Nov 15, 2020 14:06:18 GMT @ness said:

Backdoor Brocktober countdown here we come?

Brock comes in whichever door he wants.

I just watched this in the course of doing my SmackDown research, as well as Round 1 and 4.

They're all such hot messes. They also make me wonder if E&C and the Hardyz would've gotten as over had the WWF been as successful as WCW in establishing a cruiserweight division throughout 1997 and 1998... Kinda feel like the audience was largely sitting on their hands by the fourth match, just waiting for high spots. No wonder they had to escalate to a ladder at No Mercy.

The only way the WWF would have been able to pull that off is if they signed Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Ultimo Dragon, Dean Malenko, X-Pac, Chris Jericho, Psichosis and Juventud Guerrera all at the same time and just went all SmackDown Six with it. There is no way that Taka Michinoku, Brian Christopher, Papi Chulo and Pantera were going to compete with that and it wasn't through a lack of trying either.

They would have all gotten over regardless. Hayes was a big fan of all four acts and the WWF had been toying with pushing Edge on a couple occassions (his debut and then right after King of the Ring 1999 when he nailed Jeff with a Batista on Elijah Burke level spear).

The one thing I took out of the project is that the Hardyz were actually good workers. Their matches on Shotgun and Heat prior to the Hayes 'dress like you're wrestling in ECW' push were all well put together and so many teams had well put together matches. Edge and Christian on the other hand could be spot monkeys and would hit all these great spots but the crowd would rarely bite on it. I think the one exception was the SummerSlam 1999 gauntlet match which funnily enough was the match that made me a fan of theirs from an early age.

This came after the No Mercy 1999 boom, but this is a good example of what the Hardyz are capable of.



Compare that to the Unforgiven 1999 tag between E&C/New Age Outlaws and there's a real difference between how both matches are laid out.

*Moved all the recent Smackdown discussion in the Match Review thread over to this thread.

Also just watched the two Hardys vs. Edge & Christian Smackdown matches from October '99. Like Big Pete , the ricochet DDT spot always stuck with me. Unfortunately, I was going through my pompous smark phase and was all "They stole that from Boyce LeGrande vs. Vinny Massaro in APW!" Wrong! Turns out Matt was doing that spot way back in his OMEGA days. If anything, Massaro & LeGrande were ripping off Matt Hardy. Anyway, the ricochet DDT match made the big list of Honorable Mentions on my 2008 list.

But I am inclined to agree with 🤯 on those matches here in 2020. They both had some cool stuff, but something was missing- namely crowd heat. The contrived finish in the second match didn't work since the crowd couldn't have cared less who won or lost. Despite the boatload of cool moves, those two teams just weren't over yet. Luckily that would all change within a few weeks and those four never looked back. Fwiw the Hardys were always over with me. E&C had also been over with me since their Brood days, albeit to a lesser extent than the Hardys.
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I didn't really want to do this, but I just can't help myself. Here are my Top 25 Smackdown matches from 2008ish listed in chronological order. If nothing else, it will provide more recommendations to any interested parties. Maybe I'll come back later with the big list of Honorable Mentions.

Steve Austin vs. Val Venis- 10/21/99

Rikishi vs. Triple H- 1/6/00- WWF Championship Match

Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs. Hardys vs. Dudleys vs. Edge & Christian- 5/24/01- TLC Tag Title Match
Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit- 5/31/01- WWF Championship Match

Edge vs. Kurt Angle- 5/30/02- Cage Match
Hulk Hogan & Edge vs. Billy & Chuck- 7/4/02- Tag Title Match
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle- 7/4/02- WWF Championship Match
Edge vs. Chris Jericho- 7/25/02- Cage Match
Rey Mysterio/Edge/John Cena vs. Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero/Kurt Angle- 8/8/02
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero- 9/26/02- No DQ Match
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit- 9/26/02
Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit- 11/7/02- 2/3 Falls Tag Title Match
Kurt Angle vs. Edge vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero- 12/5/02- #1 Contender Match

Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio- 1/23/03
Rey Mysterio vs. Matt Hardy- 6/5/03- Cruiserweight Title Match
Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker- 9/4/03- WWE Championship Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit- 12/4/03- WWE Championship Match

Undertaker vs. John Cena- 6/24/04

Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio- 2/10/05
Kurt Angle vs. Marty Jannetty- 3/17/05
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero- 5/5/05- Street Fight

Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton- 1/27/06- No Holds Barred Match
Undertaker vs. Great Khali- 8/18/06- Last Man Standing Match

Matt Hardy vs. Joey Mercury- 3/2/07- MITB Qualifier
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero- 9/7/07- I Quit Match

Recent Watches

Rock n Sock vs. Unholy Alliance - N/A. It's better than I remember and I especially like the interactions between Show/Foley. Show tossing Foley from the ramp to the grave was a fantastic spot. The finish is awful by design with HHH laying out The Big Show but burying Foley allowing The Unholy Alliance to win the titles. It's a flat finish that kills the crowd until Austin emerges from the back of an ambulance and all hell breaks loose. This was weeks after HHH laid out Austin at SummerSlam, so the crowd is going crazy and the show ends with Austin driving his vehicle into HHH's - as was the style of the time.

