Jan 10, 2021 15:17:06 GMT PB said:

If you’re finding Wrestlemania XX too long you’re never going to finish this when you get to the 30s.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll quit at 29. If I make it that far. LOL

Instead of trying to backtrack entirely, WWE should've just gone all in on a new Ghostrider hybrid of the Undertaker character. He could've just coasted his motorcycle down to the ring in neutral to ensure his entrances take just as long.

Chicken shit coward unmasked monster heel Kane is such an interesting spin on his character.

Jan 10, 2021 15:18:56 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 10, 2021 15:17:06 GMT PB said:

If you’re finding Wrestlemania XX too long you’re never going to finish this when you get to the 30s.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll quit at 29. If I make it that far. LOL

No. At least do 30 if you can so you can mark out for BROCK ENDING THE STREAK!

And yeah Taker having short hair was a big wet turd when he took the hat off.

Jan 10, 2021 15:22:25 GMT 🤯 said:

Instead of trying to backtrack entirely, WWE should've just gone all in on a new Ghostrider hybrid of the Undertaker character. He could've just coasted his motorcycle down to the ring in neutral to ensure his entrances take just as long.

Ya know I bet IRL Taker doesn't even like riding. I bet the whole riding to the ring was a rib on him taking forever on his entrance.

Jan 10, 2021 15:10:00 GMT 🤯 said:

Kurt's best Mania matches up to this point...

1.) WM17: vs. Benoit
2.) WM20: vs. Eddie
3.) WM18: vs. Kane
4.) WM19: vs. Brock
5.) WM16: vs. Benoit vs. Jericho

Having the Kane match ranked third would get torn apart almost everywhere in the smark community. I don't agree with it fully (I'm fairly certain I'd have the Brock match above), but I can get behind it being fourth, as I remember it being pretty damn solid until the botched finish (possibly even a low-key shout for best non-gimmick Kane singles match, which is not saying much at all I know) and I remember thinking Angle/Benoit/Jericho was mediocre at best last time I watched.

Jan 10, 2021 15:17:06 GMT PB said:

If you’re finding Wrestlemania XX too long you’re never going to finish this when you get to the 30s.

This should've been the warning against them doing long shows. Well, certainly long shows that haven't been booked all that well. The crowd would always lull no matter, but they had the potential to put together a card that would've worked far better.

Jan 10, 2021 0:43:49 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 10, 2021 0:31:33 GMT @ness said:

One thing I always hated was Kurt doing his entrance while the shaving was still going on.

Also has a heel ever lost and just got in the chair Thanos style or do they always flee?

Storyline idea. The heel finally escapes in the fleeing and the babyface spends months chasing them just to get the chance to earn his reward. Again.

But then it's double or nothing and he loses.

Does he run himself and become a hyprcrit?

And then they understand each other and form a tag team?

TO THE FED THREAD~

Isn't what your describing EXACTLY how Da Baldies came to be in ECW?

Kilgore , fact check me on that?

Thankfully, I have no recollection of the formation of Da Baldies. I've since assumed it was just several already bald jabronies that were like, "I think we have something here."

XX was such a rollercoaster of a show to experience in real-time. Early on the fans were impressed because they got a really well worked undercard match between Jericho/Christian with a fantastic plot development that for whatever reason nobody saw coming. It was followed by the first 'main event' of the evening which everybody lost themselves in until the finish snapped them into reality. It was like the anti-climax reminded them that it was a serious blood feud between Randy-Foley and that all got pushed aside because of The Rock and Flair having an enjoyable interaction.

Then the show fell off a cliff hard. We're talking borderline Heroes of Wrestling level of reception book-ended by two 'piss-break' diva matches. It was wild following the disappointment of the Cruiserweight Open (The Ultimo botches, Fat Kidman, the lame finish) into the insanity of Goldberg/Brock. I don't think there's ever been a longer 3 minutes in Pro Wrestling. That first lock-up felt like an eternity and it was just pages and pages of fans being in disbelief.

