Jun 20, 2020 8:12:54 GMT cig said:

Jun 19, 2020 11:14:29 GMT System said:

SPOILER: Click to show

This is going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history.
Sandra is hating it so far and she loved the original and has no idea about the further spoilers to come. She’s already lost a lot of interest because Joel has died so early in the game.


Absolutely baffling creative choices.

Nope. It's just a bunch of neck beards review bombing it because of the strong LGBT themes. There have been several threads on 4Chan and similar sites with that prevailing sentiment. 

Kill the main character, change who you play as and change the overall theme of the game.
Then blame the backlash on the people upset with the LGBT themes to detract from legitimate story criticisms. Winning formula.

Jun 20, 2020 14:29:11 GMT System said:

Jun 20, 2020 8:12:54 GMT cig said:

Nope. It's just a bunch of neck beards review bombing it because of the strong LGBT themes. There have been several threads on 4Chan and similar sites with that prevailing sentiment. 

Kill the main character, change who you play as and change the overall theme of the game.
Then blame the backlash on the people upset with the LGBT themes to detract from legitimate story criticisms. Winning formula.

It is cool to have diversity and have less represented characters in a game, just not for a well hyped sequel to push that narrative. If they kept Ellie and hell bring back Bill as the LGBT rep and have Deena, that's fine. It is cool to see alot of POC in the game too. All for it. I think Abby is overkill but I get it, Druckmann wants a Transgender rep to sort of pave the way. Thus far, it has not been addressed or even brought up which is great but I seriously hope there isn't some breakdown, I would prefer her sexuality not get addressed at all in the game. 

I just feel like the non combat scenes is like Life is Strange, it's something I have played and done before. Both with LiS and Lis: Before the Storm. I want to fight new infected, not have to deal with the late teen soap opera stuff. I can play Life is Strange if I want that. Give me new infected. Thus far it's runners and clickers. It's been now 5 years since the outbreak, something has had to have mutated. Maybe mutated Dogs or something. Go Resident Evil. TLoU I can get away with this since it was so new timeline wise but now? Nah. 

Jun 20, 2020 15:32:41 GMT Blindy said:

Jun 20, 2020 14:29:11 GMT System said:

Kill the main character, change who you play as and change the overall theme of the game.
Then blame the backlash on the people upset with the LGBT themes to detract from legitimate story criticisms. Winning formula.

It is cool to have diversity and have less represented characters in a game, just not for a well hyped sequel to push that narrative. If they kept Ellie and hell bring back Bill as the LGBT rep and have Deena, that's fine. It is cool to see alot of POC in the game too. All for it. I think Abby is overkill but I get it, Druckmann wants a Transgender rep to sort of pave the way. Thus far, it has not been addressed or even brought up which is great but I seriously hope there isn't some breakdown, I would prefer her sexuality not get addressed at all in the game. 

I just feel like the non combat scenes is like Life is Strange, it's something I have played and done before. Both with LiS and Lis: Before the Storm. I want to fight new infected, not have to deal with the late teen soap opera stuff. I can play Life is Strange if I want that. Give me new infected. Thus far it's runners and clickers. It's been now 5 years since the outbreak, something has had to have mutated. Maybe mutated Dogs or something. Go Resident Evil. TLoU I can get away with this since it was so new timeline wise but now? Nah. 

Also JUST before playing this. I played and finished Life is Strange 2 so I feel like I am just replaying that all over again tbh.
I am stoked there is more Representation happening, I just don’t understand why it has become her personality so far. Like what else have you been up to. I know we get some flashbacks but they don’t seem that central to her personality now.

Jun 20, 2020 14:29:11 GMT System said:

Jun 20, 2020 8:12:54 GMT cig said:

Nope. It's just a bunch of neck beards review bombing it because of the strong LGBT themes. There have been several threads on 4Chan and similar sites with that prevailing sentiment. 

Kill the main character, change who you play as and change the overall theme of the game.
Then blame the backlash on the people upset with the LGBT themes to detract from legitimate story criticisms. Winning formula.

What are you even talking about? This game was review bombed as soon as reviews opened on Meta before many even got to play it. Are you seriously trying to act like the alt right doesn't have an agenda against this game motivated by it's diverse themes? Live in reality man.

If people don't like the game, cool. But you incorrectly acted like the Meta review score wasn't a result of review bombing, how can't you see that? 

I said my gripes thus far of the game but I don't think it deserves 2-3 scores either. Like the game is playable and I have not experienced any glitches thus far(Checkpoint system sucked 1-2 times but that's it) and the voice acting has been great. The story decisions I disagree with how they did it but the game is playable and is far from awful.