Chris Benoit vs. HHH - Honorable Mention. Benoit is fighting for a contract for him and the other WCW converts. The match is all Benoit with HHH bumping around like Ric Flair to put over all of Benoit's offence. Benoit submits HHH but Hebner is down. Benoit hits a diving head-butt, but Hebner is still out of it that his slow count keeps HHH in the match. Earl misses the low blow, HHH hits a pedigree and survives. I'm not sure how it stacks up with the Rikishi match, but this is one of those early SmackDown matches I remember and it's a strong debut from Benoit.

Cactus Jack vs. X-Pac - N/A. They brawl around the ring until X-Pac finds himself in the box seat and attempts a Bronco Buster. Cactus gets out of the way and drags Pac crotch first into the ropes. It's falls count anywhere so Pac makes his way to the back, Jack makes chase but constantly falls prey to Pac throwing a weapon at his head. He eventually makes his way to the parking lot where he's set upon by D-Generation X. HHH-Cactus brawl inside the DX bus, but Cactus is caught off-guard as the segment draws to a close.

Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle - Contender. Post-Royal Rumble 2003 with Kurt still feeling the effects of his epic with Benoit. Rey starts off with a hit and run approach baiting Angle to charge in at him. It works until Angle lays Rey out with a great sit-out powerbomb. Angle starts man-handling and heeling on Rey, slowing the match to a more methodical pace. The match picks up again when Rey turns a front suplex into a northern lights. Neat spot where Kurt charges in at Rey at the corner, Rey boots him then slides underneath his legs to boot him in the mid-section. Rey charges in at Kurt, Kurt alley-oops him but Rey lands effortlessly on the ropes and head-scissors Kurt out of the ring. Big time Great American 96 splash onto the outside by Rey as Heyman is screaming on the outside. Rey tosses Kurt back into the ring and follows up with a springboard leg-drop but Kurt kicks out for a good near-fall. The match continues with some tremendous back and forth action until Rey goes for a West Coast Pop, which Kurt reverses into an Electric Chair where he rams Rey's head into the ring-post, slams him down to the ground and pins him Dave Taylor style. I will need to see the 2005 Japan match, but this held up extremely well.

Couple from the Brett Mix (aka MachoWarrior) list.

Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - May 2001
Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker - 2003
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - June 2005
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - April 2005
Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit - December 2003
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - November 2002
Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs. World's Greatest Tag Team - 2003
Steve Austin vs. Rob Van Dam - 2001
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay - November 2006
Chris Benoit vs. Edge - 2007
John Morrison vs. Edge - 2009
Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge - September 2002
Brock Lesnar vs. Chris Benoit - 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Matt Hardy - 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle - February 2005
Eddie Guerrero vs. John Bradshaw Layfield - July 2004
The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton - 2004 (?)
The Undertaker vs. John Cena - 2003
Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Los Guerreros - February 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton - 2006
Los Guerreros vs. World's Greatest Tag Team - December 2003
Rey Mysterio & Batista vs. MNM - December 2005
Rey Mysterio & Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T & Eddie Guerrero - 2004
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - April 2001

Just found some more under SD
Kurt Angle vs. Edge vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero - 2002
Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz - 2001
Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio & Edge - 2/3 Falls - 2002
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle Iron Man - 2003
John Morrison vs. Rey Mysterio - September 2009
Los Guerreros vs. World's Greatest Tag Team - 2003
Batista vs. Rey Mysterio - December 2009
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - February 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - September 2002
Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio - October 2010
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton No Holds Barred - February 2006
Tajiri vs. Rey Mysterio - 2004
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - 2002
Kurt Angle vs. Edge Cage - 2002
Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay - 2006
CM Punk vs. John Morrison - June 2009
Chris Benoit vs. A-Train - 2003

Fuck gotta sign up for the network don't I?

Nostalgia time.

MachoMark's list is the best one yet.

The Benoit/HHH match Pete mentioned made my Honorable Mentions last time, while Rey/Angle from January 2003 finished in the upper half of my Top 25.

@ness I've been able to find most of the matches I was looking for on Youtube or DailyMotion.
====================
While I desperately wanted it at the time, I agree with Big Pete on a WWF Cruiserweight division being a tough sell during the Attitude Era. The initial wave of WCW Cruisers got over strictly on ring work. That worked in 1996 WCW. But late 90s WWF fans were more about sports entertainment and brutality than "good wrestling." Those Hardys vs. E&C matches are a good example of what I mean. It was like WWF had to retrain their fans to enjoy good wrestling.

My big idea in real time was for WWF to build around Taka and have him feud with the Kaientai guys one by one. It wouldn't have worked. For starters, Taka was a better heel than face. But at least it would have been something.
====================
I've always been of the belief that ECW & WCW Rey Misterio Jr. > WWE Rey Mysterio. Maybe that's still true, but Rey appeared 8 times on my Top 25 Smackdown matches list, and something like 15 in my Top 50ish. So whatever decline there was, it mustn't have been steep.

Anyway, I got to thinking about all Rey's quality Smackdown matches, and my thoughts soon drifted to Akio. You know who was cool? Akio. That's who. He had the best spinkick since the glory days of Owen, Savio, and Kid, did this cool twisty moonsault, and had a knack for taking bumps right on his head. I wanted Akio to get a bigger push. Instead he got future endeavored.

Only to return a year later with a slightly bigger push as Jimmy Wang Yang and....I lost interest pretty quickly. Despite having more character, JWY just didn't do it for me the way Akio had. I'm guessing he lost a step or two. JWY had a good match or two teaming with Shannon Moore against Miz & Morrison on WWECW, but that's about it. Akio > Jimmy Wang Yang. I also just discovered JWY is only 39 years old. Good grief! I figured he'd be in his mid-late 40s. 