Eddie/Angle was the first match that saved the show. From memory it was like a NJPW match where fans didn't realise they were watching a good match until the finishing stretch and they obviously loved the shoe-lace shtick.

The fans were back, they loved the Kane entrance, they loved the druids, they loved the 'ohhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss' and they HATED Soccer Mom Taker. I don't think I've seen a wrestler received like that since poo-brown pants Michaels at the 2002 Survivor Series. Suddenly the show was terrible again.

The main event saved the show and sent everyone home happy. There were a few contrarion talking points afterwards trying to remind everyone about the general reception before the main, but the fans loved Benoit tapping out HHH and of course the post-match with Eddie. A lot of fans were quick to call it one of the best segments they'd ever seen in Pro Wrestling or the best match they'd ever seen.

The match with Kurt was when I was finally all in with Eddy. Before then I kinda hated the dude, even as a babyface. The Chyna stuff was good TV, but never really appreciated him until this.

And I really wasn't sure if Benoit was going over either. Like I was really buying into the idea they'll do a WM2000 and have the big moment be in Canada at Backlash. Don't remember the booking, but still surprised we didn't get a Shawn match. Or maybe that's why the triple threat happened again because I recall a TV title defense that the nose returned because of course.

Jan 4, 2021 23:42:03 GMT Baker said:

Jan 4, 2021 22:45:01 GMT @ness said:

I watched WM20 dozens of times. Recorded it on VHS... yes even then.

Same here. Only I'm not sure I ever watched the full show more than once. That show had A LOT of pointless filler. Though I did watch the five big matches a couple of times.

Turns out I actually undersold this show. There were 7 matches I found some value in...

1. Triple Threat Main Event- GOAT Triple Threat. Had it somewhere between 5-7 on my Best WWE Matches of the 2000s list.
2. Eddie vs. Kurt- Good match. Great finish. Had it somewhere around #30 on the aforementioned list.
3. Evolution vs. Rock & Sock- Tons of fun. Great example of a popcorn match. Think I had it in the 80s or 90s on that Best of 2000s WWE list.
4. Christian vs. Jericho- Excellent midcard fare which also featured a memorable angle.
5. Undertaker vs. Kane- Match sucked but the pre-match hoopla was worth rewatching. Taker's return was also a major draw for me in real time.
6. Goldberg vs. Brock- Probably my favorite objectively bad match because I couldn't stand either guy and got a kick out of the crowd rejecting them.
7. Cena vs. Show- Solid opener that gave the rub to a young up and comer.

-This is why I rate WM 20 highly despite the rest of it being skippable filler that I probably only watched the one time. Agree with 🤯 that we should have got APA/Team Angle in a Brawler vs. Wrestler deal. Was also hoping for that match when I went to No Mercy 2003. Instead I got APA/Bashams. What a letdown.

Jan 8, 2021 22:46:01 GMT @ness said:

Never understood why the smaller workrate guys never got over with the peeps.

WWE fans were never trained to think they were important. Even when WCW instituted their famed Cruiserweight division in 1996 I viewed it as strictly a novelty act.... little more than an updated version of midget wrestling (or women's wrestling) for the mid 90s. And I liked the Cruiserweights! Just didn't see them as something that mattered in the grand scheme of things.

Jan 10, 2021 0:31:33 GMT @ness said:

Also has a heel ever lost and just got in the chair Thanos style or do they always flee?

Just watched a Dump Matsumoto vs. Chigusa Nagayo match where the heel Dump mostly took it like a man....err...woman. She beat some people up before and after the cutting, but did voluntarily plop down in the chair to have her rainbow mohawk sheared.

Jan 10, 2021 0:43:49 GMT 🤯 said:

Jan 10, 2021 0:31:33 GMT @ness said:

Storyline idea. The heel finally escapes in the fleeing and the babyface spends months chasing them just to get the chance to earn his reward. Again.

