Brief intermission before returning to BROCK... IS... WRESTLING

This just makes me love the William Regal/Tajiri pairing even more:

1. Ric Flair (#10)- No surprise here. Ric Flair has been my all time favorite wrestler ever since I first thought of having an all time favorite wrestler way back in late 95-96. I also considered him the undisputed GOAT for like 20 years and would argue this with anybody. I still consider him the GOAT like five days out of seven. Too bad I find few things more boring than GOAT debates nowadays.

With all due respect to Lex Luger, Ric Flair is the true total package. He could wrestle or brawl. He was hated as a heel and beloved as a face. He could talk and he could work. He could make you laugh or get super serious. He's one of the most charismatic wrestlers to ever lace up the boots. Few can match him when it comes to longevity. He wrestled everybody and everywhere as the last true touring champion. He is one of the all time great feud men. His robes were resplendent. He held a world championship every single year from 1981-1996, which I believe is still a record. He perfected the art of carrying guys. Along those same lines, so much of what we consider 'good wrestling' today was influenced by Ric Flair through the early smarks who considered Flair the gold standard in professional wrestling. Flair's signature spots are legendary. "Wooing" for Flair Chops will never get old. Flair had more catchphrases than anybody this side of The Rock. Ric Flair has become a pop culture icon who is now known outside of the pro wrestling bubble. Simply put, Ric Flair is as pro wrestling as it gets. And this is his our story. 

After all that gushing, you might assume I was day one on Ric Flair. Wrong! I was indifferent at best to Flair during the first two years of my fandom. Even though he was usually their champ, I weirdly viewed Luger and Windham as the REAL stars of NWA. I guess because they were booked stronger? Flair vs. Hogan never even crossed my mind back then. And why would it? Hulk would obviously wipe the floor with the NWA's Honkytonk Man equivalent in 5 minutes. 

It wasn't until Flair turned into a good guy during his feud Terry Funk that I became a Flair fan. And I loved him during the Funk feud, which I gushed about enough in my Terry Funk writeup. Following Flair/Funk, I lost interest and access to NWA. As an extreme NWA/WCW casual, I still didn't see Flair as their top guy. That was now the domain of Sting.

Fast forward to Flair coming to my beloved WWF in late 1991 as the Real World Champ. Loved this gimmick. It was perfect for my trolling, heel-loving ways. I was constantly annoying my friends by ironically calling Flair the Real World Champ while throwing in my usual Hogan bashing. It was a neat little thing they had going there. But it would end the same way every Hogan feud ended- "lol Hogan wins." I "knew" this. So I was just enjoying the ride while it lasted. Then a miracle happened...

When Flair won the WWF Championship at the 1992 Royal Rumble! Never in a million years did I expect that to happen. I'll never forget my Hogan-loving, Flair-hating friend Vogel breaking the news to me. He looked like he was about to cry. Ric Flair was now my #1 guy. He had done the impossible by winning the WWF Championship and holding it for more than a week as a bad guy. Loved the Flair/Perfect duo. Flair eventually lost the belt to Macho Man. But at least it wasn't Hogan! And then Flair won the belt again! But quickly he lost it to....midcard for life Bret Hart. Ugh! That was weird and bad. Then that dastardly Mr. (Im)Perfect sent Flair packing. But not before he crammed a ton of goodness into an 18 month run.

I never thought in terms of all time favorites in those days. I was very much living in the now. But if somebody had asked me in 1993 who my all time favorite wrestler was, Flair already would have been a strong contender. It would have been between him, Honky, Jacques, Taker, and Perfect.

Flair went back to WCW as a babyface. I watched WCW regularly by this point. But I'm pretty sure it took me months to realize he was now a good guy. He spent much of that time doing this Flair For The Gold talk show, which I remember being mostly weird and bad. WCW never quite mastered that type of sports entertainment. Flair was still pretty cool, though I honestly preferred Regal & Cactus to Naitch. Business picked up when Flair won the WCW Championship from Vader. I was into his reign. But then he lost it to The Hulkster. Yuck! I went off WCW pretty much instantaneously. I even kinda sorta went off Flair, now dismissing him as "old" and "passed it." Plus he really did retire.....for a minute or two.

Fast forward to the fall of '95. The Flair/Arn feud was one of the big things that got me back into WCW. They did a great job at getting over the importance of their first ever match. After a series of swerves it's best not to think too much about, the Horsemen rode again! *Randy Milligan voice* Yeaaaah, boyyyyy! There was no turning back from this point on. A perfect storm of events would soon transpire.... 

Flair's renewed real life push with the rebooted Horsemen coincided with my tape rental spree and Apter Mag discovery. Before long, those tapes I rented every single weekend were based mainly on two questions- "Is Flair on it?" and "Are the Midnight Express on it?" Flair was God in tape form. His matches with Funk, Steamboat, Vader, Luger, both Garvins, and Savage, plus all those War Games, Thunderdome Cage Matches & the 92 Rumble, were among the best I had ever seen. Meanwhile, I discovered the Apter Mags were (and apparently always had been) pushing Flair > Hogan. The PWI Almanac confirmed Flair's greatness. He was NWA/WCW Champion waaaaay more than I had ever realized. My youthful "Flair > Hogan lol" trolling now morphed into "Flair > Hogan FOR REAL!" The Apter Mags (and weirdly even WWF Magazine) backed me up. Up to this point, the idea of Hulk Hogan not being the undisputed GOAT never even crossed my mind. I had no choice but to give the devil his due. I mean, he was obviously Mr. Wrestling. But now I realized Hogan was only the GOAT to rubes and marks. While REAL fans KNEW Ric Flair was the TRUE Greatest of All Time. This is where Flair became locked in as my all time favorite wrestler- a position I have not wavered from in nearly a quarter century. This is also where I became a(n insufferable) pro-Flair preacher.