There was a rumor going around back in the day that Akio was one of Vince's favorites. Legend has it he once put Akio (and Nunzio) over during a big meeting in front of all the boys. Another dirt sheet rumor from another meeting, this one involving the creative team, claimed Vince proposed doing something with Akio only to discover he had been future endeavored a year earlier. Vince was all "Dammit, pal!" and this meeting was allegedly the catalyst behind Akio getting rehired. 
====================
Anyway, I remembered a match where Rey hit a Code Red on Akio and wanted to rewatch it.  Alas, I could not find the Code Red match. But I did check out two Rey/Akio matches from late 2003-early 2004. Neither one made my list, or even Honorable Mentions, the last time I did this, but that doesn't mean they weren't fun matches. Heck, give me 5 minutes and I could come up with 100 fun Smackdown matches.

These were both nice little action fests. Akio does indeed enjoy taking moves right on his head. He still has a cool spinkick and twisty moonsault, too. I'd always pop when Rey would finish with his cool springboard frankensteiner rather than his infinitely less cool springboard leg drop or splash. Both matches end with Akio spiking himself on the Springboard Frankensteiner! Akio also spikes himself RVD/Val style on a DDT in one match, and does the same on a Slop Drop with frippery in the other. He even hit a Buckle Bomb! Which, if memory serves, was only the second in WWE history (the first being Angle on Benoit in their February 2003 Smackdown match). Akio actually reminds me a little of the aforementioned Kid. He throws those quick leg drops like Kid did, bumps hard like Kid, and even took a sort of super X Factor in one of the matches.

Verdict- As far as action fests go, I'd actually put these a little above the Hardys vs. Edge & Christian matches I watched the other day. But no Code Red=No List.
===================
I don't even really want to rate these matches anymore. That's soooo 2000s. Now I just want to watch random Smackdown matches until I get bored and move onto the next shiny thing. 

Vince be like Baker owes me 9.99!

But yeah my goal here is to watch each match as it's revealed in the actual countdown.

Nov 16, 2020 19:49:19 GMT @ness said:

Vince be like Baker owes me 9.99!

But yeah my goal here is to watch each match as it's revealed in the actual countdown.

I like this idea.

I'm with ya, brudda!

Nov 16, 2020 19:49:19 GMT @ness said:

Vince be like Baker owes me 9.99!

Too bad, pal! 

I spent years of my life being the greatest shill Vince ever had. I also wrote to WWF Magazine giving him free advice on how to beat WCW. One of my ideas was to poach The Giant. Vince eventually did. WCW went out of business two years later. Coincidence? I think not!

And how does Vince repay me for my years of loyalty? By making his product so unwatchable it drove me, his most loyal fan, away. And was I ever hired to work on the WWF creative team? That would be a big, fat NO. 

I didn't turn on Vince. Vince turned on me. Take your $9.99 and shove it, pal.

I work for NWA now.
===================
I'm not sure we ever get to the actual Countdown stage of this project. Only 4 of us have expressed any interest in participating. But this will still be a valuable resource for anybody interested in good Smackdown matches. I'm also going to make a Raw Match thread before I go to sleep. Shootist and I have been discussing good SNME matches in yet another thread. So maybe I'll open up a thread for SNME Matches as well. 

Or we could make this a long term project where we all take a full year to watch Raw/Smackdown/SNME matches and then vote on our favorites? 

Did somebody order a Code Red?

Rey Mysterio & Torrie Wilson vs. Jamie Noble & Nidia - SmackDown 9/19/02

It's basically a Rey/Noble match with a couple of Torrie Wilson spots thrown in. Highlight is a Bronco Buster spot where Torrie nails Nidia, Noble violently drags Nidia out of the ring and then puts himself in position begging Torrie to hit the move on him. We do get a Code Red thrown in for the finish - Rey must have been studying his ROH tapes.

Also have your other code red.

Billy & Chuck vs. Jamie Noble & Tajiri - SmackDown 9/26/02

:lol: I forgot that was the name of their Doomsday Device.

I'm down for this to just be a SmackDown lovefest thread for a while to specifically review SmackDown matches.

I know I for one would like some time to revisit nostalgic favorites as well as heralded matches from eras when my viewing lapsed.

Nov 17, 2020 5:30:19 GMT Big Pete said:

Did somebody order a Code Red?

Rey Mysterio & Torrie Wilson vs. Jamie Noble & Nidia - SmackDown 9/19/02

It's basically a Rey/Noble match with a couple of Torrie Wilson spots thrown in. Highlight is a Bronco Buster spot where Torrie nails Nidia, Noble violently drags Nidia out of the ring and then puts himself in position begging Torrie to hit the move on him. We do get a Code Red thrown in for the finish - Rey must have been studying his ROH tapes.

Also have your other code red.

Billy & Chuck vs. Jamie Noble & Tajiri - SmackDown 9/26/02

:lol: I forgot that was the name of their Doomsday Device.

Bless this man for proving chivalry ain't dead baybay.

Nov 17, 2020 2:27:30 GMT Baker said:

Nov 16, 2020 19:49:19 GMT @ness said:

Vince be like Baker owes me 9.99!

Too bad, pal! 

I spent years of my life being the greatest shill Vince ever had. I also wrote to WWF Magazine giving him free advice on how to beat WCW. One of my ideas was to poach The Giant. Vince eventually did. WCW went out of business two years later. Coincidence? I think not!

