Wait, I thought York & Matthews went by a different unofficial team name?

Why did I think they were informally known as the Lost Boyz?

Weren't the Bad Street Boyz comprised of Trent Acid & Johnny Kashmere?

Or were they the Backseat Boyz?

🤨

The Backseat Boys and Sick Nick Mondo are the two acts I associate with old school PW.

Can anyone remember the poster who had Mondo as their av/sig set back in the early 2000s? One of the few memories I have of lurking OG PW.

Nov 2, 2020 13:35:56 GMT Big Pete said:

The Backseat Boys and Sick Nick Mondo are the two acts I associate with old school PW.

Can anyone remember the poster who had Mondo as their av/sig set back in the early 2000s? One of the few memories I have of lurking OG PW.

Wasn't that c?

It still bums me out that Christian York never made it big. Like Christopher Daniels, and a few others, York seemed to be forever on the cusp of making it in 99-00, but he never managed to stick anywhere. I saw York have three separate farewells at Maryland Championship Wrestling shows in a one year span. First when he signed with WCW. Then when he signed a WWF Developmental deal. And finally when he went to dying day ECW. He's one of the best examples of a guy being hurt by the Big 3 consolidating into a Big 1.

🤯 ...

Backseat Boys= Trent Acid & Johnny Kashmere. They were one of the top Mid Atlantic indie teams in the early 2000s. They were big in CZW and also featured in early ROH.

Bad Street Boys= Originally a faction comprised of Joey Mathews/Christian York/Shane Helms/Shannon Moore. All 4 signed developmental deals with WCW in the Spring of '99. York & Matthews were quickly released and retained the Bad Street Boys name on the indies.

Helms & Moore remained with WCW and received additional training at the Power Plant for about a year before finally debuting with the Three Count gimmick, which was similar to their old Bad Street Boys gimmick.

York & Matthews never wrestled as the Lost Boys. That's Yar & Wolf! Or Azrael & Gabriel from Georgia if you prefer. Oh, and that Azrael is not to be confused with Azrieal from New Jersey who also wrestled as Angel Dust in ROH. Yeah, indie wrestling could get confusing. 

Speaking of confusing.... Don't think I ever watched a single Nick Mondo match from start to finish :$  I could never keep the early CZW stars straight. Nick Mondo, Nick Gage, Ric Blade....I didn't know one from the other.

I was never much of a CZW fan. Death Matches weren't really my thing. Only time I really had interest in the promotion was during Teddy Hart's brief stint. Went to my first of two CZW shows solely to see Teddy. Also got the tape featuring the wild Teddy vs. Trent Acid match, which is only one of the most heated matches in the history of independent wrestling. Crowd was split 50/50 and genuinely cared about the outcome. Beyond Teddy's CZW stint, I had a Best of the Best or two on tape, and went to one other (bad) show.
===============
Yesterday I discovered the Pitbulls had a brief USWA run way back in 1991 where they wrestled as The Pitbulldogs- Rabid Rex & Psychotic Spike. Nice names. NOT! Pitbulls #2 still had hair! They were a part of Downtown Bruno (Harvey Whippleman) and Robert Fuller's (Col. Robert Parker) Stud Stable.

New Obscure Wrestler Search- Don't even remember this guy's name but he wrestled in the Midwest (I want to say primarily in Illinois) during the early-mid 2000s. This particular mystery man did a knight gimmick. He was really over with crowds chanting his "Slay The Dragon!" catchphrase. It definitely isn't CHIKARA's Lance Steel.

Another fun character was Jersey's "Silver Bullet" Shawn Sheridan. He was ahead of his time as one of the first pop culture reference guys in wrestling. All his moves were named after NES games or other things from 80s pop culture. But nobody else was doing that sort of thing yet. So it was actually fresh and fun and exciting rather than cringy and played out as its been for the last 15 years. He once used the Nintendo Power Glove as a weapon!

NWA Powerrr's Sal Rinauro did a similar pop culture sponge gimmick in Georgia where he was even nicknamed "Saved By The" Sal. 

c Do you know the real story behind the disappearance of Blackjack Marciano? The unconfirmed story I've always heard is Blackjack quit the wrestling business after Hero roughed him up and that's what caused the bad blood between Kingston & Hero.