To continue with the religion theme, Flair's matches back in real time became religious experiences. I was SO invested in everything he did. Even a throwaway tv match with a cold Alex Wright became a matter of life and death. Flair could still go, too! Even in his late 40s, Flair had me hanging on the edge of my seat in meaningless Worldwide bouts with the likes of Das Wunderkid. 

I've told the story before of how the Summer of 96 was more or less the Summer of Horsemen. Homemade tie dye Horsemen shirts! Even the few remaining Flair dislikers in my clique would now grudgingly admit he was the GOAT. I was very persuasive! This was also the period where we would Flair Chop each another whenever the opportunity presented itself. Because we were idiots. Before long, everybody in my neighborhood clique started walking around with their arms crossed on their red chests, Undertaker-victim style, to avoid being left open for a Flair Chop. Good times.

Of course, Flair failing to capture the WCW title from Hogan got me to swear off the promotion forever. Yet, as I mentioned before, if WCW had given Flair and the Horsemen just a little bit over the NWO I would have come back. But they didn't. So I didn't.

Flair could do no wrong even if he did work for The Enemy. The first comp tapes I ever bought were ordered from a guy who ran a local free wrestling hotline circa late 97-early 98. Those three early tapes were a 1995 Jim Cornette shoot, and Best of NWA Volume 2 & 3. Best of NWA Volume 2 & 3 was basically Best of Flair & The Midnight Express. I was obviously cool with this. My big takeaway from these tapes was experiencing the full greatness of the early incarnations of Flair's Four Horsemen. Best of NWA Volume 3 weirdly ended with an hour or two of Flair's "Real World Champion" footage from WWF (lol), including my longtime choice for GOAT promo when Flair showed up on Paul Bearer's Funeral Parlor to drop some truth bombs on Hollywood hack Hogan. 

Back in real time, Flair was on the outs with the Evil Empire. I had just gotten online. Flair fighting the power behind the Evil Empire only made him more popular with me and my new internet wrestling buddies. Hotline Guy was CONVINCED Wrestlemania 14 would feature the double main event of Vince/Austin and Michaels/Flair for the belt. Of course I got WAY too excited about this possibility. Stupid Hotline Guy getting my hopes up.....

Flair eventually came to terms with Bitchoff. BOO! But his September 98 return on Nitro was the first WCW thing I sought out in over 2 years. I had some guy throw it on the back of a comp tape he was making for me. I was not disappointed. Slick Ric in all his crazy glory.

I got into 80s territorial wrestling tapes in a big way circa 2000-01. Once again, there was Flair. This time going from town to town against all the local stars and making them look like a million bucks. The GOAT was now lapping the field. His competitors didn't stand a chance. I even watched an episode of Nitro! Ok, it was a replay. But still! The reason? I read online that Flair beat Jeff Jarrett to once again become WCW Champion. Flair beating Jarrett for the belt obviously should have main evented two or three different Starrcades, but I'll take what I can get. 

I was working the night Flair returned to WWF. This was about 3 years before I got my first cellphone. So my friend Will actually called my workplace to get ahold of me. He told me to turn on Raw because Ric Flair was on. I did as instructed. Marked out. And that's when we started turning Raw on every Monday at our restaurant job. This was an entirely new wrestling fan clique than the one I had in the 90s. But I was obviously still pimping Slick Ric. All of them soon came around on Naitch (even the Michaels fanboy!) just as my 90s clique had thanks my endless stream of pro-Naitch propaganda. 

I was such a huge Flair fanboy. It's a little ridiculous in hindsight. Around 2000-2001 I began bleaching my hair blonde in honor of My Hero. I kept up with it for about 5 years. Some people would even have you believe that's why most of my hair has fallen out. I, however, blame it on bad genetics. As if Slick Ric would ever lead me astray!

I don't think I ever liked anyone in any field of entertainment as much as I loved Ric Flair from 1996-200?. I'm not exaggerating when I say he was my hero. I've always had this nagging idea in the back of my head that I will permanently go off wrestling (and wrestling forums) when Flair or Vince die, never to return. More than anyone else, they are the performer and creator who got me to fall in love with this stupid business and kept me coming back for more.

I was probably the high vote on Flair's 2000s WWE run. He rarely, if ever, left my Top 10 current favorites list. He was still good for a great match or two every year. He was doing a low key version of what Funk did in the 90s as a middle aged and crazy bleeder. I'd get so annoyed when ignorant fools would deride Flair as being "old" or "passed it." Dammit! That's Ric f'n Flair! Show some respect! I bought the Flair dvd set. Same goes for the Horsemen set. I had seen most of those matches before. But it didn't matter. Flair was the ultimate drawer of dimes. WM 24 is the only 'Mania I ever seriously considered attending. I still kinda regret not going to see Flair's (awesome) farewell match with Michaels. As luck would have it, my ultimately failed postal career began the very next day.

