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Post by PB on Apr 8, 2020 15:47:28 GMT
Sheamus is the only person from this batch on my own list but I considered quite a few others. Obviously Sheamus being Irish is a big factor on why I love him so much, but I think I'd like him even if he weren't. I think his look makes him standout, but goes against him in the long run because he just is hard to take seriously as the top guy. His mic skills are also only good. But in the ring he's fantastic. Hard hitting, but still explosive, creative, and technical. His match with D-Bry is a real favourite of mine, but his series with Cesaro was killer, as was his run as a tag team with Cesaro. If they built him up again properly, Sheamus vs. Lesnar is a dream match of mine, but I think with injuries he's happy to play a supporting role.
40. Sheamus 46. Ronda Rousey
I considered Becky Lynch a lot, and hope she could end up on my list in the future, but she just fell short. She was always my least favourite of the four horsewomen, but her run from Summer Slam to Wrestlemania 35 was so good she would have made my list no problem. Top level on the mic, having really fun and creative matches, and just dominating the entire show in a way no other woman ever has. Ever. But her run from Wrestlemania 35 to now has just been so meh. And it's not just the booking, which has been shit, but the matches have become very formulaic and a lot less interesting. Being paired with Lacey, Seth and Corbin straight after mania didn't help - but really only the Sasha Banks HIAC match stands out to me, and a great match with Asuka but in a terrible feud. Very disappointing to see them squander her to the point where she just isn't a favourite of mine anymore and that makes me sad.
Awesome Kong would probably make my top 100. Her career felt really tragically cut short as she never recovered from losing her baby. Which I totally understand.
Rusev is amazing and should be a world champion. Would definitely make my top 200.
I loved Hamada but only ever watched her in TNA so that's not really enough to make my list. She made lots of my fan fiction planned projects though.
If Melina were on the main roster in her prime now, she'd be main eventing pay-per-views. She was so good, so creative, and so charismatic, but was just ten years too soon to get the respect she deserved.
I really like Tommy Dreamer, but because I didn't live through ECW I just don't have the same emotional connection others do.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 8, 2020 15:52:55 GMT
198. Shayna Baszler: 1-26 (25)Fuck all y'all haters. This bitch is BAD ASS. Becky Lynch can suck a fart and thank Coronavirus for getting to hang onto her title. Seriously though, I still don't get the hate on Shayna. She can go, has a scary as fuck look, and a solid character. Maybe my viewing has just been too limited? But whatever. I'd rather have great tastes of things in small doses than taste something good so often that good tasting things become normalized I guess. Similar to how I'd buy Awesome Kong winning the men's Royal Rumble, I'd totally buy Shayna going toe-to-toe with Brock. Limited viewing is exactly what it is. I loved Shayna for the first six months of her NXT run but she got really old really fast when every match became more or less the same. That's ok if it's exciting and explosive like Brock, but when it's so methodical, it's excruciating. It's especially frustrating given the amount of more exciting talents who didn't get to do very much because Shayna was so dominant. I think she's very talented and has a huge upside, but they need to be more creative with her booking otherwise it's just overkill. Her run from debuting to beating Ember Moon to losing to Kairi Sane was incredible. Then they randomly had her win the title back and do nothing interesting in her second reign. Isn't Shayna a heel though? It's not a heel's role to excite you. In fact, excruciatingly methodical sounds like an awesome compliment for a heel. Really, it sounds more like Shayna is just taking the brunt of that same Reign of Terror/bad booking heat that HHH had to suffer through from late 2002 through early 2005.
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Post by PB on Apr 8, 2020 15:57:32 GMT
Limited viewing is exactly what it is. I loved Shayna for the first six months of her NXT run but she got really old really fast when every match became more or less the same. That's ok if it's exciting and explosive like Brock, but when it's so methodical, it's excruciating. It's especially frustrating given the amount of more exciting talents who didn't get to do very much because Shayna was so dominant. I think she's very talented and has a huge upside, but they need to be more creative with her booking otherwise it's just overkill. Her run from debuting to beating Ember Moon to losing to Kairi Sane was incredible. Then they randomly had her win the title back and do nothing interesting in her second reign. Isn't Shayna a heel though? It's not a heel's role to excite you. In fact, excruciatingly methodical sounds like an awesome compliment for a heel. Really, it sounds more like Shayna is just taking the brunt of that same Reign of Terror/bad booking heat that HHH had to suffer through from late 2002 through early 2005. Yeah but you still have to want to watch their matches. I ended up fast-forwarding hers and the women's division was my favourite part of NXT. Methodical was maybe the wrong word, I like boring technical wrestling as much as anyone. It's more that every match felt like the same recycled storyline that led to a boring match. I don't want her to be flashy or not be a heel, but being a heel isn't an excuse for being unwatchable. And I loved Triple H and JBL's reigns of dooms.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 8, 2020 17:15:40 GMT
Isn't Shayna a heel though? It's not a heel's role to excite you. In fact, excruciatingly methodical sounds like an awesome compliment for a heel. Really, it sounds more like Shayna is just taking the brunt of that same Reign of Terror/bad booking heat that HHH had to suffer through from late 2002 through early 2005. Yeah but you still have to want to watch their matches. I ended up fast-forwarding hers and the women's division was my favourite part of NXT. Methodical was maybe the wrong word, I like boring technical wrestling as much as anyone. It's more that every match felt like the same recycled storyline that led to a boring match. I don't want her to be flashy or not be a heel, but being a heel isn't an excuse for being unwatchable. And I loved Triple H and JBL's reigns of dooms. Can you direct me toward a sampling of some of her bad or unwatchable stuff? I'm curious now. Or is it literally just an over-saturation problem? Because I don't think I could watch ANYONE wrestle as often as these people wrestle these days. Probably even Brock to be honest. Thank GOD he only works like once every other year.
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Post by Strobe on Apr 8, 2020 18:35:15 GMT
Kamala - 17 // HOW AM I THE ONLY ONE?!?!? Kamala was a staple of awesome wrestling for me. I love the stories about how people thought he was a legit wildman and were scared of him. Who else had that kind of pull? As a kid, I only saw his 1992-93 stuff where he became basically a joke. That goes a long way with favourites. Just felt the thread could use one more posting of this GIF. Makes scrolling down the page that much sweeter.
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Post by iron maiden on Apr 8, 2020 18:55:34 GMT
As shocked as RT is about Becky I'm more shocked about Chyna. She might not have been the BEST wrestler but this is about favorites and she was instrumental in changing things.
166. Chyna: 2-38 168. Sara Del Rey: 2-38 188. Meiko Satomura: 1-28
I like Becky and I considered her and Bayley, but only 1 Horsewoman ended up on my list in the end.
