eye on in the AOL wrestling chatroom. My hype fell on deaf ears. The closest thing I had to a supporter admitted he liked Bradshaw, but then told me he was already 37, and therefore had no future. That guy seems to have been wrong since a quick search reveals Bradshaw only would have been 31 at the time. Bradshaw was over with me as one of my patented quirky Baker Guys. But he was not at all over with the general public.

I was an Acolytes fan from Day One. I just loved the way they wrestled. Nobody else in WWF was doing the hard hitting hoss thing. Still loved their matches with the Hardys and KanePac when I revisited them a few years back. They even carried Mideon & Viscera, who might just be my choice for WOAT tag team, to a good match! I swear this happened! It was on Shotgun/Jakked in late 99.

I've mentioned before not having a ton of nostalgia for the Attitude Era these days. I'd much rather watch stuff from the Hogan Era, New Generation, late 80s NWA, or specially selected WCW periods. That being said, the Acolytes are my go to AE act. Probably 75% of the AE stuff I've watched over the past few years involved the Acolytes. Yet they still weren't over with many people beyond myself.....

UNTIL! They started having those fun backstage skits. The "APA Office" was a great running gag that never failed to elicit a chuckle from me. And they finally got over with the masses! Hooray! Nobody was happier than I to see it. Yet the tag division was now stacked like it hadn't been since the late 80s. So even during their peak they were only the #4 or #5 team in the company. I also don't remember a ton of good matches from 2000 and beyond. The main one that sticks out is APA & Rock & Sock vs. DX from an early 2000 Raw. But they were gold in skits and always got huge pops when revealed as *insert popular wrestler's* hired guns for the night. I stuck with them through 2001 when they were portrayed as grizzled veterans who were more upset than anybody about those damn WCW & ECW wrestlers invading their yard.

But they got stale after that. Bradshaw had a solo run on Raw during the first brand split. It was....alright. I was probably more into it than most people and I wasn't even THAT into it. Then Bradshaw & Faarooq teamed up again to do....very little. The magic was gone. Both guys had injury issues. And I just assumed both men were nearing the end of the line. It was a good run though!

At this point I would no doubt have STILL been the high vote on Bradshaw. Let's see...Scott Norton finished just outside my Top 50. Bradshaw was WWF's version of Scott Norton. So he probably would have finished around #51 on this countdown even if JBL never happened.

But JBL did happen! And I was all in from day one. That first JBL promo was glorious. And it set the stage for what was to come. I thought it was a little weird that he went from 1/2 of a tag team whose best days were behind them to WWE Championship contender in like 5 minutes. But whatever. His new character was so great that I was just willing to go with it. Then he actually won the belt! Never in a million years did I expect that to happen. His feud and bloodbath with Eddie have aged like fine wine to become legendary.

JBL had the best title reign in WWE since early 2000 HHH. I had JBL's reign at #12 when we did our Greatest Championship Reigns countdown and that's honestly a little low. I LOVED JBL's title reign. He was the best possible Honkytonk Man, forever coming up with creative new ways to retain the title, with the one against Big Show that System mentioned being the cream of the crop. JBL is also one of the all time great characters and promo men. His HTM meets Dibiase meets Hansen character was gold. He could be funny or vicious, switching from cowardly heel to brutal bully at the drop of a dime. All his sports entertainment stuff ruled. I could go on forever about the greatness of JBL's title reign. But this post is already long enough. I'll just add JBL was my favorite wrestler from the debut of the JBL gimmick in mid 2004 until his tragic first retirement in mid 2006. I was so bummed out when he retired the first time that I may very well have gone off wrestling right then and there had it not been for KING BOOKAH!

I was pumped for his late 2007 comeback. Think that's when I checked out my "first Youtube video"- a previously posted JBL tribute. But his 2nd run wasn't nearly as good as the first. He had a good bully boy segment with Finlay & Hornswoggle and I liked the Michaels feud. Aside from that, meh. Still loved the guy though! Even a post-prime JBL could do no wrong in my eyes.

Umm....until his first commentary run  :lol:  Thought he was super overrated on commentary. I'm talking Heyman levels of overrated. My big problem with JBL on commentary is he didn't stick to the heel role. He'd give babyface Benoit verbal blowjobs while shitting on heels like Sylvain. 

But The Wrestling God proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that JBL stands for....

Just 
Being 
Legendary

#24 Edge
9 Votes-241 Points
High Vote: #8
Last Time: #19



#25 RVD
9 Votes-227 Points
High Vote: #10
Last Time: #28



#26 Roddy Piper
7 Votes-225 Points
High Vote: #7
Last Time: #45

I was the high vote for Edge. I also had Piper at 27 on my list.

It's not a secret that I love my canadian wrestlers, I haven't totalled up how many I have on my list, but it's probably a good percentage.  Piper's heyday was really in the time when I had no access to watching WWF and limited access to wrestling in general, so I missed a lot of stuff first time round from then even though I was following from a distance as it were, and couldn't watch.

So I've probably missed a lot of Piper's best work, I know he's one of the most gifted talkers ever but I must confess I'm not that familiar with his in-ring work.  I have loved what I've seen though, hence he made my list at No. 27.