When I went wrestling list crazy in the late 2000s to correlate all my pro wrestling thoughts into a definitive thing, Flair was either #1 or #2 (behind Michaels) when it came to my Top 250(?) favorite matches of all time. 

WOOOOO!

Why did I think anyone other than Flair could be Baker-man's#1!?

#10 Shawn Michaels
16 Votes-445 Points
One #1 Vote
Last Time: #9

Back to back 9th place finishes for HBK. Michaels is the first of four wrestlers to receive 16 votes. Nobody topped that number.

Whoa.

Someone loves the Boy Toy.

Speak out!

Jun 22, 2020 3:22:20 GMT 🤯 said:

Whoa.

Someone loves the Boy Toy.

Speak out!

I somehow missed that Shawn’s name dropped last night. I am the number one vote for HBK. While he isn’t my favorite to watch anymore, he was my favorite wrestler growing up from his return in 2002 until he retired in 2010 and was an essential part in my fandom which can’t be denied. I might post something longer soon. We’ll see.

HBK is my second favorite wrestler of all time behind The Rattlesnake.

So #9 does not make me happy. I had him 3 on my list because I was being a douche and put Matt Hardy (oh yeahhhhhh) at #1, but HBK is the man. Hated him as a heel, loved him as a face. Sweet Chin Music is epic. He was able to come back from back surgery and have an even better second career then first career. The dude was the total package. His heel work in DX was top tier heel work. HBK in Canada was probably the craziest thing in sports. It was on some REAL HATE YOU shit. The dudes a legend.

KING KID, just remember I'm awesome and you love me or at least don't think I suck anymore.

I had HBK at #29 which might be low in hindsight, but is pretty accurate when I look at my list. If we did this list 20 years ago I don't know if he would have even made it on it, because for years I hated him. YEARS!!! Sure the Screwjob probably had a lot to do with it as Bret is my #1 (always), but I just hated his shitty attitude. It was his return and final years that really made me appreciate his in ring work, ability and storytelling.

You won't find Stone Cold or Taker on my list. Neither were favorites of mine. I respect the heck out of Taker, even more so after watching The Last ride documentary, but he just was never my cup of tea and I can't ever put aside my dislike of SCSA aside. One of the few things Rogue and I disagree about as she loves him.

Ric Flair (continued)- I'm probably alone on this, but I'm still a little bummed out WWE never gave him one last quickie "thank you" run as World Champ in the 2000s. Beating HHH at some point in 2003 would have been ideal. They even teased it during a memorable Raw encounter between the two in Carolina.

20. Shawn Michaels (#9)- HBK finishing so high on my list is a minor miracle. Like iron maiden , I loathed HBK for years. He was down there with Hogan & Warrior on my Least Favorites list. 1995-2003 Baker would be so appalled at my current self ranking Michaels this high on a favorites list that surely a swift kick in the butt would ensue if the secrets of time travel were known to my past self. Anyway, let's talk about how I pulled a multiple 180s on good ol' HBK....

I was not Rockers fan. I was so not a Rockers fan that it literally took me years to remember Michaels=Blonde, Jannetty=Brunette. I just didn't care enough to learn who was who. I also think they're extremely overrated in wrestling lore. They teamed together in WWF for three and a half years and never once officially won the tag titles. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see them finish high on GOAT tag team lists. Yeah, they were good workers. But so were Koko B. Ware & Barry Horowitz. Yet you never see them on any GOAT lists.

You know how every old school wrestling fan remembers seeing the infamous Rockers split where Michaels threw Jannetty through the Barbershop Window? Not this guy! I don't know if I just wasn't watching WWF for those few weeks, or whether I still just didn't care about anything Rockers, but I have no recollection whatsoever of seeing it in real time. Also, my timing on the whole Michaels/Jannetty feud was off for years due to Jannetty's multiple absences, which of course I took no notice of in real time.

Anyway, I first became a Michaels fan a few months after the Rockers split due entirely to the "Shawn Michaels has left the building" gag. That was a great bit. Michaels was a perfectly cromulent 'annoying' midcard heel. Yet even as a Michaels fan, I wasn't really buying him as IC Champ. Even though I liked him, I don't think I really bought into him as a top(ish) guy until the Razor feud after he lost the IC Title.

From about Wrestlemania 8-Wrestlemania 11 Michaels was a solid bottom of the top tier/top of the 2nd tier favorite. Yet, even though I remained a Michaels fan, I was still underestimating his star power. I remember thinking he was a weird choice to win the 1995 Royal Rumble. And Diesel/HBK was NOT a Wrestlemania worthy title match. That felt like more of a third from the top match to me in real time.

Then the bottom fell out. Shawn Michaels turned good guy and bucked tradition by becoming even more obnoxious. HBK was one of the most unlikeable babyfaces I had ever seen. Vince's constant verbal blowjobs certainly did not help matters. I quickly grew to despise Michaels.

However, this is also when I first started taking note of "good wrestling," and I had to grudgingly admit Michaels was great in the ring. He wrestled a half step quicker than everybody else in the Fed. He bumped big and mastered the art of what I would later call "epic selling" which really made his matches seem like these grueling wars. 

But the super push became more obnoxious than ever with HBK returning from "career ending injuries" seemingly every few months. HBK simultaneously eliminating over 1000 pounds of beef in Vader & Yoko before going on to win the 1996 Royal Rumble was the final straw. That's when he went from hated to...err...HATED.