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Post by PB on Apr 8, 2020 19:03:40 GMT
Yeah but you still have to want to watch their matches. I ended up fast-forwarding hers and the women's division was my favourite part of NXT. Methodical was maybe the wrong word, I like boring technical wrestling as much as anyone. It's more that every match felt like the same recycled storyline that led to a boring match. I don't want her to be flashy or not be a heel, but being a heel isn't an excuse for being unwatchable. And I loved Triple H and JBL's reigns of dooms. Can you direct me toward a sampling of some of her bad or unwatchable stuff? I'm curious now. Or is it literally just an over-saturation problem? Because I don't think I could watch ANYONE wrestle as often as these people wrestle these days. Probably even Brock to be honest. Thank GOD he only works like once every other year. I think for me it's more over-saturation than anything else. Though there are plenty of people who just find her boring and they may have better examples. It's actually why if Ronda is around the MMA Four Horsewomen could work so well. Shafir and Duke can be the lackeys that wrestle on Raw, but Ronda and Rousey would only wrestle on special occasions, and take it turn about so that they both felt like big deals.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 19:42:29 GMT
167. Ricky Morton: 2-38 Finding some of this guy's work has been on of the highlights of the WWE Network for me. The absolute best babyface in peril I ever saw, it was impossible not to sympathise for the guy. Truly one of the best sellers in the history of the business, and one half of the finest teams in the history of the business. A rock star.
182. Sheamus: 4-30
Crept onto my list. Extremely underrated big man that's credible, hits hard, and makes a believer of you. I go back-and-forth on the character. This will be a controversial take, but I think he's a pretty terrible promo. He has weird timing and never finishes his point with the correct change of cadence (Chris Benoit had the same problem). I know it's a cliche, but I really think a mute Sheamus with a manager could have been a Hall of Fame level talent. Still good enough to make my list, I'm a sucker for that style.
191. Nick Bockwinkel: 1-27
Cue: OMG WTF HOW?! Nah I get it, Bockwinkel is old in most of the network stuff and was past his best, although still pretty brilliant. To me, he's the perfect champion. Understated, full of class, no bluster, no bullshit. Just a straight badass who doesn't need to tell you he's a badass, doesn't need to scream and shout, he knows how good he is and he'll show it between the bells.
I also missed one from the last section:
219. Stan Lane: 2-18
Comfortably one of the finest tag wrestlers that ever lived. A big part of the foundation that held the glory days of NWA tag team wrestling together. Such an intelligent worker, and a guy that perfected the long-lost art of tag team wrestling.
People I considered/forgot:
191. WALTER: 1-27 I forgot about this dude, I think he would crept onto my list at maybe 45 or so. He represents everything I love about wrestling. He's believable, credible, carries himself in a way befitting a superstar, and has great matches. Love the stable too, I think this guy a total slam dunk and will continue to climb my list once his career really takes off.
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Some other notes:
- Becky Lynch getting one vote is continuing a theme. I think there's a palpable sense of dismissal toward modern WWE in here, and I get it. Becky Lynch though, in her prime, and standing as she does as one of the biggest female stars of all-time, receiving one vote, is incredible.
- Shayna Baszler isn't over, and I'll make a point on this. You can't just give someone the gimmick of a shooter, with no mouthpiece, and expect people to care. Why should I boo her? Because she's beating the crap out of everyone without breaking a sweat? She has no identity. There is more to Brock Lesnar than just his athletic credibility, he's actually a sensational performer who can sell with his face, his eyes, his body. Baszler is being wronged with her presentation (stick a penny in the jar for every time we've said that in the last 15 years). She needs something more.
- Chyna I think would have done better with women. She was certainly a guiding light for women looking for inspiration in an era where the top girls were positioned horrendously and well below the men. I would expect her to do very well with female fans and I'm not sure we have many here on PW. If she ever learned to work properly, she could have cracked my list. I certainly loved the character, she was a badass. Not a great worker.
- I still think Lacey Evans will be the biggest female star in the business. That intangible charisma, 'it-factor', to me she has it in spades. She's green, sure, but improving. And her charisma combined with her story makes for a compelling act.
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Post by Emperor on Apr 8, 2020 20:15:35 GMT
I don't see what everyone else is seeing in Lacey Evans. Did she suddenly become great when she debuted on the main roster? Because she was far from special in NXT. And I have a natural bias against wrestlers with a punch as their finisher. It's so lazy.
Marufuji, along with KENTA, was one of the top dogs in the NOAH Junior Heavyweight scene, and they reigned as tag team champions for a very long time. He was the style, the flash, the finnesse, to KENTA's unsubtle hard-hitting brutality. I gravitated towards KENTA a lot more, and honestly, I never really liked Marufuji that much. I probably wouldn't have paid him any attention at all if he wasn't tied so closely with KENTA as both partner and rival. That said, his G1 run a few years back was pretty good, and he had two memorable matches against Okada.
SANADA and EVIL are two of those upper midcard NJPW guys who are just there. EVIL has a cool, Undertaker-style presentation, but that presentation stops at his entrance. In the ring, he's just a generic hoss brawler, except not as good at it as Ishii or Suzuki or Shingo Takagi.
SANADA I don't understand at all. What is his character? What is his style? It's like he tries to be everything at once, but he's not exceptional at anything and his matches come off as a mess. First he's running around the ring doing planchas and springboard dropkicks. Then he's doing his goofy overdone comedy spot with the Paradise Lock, perhaps the most implausible move in wrestling. Then he's locking in his Skull End submission finisher ad nauseum. All the time being even more stoic than Misawa. I don't get him.
Meiko Satomura blew me away when she appeared in the Mae Young Classic tournament. Her first round match was incredible. Her basic technical ability was so sound and her execution so crisp and flawless, it's something I rarely see in the American female talent I am so used to watching. I watched a few of her Japanese matches, and while they didn't blow me away, she was still very impressive.
