So new thread idea. I'm going to list a  retired/older female wrestler and people can respond about how good they thought that wrestler was, what their most impressive matches were , what kind of lasting impact they had on women's wrestling, and how  they would rate amongst todays wreslters in the modern era in mainstream wrestling. I will after a time change the wrestler we will talk about. We will start with Beth Phoenix 


Beth Phoenix is odd in that imo her most memorable/better matches outside of maybe her  tables match with Layocool, and herI Quit match with Melina (although that was largely heatless and missing some hardcore spots, It also dragged in points) were her carry-jobs with the mdoel-turned wrestlers like Candice, Kelly Kelly, and Eve. Looking back a lot of her matches with Mickie were boring and have not aged super well, and her royal rumble match with Melina was pretty sloppy. 

I think her two largest strengths was her ability to carry lesser talents and the fact that she was a tremendous base, and those two strengths go hand in hand. In her ppv matches with talents like Candice or Kelly she would just power them
 through these high spots that they would never try to pull off with anyone else.

As for weaknesses a lot of the time her offense/power spots would seem to lack impact, and her work would lack the viciousness that someone like Jazz was able to present. Also she had the tendency to have some very slow and boring matches if the opponent she was in the ring with wasn't the right fit especially later in her career.  

As for her impact on women's wrestling I think she's had a decent sized one. Although you don't see as many people out there today clearly inspired by her like say with Melina, Aj, or more recently Sasha and Bayley, there are clear examples of people like Taya who have taken inspiration form her especially with using her Glam-Slam finisher.  


If she were around today I think she would still be pretty well regarded . She'd still be one of the better female bases out there on the mainstream scene, and I think she would thrive under the current era of having much less restrictions.

Jade is using the Glam Slam now too!

I think she's an example of someone who was probably a better wrestler than they match history really bares out. As you allude to I don't think she ever had a really top tier match or one that would rank in the best of her era. Melina and Michelle for instance had better matches with each other than either of them had with Beth.

I love that she's still involved and has developed into a really good announcer after a bit of a rough start. She does a really good job putting over the women on NXT and acknowledging both the past and current trailblazers in a much more authentic way than WWE usually manages, and her now regular Royal Rumble appearances are a highlight.

Beth is a little bit like the independent wrestlers that worked for WWE prior to NXT. Sure, they were good - yet the era was completely wrong for them to be really, really great. 

If Beth had come along at the beginning of NXT's and later, the WWE's women's revolution, I believe we would have seen how talented she really was. 

I’m glad this was made because I’ve been wanting to talk about Beth for a while, the issue is I hate writing posts on my phone and can’t really bothered getting the laptop out haha

I will say this though - there was a great Network Special on Beth last night, under the “Icons” documentary series. As always with Network Docs, it was very well made.

I’m glad this was made because I’ve been wanting to talk about Beth for a while, the issue is I hate writing posts on my phone and can’t really bothered getting the laptop out haha

I will say this though - there was a great Network Special on Beth last night, under the “Icons” documentary series. As always with Network Docs, it was very well made.

Beth Phoenix was way better than WWE made her look. She had solid matches in SHIMMER before WWE with Danger and MsChif. Also had some solid matches with Mercedes. As soon as Beth hit the scene she was showing she could hang with the best in the indys which is why WWE locked her up super fast.

WWE sadly had few people on her level really and she could only fight Nattie and Mickie so many times.  Which ultimately was why she walked.  When you fight models who really do not care about the wrestling side of their jobs much what is the point?

Mar 25, 2021 10:36:08 GMT NATH45 said:

Beth is a little bit like the independent wrestlers that worked for WWE prior to NXT. Sure, they were good - yet the era was completely wrong for them to be really, really great. 

If Beth had come along at the beginning of NXT's and later, the WWE's women's revolution, I believe we would have seen how talented she really was. 

Dug out some REALLY early Phoenix stuff for you'll against Mercedes and Danger.

Also hard to find any of the matches, but Phoenix and Alere Littlefeather had a few great matches. Littlefeather always made Beth look nasty as fuck with the way she would take the slams. Here is a partial match.

In all those matches it is clear Beth is green as shit but had so much potential if she could get in the ring more with more talented people. Sadly, there were not many great womens wrestlers at that time in the indys as DP was really just gathering people together for Volcano Girls then SHIMMER. Even then though, Beth was someone considered good enough to pair with Danger on the first SHIMMER show though.  Clearly shows IMO, if she stayed working with the top girls in SHIMMER (Lynch, Danger, Mercedes, ect) she would have had a more better career as she would learn from the people she is wrestling instead of having to teach.

Man seeing those videos feels like a lifetime ago.

So since I feel people have had their say about Beth, we're moving on to Jacqueline.

Jacqueline had an incredibly long career being a consistently active wrestler for about 25 years.

She's someone who felt incredibly ahead of her time in terms of her wrestling style, her strikes and suplexes made her stand out in the crowd especially when it came to babyfaces. She suffers from what a lot of women from her era do in terms of not being given the time to have truly high-level matches, like Trish before Summerslam 2019.

I feel as though she held up really well throughout her craeer even when she got older into her forties, to the point that I felt she wa underused during her main Impact run. I would have loved to see her vs Kong, Melissa, Taylor, or Hamada,

Jacqueline was a beast. I never had any qualms with her tangling with dudes in the CW division, as I don't doubt she could legit take most of them one on one. Her offense was indeed bad ass, as was her personality. She fight like a T as an unofficial member of APA in 2001. Would've loved to see her have a more prolonged feud with Jazz. Absolutely underrated. And for my money, the best Attitude Era puppies.

Mmm, chocolate titties!

Jacqueline was great southern wrestler. What many do not know about her, is she cut her teeth in fucking FMW wrestling both Kudo and Combat Toyota as Sweet Georgia Brown.

Super early Jackie match:



Girl had serious talent and could work anyone it seemed no matter how untalented they were.

Lets get it straight, Ms.Jacqueline did not play. She could really throw down with the best of them. Male or Female. I just wish that she never feuded with Sable. I understand why Vince did it, but Sable didn't care about the business. I always felt it should've been her and Luna for the belt or a great storyline.

Apr 5, 2021 1:10:41 GMT Da Gr8t I Is said:

Lets get it straight, Ms.Jacqueline did not play. She could really throw down with the best of them. Male or Female. I just wish that she never feuded with Sable. I understand why Vince did it, but Sable didn't care about the business. I always felt it should've been her and Luna for the belt or a great storyline.

Plus, Jackie's tits > Sable's tits every damn day of the week.

Nikki Roxx/Roxxi is another who should have had a better career than she eneded up having. She did have some memorable moments/matches in TNA but she was never pushed to the level she should have been, she was top face material IMO and could have taken over after Gail left.

She had a super likeable personality and while she wasn't super charismatic or great on the mic she had a certain quality that really made you root for her. In the ring she was another great base like Beth was, and had some really cool offense that she executed well.

I'm really disappointed we never got any Roxxi vs Taylor, Roxxi vs Gail, or Roxxi vs Sarita long singles/stitle matches.