And how does Vince repay me for my years of loyalty? By making his product so unwatchable it drove me, his most loyal fan, away. And was I ever hired to work on the WWF creative team? That would be a big, fat NO. 

I didn't turn on Vince. Vince turned on me. Take your $9.99 and shove it, pal.

I work for NWA now.
===================
I'm not sure we ever get to the actual Countdown stage of this project. Only 4 of us have expressed any interest in participating. But this will still be a valuable resource for anybody interested in good Smackdown matches. I'm also going to make a Raw Match thread before I go to sleep. Shootist and I have been discussing good SNME matches in yet another thread. So maybe I'll open up a thread for SNME Matches as well. 

Or we could make this a long term project where we all take a full year to watch Raw/Smackdown/SNME matches and then vote on our favorites? 

I would have to go back and do some serious research since the vast majority of post 2000 WWF TV was one and done with me.

Just popping in to say to check out AJ Styles vs. Daniel Bryan from this year if you want to have a match from this decade on your list - it's fantastic.

Nov 17, 2020 5:30:19 GMT Big Pete said:

Did somebody order a Code Red?

Rey Mysterio & Torrie Wilson vs. Jamie Noble & Nidia - SmackDown 9/19/02

It's basically a Rey/Noble match with a couple of Torrie Wilson spots thrown in. Highlight is a Bronco Buster spot where Torrie nails Nidia, Noble violently drags Nidia out of the ring and then puts himself in position begging Torrie to hit the move on him. We do get a Code Red thrown in for the finish - Rey must have been studying his ROH tapes.

Also have your other code red.

Billy & Chuck vs. Jamie Noble & Tajiri - SmackDown 9/26/02

I forgot that was the name of their Doomsday Device.

New idea. Only matches featuring a (proper) Code Red are eligible for my list.

I had completely forgotten (if I ever knew at all) Billy & Chuck had a move called the Code Red. What I do remember is reading about Billy & Chuck getting over in Japan and the Japanese press dubbing them the "Red Pants Party." It's a crying shame that team name didn't catch on.
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I can't sit on it any longer. Here is my Smackdown Honorable Mention Match List from 2008ish listed chronologically with commentary....

Hardy Boys vs. Edge & Christian- 10/7/99 (no date listed, but it would have been the ricochet DDT match)

HHH vs. Chris Benoit- 2/3/00
HHH vs. Tazz- 4/20/00
Hardcore Holly vs. Chris Jericho vs. Val Venis- 5/25/00
Kurt Angle vs. Hardcore Holly- 6/29/00
*The HHH matches feature Trips unofficially unifying the WWF, WCW, and ECW championships. That was huge to me in 2000. Guessing the Benoit match holds up, while the Tazz match that caused Nobi to give up on WWF will be more of an "of the moment" thing. The 3 way was a fun action fest. Think a poor man's Rey/Angle/Benoit. Angle/Holly is pretty famous for Holly breaking his arm and still gutting it out to the finish. 

RVD vs. Kurt Angle- 9/6/01
RVD vs. Steve Austin- 10/4/01
RVD vs. The Rock- 10/25/01
*I loved RVD in 2001. He won all 3 of these matches against major WWF superstars. So these 3 no doubt got the markout bonus. Don't really remember the matches tbh, though the Austin bout appears on a lot Best SmackDown Matches lists, while the Angle match also shows up on a few.

Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge & The Rock- 8/1/02
*Drawing a blank on this one as well, though I'm sure it was quality.

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit- 2/6/03
*Surprised this made it. Remember thinking it suffered from the law of diminishing returns. Also has Benoit no selling the first Buckle Bomb in WWE history.

Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri- 1/1/04? (No date listed. They had several quality Smackdown bouts. Bit of research reveals it was probably this one)
Smackdown Royal Rumble- 1/29/04 
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chavo Guerrero- 2/19/04
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio- 3/18/04
Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio- 8/26/04
*SD Royal Rumble features Eddie & Angle having the GOAT Battle Royal Rumble finish until HBK/Taker came along. This was my favorite Eddie/Rey WWE match. It's actually a little reminiscent of Bret/Kid. High praise, indeed. Continuing the Bret theme, let's go with this Eddie/Chavo bout as the poor man's Bret/Owen. Rey/Angle circa 02-05 is the most automatic match in SD history imo. 

JBL vs. Kurt Angle- 1/27/05
JBL vs. Kurt Angle vs. Booker T vs. Big Show- 4/28/05
MNM vs. Hardcore Holly & Charlie Haas- 5/05 or 6/05 (they had fun matches 2 weeks in a row. Don't know which one this was supposed to be)
JBL vs. Christian vs. Booker T vs. Chris Benoit vs. Undertaker vs. Muhammed Hassan- 6/30/05
*JBL & Angle were my two favorite wrestlers at the time so an "epic" Last Man Standing between the two was a guaranteed win. Both multi mans have a lot to like, including vintage JBL finishes. Guessing they would have cracked my Top 30 had I ordered these Honorable Mentions. Both MNM vs. HaasHolly matches are recommended. The 2nd is a 15 minute Ironman, while the first has a crowd chanting for Hardcore Holly like he's The Rock. Awesome!

MNM vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista- 12/05 or 1/06
*They had 3 fun matches in 4 weeks. Guessing I went with the Cage Match blowoff, but cannot confirm. Nitro taking Rey's reverse frankensteiner off the top will never get old.

Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker- 3/3/06
JBL vs. Chris Benoit- 4/14/06
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit- 5/5/06
Rey Mysterio vs. JBL- 5/26/06
King Booker vs. Rey Mysterio- 7/28/06
*Meh. See Angle/Benoit from '03 for my thoughts on this Angle/Taker match. Benoit & Finlay had good chemistry and hard hitting matches. This one stands out because it was the first. JBL/Benoit is a cage match with everything you want from a JBL/Benoit cage match. Rey/JBL had high drama due to being a Title vs. Career match. Good night, sweet prince Book/Rey was peak King Booker and segued into Rey's next feud. 

"SD 6"- lol. Yep. That's what I have written down. Assume it was a reminder to revisit a bunch of awesome, yet half forgotten bouts from SD's glory days.
"Los G"(uerreros)- See above.
"WGTT"- Same deal as Los Guerreros. Guess I realized even in 2008 how criminal it was that not a single WGTT match made my list. WGTT ruled! But even now I cannot think of one WGTT tv match that stands out above the rest. They were like the kings of *** tv match. See also: 2007 Matt Hardy.

Currently going through 🤯's SmackDown Six timeline. I tend to agree post-Vengeance 2002 is the starting off point. That show included the debut of Rey Mysterio and the following week both Benoit and Eddie debut and face off against Rock and Edge in that match Baker highlighted.

I've yet to watch that since I initially skipped forward to post-SummerSlam initially. I have about 13 matches down as contenders, but the five I can see staying.

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. The Undertaker - 28/8/02
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle - 12/9/02
Billy & Chuck vs. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - 19/9/02
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero - 26/9/02
Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - 26/9/02

Angle/Benoit/Taker was just a smidge worse than the other triple threat but it was a fun watch that made Taker's win feel triumphant. Rey/Angle was just as good as the January 03 match I watched before with a lot of spots lifted directly from it. Billy & Chuck vs. Benoit and Angle was a really well worked character driven match. Edge/Eddie holds up even better in context with Edge really stepping his game up. Rey/Angle/Benoit was even better the second time. I love how the finish was a play on an earlier spot in the match, except Rey goes after Benoit on both occassions.

@ness might have been on to something after all. I was hitting the jackpot early on. Now the well is running dry and it's like I might have to resubscribe to the WWE Network after all. 

RVD vs. Kurt Angle- 10/18/01- Wanted to watch their match from my 2008 list. I got all the way to the end before realizing this was the wrong match. D'oh! Still, you can never go wrong with a match between my two favorite wrestlers at the time. The SD crowd knows what's up, cheering for both men. But it's not the typical dueling chant. RVD fans will chant for their guy. Then the Angle fans will chime in for their hero. RVD got more chants, but Kurt's fans were louder.

First few minutes are the fast paced back and forth action you'd expect from these two. But the match actually gets better when it slows down. See, because RVD made Kurt bleed his own blood with an errant kick. Kurt bleeding from his mouth/nose added drama to the match. It was just getting good(er) when RVD locked the bloody Kurt in a chinlock of sorts. The match now had a story. But that darn Texas Rattlesnake attacks Angle a short time later for the DQ. BOO! Yet even that bummer of a finish leads to this awesome show ending angle....



The upcoming No Mercy PPV was already a must watch due to my 3 favorite wrestlers at the time (with Austin admittedly a distant #3) being in the Triple Threat main event, but this angle on the go home show definitely would have sold me on it if I had been on the fence. 

Verdict- Won't make my list due to the weak finish, but what came before was good, and what came after was great.

RVD (c) vs. Rock- 10/25/01- Hardcore Title Match- Both men are coming off championship match losses at No Mercy. I wasn't really feeling this one. They did some walk & brawl. RVD spent some time rearranging furniture when they made their way back to ringside. It turned into a cavalcade of interference with Shane, Vince, Test(?!), Jericho, and Booker all doing run ins. Booker's interference proves decisive when RVD capitalizes on it with an inside cradle for the win.

Verdict- Nothing special. Off the list. Guessing this got the real time markout bonus where I was all "OMG! RVD just pinned The Rock! Yay!" 

One more before I go to sleep...

Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio- 8/26/04- For years I got this one mixed up with the January 2003 match Pete watched the other day. Fwiw that January '03 match finished way up at #9 or #10 on my 2008 list.

This was sort of a low key Angle/Rey match. Angle fails to hit the Angle Slam, with both attempts being countered, and does not even attempt a single Ankle Lock. It followed their usual formula with Kurt controlling most of the way while Rey's flurries came largely off speed-based counters. Highlights include Rey taking a full rotation German Suplex and hitting a split legged moonsault. The 619 attempts were pretty contrived, with Angle unrealistically finding his head between the ropes on back to back occasions. Up to now most of the Rey matches I had been watching actually had pretty good 619 set ups. Finish was their take on Bret/Owen at Wrestlemania X with Angle in the Owen role. 

Verdict- Borderline Honorable Mention status

Here’s a really useful thread on Reddit.

www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/9nkov0/the_essential_smackdown_collection_the_best_and/

I just rewatched the Benoit/Lesnar match from Dec. ‘03 for this, and man it was so good and I hate what happened with Benoit so much, because I think it was this match that made him my favourite wrestler. Brock was so good as this super cocky heel champion, embarrassed by tapping out at survivor series, and determined to avenge that. So he comes out all guns blazing but he’s ill-disciplined and Benoit gets the upper hand. Benoit shows that he has more guts than anyone else in the business and won’t give up, keeps fighting, and even has Brock beat. The desperate champion has to cheat, but Benoit still won’t give up and passes out. A really fun match with a very clear story and tells it without needing to be ‘epic.’ Watching this really made me miss what wrestling can be when done right.