One person from the last batch appeared in my list, and he deserves his own post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:23:49 GMT
167. Ricky Morton: 2-38Shootist , Just said this about Ricky, but it's so very true....He is the example of how to do a babyface in peril, he did it perfectly every time. It didn't matter if it was against the Road Warriors, who of course he'd get sympathy, because of their massive size difference or The Midnights, although roughly the same size, he'd get it through their double teaming methods....then Robert gets the hot tag. All wrestlers should have to take a course on how to do tag team wrestling right...taught by Ricky Morton, Bobby Eaton and Arn Anderson, imo. He had a nice run against Ric Flair in singles for about a month...you thought for a second he was a viable contender, because of how that story was built. He can sell like a Mofo. 188. Tiger Mask: 1-28He was the prototype light heavyweight with Dynamite Kid. Their matches were special. Many wrestlers used this gimmick, but Sayama was unique and really developed that type of match. Flying, scientific, mat based storytelling at it's best. Not just high spot after high spot...there were reasons behind all of them and they meant that much more when they were hit. Of course, I forgot Bockwinkel
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Post by Baker on Apr 8, 2020 22:00:35 GMT
*Still loving all the comments. It's just too bad I'd never get anything done if I responded to every comment I wanted to. But I am reading them all and liking most! 5 wrestlers from my list dropped in today's batch. 4 of them were one vote wonders who I've been prattling on about for years. And continue to prattle on I shall! That's the real reason I cut today's reveal short. I've got a lot to say about these people. Turns out I'm just another spot monkey who needs to get my shit in. 15. Larry Zbyszko (#173)- Just might be my choice for the most underappreciated wrestler of all time. I suppose Larry Legend is an acquired taste. It's either that, or nobody watches early 80s WWF, dying day AWA, and early 90s WCW. I'd say it's 50/50 either way. Anyway, do me a favor folks. Fire up The Network or go to Youtube. Watch a Larry Zbyszko segment. Promo or match, it matters not. Because you'll be seeing an absolute master at work. With all due respect to my man Big WALT, Larry Zbyszko has long been the first name who comes to mind whenever the term "ring general" gets brought up. It makes sense that Zbyszko popularized the phrase "game of human chess" because Larry Legend mastered that game. He took his time. He was always in complete control of the situation. He didn't just play to the crowd. He conducted the spudheads with a mastery that has rarely been equaled. Zbyszko is probably a Top 10 promo guy of all time. He had his signature spots that never failed to pop me. He could also be wildly creative, coming up with some batshit insane stuff that popped me even harder. Most importantly, he spoke with conviction. I believed everything that came out of that man's mouth because HE believed it. During my Sandman writeup I mentioned watching his ECW Arena return every few months. Well, I binge on Larry Legend promos just as often. Honestly, Sandman's return and Larry promos are probably the wrestling videos I've watched the most over the past 7 years or so. I shall now go one step further and proclaim Larry Zbyszko is a Top 10 World Champion that I've seen. The ONLY thing that even makes this debatable is a lack of depth in challengers during his two glorious AWA World Heavyweight Championship reigns. Unfortunately, Larry was doing A+ work in a land of C- (at best) players. Again, Zbyszko lays claim to being the first guy I think of when another topic gets brought up- in this case, AWA Champions. Although I will throw a shoutout to Todd's boy and admit Bockwinkel is among my biggest US wrestling blindspots between 1980 and 2009. In addition to being the main reason I got hooked on watching dying day AWA every Thursday evening on a snowy, barely watchable channel out of Washington DC, Zbyszko also did record setting business opposite Bruno in 1980 WWF, and had a memorable run in early 90s WCW. The Zbyszko/Bruno tv match where Larry turned heel is a perfect match in terms of storytelling. I'll take that over all the flips in the world. Check it out. I think the date is 2/2/80. Larry's early 90s WCW run saw him form the awesome grizzled vet "Enforcers" tag team with fellow Baker Guy Arn Anderson. Naturally the promos were top notch. They also had a killer match with Dustin Rhodes & a returning Ricky Steamboat at a Clash of Champions. Zbyszko then joined one of my Top 5 all time favorite stables in the Dangerous Alliance. What a collection of talent that was! Larry did great work there, too. Even during the NWO era Zbyszko got "unexpectedly" over as an unlikely babyface. Now of course it's only obvious that Zbyszko would get over as a good guy despite the look and demeanor of a particularly prickish principal and 17 straight years of being a bad guy. Why, you ask? I already told you. Because Larry Legend was a master conductor in The Game of Human Chess. Long Live Larryland~! *Yep. That ran long as expected. Be back later to cover the rest of my picks + near misses.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 8, 2020 23:04:29 GMT
I gotta jump on the Tiger Mask love. Granted I've really mostly only seen his work against Dynamite, but I just loved how he moved. Just like Bruce Lee. But then with the mask, he looked like something ripped straight outta the comic books. Must've been mindblowing in real time.
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Post by Emperor on Apr 8, 2020 23:05:49 GMT
YANO! TO! RU!Toru Yano, the True Ace of New Japan Pro Wrestling, placed #41 on my list, but he's going to get a write-up worthy of a Top 10 placer. You wanna know why? I'll tell ya why! Toru Yano is unique. He's original. He's a breath of fresh air. He is one of the highlights of the G1 Climax every single year, despite being a comedy jobber. He constantly freshens up his act. He is, dare I say, the greatest comedy wrestler of all time?! Everyone knows that NJPW is my favourite wrestling promotion, but it's a very serious promotion. Full of tough guys strong-styling each other or battling in 30+ minute epics. It gets a bit much, even for me, and especially during a match-intensive period such as the gruelling G1 Climax. A man like Toru Yano is essential in such tough times. He brings light relief to the fans, but also to the wrestlers, who essentially have a night off when working Toru Yano. In that sense, he is a Japanese hero as well. All hail Toru Yano. The G1 is full of fantastic matches and high drama, but I don't believe anyone has consistently entertained me in that tournament more than Toru Yano. His matches are must-watch, and they're not all entertaining, but about 90% of them are. Not only that, you can make a case for being one of the greatest wrestler ever, certainly greatest G1 wrestler. Look at this resumé: August 1st 2019 - Toru Yano defeats Jon Moxley in 5:08. Jon Moxley's first defeat in the G1, and first defeat in the company. Only three other men have defeated Jon Moxley since his NJPW debut. July 24th 2019 - Toru Yano defeats Jay White, 3:04. Former IWGP Heavyweight Champion. July 13th 2019 - Toru Yano defats Tetsuya Naito, 3:42. Current IWGP Heavyweight Champion, IWGP Intercontinental Champion, and best wrestler in the world. August 8th 2018 - Toru Yano defeats Kenny Omega, 9:04. At the time IWGP Heavyweight Champion. July 21st 2018 - Toru Yano defeats Kota Ibushi, 8:23. August 1st 2016 - Toru Yano defeats Katsuyori Shibata, 1:05. One minute five seconds! Improving on his 4:01 victory over the same opponent in 2015's G1. He's a perfect wrestler, yet he's always getting better. August 11th 2015 - Toru Yano defeats Kota Ibushi, 0:50. Could very well be the shortest match in company history. That's not to mention his ridiculous winning record over Minoru Suzuki. Can't find the exact number online, but it's something like 4-1 or 5-1. It doesn't matter if a good chunk of those wins are by countout - not Yano's fault his opponent's can't get in the ring on time. With their feet taped together. Or their arms taped to the metal crowd barrier. Toru Yano, Champion Eternal. Buy his DVDs!
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Post by Rogue on Apr 8, 2020 23:08:20 GMT
I missed the first round, but here are the ones of mine that have made it so far:
No. 49 - Chyna No. 48 - Kyle O'Reilly No. 46 - Mickie James No. 39 - Big E No. 31 - Roddy Strong
I feel Roddy doesn't get nearly enough credit for the work he does in Undisputed Era, he's the workhorse of that group, yet he's always the sacrificial lamb when one of them needs to lose a title, take a pinfall or generally be the punching bag. He's the most solid technically (although Cole is damn close), but the thing that lets Roddy down is his woeful mic skills, he doesn't have that much charisma on the mic, bless him. He can get a good match out of anyone though, and that's a skill in its' own.
One the topic of UE, 3 of the 4 made my list, Kyle O'Reilly really grew on me, wasn't a fan at the start but the guy is solid, both in the ring and on the mic. He won't ever set the world alight but he's rock solid.
Big E, I just love him. Big stupid goofball, yes. But very capable in the ring and I am more than happy to have him included on my list.