Edge.  I love Edge so much.  From his time with the Brood, Edge and Christian and on to his solo work, I've always been a huge fan of the guy.  He seems to have this ability to continuously reinvent himself which is a gift not everyone has.  I've always thought he's better as a heel than a face though.  So many great matches through the years and I count myself extremely fortunate to have been at what turned out to be one of his last matches (or so we thought) at Wrestlemania, and I was devastated a couple of weeks later when he had to retire. 

His return at the Rumble this year was a real mark out moment for me, I didn't realise how much I'd missed him until that music hit.  He's still got it and after watching his special on the network, I love him even more.

Plus yes, I'm biased as Adam Copeland is one of the nicest people I've ever met.   

Roddy Piper - I never forgave Piper for his role in Starrcade '99. I nearly stopped watching Pro Wrestling after that week, Piper screws DA MAN not once but twice, before Bill takes out his frustrations out on a car and winds up on the sideline for four months. Then Piper just became another Sgt. Slaughter/Jim Duggan type who'd appear if they needed a former legend. They never really let him tear it up on the microphone either, which was his biggest strength. He would have been a contender for the other list.

Rob Van Dam (#28) - I was a fan of Rob Van Dam before I'd actually seen him wrestle. I saw pictures of Rob in WOW magazine pointing to himself covered in titles, just shrugging because of how awesome he was, so I had to abide. I felt like I hit the lottery when I saw him in the WWF, nobody could move as well as Rob Van Dam. He instantly became my favourite wrestler and I had it all mapped out in my mind that Rob would be WWF Champion by Wrestlemania XIX. Then some hick from Webster South Dakota had to ruin it all and Rob found himself on the pre-show working the boring Corporate guys. Rob was still one of my favourites up until his TNA run where it made me re-evaluate him as a performer. Looking back, I don't think it was fair, and it was amazing how quickly PW turned babyface on RVD when he came back to the WWE. I still remember the early match reviews centered around RVD's return and a triple threat he had with Christian (and Randy Orton? Or was it Cesaro?). Anywhom, Rob slid down my list, but he was a unique performer who was capable of some crazy spots and his personality made him fun to watch. He didn't quite have the versatility I would have liked, but Lynn/RVD Barely Legal '99 is a match I can watch whenever and RVD/Guerrero Ladder is one of my favourite Raw matches of all-time.

Edge (#33) - Edge was one of those performers I was drawn to right away. One of the first shows I watched was SummerSlam '99 and Edge & Christian got me completely on board with their performance in the gauntlet match. I only caught it on replay, but I was heart-broken for their loss to the New Brood at No Mercy and they nearly made up for HHH's defence at Wrestlemania 2000 with their triangle ladder match victory. Since I'm a good person, ordinarily I was 100% behind the babyfaces, but I'm also fiercely loyal, so I was still completely on board with Edge & Christian and I couldn't get enough of their antics. Their chemistry with Mick and Angle was fantastic and the only time my loyalties were ever put into question was when they turned on Mick in that Christmas 2000 edition of Raw. I gave them the benefit of the doubt, because Mick put them in a goddam tag team match against The Rock and the Undertaker.

I was always more of an Edge guy. Edge always struck me as more confident and fun loving. He was also clearly booked stronger, and I was beyond happy when he was KotR 2001. I was all on board the Edge push and I could see him and Rob Van Dam being the Hogan/Savage of the 03/04 era when tragedy struck and Edge was on the sidelines for an entire year. I was incredibly bummed because Edge seemed like only moments away from a WWE Championship run and the wait killed his momentum. When he returned, I was excited BUT something was missing. It seemed like Edge was being pushed hard out of the gate but instead of being his charming wise cracking self, he reverted to his angry yelling screaming self of 1998. It didn't matter how many good matches he was having, I lost interest and Edge was sinking fast.

But then he did it again. He got another one over those stinking Hardyz and I couldn't have been happier. While admittedly I did feel bad for Matt in that whole ordeal and felt he was entitled to kick Edge's ass at least once, the whole feud made me care about Edge again and go out of my way to watch Raw when usually I was just reading spoilers. Then he became one of my all-time favourites when he put Cena in his place. For whatever reason, I didn't see the idea of a cash-in coming and I was so elated to see Edge win the big one. It took 3 years longer than expected, but finally my guy had done it and I dug that Rated R Superstar monicker.

Edge's run was great for the first few weeks with memorable segment after memorable segment, so of course the WWE had to end it and give Cena back the title. I was so done with the WWE at this point, then Foley made a comeback and I was on board. Edge/Foley was my Wrestlemania main event and it lived up to my expectations, then they had that great six person intergender match at ONS II which was fantastic and I was so glad that the WWE recognised this and gave him the title back.

That was the apex of my Edge fandom. He was still one of my favourites all the way till he turned babyface in 2010 and tried to make his finisher move his gimmick. I'm sorry, but in comparison to Goldberg, the spear was just so weak. He retired not long after on a better note which was bittersweet, but I was ready for a new direction and I'd seen enough Edge title reigns by that point to be well and truly satisfied.

As a performer, I really like Edge as a tag guy. I used to like how he'd pick his partners up and use them as a weapon and I think the tag environment allowed him to use his high octane momentum based wrestling better. As a single, I feel he could get sloppy from time to time, although his fundamentals were pretty sound. The problem with Edge is that because of his look, he was always being compared to Jericho and Christian who just seemed to always be evolving and getting better, whereas Edge seemed to be winding down.