That MCW roster also had Lord Steven Regal, Molly Holly, the Mean Street Posse (featuring former indie darling Joey Abs!), internet darling Scott Vick, the Dupps, and Reckless Youth. Plus Regal, Eaton, and Smothers as trainers. Weird how I was super into following PPW, yet barely bothered to follow its more smark friendly successor.

What was the deal with Scott Vick anyway? He was like the #8 guy in The Flock. Yet the early 2000s IWC loved them some Scott Vick. It felt like he was rumored for years to be in line for a big WWF push, including coming in to immediately feud with HHH and/or Kane as the vengeful brother of Katie Vick.

C's MCW post reminded me of young Spanky. He was over with my friend Boo and I based on one promo we read about where he had a stable called Spanky and Friends. This "stable" consisted of Spanky talking to his stuffed animal "friends." Sold! For years I thought Spanky had a brighter future than bland Bryan because The Spankster did more sports entertainment. "Spanky is going to be the next WWF sports entertainer once he reaches puberty!"- 2000 Baker.

I've sadly never been able to find footage of Spanky's stuffed animal promo(s?). But I did scroll through some MCW footage this afternoon where I saw Joey Abs hit his Kilgore approved vertical suplex that I somehow totally no sold back in the day. I also found this cool Spanky shoot interview from 2002...
socaluncensored.com/2002/03/29/spanky-brian-kendrick-interview/

*Hardcore Kidd would have a short WWE run as Carlito's bodyguard Jesus. Pretty sure Pinoy Boy is TJ Perkins. Prototype is of course John Cena.

Seeing Frankie Kazarian's name in there reminded me of the original Evolution. No, not the HHH/Orton/Batista/Flair stable. But the tag team of post-ECW Nova and his protege Kazarian. They were a big deal on the indie scene for a minute. They wrestled primarily for Nova's brother, Donnie B, in his Jersey-based Phoenix Championship Wrestling promotion. Think they also did some shots in Kazarian's home promotion, the Cali-based UPW that Spanky mentioned multiple times in his interview.

Then I got to thinking about how Shannon Moore was rumored to come in as Hurricane's super hero sidekick for what felt like forever.

And last week I discovered Rob Eckos had a 7 year(!) run in TNA and is currently working for WWE as Robert Stone. Mind blown! Definitely not a guy I ever saw making it big. He was merely a replacement level indie wrestler back when I saw him as Rob Eckos teaming with Billy Bax as "The Valedictorians" in early 2000s ECWA, and serving as Matt Striker's Jannetty in The Blue Meanie's Philly-based 3PW.

Still no luck when it comes to finding additional info on the Illinois dragon slayer guy. I swear he existed! Will continue the search...

I'm just going to name drop random indy guys who always stuck out to me on HeAT and Velocity.

Number one with a bullet: Tyson Dux!

Nov 3, 2020 3:40:54 GMT 🤯 said:

I'm just going to name drop random indy guys who always stuck out to me on HeAT and Velocity.

Number one with a bullet: Tyson Dux!

My man! I never actually saw him wrestle but he was on the biggest Canadian television show - Kenny vs. Spenny.

Onyx is my guy. I remember being miffed they weren't pushing him in ROH during the year long period Bake was watching the show (otherwise known as the late career Corino days).

Yeah I had the Mondo sig for ages on PW. Had a Backseatz Boys banner and av I swapped to as well.

Lost Boyz were Azrael & Gabriel, they worked TNA-Wildside and other regional NWA feds. Such a great team. And yeah too many fucking Azraels when Lost Boyz Azrael would work in phily on shows with sometimes two other people using Azazel and Azreal.

Old school Evolution was fucking amazing. Nova and Kazarian worked so well together. Was a huge Nova fan.

In all honesty, the deathmatch side of CZW was mostly shit. The juniors always stole the show. I loved CZW but was mostly bored by the old guard and the death matches. The juniors doing death matches was good as they would actually wrestle and do spots. The old guard would just hit each other with shit. Guys like Mox were a breath of fresh air when they started to mix things up more and try to actually tell somewhat of a story in the match. But AJ, Rave, SAT's, Divine Storm, Mondo and Blade and Backseatz were blowing away the stuff that Lobo, Gage, Pain and Zandig were doing.

I for sure thought Spanky was the next HBK. He had the look, the persona, the moves, like everything. The love for the reefer I think sank him though.