Chyna - I'd never seen anyone like Chyna, when she came on the scene. She did her best work I think with Eddie Guerrero, but that's not taking away from her solo accomplishments. (yeah I know you'll crack a joke about One night in Chyna, but whatever). It's sad that a poorly judged porn movie is what a lot of you remember her for, because she was so much more than that.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 8, 2020 23:17:05 GMT
I missed the first round, but here are the ones of mine that have made it so far: No. 49 - Chyna No. 48 - Kyle O'Reilly No. 46 - Mickie James No. 39 - Big E No. 31 - Roddy Strong I feel Roddy doesn't get nearly enough credit for the work he does in Undisputed Era, he's the workhorse of that group, yet he's always the sacrificial lamb when one of them needs to lose a title, take a pinfall or generally be the punching bag. He's the most solid technically (although Cole is damn close), but the thing that lets Roddy down is his woeful mic skills, he doesn't have that much charisma on the mic, bless him. He can get a good match out of anyone though, and that's a skill in its' own. One the topic of UE, 3 of the 4 made my list, Kyle O'Reilly really grew on me, wasn't a fan at the start but the guy is solid, both in the ring and on the mic. He won't ever set the world alight but he's rock solid. Big E, I just love him. Big stupid goofball, yes. But very capable in the ring and I am more than happy to have him included on my list. Chyna - I'd never seen anyone like Chyna, when she came on the scene. She did her best work I think with Eddie Guerrero, but that's not taking away from her solo accomplishments. (yeah I know you'll crack a joke about One night in Chyna, but whatever). Â It's sad that a poorly judged porn movie is what a lot of you remember her for, because she was so much more than that. I love Big E from what I've seen as well. He's my favorite New Day member, and I can't wait for the day he's a title belt warmer for Brock. He'd put up way more of a compelling challenge than Kofi.
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Post by Baker on Apr 8, 2020 23:23:51 GMT
24. Teddy Hart (#191)- I've been to a lot of wrestling shows. Something like 60-70 between October 98 and July 06 alone. Plus about 4 before and 5 after. I've been lucky enough to see most of the US-based greats live. Out of all those wrestlers, Teddy Hart was my absolute favorite to see in person. Seeing Teddy live was a visceral experience. You definitely "had to be there" to get the full Teddy Hart Experience. The way I felt about seeing Teddy was the way I imagine other people felt about seeing "Loose Cannon" Brian Pillman or perhaps Sabu when he was still an underground cult favorite. Teddy brought an aura of unpredictability, and an aura of reality to the proceedings that I have never experienced from any other wrestler. Teddy elicited real emotions from people. You either passionately loved him or despised him with all your fury. There was no in between with Teddy. And it created a magical atmosphere in tiny buildings all around the East Coast and beyond. The dueling chants during Teddy matches weren't for show. They were real. Whether they loved or hated him, people were legitimately invested in Teddy. He made wrestling real again. It was for this reason that the furthest I ever traveled to see a wrestling show was a 3 hour drive to a JAPW show in northern New Jersey just to see Teddy Hart take on Homicide. So what made Teddy such a polarizing figure? Why was the atmosphere for his matches so magical? Because literally anything could happen when Teddy showed up. Hell, you didn't even know if he would show up! Teddy gave no fucks. I'm probably in the minority here, but I find a rebel without a cause far more interesting than a rebel with a cause. A rebel with a cause has an end game in sight. They are, after all, working with a goal in mind. The rebel without a cause is truly unpredictable. And Teddy was the ultimate rebel without a cause. ANYTHING was possible when (if!) Teddy showed up. He was chaos incarnate. The most famous example of The Teddy Experience is his match with Trent Acid in CZW during the peak of Teddymania in early 2004. Check it out if you can find it. I don't even know where to begin in chronicling Teddy's....err....let's call them "eccentricities." The cat thing? His real life fanfic promotion? His....other real life fanfic promotion? Fashion choices? Legal troubles? "Hard Left?" Punking out Punk? The ROH incident? Getting fired by WWF as a teenager? Getting fired by WWF again? Meh. I'd be here all day if I started. So just google "Teddy Hart" and descend down a rabbit hole of madness. I did once have this theory that Teddy Hart was a modern day Andy Kaufman engaged in the greatest long con in wrestling history. That bubble was burst long ago. Turns out he really is THAT insane. Another "old man yelling at clouds" rant (with potential controversy to boot!) incoming.....Another thing I loved about Teddy is he hearkened back to a time when I could not imagine pro wrestlers existing outside of pro wrestling. If President Trump signed an executive order abolishing pro wrestling (as once happened in a PB draft), I could see most of today's wrestlers comfortably settling into a boring office job, perhaps even in Scranton, PA. Yet look back in time. Could you see Macho Man punching the clock? Ric Flair working a 9-5? Hulk Hogan? I certainly can't. Teddy Hart falls into this category. This is a man who simply has no place in "the real world." Unfortunately, there is a downside to this, as his legal troubles prove. But one cannot deny that Teddy is an old school "larger than life," capital C Character. I haven't even touched on Teddy Hart's wrestling ability yet. I'm honestly pretty neutral on Teddy's in ring chops. At his best, he's basically AJ Styles in oven mitt pants. At his worst, he's pretty much the poster boy for flippidy excess. Either way, it makes for GREAT highlight packages. Another highly recommended Teddy match is the Teddy & Jack Evans vs. B-Boy & Homicide Cage Match from a Philly JAPW show featuring a cameo by Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart(!). That one was a blast live. ======================= Everybody go read Emperor 's Toru Yano post. Yano was another late(ish) cut from my list. But he rules. Literally the Best In The World at what he does. Probably ever tbh. The man is a rare wrestling genius. Maybe I will right more about him later.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 8, 2020 23:26:21 GMT
How do people post about Teddy Hart and not mention him training cats to do moonsaults!?
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Post by Baker on Apr 8, 2020 23:31:03 GMT
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Post by Baker on Apr 9, 2020 1:05:47 GMT
Gonna try finishing up the rest of my picks and near misses here. This is bound to be long.... Lacey gained international headlines when she told a Canadian Mountie off for living under a rock. Typical nasty mountie lacking in handsomeness, bravery, and strength. Nothing at all like the man I'm fixing to write about.... 23. Quebecer Pierre/Jean-Pierre Lafitte/PCO (#188)- Had 3 separate good runs spanning nearly 30 years. Let's talk about them... I was a Quebecers Guy from Day One. Jacques Rougeau was already one of my all time favorite wrestlers and I quickly took to his big, beefy, athletic sidekick who came out of nowhere to rule. The Quebecers are a lot like the Midnight Express in that they were top notch squashers with great double teams, equally great antics, and an AMAZING theme. So it makes sense that the 'Becers are my 2nd favorite tag team of all time behind only the Midnights. The Quebecers were fantastic squashers who did cruel and unusual things to jobbers. They also had excellent competitive matches with the Steiners, Harts, and Others. I popped so hard when they beat the Steiners for the belt via some Toru Yano-level b.s. They were just a joy to watch in the ring. Bonus points for aligning with Borga & Yoko to form the awesome (but sadly short-lived) Foreign Fanatics stable/Survivor Series team. Pierre left for about a year and came back as a pirate named Jean Pierre Lafitte who happened to be the kayfabe descendant of famous pirate, Jean Lafitte. In a rarity for WWF at the time, his past as a Quebecer was acknowledged. That past + the fact that he's a pirate(!) out to avenge his wronged ancestor(!!) who cut introductory vignette promos from a treasure room(!!!) meant he was already in my Top 5 before ever even setting foot in the ring. His in ring game only boosted him further. I just loved watching him wrestle. He was a big, beefy dude who flew around like a cruiserweight and bumped like Cactus Jack. His Action Zone match with Adam Bomb was one of the first times my sports entertainment-loving ass was like "that was a good match!" His feud with Bret is sooo underrated. People bash the "jacket theft" storyline but I find it relatable. I'd be pissed too if somebody stole my jacket! It also fits the JPL character. What is a pirate if not a thief?? Their IYH match rules and you should all check it out. LOVED JPL! Stupid Diesel....Stupid Clique....ruining everything good.... So for like two decades I'd talk up Pierre on message boards. Me: "Hey, remember Pierre?" Normal People: "No." Me: Thousands of words explaining why Pierre was awesome. Yet against all odds he had one of the great comebacks in wrestling history over the past few years. This forgotten WWF midcarder from what was widely considered a dark age some quarter century ago inexplicably became A Thing in his 50s. He has reinvented himself as "The French Canadien Frankenstein," won the ROH Championship, and may actually be a bigger star now than ever before. At the very least, his cult following is now far bigger than the Cult of One I had carried on for over 20 years. 