This is where I started coming around on Bret after years of dislike simply because I saw him as the lesser of 3 evils in his wars with HBK & Diesel. I was also really into HBK's feud with one of my true wrestling heroes in Owen Hart. The HBK concussion angle was huge in my neck of the woods. While their matches had me hanging on the edge of my seat.

HBK vanquished Owen in a stellar #1 Contender Match at IYH February. Then it happened. HBK beat Bret in a 62 minute snoozer to fulfill his stupid "boyhood dream." Ugh! Gag me with a spoon.

I was conflicted on HBK's title reign even in real time. On one hand, I loathed it as I loathed the man carrying the gold. On the other hand, I was SO invested in an "it's still real to me" kind of way. Even random HBK matches against midcarders on Raw or Superstars captured my undivided attention. They became a matter of life and death. I'd always talk myself into thinking Workrate Hogan could lose. To his credit, Shawn's top notch bumping and selling got me to suspend my disbelief. I was too biased to ever admit Shawn was THE best wrestler in the business. But even HBK hating 1996 me would have grudgingly ranked him in the Top 5. He had so many classic matches that year. I also loved his super underrated feud with Camp Cornette. I had HBK's 1996 title reign high on my Greatest Championship Reigns countdown list.

Michaels actually became even more obnoxious in 1997. I didn't even think that was possible. But then DX came along. Couldn't stand 'em! I soon learned the only thing worse than unbeatable babyface Shawn Michaels was douchebag heel Shawn Michaels. Few wrestlers in history ever had more heat with me than Michaels from WM 11-WM 14. Yet the classic matches just kept on coming, with the first Hell In A Cell vs. Taker being the cream of the crop.

Then came the infamous Montreal Screwjob. Not gonna lie. I probably would have thrown something at Michaels if I had attended a WWF show during this time. The hatred was real. Instead I briefly got banned from AOL after three anti-HBK rants. The final straw coming when I wrote "HBK is a pussy" in my beloved AOL wrestling chatroom. That was a fun one to explain to the parents. 

Then Shawn Michaels was forced to retire and I rejoiced. Fuck him and his stupid back. Good riddance. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out. And a thousand other cliches. Man, sometime I miss caring about this stuff. Does anybody still care about wins and losses in wrestling? Or is it just all about who can be the most PC on Twitter? 

During Shawn's 4 year absence I went back and watched a lot of classic 90s WWF matches. Michaels was obviously great in the ring. But not as good as Bret! I now officially rated Bret as the best in ring WWF wrestler of all time and Michaels 2nd. Shawn would occasionally show up on tv, usually as a referee wearing obnoxiously short shorts. 

Michaels came back in 2002 to groans from yours truly. I didn't want to see him back in any capacity. Yet he hadn't lost a step in the ring. His return match with HHH was my 2002 MOTY. It actually annoyed me how good he was. Then he won the Championship in the first Elimination Chamber. The only thing more gross than that were his hideous brown pants. Then he went over Jericho in an awesome match/feud because of course he did. Nothing had changed. HBK still won all the time. And I still hated his guts. Even after good PPV matches with Flair & Orton that nobody else remembers. 

Up to this point HBK is probably my 3rd LEAST favorite wrestler of all time behind only Hogan & Warrior. Yet I paradoxically would have thrown him in at #200 on my Big Favorites List just because I had been a pretty big HBK fan from about WM 8-WM 11. 

Which brings us to the night everything changed- Survivor Series 2003. The unthinkable happened. I found myself rooting for Shawn Michaels! He was simply too good to keep hating on. And I was genuinely gutted when he lost for Team Austin. Did I finally grow up or finally give up? Even today that's not a question I can definitively answer.

Hell had frozen over. I had become an HBK fan. He was a Top 10 fave in 04-05. I was into his battles with Evolution. LOVED the Angle feud. Even loved the Hogan stuff. Nu HBK had the decency to lose. Hell, he actually lost too much. It was crazy. I was even hyped for the DX reunion in 2006, which is super weird given the fact that I had always loathed every previous incarnation of DX. And yep. Nu DX sucked too. I went off HBK (and even HHH) pretty quickly. That weird period of mid 2000s HBK fandom was already becoming an embarrassing regret. Then HHH got hurt....

And HBK took it upon himself to single handedly carry Raw in 2007. He had an awesome brawl on Raw with Edge right after HHH went down. Then came the epic Rumble finale with Taker. That was followed by the Cena match at 'Mania where I was rooting every bit as hard for Michaels as I had rooted against him for all those years. Let's face it. 2007 Cena was basically the new version of 1996 Michaels. HBK had a bunch of other good matches that year, culminating in a forgotten classic with Orton where they made the most of a stupid-on-paper "Superkick is banned" stipulation. Shawn Michaels was my #1 favorite wrestler in 2007. He was also my choice for WWE MVP. He had the best matches. He was the best babyface. He had incredibly become a sympathetic character after losing all those big matches.

And guess what? He was even better in 2008! Where he was once again my #1 favorite wrestler and my choice for WWE MVP. Everybody justifiably praises the year Jericho had. But Michaels was even better! The Jericho/HBK feud is obviously a classic. But HBK was killing it even before that with the Flair classic at 'Mania and the Batista stuff while Y2J was doing.....whatever in the midcard. HBK was STILL the best in the business. People mock his acting and sad faces but I lapped it all up. He fucking sold shit. And selling shit made it all seem important. HBK made wrestling real again to my super jaded self. I enjoyed the little JBL feud. Then came The Big One with Taker....

