Dec 5, 2022 3:33:17 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 5, 2022 3:15:10 GMT @admin said:

Yeah was it you? Typed like that it made me think of this :lol:

Can't not love a Sid tie-in to politics.

Feel like Australia could be an inspiration for America to aspire to?

How come your colony sorted shit out so much better than ours?

Despite being a island of criminals.

Dec 5, 2022 3:33:17 GMT 🤯 said:

Feel like Australia could be an inspiration for America to aspire to?

How come your colony sorted shit out so much better than ours?

This is just me speculating, but I would imagine that compulsory voting has something to do with it. Young people have the option to just disengage in the US. Your voting system also means that minor parties are more irrelevant than they are here.

Dec 5, 2022 3:33:17 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 5, 2022 3:15:10 GMT @admin said:

Can't not love a Sid tie-in to politics.

Feel like Australia could be an inspiration for America to aspire to?

How come your colony sorted shit out so much better than ours?

They do not suppress votes, use proportional representation and single transferable vote, and having more than two parties, no one party is able to rig the system for a minority advantage, like the GOP currently has.  No filibuster system means they actually vote as well.

We don't have the extremes in politics that the United States does.

Ok, we do. But they're likely from Queensland (our deep south) and they're complete wackjobs. Or have a panel show on Sky News.

Most politicians are bland, boring political-lifers who are void of any personality outside of their particular slight left/right of centre agenda.

That was how the US was until money started to ramp up and Newt Gingrich realized if he moved conservatives to embrace hate it would pay off far better at the polls than supporting family values.

Would not be shocked if Sky and other American imported media desperately wants to create American style politics there.

Nov 29, 2022 21:32:36 GMT @admin said:

They could stand to be more progressive on issues like duck shooting, logging and renters rights, but generally speaking doing a good job.

Further to this point it's a real shame to see that Fiona Patten wasn't able to retain her seat as she was a key figure in a lot of the Andrews government's more progressive policies. And to lose out to one of those corrupt stand for nothing except themselves politicians NATH45 likes to talk about, Adam Somyurek, is a double yuck.

Dec 12, 2022 1:23:10 GMT @admin said:

Nov 29, 2022 21:32:36 GMT @admin said:

They could stand to be more progressive on issues like duck shooting, logging and renters rights, but generally speaking doing a good job.

Further to this point it's a real shame to see that Fiona Patten wasn't able to retain her seat as she was a key figure in a lot of the Andrews government's more progressive policies. And to lose out to one of those corrupt stand for nothing except themselves politicians NATH45 likes to talk about, Adam Somyurek, is a double yuck.

Is there any other type of politician?

Our local rep bought her personal photographer to the local Christmas Carols on Saturday night. Shit, her LinkedIn must be lighting up this week.

I love my state. One major was investigated, found guilty of corruption charges, sent to jail, then when he got out, he was voted back into office, and now is being invested for corruption again, for essentially doing the same shit that got him arrested the first time. Then again those voters got what they deserved at that point.

There is a reason Family Guy made a Bridgeport is a dark hellscape joke, and this is it.

Mayor of another city got arrested for paying a prostitute to fuck her 10 year old niece and 8 year old daughter.   

Should not shock anyone our police used to run the drug trade themselves.  Got so bad the FBI would send in teams without contacting CT law enforcement at all.  So many police arrested by selling to undercover feds. 

Dec 12, 2022 1:55:38 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 12, 2022 1:23:10 GMT @admin said:

Further to this point it's a real shame to see that Fiona Patten wasn't able to retain her seat as she was a key figure in a lot of the Andrews government's more progressive policies. And to lose out to one of those corrupt stand for nothing except themselves politicians NATH45 likes to talk about, Adam Somyurek, is a double yuck.

Is there any other type of politician?

Our local rep bought her personal photographer to the local Christmas Carols on Saturday night. Shit, her LinkedIn must be lighting up this week.

It's easy to be sceptical but I believe there are politicians who get in the game because they are committed to making things better for people. Obviously you have to have a predisposition for fame/notoriety/attention but that is inevitable seeing as to do the job you have to be popular. 