Blackjack is a story. Officially he retired due to a knee injury. Unofficially, Blackjack started to travel with Hero for shows as they were pushing "A Few Good Men," but when it came time for the shows, Hero and Claudio wrestled but Blackjack did not. Then he got hurt and he was dropped from the group entirely and they rebranded as the Kings of Wrestling. Kingston said this drove Blackjack from the biz and he hates Hero to this day over it. After Blackjack retired officially and Kingston knew he was not coming back some of the stuff with Hero became real fights. Rumor is during the time when he fucked over Blackjack Hero was known for fucking over people and that is why despite him being the one who everyone had eyes coming out of the Hero / Punk feud, that almost no one worked with Hero and everyone wanted Punk, because Hero was known to be an asshole. Also is why long term, no one keeps Hero around.

As for the Mid-West Dragonslayer everyone and their mom used that gimmick to face American Dragon. I know early on Lance Cade used it. Donovan Morgan used it. Synn I think used it.

Looking at that region, may have been Ax Stevens.

Nov 2, 2020 15:59:43 GMT Baker said:

Speaking of confusing.... Don't think I ever watched a single Nick Mondo match from start to finish  I could never keep the early CZW stars straight. Nick Mondo, Nick Gage, Ric Blade....I didn't know one from the other.

This is also me because my entire frame of reference of CZW were 10 second clips I would download on a P2P network like Limewire, Kazaa or Morpheus, and it would be one of those three dudes jumping off an 18 wheeler onto a table in a parking lot, and who knows if the clips were even labeled correctly, but two Nicks and Gage/Blade reading similar combined them into one dude jumping off an 18 wheeler onto a table in a parking lot to me.

Until I saw that Nick Mondo documentary he made about himself, then I knew who he was. Gage and Blade? Still no idea.

Gage is a the single most intense fucking wrestler there is. Outside of the painkiller years that lead to the bank robbery, he brings 200% percent all of the time. Moxley said when they fought, Gage was get so into it that Mox would have to REALLY lay into him with a chair or light tube at times just to bring back to reality. Almost all guys that wrestled him claims it is somewhere between a match and a fight. Gage does not go out to hurt people, but just gets so into the character he can lose focus. He also tough as fucking nails. When he got the life threatening injury at ToD he was fighting with the EMTs to go back and finish the damn match.

I cannot believe how big he got. He was always talented and clearly passionate, but to see how big MDK got is wild.

Video of the match were Gage nearly killed David Arquette by accident. Arquette goes to reverse a spot and slices his neck on the broken light-tube Gage was carrying. Arquette was fucking legit and finished the god damn match with his neck sliced open.

Wrestling is really fucking stupid sometimes.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to fucking shattered glass and light tubes?

Nov 5, 2020 17:11:14 GMT Emperor said:

Wrestling is really fucking stupid sometimes.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to fucking shattered glass and light tubes?

I mean, both forms of combat have their origins in the days of gladiator entertainment... Right? So I can see how the hand-to-hand combat version could evolve into wrestling and boxing and MMA and thereby see pro wrestling simulating that. But then I guess I could also see (with way more of a stretch) pro wrestling just giving us a modern day spin on Maximus lopping off heads and limbs with short swords*.

(*because only pussies like Drew McIntyre need long swords.)

Thumbtacks are like sprinkles... it's always better when available.

Nov 5, 2020 7:08:10 GMT Kilgore said:

Nov 2, 2020 15:59:43 GMT Baker said:

Speaking of confusing.... Don't think I ever watched a single Nick Mondo match from start to finish  I could never keep the early CZW stars straight. Nick Mondo, Nick Gage, Ric Blade....I didn't know one from the other.

This is also me because my entire frame of reference of CZW were 10 second clips I would download on a P2P network like Limewire, Kazaa or Morpheus, and it would be one of those three dudes jumping off an 18 wheeler onto a table in a parking lot, and who knows if the clips were even labeled correctly, but two Nicks and Gage/Blade reading similar combined them into one dude jumping off an 18 wheeler onto a table in a parking lot to me.

All this. Glad to see I'm not the only one who always mixed up those early CZW stars.