Jun 20, 2020 19:52:57 GMT Blindy said:

I said my gripes thus far of the game but I don't think it deserves 2-3 scores either. Like the game is playable and I have not experienced any glitches thus far(Checkpoint system sucked 1-2 times but that's it) and the voice acting has been great. The story decisions I disagree with how they did it but the game is playable and is far from awful.

It might well deserve 2-3s.

The only point I'm making here is it'a being review bombed on Meta for political reasons.

Jun 20, 2020 19:55:52 GMT cig said:

Jun 20, 2020 19:52:57 GMT Blindy said:

I said my gripes thus far of the game but I don't think it deserves 2-3 scores either. Like the game is playable and I have not experienced any glitches thus far(Checkpoint system sucked 1-2 times but that's it) and the voice acting has been great. The story decisions I disagree with how they did it but the game is playable and is far from awful.

It might well deserve 2-3s.

The only point I'm making here is it'a being review bombed on Meta for political reasons.

It's alot of Microsoft fanboys who hate anything Sony does or any of it's first party stuff. I think Horizon Zero Dawn got the same treatment and that blows out anything first party done by Microsoft this entire gen. The fanboys blast any thing exclusive to Sony, have been doing this for well over a decade.

I do think the Joel death probably angered a lot of people who avoided spoilers OR who got spoiled but had to see the way it was treated(Which I didn't care much for) but yeah there are some who probably hate the transsexual character, Abby.

Jun 20, 2020 20:01:12 GMT Blindy said:

Jun 20, 2020 19:55:52 GMT cig said:

It might well deserve 2-3s.

The only point I'm making here is it'a being review bombed on Meta for political reasons.

It's alot of Microsoft fanboys who hate anything Sony does or any of it's first party stuff. I think Horizon Zero Dawn got the same treatment and that blows out anything first party done by Microsoft this entire gen. The fanboys blast any thing exclusive to Sony, have been doing this for well over a decade.

I do think the Joel death probably angered a lot of people who avoided spoilers OR who got spoiled but had to see the way it was treated(Which I didn't care much for) but yeah there are some who probably hate the transsexual character, Abby.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2020/06/20/two-warnings-about-the-last-of-us-2-user-review-scores/amp/



Not a fanboy thing.

Okay, so I just got to the part where Abby meets Joel and Tommy, and suggests that they go back to her place. As of now, I'm not seeing what's out of character for Joel. For these reasons.

1. He and Tommy just saved her. Naturally he assumes she is grateful and are now working to survive.

2. There is a massive horde surrounding them. There's little choice, he even comments they can't get back right now the usual way.

3. He's frustrated with Tommy's plan and wanted another. That plays into their established relationship.

Now that may change as they proceed to the mansion, but as of now, I have to respectively disagree it's out of character.

And I have to say, that entire chase sequence was outstanding and exhilarating.

Jun 20, 2020 22:53:43 GMT cig said:

Okay, so I just got to the part where Abby meets Joel and Tommy, and suggests that they go back to her place. As of now, I'm not seeing what's out of character for Joel. For these reasons.

1. He and Tommy just saved her. Naturally he assumes she is grateful and are now working to survive.

2. There is a massive horde surrounding them. There's little choice, he even comments they can't get back right now the usual way.

3. He's frustrated with Tommy's plan and wanted another. That plays into their established relationship.

Now that may change as they proceed to the mansion, but as of now, I have to respectively disagree it's out of character.

And I have to say, that entire chase sequence was outstanding and exhilarating.

Except Joel had shown in TLOU1...

1) Would run over a civilian because he knew they were up to no good or were full of shit. 
2) Worked with Marlene in the beginning of the game, was given the chance to leave but decided to murder countless fireflies before shooting and killing Marlene who pleaded to let her live. 


I get it, he had a Rick Grimes moment of peace and felt life may have gotten better but there is no reason to trust them. I would have asked her who she is with and kept it business related if your 5+ years in this outbreak. 

And the chase scene was great. Another thing I really like in my 2nd day playthrough is how a lot of the humans look different thus far and all are identified by names when one is calling out. So many of these games use the same 3-4 models and are completely nameless and thus have no real meaning but it isn't common to see generic enemies actually have a name and don't look the exact same from one another.

Jun 20, 2020 19:42:41 GMT cig said:

Jun 20, 2020 14:29:11 GMT System said:

Kill the main character, change who you play as and change the overall theme of the game.
Then blame the backlash on the people upset with the LGBT themes to detract from legitimate story criticisms. Winning formula.