This was one of the best built programs WWE EVER had. I genuinely believe that. This match was years in the making. They had classics back in the day but hadn't wrestled one on one in 11 years. WWE showed great restraint in holding off on the match for over 2 years after first teasing it during the GOAT Rumble finale in 2007. This was the Last Dream Match as far as I was concerned. I was super hyped for it.....
 
But did not love it. I didn't even really like it. The hype was far greater than the match imo. It was honestly just Michaels/Angle II in my eyes with the Law of Diminishing Returns kicking in. It's actually one of the things that put me off wrestling. My theory at the time being "If I can't even enjoy a Michaels/Taker match at Wrestlemania that everybody else loves, what CAN I enjoy?" I had become too jaded. And decided maybe it's time to give up this wrestling thing forever. So I slowly weened myself off. It worked too! For a few years, anyway.

Final Thoughts- Michaels is either the best or 2nd best (behind Flair) in ring performer I have ever seen. (He surpassed Bret when it comes to sheer volume of good/great matches way back in 2005). The very fact that the once hated Shawn Michaels made my list is perhaps the ultimate testament to his greatness. If he can win ME over he should have won everybody over. Whether loving or loathing him, I was always invested in Michaels matches. He had a way of sucking me in both as a character and as an in ring performer. 

#8 The Rock
16 Votes-483 Points
High Vote: #2
Last Time: #7

The Rock tied for the most votes received with 16. He was also the last wrestler who failed to appear on a ballot during the voting stage. Think the first 10 voters had Rock on their ballots. Yet it actually took a pretty long time for him to crack the Top 10. A lot of the early voters 'only' had him in the 30s on their respective lists. I was among this group, placing Rock at #33 on my own list.

Glad Rock surpassed HBK but guys like CM Punk ain't got no business bring this high.

Show some love for that 98 Breakdown triple threat with Shamrock and Mankind.

I had The Rock at 21. I liked him but didn’t love him. He was the perfect compliment to Austin during their feud, but outside of that I was always meh on him.

Jun 23, 2020 14:06:25 GMT @ness said:

Glad Rock surpassed HBK but guys like CM Punk ain't got no business bring this high.

Show some love for that 98 Breakdown triple threat with Shamrock and Mankind.

Is Rock the low key greatest triple threat participant ever?

That cage one with Shamrock and Mankind is second only to the Vengeance 2002 one, IMO (as far as Rock triple threats go).

Then there's the ones with HHH/Brock in 2002 and HHH/Show in 1999 that were far more entertaining than they had any right to be.

Any other Rock triple threats I'm sleeping on?

Jun 23, 2020 14:20:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:06:25 GMT @ness said:

Glad Rock surpassed HBK but guys like CM Punk ain't got no business bring this high.

Show some love for that 98 Breakdown triple threat with Shamrock and Mankind.

Is Rock the low key greatest triple threat participant ever?

That cage one with Shamrock and Mankind is second only to the Vengeance 2002 one, IMO (as far as Rock triple threats go).

Then there's the ones with HHH/Brock in 2002 and HHH/Show in 1999 that were far more entertaining than they had any right to be.

Any other Rock triple threats I'm sleeping on?

Didn't Summerslam 2000 have one with HHH and Angle? Dunno if it was any good.

I guess most of Mania 2000 since Show was eliminated like 5 minutes in.

Triple. Threat. Countdown.

Jun 23, 2020 14:25:08 GMT @ness said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:20:35 GMT 🤯 said:

Is Rock the low key greatest triple threat participant ever?

That cage one with Shamrock and Mankind is second only to the Vengeance 2002 one, IMO (as far as Rock triple threats go).

Then there's the ones with HHH/Brock in 2002 and HHH/Show in 1999 that were far more entertaining than they had any right to be.

Any other Rock triple threats I'm sleeping on?

Didn't Summerslam 2000 have one with HHH and Angle? Dunno if it was any good.

I guess most of Mania 2000 since Show was eliminated like 5 minutes in.

Triple. Threat. Countdown.

Do we count SummerSlam 2000 if we're counting WrestleMania 2000 though? It was mostly a singles match after Kurt got concussed, right?

24 .) Shawn Michaels
Cracks my Top 25 potentially solely on the backs of two matches: IYH#2's IC title victory over Double J, and SummerSlam 2002's return upset over Triple H in an unsanctioned street fight. Then, it doesn't hurt that he has a slew of awesome matches under his belt, even if they're not AS beloved as those two. Other Top 10 favorites for me include (in no particular order):
- his RAW match against Shelton;
- his no holds barred title defense against Diesel;
- his WMXIX match against Y2J;
- his RAW WHC title defense dream match against RVD (even if the finish was bullshit);
- his WMXIV title drop to Austin (I feel like the only one who doesn't think this was a bad match?!);
- and his three big matches against Taker (WM25, WM26, and the BB HIAC... in that order for me)

That all said, I've never been a fan of his character in either run. The only thing character-wise HBK has ever done that I've marked out for is him superkicking all the staff on his way down the hall in some random mid-2000s backstage segment.

=====

32 .) The Rock
Sooo underrated. My appreciation for him has grown over time. I probably have him too low as my #32. I don't think enough people appreciated what they had when he was here full-time. And even when he came back for part-time deals, people still didn't appreciate what they had. It's a shame his run was so short. He should've been the successor to Hogan with Austin being more of an elongated Goldberg-like bridge.