Patten was influential in Victoria legalising voluntary assisted dying, introducing safe access zones at abortion clinics, and decriminalising sex work. That's a pretty fantastic legacy.

So my fellow Australians, did you see this on the news this morning?

Channel 10 refuses to celebrate Australia day.
I despise this with every fiber of my being corporations making decisions on the behalf of all people.

Where I may differ is that I am completely open for the day we celebrate Australia day to be changed.
I am exactly the same with the flag, I am happy to change the flag

But only if we as a country can unite behind one flag and one day of National Celebration.
We cannot have all these different flags and different agendas and claim to be a nation.

We really should just get on with it, leave the commonwealth, get a new flag, and change the date all at the same time. Stop fucking around.

Dec 19, 2022 4:06:18 GMT @admin said:

We really should just get on with it, leave the commonwealth, get a new flag, and change the date all at the same time. Stop fucking around.

I completely agree, but do you think corporations and local councils trying to determine public policy is the way to do it?

I wish our councils would get on with what they are meant to do, like picking up the rubbish and cutting the grass at the local oval rather than passing motions on Australia day, or the indigenous voice to parliament or declaring a climate emergency or whatever.

To play Devil's advocate - where does it end? 

I agree, times have changed. The conversation is broader, and potentially we need to change the day to reflect all peoples.

So if 26 January is out because it represents the day Australia was 'invaded' by the British, it is possible to nominate alternatives without some degree of backlash also? 

Say, 

a) A day to celebrate the Federation of Australia ( 1 January 1901.. well, that's New Year's Day ) or... 

b) A day to celebrate the Constitution of Australia ( 17 September 1900 ) the day in which it was  "proclaimed" and then entered into force on 1 January 1901.

I think to a degree both options offend First Nations people, because it represents the days in which their land was handed from one white man to the other. 

So let me present a few more ideas... 

Firstly a contender.. upgrading the significance of ANZAC day, as the Gallipoli campaign is seen as the birth of Australia's national identity. But potentially, that option dilutes the importance of ANZAC day. Again, does it represent all peoples? Maybe not. And the left hate 'war' and believe anyone who served is a war-criminal anyway. 

c) So, in a bid to represent a contemporary, inclusive, diverse Australia I present to you : 15 September. 

The opening of the 2000 Sydney Summer Olympics. 

"The 2000 Games received universal acclaim, with the organisation, volunteers, sportsmanship, and Australian public being lauded in the international media. Bill Bryson of The Times called the Sydney Games "one of the most successful events on the world stage", saying that they "couldn't be better". James Mossop of the Electronic Telegraph called the Games "such a success that any city considering bidding for future Olympics must be wondering how it can reach the standards set by Sydney", while Jack Todd of the Montreal Gazette suggested that the "IOC should quit while it's ahead. Admit there can never be a better Olympic Games, and be done with it," as "Sydney was both exceptional and the best" - Wikipedia. 

"A global Australia. Sydney 2000 provided a striking opportunity for Australia to project a global image as a sophisticated, multicultural nation. A considerable effort was made by the Sydney Olympic organising committee to involve First Australians. As a result, one of the most powerful and enduring themes of the games was Indigenous Australia. It ran through the Cultural Olympiad’s, Festival of the Dreaming, the Olympic Park’s Aboriginal cultural pavilion and the arrival of the Olympic torch at Uluru. The opening ceremony featured multiple Indigenous-themed segments, while the closing ceremony showcased Christine Anu’s performance “My Island Home”. In their performances, Midnight Oil and Savage Garden also wore “Sorry” and Indigenous flag clothing. And most memorably, Cathy Freeman lit the Olympic cauldron and won the women’s 400 metres, bearing the sky high expectations of the nation as she ran." - westernsydney.edu.au

Dec 19, 2022 10:34:48 GMT NATH45 said:

To play Devil's advocate - where does it end? 

I agree, times have changed. The conversation is broader, and potentially we need to change the day to reflect all peoples.

So if 26 January is out because it represents the day Australia was 'invaded' by the British, it is possible to nominate alternatives without some degree of backlash also? 