What are you even talking about? This game was review bombed as soon as reviews opened on Meta before many even got to play it. Are you seriously trying to act like the alt right doesn't have an agenda against this game motivated by it's diverse themes? Live in reality man.

If people don't like the game, cool. But you incorrectly acted like the Meta review score wasn't a result of review bombing, how can't you see that? 

This thread is mostly people expressing their disappointment with the game for story reasons, people elsewhere online complaining that the story choices don’t match the characters arcs that this isn’t the game they wanted all with valid criticisms.

But no, all criticisms including on Metacritic is the “alt-right” is just a cop out for a
story no one asked for.

Yeah I wouldn't read too much into the user-score either. I've been following the threads in 4Chan and KiwiFarms who have been campaigning for this for months. Those communities have form for review bombing.

With that said, I still think it's a very divisive game so I don't expect it to be anywhere near as beloved as the original.

Again, the timing could not be worse.

Jun 21, 2020 4:14:17 GMT System said:

Jun 20, 2020 19:42:41 GMT cig said:

What are you even talking about? This game was review bombed as soon as reviews opened on Meta before many even got to play it. Are you seriously trying to act like the alt right doesn't have an agenda against this game motivated by it's diverse themes? Live in reality man.

If people don't like the game, cool. But you incorrectly acted like the Meta review score wasn't a result of review bombing, how can't you see that? 

This thread is mostly people expressing their disappointment with the game for story reasons, people elsewhere online complaining that the story choices don’t match the characters arcs that this isn’t the game they wanted all with valid criticisms.

But no, all criticisms including on Metacritic is the “alt-right” is just a cop out for a
story no one asked for.

Once again, I have never once said that people's personal criticisms are invalid, just that the metacritic user score is a result out of an orchestrated review bombing. Which there is plenty of articles from mainstream media outlets, threads on sites such as 4Chan and Kiwifarms, etc, backing up.

So if you and others don't like the game, cool, you have every right not to. But when you make an outlandish comment such as "This is going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history." because of the user score score on Meta, you should be aware of the actual reason that is.

Jun 21, 2020 5:34:44 GMT cig said:

Jun 21, 2020 4:14:17 GMT System said:

This thread is mostly people expressing their disappointment with the game for story reasons, people elsewhere online complaining that the story choices don’t match the characters arcs that this isn’t the game they wanted all with valid criticisms.

But no, all criticisms including on Metacritic is the “alt-right” is just a cop out for a
story no one asked for.

Once again, I have never once said that people's personal criticisms are invalid, just that the metacritic user score is a result out of an orchestrated review bombing. Which there is plenty of articles from mainstream media outlets, threads on sites such as 4Chan and Kiwifarms, etc, backing up.

So if you and others don't like the game, cool, you have every right not to. But when you make an outlandish comment such as "This is going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history." because of the user score score on Meta, you should be aware of the actual reason that is.

It’s going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in history because it was one of the most hyped games and now the majority of people are disappointed.

Hardly outlandish.

Jun 20, 2020 23:57:16 GMT Blindy said:

Jun 20, 2020 22:53:43 GMT cig said:

Okay, so I just got to the part where Abby meets Joel and Tommy, and suggests that they go back to her place. As of now, I'm not seeing what's out of character for Joel. For these reasons.

1. He and Tommy just saved her. Naturally he assumes she is grateful and are now working to survive.

2. There is a massive horde surrounding them. There's little choice, he even comments they can't get back right now the usual way.

3. He's frustrated with Tommy's plan and wanted another. That plays into their established relationship.

Now that may change as they proceed to the mansion, but as of now, I have to respectively disagree it's out of character.

And I have to say, that entire chase sequence was outstanding and exhilarating.

Except Joel had shown in TLOU1...

1) Would run over a civilian because he knew they were up to no good or were full of shit. 
2) Worked with Marlene in the beginning of the game, was given the chance to leave but decided to murder countless fireflies before shooting and killing Marlene who pleaded to let her live. 


I get it, he had a Rick Grimes moment of peace and felt life may have gotten better but there is no reason to trust them. I would have asked her who she is with and kept it business related if your 5+ years in this outbreak. 

And the chase scene was great. Another thing I really like in my 2nd day playthrough is how a lot of the humans look different thus far and all are identified by names when one is calling out. So many of these games use the same 3-4 models and are completely nameless and thus have no real meaning but it isn't common to see generic enemies actually have a name and don't look the exact same from one another.