Hogan kicks off Rock 'N' Wrestling making pro wrestling cool in the mainstream in the 1980s. Parlays that into successful pop culture ventures outside the ring. Hangs around, overstaying his welcome, so the kids who grew up on him are now surly teens and rabidly turn on Hogan in favor of antihero Austin.

Austin takes the torch from Hogan and carries us through the late 90s. Then, here comes racially ambiguous Rock, young and health and as charismatic if not more so than Hogan and Austin combined.

Rock takes the torch from Austin so that Austin can ride off into the sunset with his broken neck a la John Wayne with a mortal bullet wound. Rock hangs around, even if it's only with a part-time schedule, as the second coming of Rock 'N' Wrestling... but Rock in this case has a totally different meaning. Rock parlays his popularity into pop culture ventures infinitely more relevant, successful, and cool than Hogan's. Rock comes back after Brock bails, and is the hero we all need (i.e., saving us from Super Cena). Rock reigns from at least 2004 through 2013. Then he drops to Brock again.

Since I did it for Shawn, let me see what a quick personal Top 10 Rock matches would look like for me... of course, in no particular order:
- vs. Brock @ SummerSlam 2002
- vs. Hogan @ WrestleMania X8
- vs. Taker vs. Kurt @ Vengeance 2002
- vs. Austin @ WrestleMania X-Seven
- vs. Shamrock vs. Mankind @ Breakdown 98
- vs. HHH on the SmackDown! pilot in 1999
- vs. Y2J on RAW or SmackDown! in late 2001 for the WCW title?

Shit, feel like I'm blanking on some favorites. Guess this is why he ranked beneath HBK after all!

The Rock (#12)
The Rock was my very first favourite wrestler. I think I talked a bit about this when I was rambling on about KENTA, but yeah, The Rock was my guy in the beginning. His promos and his silly impersonations of other wrestlers (Big Show and Undertaker being particularly memorable) tickled my juvenile self to end. I had a Rock mug. A Rock poster on my wall. A VHS compilation of Rock promos and matches. I always picked him in wrestling games.

Actually, I saw very few Rock matches back in the day, or at least I remember very few of them. I loved him pretty much on his personality alone. The few Rock matches I remember clearly are WMX7 against Austin. The Four way at Wrestlemania 2000. Armageddon HIAC. Maybe a couple of others. Years later I would watch his 60 minute Iron Man against Triple H and I loved it.

In the ring he's probably one of the worst of the top guys, but he's still an above average wrestler who mastered the art of working the crowd. Love the Rockbottom. It doesn't look like much through 2020 eyes, but in 1998 it was a pretty sick move, and had that surprise factor. The People's Elbow is really dumb, but also really over. How do you even invent a move like that? Is there an origin story?

Jun 23, 2020 16:04:47 GMT Emperor said:

The People's Elbow is really dumb, but also really over. How do you even invent a move like that? Is there an origin story?

Great timing. I just learned the origin story of the People's Elbow when a Triple H interview clip showed up in my Youtube feed a week or two ago. 

They were working a lot of 6 man tags at house shows. HHH, Austin, Foley, Rock, Taker & Kane were the names Triple H gave. The other 5 guys were goofing around in an attempt to make Taker break character. The original People's Elbow was one of those attempts at getting Taker to crack. He didn't. But the move did get a surprisingly good reaction from the crowd that first time. Rock started using it regularly. The rest is history. 
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My goal is to finish this up by the 4th of July. So expect names to drop a little more quickly as we near the end. There's a decent chance I post the next name tonight.

That's an awesome story :coolthumb:

Taker, absolute professional refusing to corpse oddly enough.

The Rock was my #2 and my future ex husband. He just doesn't know...yet.  I just have to wait until the restraining order lapses.

Is he the greatest in ring competitor? No, but he wasn't close to the worst either.  Oh sure the People's Elbow is right up there with the 619 in terms of lame signature moves but The Rock Bottom is on par with Taker's choke slam or Last Ride IMO.   I remember his IC title matches against HHH and often they were better than the ME and because he was the most electrifying personality in sports entertainment, the build ups were always great fun. He is arguably the most famous wrestler since his movie career rivals and may even exceed his wrestling career.  If it wasn't for The Rock & DX (mostly Chyna), I might not have stuck around during the Attitude Era.

Like Emperor Rock was my first favourite wrestler, and I had a poster of him on the back of my bedroom door for years (until the hormones really hit and he was replaced by Trish). His charisma and showmanship grabbed me instantly even if I started watching slightly after his absolute peak. An unknown fact is probably that my first ever PW username was the incredibly '01 n00b vibed "Rock Smells the WWF Title" which I'm surprised in hindsight didn't violate any character limits.

However, I thought it was interesting to read 🤯 say that his appreciation for Rock has grown over time - because I don't think there's a single wrestler in history whose work has aged worse than his. His return to work with Cena was a huge fail in my eyes (not just because it was stretched out to the second match which we definitely didn't need) and really shone a spotlight on how his material fit a time and place that had come and gone. The sexual innuendos and homophobic jokes should have stayed firmly back in the 90s.