25. Ludvig Borga (#198)- Ivan Drago in wrestling form.....The original Brock Lesnar....But better. Because Evil Foreigner gimmick=instaheat. Borga was such a badass. Another guy I 100% believed in. I'll admit I wasn't sold on him at first. His finishers were weak. And Finland? Really? It was very "Team Iceland" in Mighty Ducks 2. But the guy grew on me real quick. "In ring ability" wasn't even really a thing to me yet. I was a character/sports entertainment guy all the way. But I loved watching Borga wrestle. He had the best punches! Even 1993 me knew this. I even had pet name for his patented kidney punches- "Stiff Borgas."  I have no idea where I got that. I wouldn't even know what "stiffness" as a wrestling term meant until 1998! Anyway, his squashes ruled. Ditto for his "anti-American" promos. There is a common misconception that Borga's gimmick was "evil environmentalist." That's not true. The environmentalist thing was literally just one promo. I LOVED his matches with Jannetty at Summerslam 93 (launch punch~!) and Tatanka on Superstars where Borga ended Tatanka's nearly 2 year undefeated streak! Seriously people. Watch the Borga/Tatanka match if you can find it. It's a good match with a GREAT post-match angle. Borga was briefly on top of the world. I viewed him as the de facto leader of the aforementioned Foreign Fanatics stable (even above WWF Champion Yokozuna!) simply because Borga had the biggest mouth. He main evented a Survivor Series with his Foreign Fanatics team and was all set for a main event feud with his natural rival "Made In The USA" Lex Luger. Then he got hurt. This injury, coupled with an infamously bad attitude, would lead to him leaving WWF. He never did much else of note. A few years back I wrote about every single Ludvig Borga WWF match I could find in the old PW Match Review thread + a few of his matches from Japan and elsewhere under his real name of "Tony Halme" or simply "The Viking." Outside of WWF, I was particularly fond of his match with Shootist's boy Masa Chono. But some great man has gone a step further than me. This guy is in the process of writing about every single Borga/Halme match ever committed to tape! If interested read about it here.... segundacaida.blogspot.com/2018/05/complete-and-accurate-ludvig-borga.html*Meh. Failed again. Dreamer + near misses before I go to sleep tonight.
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Post by Baker on Apr 9, 2020 3:10:00 GMT
39. Tommy Dreamer (#178)- Gotta admit I'm a little disappointed in Tom Tom's finish. Was hoping he could get to 50 points. This was before I remembered PW's biggest ECW enthusiast Kilgore isn't much of a Dreamer fan. A shame. Because Dreamer is one of my favorite babyfaces of all time. Here's why.... I am a child of Vince McMahon. Unlike many wrestling fans I neither downplay this nor run from it. If anything, I embrace McMahonism. The WWF of (more or less) 1987-1996 will always have a special place in my heart. Deep down, the wrestling I grew up on will always be the way wrestling "ought to be." Yet it is not without flaws. Perhaps my biggest pet peeve as a young wrestling WWF fan was the never ending parade of unbeatable superman babyface champions. Probably the single most boring character trope there is. The NWA/WCW way of dirty heels on top with valiant babyfaces giving chase is better. Fact! Most of my favorite babyfaces have been hard luck underdogs. Foley, 2000s Benoit, 2000s Michaels, old man Flair, old man Funk, 1995 Barry Horowitz, Tim Storm. You get the picture. Basically one Rocky-style underdog story after another. Who wants to root for the overdog? Not this guy. That's boring. RT maybe this explains why Becky fared so poorly? Perhaps if we did this a year ago when she was still Rocky in Rocky 1 (or at least Rocky II) she would have finished much higher? Now that she's Rocky at the beginning of Rocky III nobody cares? Just a theory.... Anyway, where was I. Oh yeah. All the top ECW babyfaces represented a different character archetype (I might go more in depth with this later). Dreamer was the working class hero. Basically another version of Rocky in Rocky 1. He wasn't the biggest or the strongest. Nor was he the fastest or most athletic. He wasn't even the most hardcore! But he did have the biggest heart. The man was ALL heart. That's Tommy Dreamer in a nutshell. If he was a Planeteer, he would definitely be Heart. Dude gave it all he had every single night. Getting back to the underdog thing....Dreamer lost. A lot. He was forever getting screwed. All these losses and screw jobs made you want to see him finally succeed all the more. And even when he won he lost! Beats Raven after 2.5 years. BAM! Jerry Lawler invades the ECW Arena! FINALLY wins a championship. BAM! He must share it with his arch-rival Raven. FINALLY wins the ECW World Championship. BAM! Loses it minutes later. There was pathos in the Tommy Dreamer character. You couldn't help but root for the guy (unless you were Kilgore  ) Dreamer's origins set the stage for his character. He was initially dismissed by ECW's mutant fanbase as a "pretty boy." It would have been the easiest thing in the world to simply go with that by turning Dreamer heel, wimping him up, and embracing the "pretty boy" aspect of his character. But Heyman and Dreamer were like "Nah. We're gonna do this the hard way." And by sheer grit, determination, and HEART they accomplished their goal of making Dreamer a beloved babyface. It took, what, less than a year? WWE tried similar experiments with Cena for a decade and Reigns for half a decade with much less success. Continuing the story in a way, Dreamer was never my favorite ECW wrestler. While I always liked him, he was never even in my ECW Fave Five....until the promotion's final full year, 2000. By that point ECW was rapidly becoming a shell of its former self. Wrestler after wrestler "sold out." Not muh boy Tommy! He became The Guy Who Stayed. The first half of his WWE run was a big batch of whatever. He was a 5/10 "just there" guy for years. I honestly forgot he was there most of the time. On the rare occasions he popped up on Raw or PPV I'd be like "Oh cool. It's Tommy Dreamer. Forgot he was still here. He was the man in ECW!" But I got into him again around the time of One Night Stand and then even moreso once WWECW became a thing. Of course I loved the ECW Originals faction. His "last chance" run with Christian in 2009 was among the last wrestling stuff I watched for years. I also like how nearly every wrestler loves Tommy Dreamer. Ditto for Dreamer's Matt Striker-like enthusiasm towards pro wrestling in general. It's so obvious that Tommy LOVES the professional wrestling. I was about to put him over for being one of the few true genuine good guys in professional wrestling. No embarrassing outside the ring stuff here! Then I remembered his admitted plot to ASSASSINATE Paul Heyman at a Wrestlemania. So it turns my man Tommy is not quite the wholesome good guy I had always viewed him as. My man has a darkside after all. What a shame. ================================ Wrestlers From This Batch Who Made My Top 200 List In Order From Nearest Miss To....Furthest MissToru Yano Sgt. Slaughter MVP Lacey Evans Kamala (WALTER) Shane "Dean" Douglas Emperor jTjohncenaGOAT Todd and Big Pete all did a great job of explaining why Yano, Kamala, WALTER, and Lacey rule.