I had a similar reaction to it as well PB. I didn't realise how influential it was on me, but it originated the trope of a guy coming up with a new move to put away his opponent. It's something I always wanted Dolph Ziggler to do and it's something Daniel Bryan came up with which made his match with Cena one of my all-time favourites.

Brock at this point really was in peak form and while SmackDown was down three of it's biggest stars in The Undertaker, Kurt Angle and Edge they didn't seem to be in any big trouble because they did such a good job of building these Lesnar matches up. Brock was at the top of his game here and it's such a shame his run got cuut short because he was having as good a match as you'll ever see in a Pro Wrestling ring. Unfortunately after Angle, Benoit and Rey the last bout you get of that calibre is Eddie. I remember actively enjoying Lesnar as much as I'd enjoyed anyone to feeling he may have been the biggest disappointment in Pro Wrestling history. From the Holly match, to the Goldberg build-up and then the match itself where he just dogs it.

Had a couple of days off from the project after Queensland's historic win in the State of Origin. Just picked up from the post-Vengeance show and so far the Rey Mysterio debut was a lot more competitive than I remembered. I'm not sure if Chavo did much before this, but it felt as much a showcase of Chavo as it did of Rey. It also has a nice Code Red into a Gory Bomb counter! I caught the Rock/Edge vs. Benoit/Guerrero match Bake talked up early. Just a really solid tag team match with the heels bumping their asses off to make Rock and Edge look great and really shine up their comeback segments. Good booking as well with the heels going over on debut and Benoit forcing The Rock to tap. Some will say The Rock was distracted by Brock, but Brock was merely down there giving Benoit pointers on how to tighten that Crossface up. It would come back to haunt him at Survivor Series.

The last match I caught was the oft-forgotten Kurt Angle vs. John Cena rematch. I think the original stands out more because of the definitive finish, but this was a more traditional face/heel match with Cena looking for less fluke roll-ups and working more power spots. It's still proto-Cena where he's hitting flying forearms, Rock-style kick into the guts DDTs and dropkicks but his power stuff still looks impressive. Next on the agenda is Hogan/Brock which I've never seen before but could be a fixture on my list.

How's everyone else going with their lists? Have you found yourselves identifying certain preferences yet?

I'm with you guys on Brock/Benoit. Spoiler Alert: It was my #1 last time I did this.

I'm still watching at least one SD match per day. Started doing a writeup the other night but my heart just wasn't into it. Let's see...

HHH vs. Tazz- 4/20/00- A little backstory is required here...

HHH is in the midst of his GOAT heel title reign which was actually my #1 when we did a Best Championship Reigns countdown a few years back. This was part of a wild week in wrestling which saw WWF contracted Taz defeat WCW contracted Mike Awesome to win the ECW Championship on the 13th. So here we have WWF Champ vs. ECW Champ, though neither title is on the line.

First half of 2000 HHH was the guy I loved to hate while grudgingly admitting he was the best in the business. Taz had been one of my favorite wrestlers for nearly 3 years. Though his WWF run was off to a bumpy start, I still hadn't given up hope (that would come 11 days later when I was in the building to see Taz job clean to a Benoit suplex in under 2 minutes) and thought his recent ECW Title win might just be the catalyst to turn around his hitherto disappointing WWF run. 

So this match had me hanging on the edge of my seat with total investment in real time. While there is definitely something to be said for that, this battle between WWF Champion and ECW Champion doesn't really hold up. Take away the high stakes and it's just your run of the mill 6 minute Smackdown match. It wasn't even laid out particularly well. Taz came off as a chump to be honest.

My favorite part of the match was HHH fighting off two of Taz's more dangerous suplexes (head and arm & t-bone). It's obviously because big time superstar HHH ain't getting dropped on his head. But I am so accustomed to ECW Taz firing off suplexes at will that HHH fighting them off stands out as something different. Taz did hit a Belly to Back and got a nearfall off a nice Northern Lights.

Finish comes when Dreamer interferes on Tazz's behalf after HHH had already hit the Pedigree. HHH dodges Dreamer's chair shot, causing Tommy to instead strike Taz with an errant blow. HHH then dispatches Dreamer with a Pedigree (which Dreamer takes like a boss) and pins Tazz to unofficially unify all 3 major championships (having pinned "WCW Champion" Benoit in February). This was a huge deal to 2000 Baker. Fwiw this match also caused Nobi to quit watching WWE for over a decade. Additionally, it set up Taz/Dreamer for the ECW Championship that Saturday at the ECW Arena.

Verdict- Honorable Mention last time. Off the list this time.
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AJ Styles (c) vs. Daniel Bryan- 11/13/18- WWE Championship Match

The 2010s are bound to be woefully underrepresented on my list. Only 2-4 matches were even under consideration. So I figured I might as well check out some 2010s wrestling for diversity sake.

Fun Fact: I was in attendance for the first ever AJ/Bryan match way back in November 2002. It took place in front of a few hundred people in a Philadelphia rec center. Yet here they are 16 years later wrestling for the WWE Championship. That's pretty cool. 

This is a face vs. face match. Good grief! Daniel Bryan is already looking rough. He has a cut on his nose and bruises all over his arm. Was he in a TLC match or something along those lines earlier that week on Raw?

AJ scores early with a nasty attack on Bryan's leg. Bryan will later come back with a longer, even nastier attack on AJ's arm. I was hoping we'd get a "work the body part" match, or even dueling body part work, but neither man really goes whole hog on dissecting the other man's limb, though it does linger in the background, most notably with Bryan limping a time or two. It also plays into the big submission holds of both men, with Styles once locking in his Calf Crusher, and Bryan once trapping AJ in his Yes Lock. Both men escape the submissions by reaching the ropes. Some of Bryan's facial expressions are eerily similar to Mick Foley's.

Finish comes when the dastardly Daniel hits a low blow (BOO!) followed by a running knee for the win. Have to admit I was not expecting to see a title change here. Post-match sees Bryan solidify his heel turn by attacking AJ. 

Verdict- A Contender 
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Nov 22, 2020 3:02:16 GMT Big Pete said:

How's everyone else going with their lists? Have you found yourselves identifying certain preferences yet?

After watching Angle/RVD and Styles/Bryan I am ready to wildly overrate any match featuring somebody working over a body part or cut which is then sold accordingly. I'm thinking it will be tough for a "new" match to crack my Top 5, but a match featuring five minute body part or cut work would have a good shot at being my #6 right now.

Did Ric Flair ever work Smackdown? I seem to recall him having an SD match with Finlay at some point. Or perhaps it's time to revisit Chavo Guerrero right before Los Guerreros became a thing? I remember Chavito doing a "work the body part" gimmick during that period. It was one of those weirdly good stretches. Not unlike those few weeks in 2002 when Test went on a weird hot streak...
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Test vs. Tajiri- 3/21/02

Remember this being the standout match from Test's mini hot streak. And I can see why! This was like a big vs. little version of those fun Rey/Akio matches I watched a few days back. They crammed a lot of action into 4 minutes. Tajiri's educated feet were on point and we got two nice nearfalls before a wicked Test big boot ended Tajiri's night.

Verdict- Too short to be a serious contender, but this is the sort of fun, breezy match that will enhance any wrestling show. 

Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Rey Mysterio- 3/18/04- WWE Championship Match

*sigh* This was close to the match I wanted at this particular moment in time. Eddie spent the bulk of the bout targeting Rey's arm over like a champ. Yay! But Rey didn't even bother paying lip service to the arm work once he went back on offense. Boo! So close, yet so far away.

Another thing that bothered me was Rey being in control before the commercial break, having just hit a big asai moonsault to the floor. Yet we come back from break with Eddie in control, hitting a big superplex. I recall Smackdown being pretty good at filling in the gaps via replay, but not this time. How did Eddie take over? I suppose we will never know. 

Rey regains control after the arm work sequence with a flubbed version of their famous Halloween Havoc '97 Moonsault DDT. They eventually have their usual hot finishing stretch with big moves hit, and big moves missed, before Eddie retains via la magistral cradle. 

Also, this match didn't bear all that much resemblance to the Bret/Kid bout I compared it to earlier. I don't know where I come up with some of this nonsense.

This sounds like a negative review, but that really isn't my intent. It was a decent enough tv main event. ***ish. Highlights include Eddie doing this awesome arm trap torture rack thingy that's hard to properly describe, and Rey channeling his inner Hitman by taking a few Bret-style chest bumps into the turnbuckle.

Verdict- Likely out of the Honorable Mention/Top 50 zone.

Which brings me to something I wanted to discuss earlier. Rating matches is silly. I mean, I still do it because I'm a wrestling fan, and that's what we do. But I think the traditional, Meltzerian match rating system needs to be scrapped. Does a near-flawless 3-6 match (like Tajiri/Test or Rey/Akio) have more value than a flawed 15 minute match? The older I get, the more I lean towards answering that question with an emphatic "yes." 

As soon as we hit a 6 star match we should've collectively scrapped the system.

So what's the deadline?

Really should get something in, but I'm more into just seeing the results if anything.

I have vague memories of Val and Austin, dunno if they're justified.

Smackdown's answer to IYH2?

Nov 23, 2020 22:56:49 GMT @ness said:

So what's the deadline?

I'll leave that up to you guys. I'm in no hurry. Right now I'm just happy watching a Smackdown match or two a day. Also, I agree with you on coffee. 
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With Undertaker retiring I figured it was only fitting that I watch a Taker match tonight. I don't want to turn this into a total Taker tribute, but I gotta get some of my stuff in real quick...

I think it sucks that he retired in an empty arena during the stupid COVID era. If anybody deserved to go out in front of 80,000 people, it's Taker.

Truth is even I haven't cared about Taker since Brock ended The Streak. But he was still perhaps the last link to the wrestling I grew up loving. For two decades, Taker was the one constant in my fandom (even outlasting Flair!)... 

A while back I did a silly project where I ranked my Top 10-25 Favorite Wrestlers for every year I was a wrestling fan. Taker finished in the Top 15 every single year from 90-08 other than 2001 when I thought he was old, slow, and past it. I clearly knew nothing. Many of those years he was in my Top 10, or even Top 5. That's a remarkable level of consistency given my fickle nature throughout the 90s when I was quick to turn on a wrestler for any reason. An ill conceived turn....one bad angle....BAM! Off the list! But not Taker. He just kept going and going, providing markout moment after markout moment. It's even more remarkable given that Taker was usually a babyface while I was predominately a heel fan up to the late 90s. Taker was often my favorite good guy in wrestling. Anyway, I had Taker at #4 when we did our Favorite Wrestler Countdown a while back, and wrestling won't be the same without him. 
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Undertaker's 2002 Undisputed Title run is underrated. This was early days of the brand split. Taker worked both shows as champ and both Raw & Smackdown largely revolved around wrestlers jockeying for position just to challenge Taker for the title. I wish they had stuck with this concept longer rather than going with the stupid two titles thing. It was almost a throwback to the territory days where everyone was vying for a shot at the touring NWA Champ. 

The match I am about to cover aired 3 days after the famous Taker/J. Hardy Ladder Match and a few weeks before the famous Taker/Rock/Angle 3 Way. So Taker was also delivering in the ring during this reign. 

Undertaker (c) vs. Kurt Angle- 7/4/02- Undisputed WWF Championship Match

This was the same show with the Edge & Hogan vs. Billy & Chuck title change I reviewed earlier. Taker & Angle always matched up well. They had 4 or 5 singles matches I enjoyed. For reasons unclear to me, this one has rather slipped through cracks to become one of their lesser known bouts. 

This made my Top 25 last time. It's likely to fall a bit this time. Thing is, I do believe wrestling is meant to be watched in the moment rather than years later. Watching it years later and knowing the outcome kills the drama. This had me hanging on the edge of my seat in real time. It isn't quite the same when you know what's going to happen. 

Taker uses his size and soupbones(!!!) to dominate early. Angle reverts back to Survivor Series 2000 with a little bit of cowardly Kurt. Angle soon gets back into it with quickness, suplexes, and wrestling. Things really pick up when Angle counters the Tombstone with an Ankle Lock. Taker survives two Ankle Locks and an Angle Slam. He actually sells the leg! Most notably when he is slow to cover after hitting a chokeslam. 

We get a memorable finish where Angle counters the Last Ride with a Triangle Choke. This was the first time I ever even heard of a Triangle Choke and I was....confused, but intrigued. Angle's shoulders are on the mat. Taker is still trapped in the Triangle. Angle is pinned at the exact moment Taker taps. Confusion reigns supreme...

We come back from the commercial break with 3 referees arguing. One goes for Taker. Another sides with Angle. Official official for the match, Mike Chioda, rules it a draw. Loud "BULLSHIT" chant from the crowd. This sets up the Vengeance 3 Way with The Rock.

JBL (c) vs. Chris Benoit- 4/14/06- US Title Cage Match

My favorite match yet in this project and it's not even close.

This one had everything I like in my pro wrestling. Pre-match sports entertainment sold beautifully by the Wrestling God.  JBL was his usual all time great heel self, doing half a dozen awesome heel things a lesser wrestler would never even think about. Benoit brought the physicality. Both guys took multiple big bumps off the top rope, with the highlight being a top rope German from Benoit. We got a genuinely dramatic finish with some clever nearfalls that had me on the edge of my seat due to forgetting who won this match. I was about 70% sure JBL prevailed, but a Benoit win would not have shocked me at all. Neither guy even dipped all that deep into their arsenal of moves, leaving much on the table for a potential rematch. A neat JBL heel trick > all the flips in the world.

We even got some fun pro-JBL signs like "Justice Bravery Loyalty" and some good natured JBL > Brett Favre stuff from the Green Bay crowd at a time when Favre was keeping the Packer faithful in suspense over his potential retirement.

Verdict ****+. Will certainly ascend from Honorable Mention status into the top tier.
Warning: This project could easily turn into a JBL lovefest over the next few days. I had him down as my 7th favorite wrestler of all time when we did that countdown. Well, don't be too surprised if I also have him at #7 if we ever do a Greatest Wrestler Countdown. What a getter of professional wrestling that man was.

Nice find, I'm keen to add some JBL to my list just to represent all the different eras. Was the bullrope match between him and Tista any good?

Also any recommendations for Paul London and Brian Kendrick? They didn't have the best repertoire of matches despite being over with the internet crowd. They were two of my favourites of that 2005-07 era, how were their bouts against the Blue Bloods and MNM? Could Deuce and Domino possibly be their best encounter? You don't even have to give me half an excuse to get Deuce and Domino on one of my SD list. They're already leading the SmackDown entrance list and it's not even close.

Not a recommendation, but I did catch a surprisingly fun Billy Kidman vs. Kurt Angle match from the 22/8/02 edition of SD. It's the go-home show for SummerSlam, so Kurt is distracted by Mysterio through out and Kidman is constantly coming up with Mysterio like moves. A couple of highlights include Kidman's hurracarana's where he really executes the whip nicely. One of them sends Kurt out of the ring and Kidman follows up with a huge body-splash off the top to Angle who's on the floor. Later on Kurt catches Kidman going for a Shooting Star and hits a sweet over-head suplex that just about sends Kidman to the other side of the ring. It was a really well thought appetizer with Kidman finding counters for Kurt's signature offence, Kurt getting angry and Rey constantly distracting Kurt. Before the match, Rey makes an entrance just to stare Angle down. On the outside, Kurt gets stuck into a plant fan for wearing a Rey mask. Then off an accidental ref bump, Rey comes in with his seated plancha, and Kurt gives chase getting himself counted out. Kind of feel like Kidman's only remembered for destroying Chavo's face, but he had some decent moments in 2002-03. The Vengeance 2003 tag comes straight to mind.