I was pretty happy to see Edge back and in some phenomenal shape. Over the years, I've come to embrace these comebacks as things you rarely see play out well in genuine sports, so you have to appreciate it when it comes to Pro Wrestling.

John Bradshaw Layfield - My first introduction to the Acolytes was them winning their tag team battle royal at Armaggeddon 99 to get a shot at the New Age Outlaws. After they somehow retained against Rock n Sock, I was at least excited to see these two tough hombres kick their ass, but they dropped the ball big time. I hated the APA theme song and by 2000 they clearly weren't as good as the top three tag teams.

Really only started paying attention again when they tried to give Bradshaw a big singles push as a babyface. I wanted to give him a chance, but the happy go lucky Texan sucked and quickly disappeared off my TV. When he returned on SD, he looked like Sam Newman from the AFL Footy Show and I was utterly confused. He pulled a Dudleyz and returned to his tag team which seemed like a mercy killing, except this time they tried it again except as this Texan version of the Million Dollar Man. I thought it was designed to give Eddie Guerrero an easy win and just a wayto pad out his reign against a natural opponent.

Except I was wrong, really, really wrong. They gave JBL the title in a dumb way and refused to take the belt off of him. At first I was like uhuh! They didn't want Eddie losing it to Taker right away so they could have their Taker/Eddie match for Survivor Series, how clever. Except no, Bradshaw somehow retains against Taker. Then I thought uhuh! They're going to make up for that dumb Wrestlemania XIX match and have him beat this racist charicature. Nope, easy win.

When they eventually had him drop the title to John Cena in a semi-main I was so disappointed. All that time and build up for that?

However, in the ultimate JBL move, right as I thought I had it figured out, he and Cena have that great Judgement Day match. It changed my tune and in retrospect made me appreciate the run. JBL got better as the run went along, there was some genuine good sports entertainment and that finish to No Way Out 2005 was extremely clever. I thought that match was going to be a colossal train wreck going in, but I had to tip my hat to that.

My favourite JBL quirk is how he'll make random international sports analogies. One time he pulled an Irish Rugby reference, which went completely over my head till my mate pointed it out.

With all that said, #27?! You guys have your lost god damn minds.

Should be obvious I was the high vote for RVD. RT is short for Rolling Thunder, the name I originally signed up under.

I started watching ECW around 97/98 when RVD was pretty much at his peak. During his long run as Television Champion he was probably the most over guy in the company. I fell in love with ECW immediately and latched on to RVD right away. He was flashy and cool and had this crazy striking + high-flying talent that I had never seen before. ECW was the grunge/punk rock to WWF/WCW’s Top 40 hits and RVD was my favourite band.

His crowd involvement was probably what got me into him the most. The crowd singing his theme song, the way he could gesture with his hands and get the whole crowd to shout his name. “ROB...VAN...DAM!” was our “ADAM COLE, BAYBAY!” while he was still in grade school.

His WWE run was pretty great too. And when he joined The Alliance it gave it a realism that nothing else did. He was fresh in the company and had a ton of buzz about him, and was very clearly going to get a good push. So when he joined them it felt like a big deal.

And his win at One Night Stand. Still one of my favourite moments ever. It will always haunt me how he fucked up his world title run by being an idiot. He could have been so much more in WWE instead of a one off champion.

Still, he will always sit in my top ten because of how long I was a fan and how he was the reason I looked at wrestling a different way all those years ago. He helped pave the road for some of my favourites today, like Matt Riddle and Will Ospreay, among many others.

Ricky Steamboat: I had him at #16. I don't know what it was about him, but the first time I saw him, that was my guy. My dad always teased me and called him a weenie to get under my skin, but that guy could rassle'. I truly think he was one of the more underrated wrestlers during his time. One of my (and probably most people's) all time favorite matches was Steamboat vs Macho man WMIII, but if you haven't seen his ironman match at Beach Blast '92 against another favorite of mine Rick Rude, you are missing out. Never mind his trifecta of matches against Naitch in 89ish.

I was the high vote for Hot Rod. You Hogan lovers can all have him. Hot Rod was my guy. So entertaining. I didn't care that he was 'bad guy', he was awesome.  After all he's 'the reason Hulk Hogan lost his hair'.   The man was highly quotable and so quick witted.  Never a dull moment around Hot Rod.  Best trash talker in the business.  Was he the best in ring performer?  No, but neither was Hogan, but he could get it done.  Probably best match I saw was his WMVIII against Bret and of course his match against the Mountie for the IC Championship.  There was also that Starrcade match against Greg Valentine that was pretty hardcore as well.  I was sad he never rose higher in WWE than the IC Champ, but such is life.

Edge was my #21.  How could he NOT be on my list he's Edge.  However, this is yet another reason why Rogue and I make good friends as she was always team Edge and I have long been team Christian.  I could go on and on about Edge's accolades truly.  He has had so many amazing matches as a tag team partner (be it E&C or Rated RKO) and his solo career.   We saw him at what was then his last match at WM 27 and at RAW the next night when he retired suddenly.  He is in the best shape of his life right now and I am happy to see him back, but I can't help but worry if like Taker he too will end up chasing the dragon again.  He went out in an emotional moment after a great Mania match as Champ last time.  I worry if that's maybe where he should have left it. 

JBL did not make my list (sorry Baker ).  I didn't hate him like some did but like others I think I preferred him as a commentator over being a wrestler. 