With that said, he didn't need to come back at all by that stage and deserves the credit for putting back the way he did. For as big as he became, he's always presented himself as a really classy guy from the small stuff like giving shoutouts to lesser appreciated talents on Twitter, to the more overt, like losing to the Hurricane. That short Hollywood Rock period really was absolute gold from the killer entrance that he debuted at No Way Out to the Rock Concert in Sacramento. When he hit, he really hit.

33. The Rock (#8)- Made my list primarily for being my favorite wrestler in 1998.
Fun Fact: While I desperately wanted a Four Horsemen shirt in '96, and an Owen 3:16 shirt in '97, the Rock's "Brahma Bull" shirt was the first wrestling tee I ever actually owned. Well, if we're not counting the Hulk Hogan shirt my parents got for me as a child before I had ever watched wrestling. Anyway, pretty sure I got my Rock shirt at a May '98 Raw taping.

There's a strong possibility I was aware of Dwayne Johnson's wrestling heritage way back when he was still playing college football for Miami. I also distinctly remember reading about him several months before he even became a pro wrestler. The Apter Mags had a "Where Are They Now?" feature. Rocky Johnson was highlighted one month. The article mentioned he was training his son to become a wrestler. I didn't think much of it at the time since I barely knew who Rocky Johnson was. I could never have known Rocky's kid would go on to become one of the biggest stars of all time. I also recall reading about the USWA run of one Flex Kavana.

Rocky Maivia made his WWF debut a few months later. Couldn't stand him! For all my grumpy old man rants about "fans these days..." I was really no different when it came to vehemently rejecting anyone who I thought was being shoved down my throat. And Rocky was definitely being shoved down my throat. Plus he was the type of white meat babyface I was predisposed to disliking in the first place. His finisher was a stupid shoulder breaker. His big high spot a lame leapfrog. Boring! Rocky Sucks, indeed. He was Erik Watts with an even bigger push and without the one cool move. Yeah, Erik Watts > Rocky Maivia. I went there.

I recall being appalled when Rocky went over Sal Sincere w/ Jim Cornette on the IYH December '96 pre show. They were of similar size. But Sal had a better look, cooler moves, excellent execution, and a whole lot more experience. Yep. This guy thought Salvatore Sincere had more upside than The Rock  :$

Then Rocky won the IC Title from HHH. Gross! Welp, Marty Jannetty was off the hook. For he was no longer the WOAT IC Champ. Rocky wasn't catching on with the general public either. I popped when he lost the belt to Owen. Then I became annoyed all over again when I realized this lousy greenhorn won the IC Championship before the great Owen Hart.

Rocky slid down the card. And I think was out with injury for a little while? His push had clearly failed and I just assumed he was destined to become the next Holly/Aldo type before unceremoniously disappearing. I couldn't have cared less when he turned heel to join the Nation. 

Then something totally unexpected happened. Rock suddenly became entertaining. It was pretty much an overnight thing. One week he still had go away heat with me. The next week he won me over outta nowhere. I think it was the episode of Raw with Austin, the belt, and the bridge where I came around on Rocky.

He only got better from there. I can't pinpoint exactly when he became my new favorite wrestler (WM 14 is my best guess) but it was a meteoric rise that mirrored his own rise from one of the most boring wrestlers I ever had the misfortune to watch into The Most Electrifying Man In Sports Entertainment. I've said it before and I'll say it again. 1998 Rock was the best Rock.

I actually agree with jTjohncenaGOAT in that "he seemed like a broken record etc." in later years. So it's easy even for me at times to forget just how fresh Rock was in 1998. Dude was killing it every single week. He was like a Flair for the modern era while still being his own completely unique thing. He was also a great HTM style IC Champ. Best IC Champ in a few years and the last great one until Orton in 03-04. The Shamrock feud is particularly underrated. Rocky's weaselly ways of retaining the title were downright JBLesque. Truly the highest compliment.

Speaking in third person. Those epic sideburns. The expensive shirts. A cool new catchphrase practically every week. Ironically calling himself The People's Champ. The People's Eyebrow. All that stuff was right up my alley. Loved it. 

The cherry on top was that segment with the Nation where he gave them all expensive gifts. Then gave Faarooq a giant portrait of himself  :lol:  That's probably my single favorite thing Rock ever did.

The Rock was also a great leader. The Nation under Faarooq was a bunch of brooding bores who served as nothing more than 'rooq's lackeys. Under the stellar tutelage of The Rock all those guys were able to spread their wings and become the best possible versions of themselves. 1998 Rock is the coach I'd want to play for. Why he even gives gifts! Obviously rooted for The Nation over the hated DX, and Rock over stupid HHH. I was annoyed when HHH finally ended Rock's epic IC Title reign in a memorable Summerslam Ladder Match.... even if I did see it coming from a mile away. Both guys were obviously destined for bigger things.

The fans started cheering for Rock. I was actually a little annoyed by this for weird Baker reasons. Rock was "my guy." I wasn't keen to share him with the unwashed masses who not long ago had been chanting "Rocky Sucks." Plus I worried that turning good guy would water him down.

Swerve! He turned heel at Survivor Series to win the WWF Title. But my fickle self didn't really like this either! In fact, that's where Foley surpassed Rock as my #1 favorite. Rocky did Mick dirty. Boo! Plus, even though Rock had been my guy all year, I didn't think he was ready to be WWF Champ yet. Hmm.....Y'know I'm getting the impression I NEVER thought anybody was ready to be WWF Champ lol. Just read my last few writeups if you don't believe me! I did, however, pop huge when Foley finally won the big one by beating Rock on Raw. It's an extremely minor, nitpicky whine, but I couldn't stand Rock wearing a track suit after his boob job. Such a bush league look. Take that crap to ECW! 