Big Pete Onyx...there's a name I haven't heard in a loooong time. Had no idea he was still wrestling in the mid 2010s. Just looked him up and whoa! The Elite Guard. I had forgotten all about that obscure TNA faction. Onyx/Chad Collyer/Hotstuff Hernandez. What a random group of guys. That about sums up 2003-2004 TNA. 

c This "slay the dragon" guy had nothing to do with American Dragon. He was just a gimmicky midcarder doing a knight gimmick. He cut promos in Elizabethan English and his "slay the dragon" line got over with the crowd who proceeded to chant the line throughout his match. It may have only been this one show for all I know since I never heard of this guy before or since, can find no info on him, and don't even remember his name.

Two more unconfirmed Chris Hero stories...

From about 2003-2005 there was rumor circulating on the old ROH message board claiming the reason Chris Hero never worked for ROH had something to do with a lobster dinner. 



Now I admittedly forget the exact details, but it went something like this. Hero met with Gabe. Likely around the time Punk & Colt came in. Gabe took Hero out to eat. Hero wanted lobster. Gabe took him to McDonald's or something like that instead. Hero was offended and the two had heat for a while. Iirc Hero even went so far as to claim he would never work for ROH. Looks like the two patched up any differences they may have had long ago. 

Another "Hero is a jerk" story revolves around a guy named Dylan Night. Night was a Corino protege getting the big babyface push in Steve's (lousy) Pennsylvania-based PWF promotion. Night got the rub of working with Shinya Hashimoto in an internet famous 4 way Ironman Match for the NWA Championship that took place in front of 20 people in what appeared to be a literal basement somewhere in Pennsylvania. 

Anyway, Night wrestled Hero at a PWF show I actually attended. The match was pretty forgettable. All I remember about it was a Piledriver being hit and Hero entering to Holding Out For A Hero by the great Bonnie Tyler. Fast Forward a bit....

Hero is roughing up some jabroni on an IWA Mid South show. Prazak and Somebody (Punk, probably) are on commentary taking shots at Dylan Night. Something like...

Prazak: That's the reason Dylan Night quit the wrestling business!
Punk?: LOL Dylan Knight. What a loser.

Quick bit of research deems this plausible. Hero wrestled Night in May 2002. Night only wrestled a handful of matches after that before beginning a near 3 year hiatus from wrestling in July 2002. Chris Hero was never again booked in PWF.

Prazak was always such a cuntbag. Don't even know if that's a proper word, but it fits he's a little weasel and it always creeped me out when he posted on the old board. He didn't do anything wrong per se and 90% of his posts were just shilling his Shimmer DVDs, but it always came off like a Dad trying to hang out with his son and his friends. Like no, go away.

Nov 8, 2020 3:34:33 GMT @ness said:

Prazak was always such a cuntbag. 

Yep. 

Don't even know if that's a proper word, but it fits he's a little weasel and it always creeped me out when he posted on the old board. He didn't do anything wrong per se and 90% of his posts were just shilling his Shimmer DVDs, but it always came off like a Dad trying to hang out with his son and his friends. Like no, go away.

Yep again. 

Can definitely confirm Prazak's cuntbag status. I used to have run ins with him way back in the old AOL wrestling chat rooms during the late 90s. Of course, I was no prize either in those days. We were like oil and water.

Nov 8, 2020 4:02:36 GMT Baker said:

Nov 8, 2020 3:34:33 GMT @ness said:

Prazak was always such a cuntbag. 

Yep. 

Don't even know if that's a proper word, but it fits he's a little weasel and it always creeped me out when he posted on the old board. He didn't do anything wrong per se and 90% of his posts were just shilling his Shimmer DVDs, but it always came off like a Dad trying to hang out with his son and his friends. Like no, go away.

Yep again. 

Can definitely confirm Prazak's cuntbag status. I used to have run ins with him way back in the old AOL wrestling chat rooms during the late 90s. Of course, I was no prize either in those days. We were like oil and water.

Those AOL chat days. I know I made an old thread about early internet stuff, but discovering the IWC but not the full experience in my early fandom was a wild time.

Nov 5, 2020 17:11:14 GMT Emperor said:

Wrestling is really fucking stupid sometimes.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to fucking shattered glass and light tubes?

Cornette made some really good points talking about the Dragonuv v WALTER match, and how idiotic wrestling has become. Mostly in regards to there being such a high degree of risk and permanent injury with high spots. But these death/hardcore/garbage matches are exactly the same. 