Again, what other choice did he have in the situation? What reason did he have to assume she was against him when they just saved her and worked side by side? And fuck, i'll say it, why wouldn't he be a little less guarded and less on edge if he's been living in a stable city for 3 years with his loved ones as opposed to his crappy ass situation in the 1st? That sounds like a typical human to me.

Jun 21, 2020 5:37:24 GMT System said:

Jun 21, 2020 5:34:44 GMT cig said:

Once again, I have never once said that people's personal criticisms are invalid, just that the metacritic user score is a result out of an orchestrated review bombing. Which there is plenty of articles from mainstream media outlets, threads on sites such as 4Chan and Kiwifarms, etc, backing up.

So if you and others don't like the game, cool, you have every right not to. But when you make an outlandish comment such as "This is going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history." because of the user score score on Meta, you should be aware of the actual reason that is.

It’s going to go down as one of the biggest disappointments in history because it was one of the most hyped games and now the majority of people are disappointed.

Hardly outlandish.

I don't think a majority are. Certainly not on Resetera, Reddit, Twitch, etc.

I've been following along with this thread while I'm playing through and I have to say that I agree with cig. I don't think saving Abby is out of character for Joel, you aren't allowing for the fact that people can change, hell Joel changed during his journey in the first game and I think this is just an evolution of his character. As cig also said, Joel has been living in a stable community for 5 years, he's found a measure of peace and he no longer has to immediately distrust people on sight, that's not his life any more.

Can I also say that until reading this thread, I had no idea Abby was trans - as I said I have stayed away from anything to do with the game so I could go in and form my own opinion of the game fresh. Can I just also say that I fucking hate Abby and I really hope we get to make the bitch suffer before she dies painfully, like she did to Joel.

Jun 21, 2020 5:40:56 GMT cig said:

Jun 20, 2020 23:57:16 GMT Blindy said:

Except Joel had shown in TLOU1...

1) Would run over a civilian because he knew they were up to no good or were full of shit. 
2) Worked with Marlene in the beginning of the game, was given the chance to leave but decided to murder countless fireflies before shooting and killing Marlene who pleaded to let her live. 


I get it, he had a Rick Grimes moment of peace and felt life may have gotten better but there is no reason to trust them. I would have asked her who she is with and kept it business related if your 5+ years in this outbreak. 

And the chase scene was great. Another thing I really like in my 2nd day playthrough is how a lot of the humans look different thus far and all are identified by names when one is calling out. So many of these games use the same 3-4 models and are completely nameless and thus have no real meaning but it isn't common to see generic enemies actually have a name and don't look the exact same from one another.

Again, what other choice did he have in the situation? What reason did he have to assume she was against him when they just saved her and worked side by side? And fuck, i'll say it, why wouldn't he be a little less guarded and less on edge if he's been living in a stable city for 3 years with his loved ones as opposed to his crappy ass situation in the 1st? That sounds like a typical human to me.

Make up their names and lie? Like how they told Ellie to not bring up the immune thing to everybody? If he felt so safe, he would not have Ellie conceal and say it's a chemical burn or get a tattoo over it. They don't owe a random stranger to know their town, or names. The town was in good shape and was doing good by all accounts from a numbers standpoint. They worked side by side for like 5 whole minutes. Tess would be looking down shaking her damn head seeing Joel just give out his full info and probably knock him out in whatever afterlife they're both in the minute she sees him.

Joel also made Tommy swear to not bring up to anybody what went down in Utah at Firefly HQ. Said to take it to the grave. That isn't someone fully at ease with everybody in the town, much less with a random stranger they meet on the fly.

He's seen the worst of humanity in the cross country traveling, and by providing personal info. he would be putting Ellie, his sister in law etc. everybody in danger. It was a massive oversight and made Joel look absolutely dumb. 


Am about 9 hours in, I have to take back my statement about needing a new infected type in the game. Won't say anything further in fairness to everybody in here even if this is a spoilers thread. Just had to clear that up, hoping for more of this! Game has gotten better in all due fairness after the first couple of hours, when the gameplay and survival horror aspect kick in, this is what I paid the 60 bucks for! Then they do another swerve that is ridiculous IMO. but I get why they did it: To make you feel alone. Won't go too further into that.

Jun 21, 2020 8:41:06 GMT Rogue said:

I've been following along with this thread while I'm playing through and I have to say that I agree with cig . I don't think saving Abby is out of character for Joel, you aren't allowing for the fact that people can change, hell Joel changed during his journey in the first game and I think this is just an evolution of his character. As cig also said, Joel has been living in a stable community for 5 years, he's found a measure of peace and he no longer has to immediately distrust people on sight, that's not his life any more.