I won't get into RVD.  Just know RT you are one of my favorite people taste in wrestlers aside.    

Where is 🤯 with all this talk of high votes and RVD?

Jun 1, 2020 19:23:19 GMT @ness said:

Where is 🤯 with all this talk of high votes and RVD?

Didn't make my list.

I was SUPER into RVD from mid-2001 to mid-2002, and then a last gasp burst in late 2002 when he had his WHC match against HBK on RAW.

Off the top of my head, my Top 10 favorite RVD matches... all from that stretch:

1.) vs. Undertaker [RAW... for Undisputed title]
2.) vs. Tommy Dreamer [RAW... unifying IC and Hardcore titles]
3.) vs. Shawn Michaels [RAW... for WHC]
4.) vs. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle [No Mercy]
5.) vs. Brock Lesnar [RAW]
6.) w/ Billy Kidman vs. Jeff Hardy & X-Pac [**WHY ISN'T THIS SHOWING!?!? I think X-Pac, not Matt Hardy? It was on SmackDown! in July... I think?]
7.) vs. Jerry Lynn [Sunday Night HeAT]
8.) vs. Jeff Hardy [InVasion]
9.) vs. Jeff Hardy [SummerSlam]
10.) vs. Jeff Hardy [RAW... unifying IC and Euro titles, I think?]

Random italics, dafuq? :huh:

Boy have I fallen behind. Going to have to shorten my points on these:

72. Razor Ramon (34) - Liked both sides of his career. At his best he was one of the best big men in the business. Obviously had demons and didn't always give it everything he had. Still, his mark on the business is undeniable.



69. Christopher Daniels (32) - One of the few TNA guys I had time for years ago. Incredibly crisp technician, who I imagine would be a phenomenal teacher. Struggled with the personality side of the business and still does (SCU is abysmal) but still delivers the goods.



58. Jerry Lawler (8) - My second favourite old-timer after Race. Forget wrestler, may be the greatest worker to ever lace a pair of boots. A master of getting over. If you haven't seen a lot of Lawler, dive onto YouTube and catch anything you can. Masterful.



57. Umaga (12) - Surprised I wasn't the high vote here. Umaga had many things going for him. He burst on the scene at the peak of my wrestling fandom, he was a convincing brute of a big man and he has the classic with Cena, one of the greatest matches of the 21st century.



56. Adam Cole (42) - I put this list together a long time ago now and I'm kind of surprised I placed Adam Cole. I do like him though, he certainly has that Shawn Michaels-esque magnetism that you cannot teach, and he's an excellent seller. Is he traditionally what I look for? No, but he's a highlight of modern wrestling and one of the few remaining to exude natural star-power.



54. Sting (41) - I like a lot of early Sting stuff in the NWA and it was enough to place him here. I need to watch more Crow Sting but he was a solid worker with good charisma and a character impossible to root against. Like the Ultimate Warrior if he had talent.



50. Jake Roberts (23) - Right up my street is Jake. The cerebral promos offered so much contrast and balance amongst the multi-colored mayhem of 80s WWF. Possibly more ahead of his time than anybody at any point in history. Good worker too.



49. Jeff Hardy (47) - Childhood pick here. Jeff was good though, he could sell his ass off and I always felt as though his wrestling skills were underrated. Drunk nonsense aside, when did Jeff ever have a bad match?



46. Arn Anderson (39) - If you're sensing a pattern by now, you'd be right on the money. The quiet, cerebral, no-nonsense nature of Arn spoke to me even as I watched it decades later. Loved his team with Tully in his later days too.



34. Chris Benoit ( 6)- Absolutely stunned to be the high vote although he did kill his family so I understand. The best pure wrestler of my life. Always liked the gimmick, liked that he was a smaller guy in WWF that always stood up to the top guys with no fear. Unbelievably consistent performer. Truly dreadful promo.



32. Randy Orton (22) - I acknowledge the flaws in Randy Orton and have pointed them out for myself over the years, but he was a big part of getting me back into wrestling in 04/05. I think I always loved the idea of Orton more than what he actually become, but I can't deny his impact on my wrestling fandom as a teenager. I also think when it boils down to it he is pretty good, when he can be bothered.



31. Samoa Joe (14) - I fucking love Joe, and if he'd had a run at the top in WWE he would have pushed top 5 probably. He never waivers from his character once, no pandering, you can completely suspend your disbelief for him. Hell, you don't even need to. Also had some of the best matches of this century. He should have been higher on my list.



30. Asuka (40) - Great wrestler. Her NXT run is one of the all-time great title runs anywhere anytime, classic after classic with no hint of getting tiring or repetitive. Energetic gimmick that sometimes goes a bit over my head but she's so convincing with it it doesn't really matter.



28. Ricky Steamboat (44) - I kind of agree with UT here. I placed Steamboat just out of love for the Flair trilogy but I do feel like he lacked main-event star quality a little bit. Not tremendously, but enough. All the same, terrific babyface fire and more classics than I've had birthdays so good on him.



27. JBL (19) - Lmao JBL at 27, how on earth. Well done PW, well done. I'm stunned, I thought I may be the high vote at 19 for this guy. I actually wasn't hugely enamored with the gimmick, I found it very dry and almost like Bradshaw was playing a character, but in the ring I loved him. A real nasty fucker with the right balance of cowardice and aggression to make it work. The Judgment Day match is up there with anything done in the last 15 years.