Say, 

a) A day to celebrate the Federation of Australia ( 1 January 1901.. well, that's New Year's Day ) or... 

b) A day to celebrate the Constitution of Australia ( 17 September 1900 ) the day in which it was  "proclaimed" and then entered into force on 1 January 1901.

I think to a degree both options offend First Nations people, because it represents the days in which their land was handed from one white man to the other. 

So let me present a few more ideas... 

Firstly a contender.. upgrading the significance of ANZAC day, as the Gallipoli campaign is seen as the birth of Australia's national identity. But potentially, that option dilutes the importance of ANZAC day. Again, does it represent all peoples? Maybe not. And the left hate 'war' and believe anyone who served is a war-criminal anyway. 

c) So, in a bid to represent a contemporary, inclusive, diverse Australia I present to you : 15 September. 

The opening of the 2000 Sydney Summer Olympics. 

"The 2000 Games received universal acclaim, with the organisation, volunteers, sportsmanship, and Australian public being lauded in the international media. Bill Bryson of The Times called the Sydney Games "one of the most successful events on the world stage", saying that they "couldn't be better". James Mossop of the Electronic Telegraph called the Games "such a success that any city considering bidding for future Olympics must be wondering how it can reach the standards set by Sydney", while Jack Todd of the Montreal Gazette suggested that the "IOC should quit while it's ahead. Admit there can never be a better Olympic Games, and be done with it," as "Sydney was both exceptional and the best" - Wikipedia. 

"A global Australia. Sydney 2000 provided a striking opportunity for Australia to project a global image as a sophisticated, multicultural nation. A considerable effort was made by the Sydney Olympic organising committee to involve First Australians. As a result, one of the most powerful and enduring themes of the games was Indigenous Australia. It ran through the Cultural Olympiad’s, Festival of the Dreaming, the Olympic Park’s Aboriginal cultural pavilion and the arrival of the Olympic torch at Uluru. The opening ceremony featured multiple Indigenous-themed segments, while the closing ceremony showcased Christine Anu’s performance “My Island Home”. In their performances, Midnight Oil and Savage Garden also wore “Sorry” and Indigenous flag clothing. And most memorably, Cathy Freeman lit the Olympic cauldron and won the women’s 400 metres, bearing the sky high expectations of the nation as she ran." - westernsydney.edu.au

I'm actually a bit tired of us trying to build a national identity around the ANZACS they were a bunch of kids that were lied to and sent off to be slaughtered through the sheer incompetence of the British, mostly at the direction of Winston Churchill.

Let's just pick a day with typically good weather and make it then... Doesn't need to be significant and it's better if it isn't.

The day itself needs to hold some significance, as simply moving the date doesn't solve the issue. Regardless of the date, there will always be some form of backlash. Australia Day irregardless of the date will always seen as a celebration of our Colonial past - and for 95% of people there's nothing wrong with that. The entire conversation is pandering to that 5%, maybe 2% of which are indigenous, and the other 3% being instigators and disruptors.

So, you control the narrative and set a new date and explain the reasoning why.

Which is why, I'd nominate the 15 September, as it is the rebirth of our national identity for the reasons listed above.

We're celebrating the best of Australia.

You've got to be a real left-wing super-spud to find fault or issue with it, or the intention behind it.

Dec 19, 2022 21:11:27 GMT NATH45 said:

Australia Day irregardless of the date will always seen as a celebration of our Colonial past - and for 95% of people there's nothing wrong with that. The entire conversation is pandering to that 5%, maybe 2% of which are indigenous, and the other 3% being instigators and disruptors.

These are some of the most pulled out of your arse stats I've ever seen.

Dec 19, 2022 23:08:10 GMT @admin said:

Dec 19, 2022 21:11:27 GMT NATH45 said:

Australia Day irregardless of the date will always seen as a celebration of our Colonial past - and for 95% of people there's nothing wrong with that. The entire conversation is pandering to that 5%, maybe 2% of which are indigenous, and the other 3% being instigators and disruptors.

These are some of the most pulled out of your arse stats I've ever seen.