Even though he was no longer my #1 guy, Rock would still be a solid Top 10 fave for about the next year and a half. He won the WWF Title a few times. Feuded with Austin. Turned good guy again. Was an insufferable jerk to Mick yet again in the Rock & Sock Connection, which is why I prefer BookDust to them when it comes to odd couple tag teams.

Remained firmly on Team Rocky when he feuded with that darn HHH in the first half of 2000. Was extremely invested in Rock (or Foley) taking the title from terrible Trips. Loved their Backlash & Judgment Day matches. But around mid 2000 I did a flip flop where I suddenly loved HHH and started growing a little tired of The Rock. He was beginning to get stale imo. Plus he was beefing with my new hero Kurt Angle.

Brief Storytime Interlude: It's also possible my Rock-hating friends Will & Boo had gotten to me. Will disliked The Rock because his girlfriend Lauren had the hots for him. They argued about this a lot. Come to think of it, an iron maiden vs. Lauren in a "Winner Marries Rock Match" would draw those sweet, sweet Baker dimes.  Boo's anti-Rock reasoning was a little more serious....and a lot weirder. He STILL held the Rocky Maivia overpush against the poor guy. Weirdo Boo even loathed Brian Christopher just because the rumor mill claimed he was Rock's closest friend in WWF. Now that's just pathological.

Anyway, I went off Rock for good when he beat Angle to regain the WWF Championship at No Way Out 2001. His shtick had officially grown tiresome. I didn't turn on him completely. We're not talking a Michaels/Hogan/Warrior thing here. It was more 'meh.' He was just another guy now. Same played out catchphrases every week. The People's Elbow started out as an intentionally ridiculous heel spot. Then it became an occasional douchebag heel finisher. Like Rock beat the guy so thoroughly with the Rock Bottom that he could pin them with this absurd move just to be a dick. But by this point it had jumped the shark and we were expected to buy it as a 'real' finisher. Not happening!

Rock is either the best bad wrestler or the worst good wrestler. I've never been able to decide which. He did a ton of things that annoyed me. Yet I almost always enjoyed his big matches. Face it. Rock had terrible execution on many of his big moves. His 'flop around like a fish on land' sell of the Stunner was hilarious the first time you saw it, but suffered from the Law of Diminishing Returns, and soon became just as bad as the stupid People's Elbow. Also hated how he would hold the back of his head on back suplexes like a wimp. BUT I'd take The Rock's Top 10-15 matches over a whole lot of other guys Top 10-15 matches.

Anyway, I'm apparently the only wrestling fan on the planet who didn't give a hoot about Austin/Rock @ WM 17. You know that hype video everybody is always gushing about? I didn't even remember it until I came to PW! That's how little I cared about this match. What makes it doubly weird is I was an actual fan of Limp Bizkit's My Way in 2001. No regrets!

Following that admitted classic confrontation with Austin, Rock finally landed back on my shitlist for real by "selling out" to Hollywood. I was 100% Team Booker when Rock returned for their feud, though I did root for Rock over stupid Chris Jericho. Rocky came and went a few times during the next year or so, mostly to indifference from yours truly, though I did root for him over dumb Hogan and dumber Brock.

Then came Hollywood Rock. Rock did win me back during this stretch.....as a 3rd tier fave. To be honest, I barely remember the "legendary" Hollywood Rock run beyond getting a kick out of his over the top entrance/Titantron. Hated Austin/Rock @ WM 19, though I did enjoy his first low key retirement match at WM 20 teaming with Foley against Evolution. Perhaps the ultimate popcorn match right there.

I saw Rock's promos after....the Wrestlemania he hosted in 2011. It had been ages since I'd watched even a single Rock promo and I instantly remembered why I had once been so enamored with the guy. To paraphrase the immortal Neil Diamond, it wasn't his words so much as the way they were said. Rock really did ramble on about nothing but his delivery was so good! He had that crowd in the palm of his hand. They were hanging on every (silly) word. And he really is the most charismatic guy to ever do it. Nobody argues that, right?

I actually enjoyed the first Cena match. Never saw the 2nd. Never saw the Punk match either. But I'm glad Rocky won. Cry, cry again, Phil. And good for Rock on becoming the all time most successful wrestler outside of the wrestling business. 

I feel like a riot is going to break out when CM Punks bitch ass appears on this list ahead of these actual legends.

#7 Mick Foley
15 Votes-488 Points
High Vote: #3
Last Time: #5

Jun 24, 2020 3:10:39 GMT Baker said:

Will disliked The Rock because his girlfriend Lauren had the hots for him. They argued about this a lot. Come to think of it, an iron maiden vs. Lauren in a "Winner Marries Rock Match" would draw those sweet, sweet Baker dimes. 

Bring it! Lauren ain’t shit! Dwayne Johnson on a pole match! (There’s a dirty joke in there somewhere)

I almost took the day off to go to Canmore the day I found out they were filming Jumanji there, but I’m actually a little afraid of what I would do if I ever met him. Sadly, I’d probably sob like a 50’s teen at a Beatles concert and that would be that.

If I had a list, Rock would have definitely been my number 1. Only 8th on this list? The GOAT is only 8?! What a bunch of jabronis!