26. Roddy Piper (15) - One of the few highlights of mid-80s WWF with a character that wasn't nearly as corny as everything else. Had some great wrestling work in the NWA earlier in his career, including one of my favourites against Valentine at Starrcade 83.





Considered



65. Lita - Loved her as a kid, she was cool and really hot in a 'I would never tell my mum' kind of way. Grew up and realised she was sloppy and pretty overrated.



47. Raven - I need to see more. Some promos I've seen on WWF show great promise and I love the idea of the character.



40. Ted DiBiase - Was a huge victim of WWF's principles that midcard wrestling shouldn't overshadow main event wrestling. This guy was actually an incredible worker. Go back and watch him, he can bump, move and sell like the wrestlers today. Terrific engine and he was over, unfortunately he never had that classic match because the situation never presented itself. Underrated as fuck.



38. Trish Stratus - The reverse of Lita. Growing up I thought she was a bimbo but when I was older I realised she was actually really fucking good and easily the best of that era of the WWF. Good character as well, particularly as a devious heel.



35. Rick Rude - Was really close. Loved the idea of the tights. Was a great athelete but I never really felt like he was a great worker. Very paint-by-numbers, even in those 80s WWF days. Better character, and could cut a promo when he needed to.



33. Hulk Hogan - I was pretty into Hogan's return back in 2002, I loved the red & yellow look and the Hendrix music. Looking at his old stuff, I can admire it because he can work without a doubt, but it lacks a bit of substance for me. Weirdly he never gets talked about as a top promo, when within two minutes of hyping on the mic he could get an arena full of people to wet themselves.





Comments:



52. Cesaro - I don't think he has major league personality. I know lots love him, but I just can't imagine him getting over in a major way without a big gimmick.



44. Kevin Owens - Something about him annoys me. I think it's maybe that his look doesn't fit his character. He has this look of 'I could beat the shit out anyone' but honestly looks like he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Not a bad worker or anything.



41. Kenny Omega - Don't get it, am stunned so many others forn over it. It absolutely baffles. His mannerisms, his weird faces he makes, he wrestles to me like somebody who learned about wrestling playing Here Comes the Pain. Move, move, taunt, move, finisher, kickout, taunt. Just a total goof.



25. RVD - One of the all-time great bumpers. Not great at much else. Nowadays he would fit right in, back in his day he stood out for lacking in wrestling psychology and spamming high spots.



24. Edge - Always thought his offense looked really weak, not just the Spear. Found it hard to suspend my disbelief for him winning fights against top guys. Fantastic character, one of the best of my era so credit for that. Awesome promo too, his hype promo before the Undertaker match at Mania 24 is one of my all-time favourites, and preceded one of Edge's best matches.

Some great posting here this afternoon.

Roddy Piper- Another guy I couldn't stand growing up and didn't learn to appreciate until after joining PW.

Piper's run as a main event heel opposite Hogan was before my time. But he was one of the wrestlers I knew of before I even watched wrestling. So he was obviously a big deal. I started to watch during the build to his retirement match with Adrian Adonis at Wrestlemania III. He won and went off to make movies in Hollywood for a few years.

He came back and now I REALLY couldn't stand him. I thought his vaunted promos were terrible. He just endlessly rambled on like a young, hyperactive Abe Simpson. His wrestling was no better. He seemed to take inspiration not from any of the in ring greats, but from the Three Stooges. It was all eye pokes and yuks. He'd come and go, stinking up the joint when he was around. The Morton Downey segment at Wrestlemania V or VI is a WOAT contender. The Lawler KOTR match and Hollywood Backlot Brawl were total DUDs imo. I didn't get Piper. At all. He'd be a contender for a Bottom 10 list.

Then he went to WCW where he and Hogan wheezed their way through a few main events. One of their stinkers rather hilariously coincided more or less with the epic Taker/Michaels Hell In A Cell match. You had 2 guys in the prime of their careers putting on a match for the ages. And then you had "Age In A Cage." It bothered me SO MUCH that WCW was beating my beloved WWF with that geriatric junk. 

Then he made a few WWF & TNA appearances in the early 2000s where he was more Abe Simpson than ever. This solidified Piper's status as probably the most overrated guy OF ALL TIME in my eyes. Though I did like his matches with Bret @ Wrestlemania and Valentine @ Starrcade. But aside from that, Piper was all crap, all the time.

Anyway, after joining PW I finally caught more stuff from his mid 80s heel run opposite Hogan. Pre-1987 WWF had always been a pretty big blindspot with me outside of the little I saw on Coliseum Home Video growing up. OK. I could finally see why he was over once upon a time. And even considered a legend by many. He was a great little motor mouthed shit stirrer and a surprisingly good brawler. He seemed slightly unhinged and "real" for lack of a better word.

Still doesn't exonerate all those decades of suck though.

*RVD & Edge both made my list. I'll cover them....later. Probably no new entries tonight.

37. Edge (#24)- A few times throughout this countdown I've expressed regret over ranking Edge about 10 spots too high. Most (all?) of the wrestlers on my list had their peaks and valleys. But Edge was among the most up and down of them all. Oh well. It wouldn't have effected his ranking anyway.