Can I also say that until reading this thread, I had no idea Abby was trans - as I said I have stayed away from anything to do with the game so I could go in and form my own opinion of the game fresh. Can I just also say that I fucking hate Abby and I really hope we get to make the bitch suffer before she dies painfully, like she did to Joel.

I would have known by muscular proportions, not even bodybuilder women can build up guns like what Abby has But you are not alone on that! 

I like the whole "Kill Bill" thing going on that Ellie was left to die, had everything taken away from her in front of her eyes and now she's purely bloodlusted and will target everysingle person who fucked with her. "They should have killed me because now they fucked up". They are all dying in some way, shape or form. I just wish like with Kill Bill, there is epic boss fights and encounters to make the struggle mean so much more.

They're going for a Kill Bill/Punisher/The Crow sort of there here. Just people are tagging along with Ellie and I wonder if her bloodlust ends up costing more people their lives. No idea.

Abby is not trans.

She's built as fuck and doesn't have a typical body type for a woman. However, some cis women absolutely have that body type.

Jun 21, 2020 19:00:31 GMT cig said:

Abby is not trans.

She's built as fuck and doesn't have a typical body type for a woman. However, some cis women absolutely have that body type.

I'll apologise then for believing what I've read in here, it hasn't been confirmed in game and I'm pretty far in.  I did just think she was pretty built, as you say some cis women absolutely have that body type - I'm thinking of Chyna.  I will also say it's good to see a female character that's different from the normal female stereotype you see in games.

I keep thinking I'm at the end but then I turn another figurative corner and I'm not nearly done yet.  This game is huge, way bigger than I remember the first one being. 

If she wants to be referred to as a she, than so be it. I think calling her "it" or something would be offensive but if she identifies as a girl, than cool. I didn't mean it offensive in any way calling her transsexual, thought they were going for a representation in the game.

By all accounts she is meant as a rep in a very very baron representation of trans characters in gaming. I could care less what she is, just thus far into the game, she's the enemy to me. As they all are.

Don't care what religion they believe in if at all, or what nationality they are or what their sexuality is. I judge characters for how they're written and portrayed and their actions in a game. I see Abby the way Rogue does.

“The characters in The Last of Us Part II are designed in such a way to not make trans people feel uncomfortable. Every single new character introduced in the sequel does not have definitive feminine or masculine qualities.“

- alleged naughty dog source during the leaks.

Jun 21, 2020 19:13:03 GMT System said:

“The characters in The Last of Us Part II are designed in such a way to not make trans people feel uncomfortable. Every single new character introduced in the sequel does not have definitive feminine or masculine qualities.“

- alleged naughty dog source during the leaks.

Sausage Roll said that without any evidence and is not a valid source. Sausage Roll also is very right wing. They also have posted several anti trans articles. Do you see a pattern?

And Dina seems pretty feminine to me.

What is the verdict on this? Should I plan on getting it or is this a pass? Seeing a lot of people disappointed in it.

Jun 21, 2020 22:17:32 GMT c said:

What is the verdict on this? Should I plan on getting it or is this a pass? Seeing a lot of people disappointed in it.

I like it, Rogue likes it, Blindy seems mixed on it, Sandylea seems to not like it, System seems to not like it.

Critical acclaim is overflowing, it's getting a ton of love on Resetera and lots of hate on NeoGAF, and a majority of praise on Reddit, but it does have a entire subreddit seemingly devoted against it. The more casual audience, judging from the reviews on the PS store and Twitter, seem to overwhelmingly love it.

4Chan and it's connected communities despise it, so that sounds like a plus.

Jun 21, 2020 19:32:57 GMT cig said:

Jun 21, 2020 19:13:03 GMT System said:

“The characters in The Last of Us Part II are designed in such a way to not make trans people feel uncomfortable. Every single new character introduced in the sequel does not have definitive feminine or masculine qualities.“

- alleged naughty dog source during the leaks.

Sausage Roll said that without any evidence and is not a valid source. Sausage Roll also is very right wing. They also have posted several anti trans articles. Do you see a pattern?

And Dina seems pretty feminine to me.

alleged
/əˈlɛdʒd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.

Jun 21, 2020 23:26:55 GMT System said:

Jun 21, 2020 19:32:57 GMT cig said:

Sausage Roll said that without any evidence and is not a valid source. Sausage Roll also is very right wing. They also have posted several anti trans articles. Do you see a pattern?

And Dina seems pretty feminine to me.

alleged
/əˈlɛdʒd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.

con·text
/ˈkäntekst/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
"the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending"