Jan 5, 2021 15:59:35 GMT PB said:

I still preferred Ospreay/Okada, but White/Ibushi was very good. I could have done with a little less Gedo but it did help build the tension. Just an incredible effort from Ibushi to put those two performances on over two nights - he must be so exhausted right now. Hopefully we at least get Kenny and Ibushi teasing a match even though it’s very unlikely to actually happen. It was so good because there was a real chance that Jay White would win, so you really bought into a lot of the near-falls. Really good match.

I thought White was going over as well. I accidentally logged onto twitter without considering the time and from the brief glimpse it appeared that they had put the title on White. I was glad to be wrong, although I believe White is the better performer. I just think after last year and the way Ibushi was treated it would be the ultimate Goto style choke if he failed on this occassion.

It does make the tweet I stumble across more interesting. I read it as NJPW reacting to a potential raid from NXT, instead of it being a clear sign that NXT were staging another coup. Personally I'd be sad to see White go, I think he's a much better fit in NJPW where as the WWE are struggling to find their way in a post-Covid wrestling scene.

I skipped to the finishing sequence since it's late. In a lot of ways it was the epic NJPW finish you'd expect, but I thought White added some nice wrinkles by playing possum, that shoulder shrug kick-out and him desperately seeking Gedo's council. The only other wrestler who can pull that last bit off well is Brock. I couldn't help but remember back to four years ago where a fresh faced Jay White stepped toe to toe with Hiroshi Tanahashi dressed up in a trench coat that looked too big on him and he looked so uncomfortable on the grand stage. His development over the years has been astounding and if this was his last rodeo, what a note to go out on.

Speaking of, I'd love to go back and watch the 2015 WrestleKingdom again. I feel Nakamura/Ibushi was the match that broke a lot of western fans into NJPW and it's no surprise both wound up working for the WWE at some point.

Jan 5, 2021 16:22:59 GMT Big Pete said:

Jan 5, 2021 15:59:35 GMT PB said:

I still preferred Ospreay/Okada, but White/Ibushi was very good. I could have done with a little less Gedo but it did help build the tension. Just an incredible effort from Ibushi to put those two performances on over two nights - he must be so exhausted right now. Hopefully we at least get Kenny and Ibushi teasing a match even though it’s very unlikely to actually happen. It was so good because there was a real chance that Jay White would win, so you really bought into a lot of the near-falls. Really good match.

I thought White was going over as well. I accidentally logged onto twitter without considering the time and from the brief glimpse it appeared that they had put the title on White. I was glad to be wrong, although I believe White is the better performer. I just think after last year and the way Ibushi was treated it would be the ultimate Goto style choke if he failed on this occassion.

It does make the tweet I stumble across more interesting. I read it as NJPW reacting to a potential raid from NXT, instead of it being a clear sign that NXT were staging another coup. Personally I'd be sad to see White go, I think he's a much better fit in NJPW where as the WWE are struggling to find their way in a post-Covid wrestling scene.

I skipped to the finishing sequence since it's late. In a lot of ways it was the epic NJPW finish you'd expect, but I thought White added some nice wrinkles by playing possum, that shoulder shrug kick-out and him desperately seeking Gedo's council. The only other wrestler who can pull that last bit off well is Brock. I couldn't help but remember back to four years ago where a fresh faced Jay White stepped toe to toe with Hiroshi Tanahashi dressed up in a trench coat that looked too big on him and he looked so uncomfortable on the grand stage. His development over the years has been astounding and if this was his last rodeo, what a note to go out on.

Speaking of, I'd love to go back and watch the 2015 WrestleKingdom again. I feel Nakamura/Ibushi was the match that broke a lot of western fans into NJPW and it's no surprise both wound up working for the WWE at some point.

Yeah I’ve been tuned out of New Japan for a year of two, so haven’t really send Jay White ‘since he got good’ and the improvement here was considerable. The character work was fantastic and I was hugely impressed by how hard he worked to get the crowd into the match even though they weren’t allowed to chant/cheer. Normally getting them to clap is a bit bat face 101, but he did it to wind them up, and even established the rhythmic clapping to replace chanting I-BUSH-I which worked really well. I could do without so many shenanigans but they did add to the drama of the match. I don’t really see why he would rush to NXT. He’s young enough and it’s crowded enough there that it would probably be quite a risky move and I’d prefer him to say in New Japan as well.

From what I've seen of Jay White, I couldn't think of anyone more suited to their current promotion in the current climate.

He's far too big of a deal for Impact. NXT without the magic of the big takeover crowds, he'll be wasted - imagine Nakamura debuting with no crowds after a career in Japan.

And if he went to WWE's main roster straight away, I could see an Ambrose/Moxley situation - a personality completely at at odds with the cheesy WWE styling.

And AEW. Similarly to WWE. Here's a personality that at odds with AEW's profile if you will, and you want him shilling video games and comic books? I'm surprised Mox has stuck around.

Jan 4, 2021 19:40:53 GMT PB said:

Emperor, stop posting in Off-Topic and Entertainment and tell us what you thought?

Sorry, I'm a slowpoke. Just finished the first show. Scrolled through the thread at a snail's pace to avoid Night 2 spoilers.

Glad people were watching along - normally for big NJPW shows it feels like I invited everyone to the party and nobody showed up :lol:

As a general remark, I'm surprised by how slowly paced all the matches were. I'm used to NJPW being more of a go-go-go promotion. Being accustomed to that, it was a little difficult to get into these matches, but there was some great wrestling and storytelling present.

Takahashi vs Phantasmo was a great opener. I know it's his shtick but Phantasmo went OTT with the heel showboating. Takahashi wrestled a bit strangely, oversold everything and wrestled half speed. Still, despite those complaints, it was a very entertaining match with a great finish. Phantasmo has the best high flying offense in the business right now. I can see why he has to triple down on his dickishness because his dives and balancing acts are super babyface.

Yeah, the tag title match happened. It wasn't awful. A passable match. Kinda knew GoD would win. Zack and Taichi are basically a thrown together team who had a surprising amount of chemistry. Best thing to happen to the tag division in a long time. Still, both guys are better off in the singles division, especially ZSJ. He's not the same wrestler when he's wrestling tags all the time. I can go back to ignoring the tag division again.

KENTA vs Kojima - Pretty good. I'd say they delivered on par given they are two wrestlers past their prime. But they both still know how to work. Always nice to see KENTA hit the Go 2 Sleep since it's so rare these days.

Tanahashi vs Great O Khan. Sure, a poor match by Tanahashi standards, but you gotta remember this is Great O Khan's first really big singles match. He's a rookie and I think he did well on the big stage. His gimmick is a little goofy but he has a good look, good presence and good offense. Love the emphasis he has on slamming Tanahashi on his face/chest. So many moves are head drops, drivers, or slams these days. Just wish he would ditch the Iron Claw. Hate any version of that move. Thought they worked a nice, albeit fairly basic, match. Khan still needs to find his niche as a monster. At the moment he's bumping and selling too much. It's hard to find that balance, and I appreciate he also had to make the legend Tanahashi look good who isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut. I think he has potential. Couple more years under his belt and he will be a fine monster heel.

Okada vs Ospreay. Unsurprisingly match of the night. Ospreay's really changed up his game as a heel. No high flying offense whatshoever. Has that vicious heel edge. Slow, methodical match but with great storytelling. Don't think it will rank in both wrestler's top 10 matches, but still great. Although it was fairly dramatic, there was never a moment where I thought Ospreay was even close to winning which was a weakness. Lovely touch hitting the Rainmaker on Okada, prompting Okada to end the match by bringing his real finisher back. The match served well as Okada's return to form. He and Ibushi will be the faces of 2021.

Naito vs Ibushi. The match didn't work at all for me. It's cool that they tried something different instead of going full throttle and killing themselves like they do in previous matches, but neither man can really do the long slow burn match like Okada and Tanahashi. They were trading moves meaninglessly. None of the moves felt like they mattered.

I didn't watch all the matches, but I watched both of Hiromu's matches, Okada/Ospreay, SANADA/EVIL, Shingo/Cobb and both main events...planned on watching KENTA's match but I honestly don't care all that much and I already know the results.

Not much to add that hasn't been said. Okada/Ospreay was my favourite from the weekend, followed by Hiromu/Ishimori, then Ibushi/White & Ibushi Naito pretty much tie for 3rd. Shingo/Cobb was better than I expected but aside from a couple big spots from Cobb, Shingo carried him super hard. Cobb looked fine, not really knocking him, but the difference in talent is quite obvious.

I'm glad Ibushi is getting a run, but the news today kind of irked me. Ibushi has called for the Heavyweight and IC titles to be merged. I'm not a fan of the idea. Maybe NJPW has one too many mid-card titles, but it doesn't really feel like it, and I'd miss the IC title a lot.

I mean if they keep having someone hold both they might as well.

They'd be better off ditching the white boy title, the US belt and unifying it with the IC.

If it is a tiered system when you get a higher ranking title you should vacate the lesser ranking title.

If the titles are consider unique and aren't really on the same progression track then the champion should either vacate one or defend them separate. The next challenger shouldn't automatically get a shot at two titles just because the current champion has two. And if you want to hold two titles you should be forced to split your focus between two different challengers and defend them in two separate matches.

They had the perfect opportunity to split the titles this past weekend. Naito should have wrestled both nights, defended the IC title on Night 1 against whoever, then the Heavyweight title on Night 2. Or if you don't want Naito eating a loss both nights, have him vacate the IC title and hold a mini tournament to crown a new winner on Night 1 or 2.

I never understood why Naito held the IC title. I get wanting to become the first ever dual champion, but it wasn't that long ago that he completely disrespected the IC title because he felt it was beneath him. They had the perfect call back to vacate the title. He should have looked at both titles after winning them, tossed the IC title aside, and went on about his business.

But Gedo has never been that smart of a booker so it's probably a bit too much to expect them to come up with something so obvious.

Naito holding the IC seemed weird. I also hate when people book the double champ and refused to have them lose one of the titles. It is just good booking, as they can offer a match for the lesser title, lost it, then hold the larger belt over the person who beat them. Then down the line set up a rematch for the main title. It books itself but no one ever does it thinking it will make the champ look weak to lose a single match.

Have huge respect for Kurt Angle who was willing to drop two titles in a single match after seeing how many will not even drop the lesser title these days.

Finally caught up. Watched January 5th and New Year's Dash today. Surprisingly, nothing big happened on New Year's Dash. Ishii pinned Jay White in a tag match, but everyone just walked to the back after that.

Back to January 5th.

Junior Heavyweight tag title match was fine. Nothing spectacular but a good undercard match.

Shingo vs Cobb was phenomenal. The NEVER Openweight championship matches at the Tokyo Dome are always balls to the wall slugfests, and this was no difference. Except Cobb brings his amateur wrestling background and suplexes to the table - which is a nice novelty other the Ishii/Goto/Suzuki brand of trading forearms together. They really gelled and put on a fantastic hoss fest.

SANADA vs EVIL was everything I expected. Both wrestlers prove on the biggest stage how utterly mediocre they are.

Ishimori vs Takahashi. Liked the first half of the match, with some spectacular athletic sequences to open, and had the potential to be great. There was a sequence about halfway through the match where Ishimori utterly dominated the match. Takahashi had no offense for about five minutes. I was pretty certain Hiromu would win so I was intrigued as to how they would get there. In the end Takahashi didn't really have a long fight back from underneath. He kinda just started hitting moves, and then they went into a back and forth tradey sequence until Hiromu win. Meh.

Kota Ibushi vs Jay White. Holy shit. Fucking amazing match. I've been saying for a while that Ibushi and White had poor chemistry, and Ibushi doesn't deliver that often in big matches. They completely turned that on their heads. 48 minutes of pure drama and bliss and sorrow and heartbreak. Certainly Ibushi's best match ever, could be Jay White's as well. The match flowed from chapter to chapter like a novel, with many fascinating moments. Jay White executing the perfect counter-wrestling game. He even provoked Ibushi into godmode, literally couldn't hurt him at all, and still found a way to counter that by pretending to lay down, then hitting a low blow when Ibushi shoved the ref in anger.

However Jay White still couldn't put Ibushi away, even after hitting his finisher. Blade Runner had never been kicked out of before, so it's understandable Jay White lost his cool when he couldn't win. He became a desperate man after that. Look at how he behaves when he had Ibushi in that Inverted Figure Four Leglock. He's screaming at Ibushi to tap, but you can tell by his expression that he knows he will make the ropes eventually. He had already foreseen the inevitability of his loss. If the Blade Runner could do it, nothing will.

I'll give credit to Ibushi as well. I've generally been indifferent to the guy, but he had a very good G1 run which started to earn some respect in my eyes. But now that he put on that performance, at least I'm not shaking my head and rolling my eyes at the idea of him being the double champ. Unlike EVIL, he is a worthy champion. He has earned my respect. Going out and putting on that performance after 30+ minutes with Naito the previous night. Great stuff.

I'm glad Ibushi is moving towards merging the belts. It's the logical thing to do - the titles have never been defended individually since the double championship was formed one year ago. Naito should have done it when he became the first double champion. Unlike RT, I think NJPW has too many titles. The IC belt needs to go. The NEVER Openweight Championship is perfect as a secondary/midcard singles title. To me the IC Title didn't have its own identity besides being the inferior version of the IWGP Heavyweight Championship. Many wrestlers on the NJPW roster have no respect for it for that reason.

On the topic of Jay White. First, check out his post-Wrestle Kingdom promo. I've even timestamped it for you.



Not only does Jay White have the early MOTYC, but the Promo of the Year candidate as well. Amazing. Real heartfelt, emotional promo. It's so rare to see a top heel show vulnerability like this, and it's rare to see wrestlers actually sell a big loss, but it all felt very authentic while still being in character. As far as I know his future is not known, but I'm pretty sure he'll be staying with NJPW. Could be the start of a face turn.

Jan 5, 2021 16:29:08 GMT PB said:

Yeah I’ve been tuned out of New Japan for a year of two, so haven’t really send Jay White ‘since he got good’ and the improvement here was considerable. The character work was fantastic and I was hugely impressed by how hard he worked to get the crowd into the match even though they weren’t allowed to chant/cheer. Normally getting them to clap is a bit bat face 101, but he did it to wind them up, and even established the rhythmic clapping to replace chanting I-BUSH-I which worked really well. I could do without so many shenanigans but they did add to the drama of the match. I don’t really see why he would rush to NXT. He’s young enough and it’s crowded enough there that it would probably be quite a risky move and I’d prefer him to say in New Japan as well.

Jay White's been doing that mock-clapping shtick for a while. He did it so much during his entrance and at the start of the match that I was beginning to get annoyed, but your comment made me realise that the reason he did it so much was to establish that side of his character to the thousands of fans who have never seen Jay White before. For someone like me who saw White doing that almost every match throughout the summer, it got a bit old hat, but now I understand why he did it.

Jan 5, 2021 20:43:26 GMT NATH45 said:

From what I've seen of Jay White, I couldn't think of anyone more suited to their current promotion in the current climate.

He's far too big of a deal for Impact. NXT without the magic of the big takeover crowds, he'll be wasted - imagine Nakamura debuting with no crowds after a career in Japan.

And if he went to WWE's main roster straight away, I could see an Ambrose/Moxley situation - a personality completely at at odds with the cheesy WWE styling.

And AEW. Similarly to WWE. Here's a personality that at odds with AEW's profile if you will, and you want him shilling video games and comic books? I'm surprised Mox has stuck around.

Agreed completely. White is a product of the NJPW dojo. He fits perfectly. In WWE he'd be an AJ Styles at best. Gets the occasional high profile program/match, but as a rule he's a workhorse who's just there. Not a bad spot for AJ Styles who has a family and is getting on a bit on years. But it would be a terrible waste of Jay White who's already one of the best wrestlers in the world, who has arguably not even reached the prime of his career yet.

Recency bias setting in here, but I'm starting to feel Jay White is legimitately the best wrestler in the world right now. Especially after that promo I shared above. Always thought he was a good promo but far from great. He's proven he's a great promo now. He tried out a completely different style of promo and knocked it out of the park.

Good to get more context from the good Doctor Emperor, . I have to say, from reading other’s reactions and now yours as well, I totally understand why people preferred White/Ibushi over Okada/Ospreay. I’ve really checked out of New Japan since Naito won the belts, so I didn’t know that nobody had kicked out of the switchblade or things like that. It feels like a match really rich in storytelling details that I just wouldn’t get. For me there was just a little too much Gedo, but I haven’t been waiting months to see him get his comeuppance so maybe that’s why it didn’t work for me as much. But I really loved it, and it has me definitely keen to try and keep up more this year.

Also very glad they’re unifying the belts - just too many, and although the IO is beautiful, the US obviously feels more useful for them going forward with their US expansion.

Something I found on reddit.

Likely due to so many fewer fans attending live, New Japan World set several records this past week. The total subscribers number wasn’t released, but there were reports that the increase the week of the show was the second largest in history, trailing only 2018 with the 40,000 growth in one week largely due to the debut of Chris Jericho, facing Omega. The 1/4 show had the most live viewers of any event in the history of the service. However, Ibushi vs. White set the record for most watched match, followed by Ibushi vs. Naito and Hiromu Takahashi’s two matches.