Edge's vignettes didn't do anything for me. I didn't really get what he was supposed to be. "Edgy (hehe) night owl who creeps around the mean streets of Toronto?" was my best guess. Then he injured a Boricua with a dive in his very first match. But he soon won me over somewhat as a movez guy. Early Edge wrestled a lot like ECW's Nova. Then came The Brood, which I did like, but not as much as most people. He was more of a 3rd tier fave than a true Baker Guy.

The No Mercy Ladder Match was obviously awesome. It got him, Christian, and the Hardy Boys over. But I wouldn't actually see it for another year or so. Then came the Triangle Ladder Match at Wrestlemania, which I did see, and thought was an instant classic. But E&C were sort of the odd team out in my fandom. I had years of attachment to the Hardys & Dudleys. I also preferred the APA & Too Cool to Edge & Christian.

Then E&C turned into comedic heels. And I actually rooted against them! In that old school "boo the heel" sort of way. They got on my nerves....for a few months. But I eventually came around on them. I think my friend Will, a huge E&C fan, had a lot to do with it. He was always spouting off their catchphrases in a funny manner. I never turned on the Hardys, but at some point I preferred E&C. They were good in the ring. More importantly, they were hilarious. To this day, I still slip some of the more obscure E&Cisms into my posts. I did say "Would I buy their shirt?" was one of my criteria for this favorites list. And I actually did buy an E&C shirt! It was an impulse purchase at a WWF taping. I remember wanting an Angle shirt, but they either had none, or I didn't like the ones they did carry. So Will and I both ended up buying yellow (NOT BLACK!) E&C shirts. A quick search reveals this would have been at the 10/3/00 Smackdown taping.

After Wrestlemania X7 I started losing interest in all three of the Big 3 tag teams. Then I sided with the far more entertaining (opera theme!) Christian during the E&C split. Edge kind of meandered for a while until finding his mojo on Smackdown in mid 2002 as a Barry Windham style up and coming babyface. He was pretty bland as a character, which is why I was more of an Edge respecter than a true Edge fan, but he was on fire in the ring. He got a nice rub from Hogan and became a good match machine, having several bouts I consider classics. Though I'll admit it certainly helped that he was regularly working with Jericho, Angle, Eddie & Benoit. I always thought Edge had a bright future. Management was clearly high on him. But it wasn't until his 2002 Smackdown run that I saw him as a future World Champ.

Then he suffered an untimely injury and was out of action for over a year. He was pretty boring when he finally did return. They tried recapturing that 2002 white meat babyface magic, but it just wasn't there anymore. I quickly lost interest. Then he turned heel and REALLY got under my skin due to the whole Matt Hardy/Lita fiasco. Edge was honestly one of my least favorite wrestlers from some point in 2004 until some time in 2006, even getting some of that old school, white hot heat from me during his feuds with Baker Guys Matt, Flair, and Foley. I can't remember exactly when I came back around on Edge, but I'm sure beating Cena a few times played a factor. Also remember Edge being my choice for WWE MVP in 2006. He carried Raw all year even when I was still hating on the dude.

He was pretty much a perennial "bottom of the 1st tier/top of the 2nd tier" Baker Guy after that. I remember really liking him when he came to Smackdown. He just oozed star power. Had a cool entrance and just seemed "cool" for lack of a better word. He got professional wrestling, and was great as the shit stirring ultimate opportunist. I seem to be the high vote on the Taker feud. Really liked their matches.

Then I quit watching wrestling in 2009, though Edge's unfortunate early retirement did happen to coincide with my brief return around the 2011 Wrestlemania season. I was bummed out that he had to hang up the boots early. But glad he got to make a comeback this year. Too bad the match with Orton seems to have been an all time level stinker.

Final Thoughts- Edge had a Hall of Fame career which saw him cover most of the bases- Midcard workrate guy. Tag team specialist. Innovative hardcore and high flying daredevil. Hilarious comedian. All time great up and coming babyface (2nd only to Windham imo). Sleazeball heel. Chickenshit heel. Main event heel. Member of a stable. Leader of a stable. And finally, Legend.

He had a good look, above average mic skills, and charisma. While he doesn't excel at any one aspect of the wrestling aspect of wrestling, and is even subpar at some things, he had a knack for having good matches. A thread title I once saw on another forum pretty much says it all. It went something like- "Is Edge the king of the **** match?" I'd have to say "yes." 

At the end of the 2000s I came up with a list of my 100 favorite WWE matches from that decade. Much to my surprise, Edge fared extremely well. He was in the Top 5 when it came to both volume of matches and points generated. I can't remember for sure, but he may have even been #1 in the number of matches of my list. Edge mastered the WWE style main event in spite of that laughable spear. He’s also one of the most successful collectors of gold in wrestling history, having won an absurd number of titles.

Wanna say the last time I came up with a GOAT list I had Edge in that 15-20 range cluster rubbing shoulders with the likes of Jericho, Angle, and Eddie.

Hmm.....maybe #37 wasn't too high after all??

Jun 1, 2020 15:40:40 GMT Big Pete said:

I had it all mapped out in my mind that Rob would be WWF Champion by Wrestlemania XIX.

If only. There were like half a dozen different occasions where I would convince myself this time RVD would win the big one. I was an idiot. Or maybe just a naive optimist? Your call.

I still remember the early match reviews centered around RVD's return and a triple threat he had with Christian (and Randy Orton? Or was it Cesaro?).