But then it's double or nothing and he loses.

Does he run himself and become a hyprcrit?

And then they understand each other and form a tag team?

TO THE FED THREAD~

Isn't what your describing EXACTLY how Da Baldies came to be in ECW?

Kilgore , fact check me on that?

I remember it the same way as Kilgore.  Da Baldies were just a couple of lower card jabronies with nothing going on. Chances are Heyman took a look at them in the locker room one day and was like "Hmm...All these filler heels have shaved heads. I will put them in a stable called Da Baldies! A genius booker am I." 

Jan 11, 2021 20:28:04 GMT @ness said:

The match with Kurt was when I was finally all in with Eddy. Before then I kinda hated the dude, even as a babyface. The Chyna stuff was good TV, but never really appreciated him until this.

Similar story here. I had been aware of Eddie since late 95 but didn't come around on him until the summer of 2002. Hated the Chyna stuff in particular. 

Jan 10, 2021 15:10:00 GMT 🤯 said:

3.) WM18: vs. Kane

Angle & Kane had a surprisingly great segment on Smackdown leading up to WM 18. I'm not even sure it was an official match. May have just a been an angle or a brawl. I just remember thinking it was shockingly good for a thing involving Kane.

For clarification, my ranking of Kurt/Kane and Kurt/Brock is calibrated based on expectations going in. Kurt/Kane far exceeded expectations whereas IMO Kurt/Brock, even without the SSP, didn't live up to my admittedly unreal expectations.

Honestly those 7 matches without the useless stuff makes it seem a lot better.

It's still one of my top Manias (due to rewatch and seeing it live) regardless of being sluggish at times.

OK, let's finish this bitch.

Rewatching/finishing Undertaker/Kane II (-_-) real quick...

That moment when HHH prevents Shawn from tapping by grabbing his arm... this is one of the most underrated moments in wrestling. Like I'd love to see more ingenious stuff like this in my matches.

Only made it to the finish of TakerKane: The Never-Ending Saga.

OK, let's try to finish this...

Here comes now-Residing-in-Atlanta Chris Benoit to fulfill his destiny with the wrong title.

HHH's white boots from WMXX need combined with his lavender trunks from WMXIX for a GOAT ring gear combo.

HHH already out of the ring.

Gonna keep track of everytime someone takes a powder to make it a singles match.

And HHH back in now...

Now Benoit to the outside after a fakeout from HBK.

HHH, looking particularly portly here, keeps Benoit out and now goes out to essentially leave Shawn the odd man out.

I did like that baseball slide moonsault combo though.

Benoit still outside. Back to a HHH/HBK singles match inside the ring...

Until Benoit reenters with a vengeance, and essentially pitches HBK out through the ring post.

Now we've gotten every singles combo.

Dug HHH whipping Shawn injured shoulder-first into tree of woe Benoit's gut.

Kip up or nip up?

There goes HBK again. Resuming our Benoit/HHH singles session...

Until HBK sprints back in to nut Benoit.

But then HHH DDTs HBK right back out.

Despite how heavy he seems here, HHH is still solid in the ring and has great chemistry with Benoit. They always have had great matches, dating back to 2000. In a different universe where the storyline switchup didn't feel so abrupt, I have way less of a problem with HHH/Benoit or even HHH/Benoit/HBK. But with the buildup to Brock/Lesnar II...

Shit, while posting that I missed why Benoit took a powder to make it HHH vs. HBK v24036

Benoit and HBK have now taken turns saving HHH from the other's finish.

HHH remains on the outside, so it's back to Benoit/Shawn.

Jesus, how did Shawn get so MUCH color so FAST!?!?

If Shawn was ready to submit, why does his ability to tap matter? He can still verbally submit like they used to do before tapouts, right?

Inside becomes the outside and vice versa as we get a HHH/Benoit continuation on the floor while Shawn bleeds out in the ring.