I think one of the biggest WTFs as a fan is finding out bumps take more out of you than lighttubes.

Nov 9, 2020 23:17:31 GMT NATH45 said:

Nov 5, 2020 17:11:14 GMT Emperor said:

Wrestling is really fucking stupid sometimes.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to fucking shattered glass and light tubes?

Cornette made some really good points talking about the Dragonuv v WALTER match, and how idiotic wrestling has become. Mostly in regards to there being such a high degree of risk and permanent injury with high spots. But these death/hardcore/garbage matches are exactly the same. 

Agreed. I could rewrite my question.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to spiking wrestlers on their heads ten times a match?

Nov 10, 2020 12:59:03 GMT Emperor said:

Nov 9, 2020 23:17:31 GMT NATH45 said:

Cornette made some really good points talking about the Dragonuv v WALTER match, and how idiotic wrestling has become. Mostly in regards to there being such a high degree of risk and permanent injury with high spots. But these death/hardcore/garbage matches are exactly the same. 

Agreed. I could rewrite my question.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to spiking wrestlers on their heads ten times a match?

Because everybody kicking out of finishers. GOTTA UP THE STAKES!

Nov 10, 2020 20:42:34 GMT @ness said:

Nov 10, 2020 12:59:03 GMT Emperor said:

Agreed. I could rewrite my question.

How did we go from an athletic contest where two wrestlers try to pin one another to spiking wrestlers on their heads ten times a match?

Because everybody kicking out of finishers. GOTTA UP THE STAKES!

Needs more superkick.

Also, I can't stand NJPW's obsession with trading forearms.

The strike exchanging can get a bit much sometimes, but it's a core facet of Strong Style.

When did the strike exchange first get introduced into strong style?

When did it jump the shark to become what it is today?

If it's stiff as hell, sure. But most look damn weak.

Tom "Mega Man" Magee was way ahead of his time as the King of Canadian Weak Style.

Look at Minoru Suzuki and Shingo Takagi, this past week. Must have been 40 forearm strikes in the first minute.

Nov 11, 2020 1:28:28 GMT 🤯 said:

When did the strike exchange first get introduced into strong style?

When did it jump the shark to become what it is today?

Not a clue on the first question. I don't know where Strong Style originates in general. Probably something to do with Antonio Inoki because he did everything. Sounds like a Strobe history question.

When did it jump the shark? I don't know. Maybe it was the infamous four minute chop sequence between Kobashi and Sasaki in 2005?

Nov 11, 2020 3:57:49 GMT NATH45 said:

Look at Minoru Suzuki and Shingo Takagi, this past week. Must have been 40 forearm strikes in the first minute.

We have a closet NJPW fan!

Nov 11, 2020 19:26:35 GMT Emperor said:

Nov 11, 2020 1:28:28 GMT 🤯 said:

When did the strike exchange first get introduced into strong style?

When did it jump the shark to become what it is today?

Not a clue on the first question. I don't know where Strong Style originates in general. Probably something to do with Antonio Inoki because he did everything. Sounds like a Strobe history question.

When did it jump the shark? I don't know. Maybe it was the infamous four minute chop sequence between Kobashi and Sasaki in 2005?

As far as I know, Strong Style was just a marketing term for Inoki and New Japan, as he tried to portray pro wrestling as the strongest fighting style. Matches with stiff strikes and submissions treated seriously, a style that would form the bedrock for shoot style. In contrast to NWA-member AJPW's more American style. As the style of New Japan has morphed, Strong Style has continued to be used.

I'm not well versed enough about 00s Puro to know when the strike exchanges started to invade everything. It does feel like Chopbashi may be the origin. But for Kobashi, it made sense. As a character, he was more heart than brains and was almost a big dumb jock really, always trying to prove his toughness. So him wanting to do these extended strike exchanges where he hits and then macho challenges you to hit next makes sense. And others wanting to see if they could match up to the ultimate in that regard also worked. The Sasaki one is the most extreme example ever, but it is definitely defensible. As a character, Sasaki is the closest analogue to Kobashi from New Japan. An interpromotional dream match between two big meatheads on NOAH's biggest ever show in front of a stadium crowd. Not skinny, characterless indy worker A vs. skinny characterless indy worker B in the second match in front of 50 people.

But yes, strike exchanges are far too frequent, often between workers that shouldn't use them.