Wow. Good memory. The 3rd party in the Triple Threat was Jericho. There was a Jericho/RVD singles match around that time which also got a lot of love here. Then somebody (Emp I think) mentioned their KOTR 2002 match smoking that one. So I rewatched KOTR. It did indeed blow the then-recent Jericho/RVD bout out of the water. But that 2013 RVD/Jericho match and the Triple Threat you mentioned got a lot of love at the time.
======================
12. RVD (#25)- Made my list for being a hardcore and high flying hero when that was my favorite style of wrestling. Was one of my absolute favorites from 98-02, and then again in 2006. Thought he was the best wrestler in the world at times in the late 90s-early 2000s. Had a ton of charisma. Was "cool." Bumped big. Drew those sweet, sweet Baker Dimes. A trendsetter. For better or worse, a fairly big, yet often overlooked influence on much of modern wrestling. Plus I owned an RVD shirt!

My introduction to RVD came when he was barefoot flyer Robbie V in 1993 WCW. I was a Robbie V fan! Even way back then he was doing stuff I had never seen before. It seemed like he was in line for a nice little midcard push. Then he just vanished. And I have to admit I didn't give him another second of thought for 2-3 years...

Until discovering Rob Van Dam in the Apter Mags. I read about his matches and feud with Sabu. Like Pete, I thought he had a cool look. 

My proper introduction to Rob Van Dam came when he took on uber dork Lance Storm at Barely Legal. RVD was talented. That much was undeniable. But he was such a jerk! Dude really got under my skin. Couldn't stand him. He was like an ECW version of Shawn Michaels. My 2nd least favorite guy in the company behind only Douglas. Anyway, RVD cut an awesome heel promo after defeating the nerdy Storm and later helped Sabu beatdown Taz in what I thought was a confusing angle. 

Then he showed up in my beloved WWF as "Mr. Monday Night." Still couldn't stand him! Still a jerk! 

Weirdly enough, I sided with ECW in their feud with my beloved WWF. Well, aside from Lawler. I just thought it was messed up that the big, bad WWF would flex their muscles by invading humble little ECW. And of course that jerk RVD would be the pro-WWF turncoat. Though I have to give him props for the GOAT piledriver sell against Dreamer at N2R 97.

I finally came around on RVD when he had a "great match" against Sabu at ECW's May 1998 PPV. His "sellout" gimmick was being phased out and he was just too good to keep hating on. Then I went back and watched his feud with Sabu on tape. Blown away! So talented! The Flair/Steamboat of my generation! But I went right back to hating RVD lol. Again, Such. A. Jerk. 96-97 RVD might just be the closest anybody ever came to the obnoxious douchebaggery of 97-98 Michaels. And RVD did it first!

But by 1999 I was all in on RVD. For real this time! Only guys I liked more that year were Foley & Taz. I've told the story before of how RVD got some of the biggest pops from a per capita standpoint in wrestling history at 1999 ECW Arena shows. We loved him. "RVD" chants would frequently break out standing in line hours before the show. He was THE guy for the Philly fanatics. His TV Title reign was already becoming the stuff of legends. He supplemented that by occasionally carrying tag gold with Sabu as well. I loved his matches. Rob and Taz flip flopped all year as my choice for Best In The World. He made Jerry Lynn a star and had good matches with a bunch of other guys, most notably Balls Mahoney. Still kinda wish he would have dropped the TV Title to Jerry Lynn at the August Philly show and then taken the ECW Championship from Taz at Anarchy Rulz. That would have been perfect. I must also once again mention the awesome RVD/Sabu match I saw live at the October 99 ECW Arena show.

They were finally building him up for a frankly long overdue ECW Title opportunity against Mike Awesome when tragedy struck. RVD had been incredibly durable despite wrestling his dangerous style. Yet his luck finally ran out when he suffered a severe injury in a February match against Little Guido. RVD had to forfeit his TV Title after a 23 month reign. Meaning nobody got the rub of beating him. It also put the kibosh on his long awaited ECW Title push. 

I was rapidly falling out of love with ECW during RVD's absence. But I (briefly) came back when Rob came back. It was the August 2000 ECW Arena show. Rob had just returned and promised to debut his new finisher, the Van Terminator, that night. Now we had no idea what this Van Terminator entailed. Yet people were chanting "Van Terminator" in line before the show. That's right. People were chanting for a move they had never even seen before! There's over. Then there's RVD at 99-00 ECW Arena shows levels of over. He did indeed debut the Van Terminator that night. But then he left again for a few months over a contract dispute. By then I was more or less checked out on ECW.

RVD finally came to WWF full time in mid 2001. This news was another turning point. For 5-6 years any new signing was HUGE NEWS to me. Despite the fact that this was RVD I was like "meh. Of course he signed. Where else is he gonna go?"

But that apathy didn't last long. His WWF debut had the internet wrestling community buzzing.  And so were my friends. Every single one of them soon became an RVD fanboy on par with my own pro-Van Dam fanaticism. Most of them hadn't even seen ECW before.  And the ones who did only watched a show or two before dismissing it as "bush league." Yet RVD under the bright lights of WWF won them over immediately. He became not just my guy, but our guy. I was once again all in on RVD. For about the next 16 months RVD would be forever flip flopping with Angle as my favorite wrestler.