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Post by Shootist on Apr 9, 2020 4:54:29 GMT
Hmm, only two from this batch made my top 50, but a ton of honorable mentions. 31. Tommy DreamerTommy earned his stripes the hardway (literally) in ECW. His first 10 months or so were what you would expect as the Philly crowd was all over the pretty boy gym rat. His caning by The Sandman was one of the more visceral moments in ECW history and helped turn him into The Innovator Of Violence he would become. What he lacked in technique he made up for with genuine passion, like an ECW version of Ricky Morton as the babyface in peril. His long series with Raven will go down in lore as one of the most unique feuds of all time and the culmination one of Heyman's finest moments as a booker. 43. Shane DouglasIn a world of greys in ECW Shane was a standout as a traditional classic heel. Serviceable in the ring he could still pull the strings on the crowd, see his four way dance with Jericho, Scorp and Pitbull II from Heatwave '96 as an example. His psychology using Pitbull's broken neck with the crowd was second to none. He was great on the mic and another one of those guys who you believed meant every word. He pretty much kick started a new company with his promo work, who can say that? I missed a few from the first batch: Perry Saturn- One half of my favorite ECW tag team. He was the ring general of The Eliminators and could turn you into a pretzel or fly with the best of them. Pretty much fell off the rails once he left ECW with fleeting moments in the Flock and some good matches with Goldberg. Hayabusa- Defines the popular term in these parts "wrestling astronaut." Seeing his work in FMW in the late 90's was an experience, a more refined version of Sabu. He's sadly a cautionary tale of what new style wrestling could do to someone. IRS- He was pretty much overshadowed by Barry Windham in the US Express when I first saw him, bland as can be as babyface. He flipped the switch as a heel and Vince's repackaging as IRS did it's job in amplifying his persona. He even got me a little pissed at times in his feuds with Bossman and Tatanka. One of the best midcarders in 90's WWF, just solid in ring and on the mic, a must to fill out any roster. Lance Storm- ECW's tag team specialist a'la Arn Anderson. Both with Candido and the Impact Players with Credible he was the in ring anchor and gave ECW that pure wrestling cred that gets ignored. He also adapted well in the big 2 providing some great mid card sports entertainment as apart of Team Canada and as "serious" Lance Storm. Lacey Evans- Really the only modern talent I pay attention to now, WWE should be building the women's division around her. She has an incredible look and owns her character. Lacey is also solid in the ring and her right hand is in Bobby Eaton territory when it comes to working punches. Sgt. Slaughter- I only caught the end of his babyface run in the 80's but he was massively over. He just had the perfect look and delivery in his promos to invest in his character. His turncoat angle in 1990 was a lay-up when it came to getting heat. Sarge was incredible in either role as he naturally had that commanding presence with either the babyface fire or heel heat. Shinya Hashimoto- He was a great choice to be the ace of NJPW in the 90's due to his reliability and ring work. He fit Inoki's mold by not looking out of place against more legit guys like Nobuhiko Takada and Naoya Ogawa. His brainbuster was death and laid in the chops. He would have been even greater if he took care of his health in later years. Nick Bockwinkel- I agree that he truly is one of the great Word Heavyweight Champions, he fit the part so well. Another guy who's cadence and tone in his promos were so spot on, my YouTube binging is in watching Bock promos at times. What's even more incredible is that nearly all the good footage of Bock was when he was in his 40 and 50's and he was so good. He was an amazing bumper and seller and had a great sense of pacing and psychology. Too bad he was slumming it in smaller territories during his true prime in the 60's so we could take the full scope of his greatness in. Tiger Mask- I still find his stuff captivating even today. I just put myself in a 1982 fan's mindset and get blown away every time. He was also one of the better practitioners of martial arts in a pro wrestling setting, something I'm usually against. In the world of wrestling astronauts Tiger Mask is Alan Sheppard, a true trailblazer. Kamala- Count me in as being legit afraid of him when he came into the WWF to challenge Hogan. Add into the fact he used a top rope splash called Air Africa and I truly though he was going to kill someone in the ring. Kamala did suffer though from poor timing being a stop gap for the Andre feud then being a golden era relic in the early 90's when WWF was really going over the top with gimmicks. Larry Zbyszko- Baker more than summed up my feelings on Larry Legend. I still haven't gone all in on his AWA stuff yet but he never disappointed in JCP and WCW. In a different universe he would have never went to the AWA and would have been the perfect fill in for Tully Blanchard in a 1989 Horsemen revival. We got a taste of that filling in for Arn in War Games and later teaming with him in 1991. He had a key role as the scapegoat in the potential GOAT War Games in 1992 as well, too bad his babyface run in the aftermath was so disjointed. He would come back in 1994 and have a feel good moment beating Steven Regal for the TV title. His color commentary is right up there with the likes of Bobby and Jesse as well. He was the polar opposite though truly sounding like the smartest guy in the room and being more understated and calculating.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 4:55:53 GMT
From my list:
#50 - Albert/A-Train #49 - Rhea Ripley #44 - Big E #39- Sheamus #38 - Alberto Del Rio #36 - Sgt. Slaughter #35 - Aliester Black #34 - Rusev
Albert is a guy I always enjoyed no matter what gimmick WWE strapped to him. My favorite WWE interaction of him is A-Train. He was a big brute who gave guys that were on their way up a legitimate victory. He was always under appreciated/misused in WWE so it was no surprise to me when he went to Japan and tore it up. Rhea Ripley is quickly becoming a current favorite of mine. I probably put her on my list prematurely but I absolutely love her look and she had a great 2019. She should be a star on the main roster. Big E is the heart and soul of the New Day, A funny guy inside and outside of the ring as well. I've been a fan of his debut. His time as bodyguard with Dolph and AJ Lee was tons of fun and then he became lost as a singles guy because he was still green and hadn't quite found his personality yet. Getting put into a group saved his WWE career and it is only a matter of time before Vince realizes he has something special and pushes him to the moon. ADR is someone who used to be a big favorite of mine but has dropped out of favor. Wouldn't surprise me if he fell out of my list entirely in the future but I had to put him because I was a big advocate of his from 2010 to 2014. He just got passed over by guys with more talent like Punk and DB. I really thought he'd become the next big heel but he never fully tapped into his aristocrat character. My favorite moment of his is winning the WHC as a babyface against Big Show to a big pop. Sgt Slaughter for the longest time was known to me as the legend who WWE would always bring back for reunion shows and that was it. Also, knew of him as WWF commissioner and turning heel on America in the 90's. It wasn't until I was introduced to the site PWO where I read up how great he was in the 90's. My interest was peaked so I checked out his work and I was blown away. He was an amazing bumper and brawler for the WWF who had great matches against Pat Patterson, The Iron Sheik, and Bob Backlund. A truly underrated wrestler and one of the few guys I put on my list that was before my time just because of how impressed I was by him. Aliester Black placed as my #35 because he is my current favorite performer in WWE. His theme song and entrance is badass as hell and he has an impressive looking finisher. I am hoping Heyman can tap into some of that character because he has something special on his hands.