That opinion is only 37% true
It is also 12% false
Which by my calculation, makes it 51% slice of pizza

Dec 19, 2022 23:08:10 GMT @admin said:

Dec 19, 2022 21:11:27 GMT NATH45 said:

Australia Day irregardless of the date will always seen as a celebration of our Colonial past - and for 95% of people there's nothing wrong with that. The entire conversation is pandering to that 5%, maybe 2% of which are indigenous, and the other 3% being instigators and disruptors.

These are some of the most pulled out of your arse stats I've ever seen.

At the 2021 census, 3.2% of the Australian population identified as being Indigenous — Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders. aiwh.gov.au supports that number.

2%? 3%? Close enough.

And, most Australians don't care.

Between cost of living pressures, 3 years of Covid, drought, fire, floods, etc.. most people in this country outside of the inner city echo chambers are more concerned with getting by.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

Dec 20, 2022 1:25:45 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 19, 2022 23:08:10 GMT @admin said:

These are some of the most pulled out of your arse stats I've ever seen.

At the 2021 census, 3.2% of the Australian population identified as being Indigenous — Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders. aiwh.gov.au supports that number.

2%? 3%? Close enough.

And, most Australians don't care.

Between cost of living pressures, 3 years of Covid, drought, fire, floods, etc.. most people in this country outside of the inner city echo chambers are more concerned with getting by.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

Where have you come up with the idea that only Indigenous people want to change the date? Most of the studies have it around 50-50 with support growing driven by young people. Like same sex marriage, it will happen inevitably, it's just annoying we always have to wait so long to do the right thing.

Dec 20, 2022 1:59:02 GMT @admin said:

Dec 20, 2022 1:25:45 GMT NATH45 said:

At the 2021 census, 3.2% of the Australian population identified as being Indigenous — Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders. aiwh.gov.au supports that number.

2%? 3%? Close enough.

And, most Australians don't care.

Between cost of living pressures, 3 years of Covid, drought, fire, floods, etc.. most people in this country outside of the inner city echo chambers are more concerned with getting by.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

Where have you come up with the idea that only Indigenous people want to change the date? Most of the studies have it around 50-50 with support growing driven by young people. Like same sex marriage, it will happen inevitably, it's just annoying we always have to wait so long to do the right thing.

Yeah, we just need one more generation of indoctrinated students to reach voting age and we will have achieved the lofty heights of the USSR, Cuba and East Germany.

Dec 20, 2022 1:59:02 GMT @admin said:

Dec 20, 2022 1:25:45 GMT NATH45 said:

At the 2021 census, 3.2% of the Australian population identified as being Indigenous — Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders. aiwh.gov.au supports that number.

2%? 3%? Close enough.

And, most Australians don't care.

Between cost of living pressures, 3 years of Covid, drought, fire, floods, etc.. most people in this country outside of the inner city echo chambers are more concerned with getting by.

Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.

Where have you come up with the idea that only Indigenous people want to change the date? Most of the studies have it around 50-50 with support growing driven by young people. Like same sex marriage, it will happen inevitably, it's just annoying we always have to wait so long to do the right thing.

I'm not suggesting that at all. But, like most things, if it doesn't impact them directly - they don't think about it. But if you're asked " do you support gay marriage? " the answer is likely " sure " similarly, the average Australian doesn't think about " changing the date " with any significant degree of deep thought or emotion. So " yeah sure " is the answer, because to your point, it's the right thing to do.

However, does changing the date actually change anything?

Dec 20, 2022 4:15:18 GMT NATH45 said:

Dec 20, 2022 1:59:02 GMT @admin said:

Where have you come up with the idea that only Indigenous people want to change the date? Most of the studies have it around 50-50 with support growing driven by young people. Like same sex marriage, it will happen inevitably, it's just annoying we always have to wait so long to do the right thing.

I'm not suggesting that at all. But, like most things, if it doesn't impact them directly - they don't think about it. But if you're asked " do you support gay marriage? " the answer is likely " sure " similarly, the average Australian doesn't think about " changing the date " with any significant degree of deep thought or emotion. So " yeah sure " is the answer, because to your point, it's the right thing to do.