RVD had some killer hardcore matches with Jeff Hardy. Before long, he was getting Austin/Rock level pops as a heel. Big matches soon followed. He beat some major players on tv and was involved in the super underrated No Mercy triple threat main event alongside Austin & Angle. I'd have been totally fine with RVD winning that match, by the way. Hell, I wanted him to win. He had the moves. He had the swagger. He had charisma. He was in good shape and had a cool look with the airbrushed singlets. At Armageddon he was involved in Taker's best (only good?) match in 9 months. Push this man to the moon!

They didn't. I figured giving him the IC Title at WM 18 would be a consolation prize/build to better things. I fully expected him to have a dominant 8-10 month reign setting him up for a WWE Title match at WM 19. I mean, how could they not given his overness? But he lost the belt one month later to a returning Eddie Guerrero in a total shocker. I was SUPER pissed about this. Like you have no idea. Then he lost the KOTR final to stupid overpushed Brock Lesnar. 

But finally! A silver lining! RVD vs. HHH at Uncensored 2002 for the newly reinstated World Championship. This had been a dream match of dating back to 2000 when I thought they were the two best wrestlers in the world. OK, now they'll finally give RVD his big win. WRONG! He lost a disappointing match. Then he lost again in the inaugural Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series 2002, dangerously botching a frog splash on HHH in the process. I kind of figured he was done after that. But he did have a cool Title match with HBK not long after this. He also had a cool title match with Taker earlier in the year. 

I lost interest in/gave up on RVD at some point in 2003. It was just never going to happen. Stupid WWE broke me by not capitalizing on his overness when they had the chance. And I honestly thought Rob started dogging it. He began having "bad matches" for the first time in his life. Not that I blamed him! But now he was only a 2nd or 3rd tier fave out of residual good will. Put it this way. I thought he got injured in mid 2004. WRONG! He got hurt in early 2005. Just goes to show how little attention I was paying to someone who had once been a HUGE Baker Guy.

Although I should have remembered when he got hurt because towards the end of JBL's glorious title reign there were only 2 worthwhile contenders left- Cena & RVD. Now I'd have been totally cool with JBL holding the belt until 6/2/2020 but I didn't really expect that to happen. Cena was the obvious choice. But the fanboy in me talked myself into thinking RVD could be the guy. He obviously wasn't.

So RVD was out for a year. He came back to win the 2006 MITB and challenge Cena for the Championship at One Night Stand. I was obviously an RVD fan throughout this stretch. But I honestly wasn't as into it as you'd think. Of course I was glad Rob FINALLY won the big one. But it was a case of "too little, too late." Should have happened in 2002 or even 2001. Plus I didn't like the cheap way he won. It was more about furthering the Edge/Cena feud than giving RVD his long overdue moment in the spotlight.

Then RVD botched his own title reign. Good grief. The worst part? It proved WWE was right all along in not pushing RVD to the moon. And he settled back into a solid second tier fave, most notably during the ECW Originals vs. New Breed feud. Then he left the company after a feud with Orton.

I've only seen one match from his much-maligned TNA run- a perfectly cromulent bout with Matt Hardy on (I think) the same show Jeff Hardy showed up in no condition to perform.

When I joined PW after being out of the wrestling loop for 3 years I was shocked...SHOCKED, I tell you, to find RVD had as many haters as fans. Now there had long been RVD detractors. But they were the smarkiest of the smarks and their numbers small. RVD always had extremely high approval ratings from casual fans and even regular message board posters throughout the 2000s. As Pete mentioned, most everybody suddenly came back around on him during his 2013 WWE return. Even I checked out a few of his matches! I think he came back again to much less fanfare like a year later. Last I heard he was  in TNA getting them kicked off of social media or something along those lines.

Final Thoughts: That was a whole lot of words to basically say "RVD was awesome."

#21 Terry Funk
7 Votes-269 Points
One #1 Vote
Last Time: #26



#22 Mr. Perfect
10 Votes-266 Points
High Vote: #7
Last Time: #17



#23 Rey Mysterio
10 Votes-245 Points
High Vote: #2
Last Time: #20

What a big "fuck you" to @ness

Go Baker-man, go!

I'm sorry, I can't help myself.

May 8, 2020 21:44:41 GMT Lionheart said:

May 8, 2020 19:41:19 GMT 🤯 said:

Your last line made me realize, maybe a better description of Low Ki (vs. the love child of Brock and Tajiri) is a hybrid of RVD and Rey Mysterio. He has the cocky cool factor and unorthodox martial arts stylings of RVD, and the high flying speed and mystique of a 1996-era Rey. Tell me who wouldn't want to watch someone like that!

I wouldn’t go with that description though because Mysterio is boring and the opposite of an exciting fast-paced style like Ki.

Mysterio sucked for an entire decade that I saw him. I don’t care if he used to be good, he was still boring as Hell for a very long time and his legacy of boring was permanently cemented in my mind. Learn to understand what the younger generation had to go through watching him bore his way through hundreds of matches, folks!

I respect what he has done for the business and he seems like a great guy. I also enjoy his interviews. He was still very boring in the ring in every match of hundreds that I have seen.

What's your earliest recollection of Mysterio?

No real memories of Funk. I do love that he will be the last one standing when the business has collapsed.

Perfect: Same with this guy. His matches with Bret (KOTR and SS) were awesome sure and his final 4 appearance in 2002 was the best not "run" return ever.

Rey: Sorry Tanahashi this is the REAL once in a century athlete. Nowhere else could the world's largest midget be heavyweight champion.