I'm tired. Will be back to post about Rusev. Was hoping he'd place higher because he is awesome.
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Post by Lionheart on Apr 9, 2020 5:52:49 GMT
#165-#200 165. Becky Lynch: 1-39I am incredibly surprised that Becky only got one vote, especially with all the female love going on with these lists. She is one of the best female competitors I know and I always enjoy her matches. She wasn't top 50 to me, but she wouldn't be too far off. 169. Awesome Kong: 2-37I recall Kong being awesome back in TNA. I don't know what the deal is with her AEW run though. Mind that I'm only starting the January 8th episode so I have some catching up to do and she's only been in squash matches so far mostly. But she has been awful. A one woman botchamania that's incredibly sluggish and awkward, even in these short minutes-long matches. Any claim to a top 50 list she may have had with me has been long lost by this AEW run so far. 170. Toru Yano: 2-37Emperor pretty much covered in this...in extreme detail. Yano was #23 on my list. I wish I could put out a post as good as Emperor did on him. I've only known him since the start of the G1 last year but he quickly made headway on my personal favorites list. He is not the most athletic or the most solid of a worker, but he is legitimately a very good one and has put out some brief moments of legitimately fantastic wrestling. The real focus on his act is the comedy which he excels at to the highest degree, but I feel that the reason it holds up so well is that he is able to back it up with those bursts of excellent wrestling skill between comedy spots. I have no idea how his comedy is so good, but this man must put a lot of planning and dedication into each and every match. He somehow makes running to the corner and removing the ring apron every single match unique in some way each time and it remains exciting. I am not worried at all that it will ever get old, because the master innovator Yano has a seemingly endless bag of tricks. 172. Rusev: 2-36Rusev is pretty damn good as well, though I have seen very little of him. One of his United Stated of Nakamurica matches on a PRESHOW for a PPV was my 10th favorite match of the year for a good while. Incredibly underused talent, but what's new with WWE? 175. Melina: 1-35Melina is fantastic but I barely remember anything about her other than that and her great entrance since it has been so long since I've seen her. 178. Tommy Dreamer: 2-32The HEART and SOUL of ECW. Missed my list at #73 because he isn't the most amazing wrestler. But he managed to consistently find a way to impress and entertain me nearly every match with little athletic ability. 73 is nothing to scoff at. Love this guy. 180. Orange Cassidy: 1-31I like the guy, but who the heck voted for him this high? Come on. A single vote placed him higher than Sheamus, who got 4 votes. He's good, but not good enough for a placement that high. 180. Naomichi Marufuji: 1-31It would appear that Marufuji is one of my lone wolves. I placed him at #20. I understand where Emperor was coming from in his analysis. He was a bit overshadowed by KENTA, but anyone would be. He still managed to impress the Hell out of me with KENTA there, which makes it all the more impressive. I feel like Marufuji would be a high placement on anyone's list if he simply had more exposure. He is one of the best workers around and his acrobatics aren't just empty air like a lot of high-flyers these days. I encourage everyone to find some of his matches and watch them. You won't be disappointed. In fact, here's one. Enjoy: Kenny Omega vs Naomichi Marufuji - DDT Ryogoku Peter Pan 2010 Summer Vacation182. Sheamus: 4-30#78, so on my runner-up list. Not quite in contention for my top 50, but he's a great fella. Underused in WWE. It blew my mind when I started watching again and saw he has been basically demoted from the main event to a tag team jobber position, which is a role that shouldn't even exist for anyone in the first place. He was incredibly over with the fans as a world champ and he should have stayed in the main event picture. As others have said, a ferociously impactful force that is a joy to watch. 183. SANADA: 1-30Oh wow, SANADA was a lone wolf too? #21 on my list. He is super over in NJPW. I guess there are a lot fewer NJPW fans here than I thought. I feel I have to respond to what Emperor said here. Not everyone needs a character. Gimmicky stuff is well and good, but it's nice to have an alternative sometimes. SANADA can pull this off because of his image and mannerisms. They just exude personality. It makes you want to get behind him. You say he's not exceptional at anything, but I'm not sure that's true. He just doesn't show it off every match. He went toe to toe with Zack Sabre Jr. in the G1 match, wrestling Sabre's style the entire match. And he nearly did it just as damn well, which caught me by surprise. Then his G1 match with Okada was one of the most tense and exciting of the entire tournament. He isn't the best at anything, but he's great at everything. He isn't the guy you go to watch, but he supports anyone on the roster really well and puts on great matches with them almost every time. 185. MVP: 1-29Didn't make my list, but I always really liked him. Not sure why since he has a character I would typically hate. Something about him just drew me in. I think it's just his passion for the business was so immense that you could tell. WWE dropped the ball with him big-time with some stupid losing streak gimmick that they never even capitalized on because they are idiots. 185. EVIL: 1-29Emperor was a bit hard on EVIL, my #22. His incredible entrance and the cool Undertakeresque atmosphere is a spectacle for sure, but it doesn't end there. I feel like he kind of makes it hard for himself to live up to the entrance but he channels a lot of emotion into his moves. I'd agree he isn't as solid a worker as Ishii, but he's got a Hell of a lot more personality and that earned him the spot on my list. 191. WALTER: 1-27Pretty cool guy. Entertaining. Not a top 50 wrestler. 197. Chris Sabin: 2-26I am surprised someone else voted for Sabin, but the Motor City Machine Guns were the best part about TNA nearly every show. He was #37 on my list.
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Post by Baker on Apr 9, 2020 17:43:34 GMT
#141-#164
141. Alex Shelley: 4-46 142. Stephanie McMahon: 2-46 143. Road Warrior Hawk: 2-46 144. Road Warrior Animal: 2-46 145. Tomohiro Ishii: 4-45 146. Kevin "Diesel" Nash: 4-45 147. Vince McMahon: 2-45 148. Kofi Kingston: 5-44 149. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams: 2-44 149. Genichiro Tenryu: 2-44
151. Pete Dunne: 2-44 152. Seth Rollins: 2-43 153. Ricochet: 2-43 154. Akira Taue: 2-43 155. "The Mountie" Jacques Rougeau: 1-43 156. Jeff Jarrett: 2-42 157. Terry Gordy: 2-42 158. Jack Swagger: 2-42 159. Velveteen Dream: 2-42 160. Bushwhacker Butch: 1-42
161. Gail Kim: 2-41 162. Bushwhacker Luke: 1-41 163. Santino: 1-40 164. Al "Leif Cassidy" Snow: 2-39
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Post by PB on Apr 9, 2020 18:01:43 GMT
It's official, WWE's booking is killing everything. First Roman, then Becky, now Seth. All should be much higher, but all make us go 'meh'.
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Post by Baker on Apr 9, 2020 18:12:43 GMT
I know what you must be thinking. Surely this is a misprint. There's probably supposed to be a 1 in front of both 2's. Or more likely a 0 behind both 2's. Yes. That would be a reasonable assumption. But it's wrong. Against all odds, Double J received only two votes. I can't even.... *Much Later* I have never been more disgusted by PW. That's it. You're all fired. Except PB. He can stay. I will even forgive his poor taste in music because he has proven himself to a gentleman and a scholar by being the only PW poster other than yours truly to show exquisite taste in wrestlers by voting for Double J. PB may have poor taste in music. But you know who doesn't? J-E-Double F. J-A-Double R-E-Double T. That's Jeff Jarrett. The world's greatest singer. The world's greatest entertainer. And the world's greatest wrestler. What is about the last part that you folks don't understand? Shame on you. And to think I once considered some of you friends....