However, does changing the date actually change anything?

You literally just said that 95% of people don't have a problem with celebrating Australia Day on the Jan 26, which is quite obviously not true, don't turn around and tell me you didn't suggest that.

The idea that it won't change anything is a very simplistic view to take. The apology for the stolen generation obviously doesn't make up for the atrocity that was committed, but it cost nothing to do, and would have been a balm for many people who were affected. We can't go back and undo the destruction on Indigenous people by colonisation, but no longer acting like it's something we are proud of is a step than any reasonable person should support. Symbolism is important. 

Here's the actual poll data from last year.

www.ipsos.com/en-au/ipsos-australia-day-poll-report

26% support changing he date, but I am sure that will increase as it becomes trendy to not celebrate Australia day.
For my business it is super weird, trying to get anything done with a customer in January is a mess, it is like everyone is in holiday mode up until Australia day and then everyone snaps back into work mode.

No. I said the majority don't think about it. Similarly to any other issue that doesn't impact them directly. They don't care until it becomes relevant. But, because it is the right thing to do, when asked, most will support it.

Ok, we change the date. Do the socio-economic issues, drug and alcohol violence, family and domestic violence cease or see a reduction?

We as a nation apologised for the stolen generation, in theory we change the date of Australia Day to reflect anything other than our Colonial past... does that fix anything? Sure, likeky it's an extended handshake, and officially taking accountability for the wrong doings of the past, and likely does wonders for reconciliation, but what happens next?

And that is the conversation a lot of conservative commentators have had. We do the right things (and we do, the support for Indigenous people is vast) and while ScoMo may have articulated it poorly, accepting that apology and acknowledging the want to do the right thing is harder, as it puts some degree of accountability back the Indigenous people - let's move forward, progressively together as apposed to there always being a divide. And in there is some personal responsibility as well to want to break some of these problematic, generational cycles.

It's not revolutionary but I think it's amazing just how demographic-based voting is. The Nepean Highway might as well be a country border. :lol:

Dec 22, 2022 22:27:38 GMT @admin said:

It's not revolutionary but I think it's amazing just how demographic-based voting is. The Nepean Highway might as well be a country border. :lol:

I'm in a blue area and I can get to the beach without having to touch one of those dirty red areas 🤪

Fellow Australians,

What are your views on the voice referendum?
I'm happy to acknowledge Aboriginal people in the constitution, but I have a huge problem with signing a blank cheque.

It really bothers me tha there is zero detail of what the legislation would like like or what powers the body would have.
It's a frightening case of "just trust me bro" as far as I can see.

I doubt it will pass as it currently is, as people will not know what they are voting for. Referendums need a bill really, otherwise they become whatever the campaigners claim they are and details becomes meaningless.   Look like they have several months to flesh shit out though. But without it being fleshed out not sure it even passes out of your parliament.

But it seems what is wanted is to make them like US territories. They get to come play with the lawmakers, but they have to sit at the kids table while the grownups are talking.

I quietly have my concerns, and have voiced my opinion on indigenous matters in the past here. And the thoughts of a lot of people who I've heard bring this up, is the theoretical " blank cheque " scenario and what sort of measures, expectations or goals are realistic and if realistically, they'll be actually committed to.

But what changes? There's countless services, support and organisations established to close the gap, to enrich and better lives of indigenous peoples, etc and so on, yet these cycles continues.

But, a voice to parliament is a good thing, however a degree of accountability needs to put onto each of these services to ensure they actually do make some positive impact on people's lives.

" We've listened, we're acting... here's the support... ok, nothings changed, why? "

Sometimes, some of these organisations are in the business of keeping themselves employed than realistically solving anything. If you find the cure, you potentially don't need the treatment anymore.

Devil is in the details. US House gave territories a voice then treat the reps like shit. They cannot vote, some elected reps tell them they are not real reps, and not too long ago one asked to make a floor speech they were asked who the fuck they were by the speaker's staff. They are basically laughed at when they ask for votes on statehood.

From what I been seeing, the voice to the parliament is basically the same thing as our territory reps. They get to speak, but no one has to listen.