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Post by PB on Apr 9, 2020 18:53:10 GMT
So yeah, Jeff Jarrett is the one of only two guys from my list this time, and as Baker, says, shame on all of you. I was a huge TNA fan back in the day, and Jarrett, alongside AJ Styles, was Mr. TNA for so long. He was just the ultimate heel who would do whatever it takes to make sure that you hate him. Honestly, TNA from 2004-2007/8ish was my favourite thing ever at the time, and Jarrett was like the final boss every babyface had to go through. Then I went back and saw his WWE run, and he was awesome. Then he became MMA JArrett which was some of the funniest stuff in wrestling history. Then Bruce Prichard made him cool again and he got a Hall of Fame run. I just love everything he does. I haven't watched his WCW run, in the fear that I'll hate it, but Jeff is gold to me. Kofi is the other. I always respected Kofi and enjoyed his matches, but thought IC title runs when it meant little was his ceiling. Then The New Day came along and showed that he could do everything. Super charismatic, able to be face and heel, and great in the ring, one of the GOAT tag teams runs. Still, with all that, he'd be top 100, top 150 at best - similar to Alex Shelley or someone. Then comes one of the best Wrestlemania matches ever - and genuinely this time, not for lols like Taker/AJ. They somehow made the biggest babyface in wrestling the biggest heel, and then the crowd just decided as a collective, this year we want Kofi - and with a bit of good fortune, that's what happened. The atmosphere in the gauntlet match, then the Elimination Chamber, then the tag team gauntlet, and then the title match at Mania are all some of the best wrestling moments in the past decade. Just such an incredible run, so richly deserved. 40. Sheamus 42. Kofi Kingston 46. Ronda Rousey 49. Jeff Jarrett Shelley would make my top 150 I'm sure. Great X Division guy, great Tag Team guy, but just something miss him to stop him from going to the very top level. Pete Dunne could make my list in the future if he continues as he's going and breaks fingers a little less often. Steve Williams seems like he'd be right up my street, but I've seen very little of him. Seth Rollins should be on my list, but he's just been booked so badly it's so hard to care about him. Watching someone wrestle meaningless 20 minute matches week after week to fill three hours of tv will just kill anyone as far as I'm concerned. I respect all that he does but just nowhere near a favourite. Hard to imagine how Jack Swagger could be amongst anyone's favourite anythings.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 19:03:49 GMT
157. Terry Gordy: 2-42
The muscle of "THE" stable. They showed you exactly what you needed to get heat, a mouthpiece, a worker and a big man. Check, check and big time check. Gordy would develop into much more than just a big man, he became a very good worker. He is a wrestling prodigy after all. What were you doing at 14? Gordy was taking on guys twice his age and doing just fine. He became a big star in Dallas and then everywhere he went, he was "the guy" or one of the main guys. He's a case of too much, too soon. Enormous size, huge travel schedule, substance abuse, the physical toll, all played parts in his death. Gone by age 40. When he was in his prime, he was great and even after he had some physical setbacks, he was still better than many. One of the first big men that could move like a much smaller wrestler.
His tag work with Dr. Death is great, but him and Stan Hansen is better. Depending on who he's working in Dallas, he's got some great matches there too.
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Post by Kilgore on Apr 9, 2020 20:06:08 GMT
Al Snow: I didn't vote for Al, but Headamania running wild in ECW was super fun, it seems like a collective dream in retrospect, the jaded ECW fans letting go and enjoying one of the dumbest things ever, truly a looser and sillier fanbase than they ever get credit for.
Terry Gordy: Dismissed him for a long time because I only knew an older Bam Bam, and he looked so fucking goofy, but I'll be damned if he didn't absolutely rule in his day.
Road Warriors: Hawk > Animal. It's a little weird that they ended up with the same amount of points, but also endearing. Linked together forever. Anyway, Hawk had better singles matches, looked cooler, sounded cooler and was really nice to 8 year old me at an autograph signing. RIP, King.
Kevin Nash: The Big Mang is both NOT GOOD and also super underrated. I've always done this Hall/Nash comparison, Hall has a reputation as a good big man worker, Nash always a lazy terrible wrestler, and this is pretty accurate, HOWEVA, if you compared Hall's Top 10 matches and Nash's Top 10 matches, they'd be very comparable. So, like, was Hall that much better?* Nash has a solid Top 10 match list. True Bret and Shawn are a huge part of this equation, but still, that's the case with Hall too. Anyway, wrestling be fucking damned because Kevin Nash rules because he looked cool, was cool, was part of the coolest thing that ever happened in wrestling, did funny shit, and just looked like a badass the entire time which really is like 80% of wrestling at the end of the day. An ICON, forever underrated.
Vince McMahon: I would not vote for Vince as a wrestler, but I get it. His batting average for good matches has to be really high, right? Not a lot of matches, but would often deliver in a big spot. True, they needed hundreds of bells and whistles, but he was a middle aged man so roided up he could barely move, what do you want from him?
Jacques Rougeau: I was never a big Jacques guy, but find it forever entertaining the love Baker has for him. Jacques is just a type of heel that I hate, like in a bad way, I don't want to watch him, and this is the heel Baker LOVES. And that's pretty cool. Beat Hogan clean in Montreal, no one should ever forget this.
Alex Shelley/Ricochet: Shout out to these guys where if I was 10 years younger they probably would have been my guys. Alex Shelley for his brief god heeling in ROH (and has to be considered one of the bigger missed opportunities, right?) and Ricochet for THE MOVEZ, which like I have no idea if there's any psychology to what he does, I don't know that I've ever seen a full match, but the first time I saw that double back flip he would've had lifetime fanhood from me.
Jeff Jarrett: I did not vote for Jeff Jarrett. I will never vote for Jeff Jarrett.
*Yes, Hall was that much better because the average Hall match would blow away the average Nash match, it's just that at their best it's much more comparable than most would assume.
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Post by iron maiden on Apr 9, 2020 21:23:19 GMT
FUCK DOUBLE J. LOL None of those listed in this grouping made my list but a couple of notes from me because why not: I totally forgot: 141. Alex Shelley: 4-46 I would have placed him rather high if I'd remembered. I love Stephanie and she's actually impressed me in ring, especially that SS match against brie Bella, but I didn't lump her in as a wrestler for some reason. 142. Stephanie McMahon: 2-46 I like Seth. I like his ring work though I find it a bit stale now that WWE capped it. I thought about putting him on my list but for whatever reason didn't. That's pretty telling in itself. I think if this were favorite wrestlers performing right NOW, he'd have definitely placed and high but lots of old school guys and women I couldn't throw over for him. 152. Seth Rollins: 2-43 I was one of few who enjoyed Swagger. I remember when he won the title from Jericho both Rogue and I were cheering. That being said, he did not make my list. 158. Jack Swagger: 2-42 Depending on how he is handled this next year he could very well make my list next time we do this. Currently, I'm on the fence with him. 159. Velveteen Dream: 2-42
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