Dec 17, 2017 15:34:35 GMT shinobimusashi said:

 Shane vs London was a spectacular 4+ Star match, my new favorite match of these tapes so far.

I'm glad you liked it. That was my 2002 ROH match of the year. It was insane live. 

Shin watching 2002 ROH?!?!



I remember when I first started getting bored of WWE in late 2009 and gave up on it, I randomly saw a ROH match between Seth Rollins and Bryan Danielson, then watching these old shows. I absolutely love ROH from 2002-08, it's the best time period of any promotion in my opinion and hopefully you get to watch more years of ROH as the promotion grows and gets better, the period of 2005-2006 might honestly be the best ever and it's what makes ROH my favourite promotion ever. Everything becomes awesome, you have some epic matches, characters and storylines, continutiy and everythig else in between.

I know this is off topic but remembering old ROH is what makes me hate modern day wrestling - like WWE is still awful and the entire Indie scene is fixatated on getting 'This is awesome' chants and stupid 5 star ratings from Dave Meltzer like a bunch of geeks that run the wrestling scene and they now all have the exact same match. It really makes it hard to get it into wrestling anymore because iI legitimately haven't watched anything at all this year despite a few times wanting to get back into it but I just know I'll end up getting frustrated at it and i don't know what the point in watching something is when you just get annoyed at it  It's honestly how I got more into MMA, like WME is awful at running the UFC but I still enjoy it way more than wrestling at the moment.

These 02 ROH shows might not be the best but anything involving Low-Ki is destined to be awesome and ROH legitimately gets better as it goes on, it might not be ECW good but it's still pretty damn good in so many ways. If you can get your hands on them, I'd highly recommend to keep going. ROH was the ECW altnerative, it might not be ''hardcore'' like ECW but it was the alternative to what was going on in the WWE/TNA at the time and it was attempting to change things up which I think they succeeded. It was the golden time of indepedent wrestling, when you had plenty of awesome wrestlers who had a personality but also knew how to put on an awesome match, didn't just wrestle like a bunch of MOVEZ~! like today with being highly concerned with some nerd like Meltzer thinks. You actually got awesome matches with awesome storylines and that's what I love about ROH, it fit with the modern times of the early 2000s like how ECW fit for the 90s.

When Punk and Raven shows up shit gets all kinds of real in terms of storytelling.

Dec 25, 2017 13:56:55 GMT kashdinero said:

When Punk and Raven shows up shit gets all kinds of real in terms of storytelling.

Punks promo at Wrestlerave 2003 is honestly one of my favourite Punk promos ever

I finished downloading the 2003 pack last week and got my eye on the 2004 pack now, plan on getting back into these after the holidays. Interesting stuff. Hopefully somebody uploads 2005 and 2006 by the time I get done with these.

One of my only gripes was that I didn't like how they put the title on Xavier so quickly after Low Ki won it, and if you was going to give that faction the title seems like Daniels would have been the better way to go. 

Dec 26, 2017 0:23:32 GMT shinobimusashi said:

One of my only gripes was that I didn't like how they put the title on Xavier so quickly after Low Ki won it

Nobody did. Xavier as ROH champ literally had zero fans. I never met anybody, anywhere who was like "Yeah, Xavier as ROH champ was awesome." People didn't even hate him in the good way. It was more of a "Well, that was stupid" kind of thing.

Gabe wanted a heel champ, and he knew Daniels would get cheered, so he hotshotted Xavier to the belt. It wasn't a bad idea in theory (and that's the closest you'll ever see to a defense of Xavier's run as champ) but Xavier was the wrong guy for it. He hadn't been built at all. Nor did he have the charisma to pull it off. And ROH really wasn't the right kind of place for what Gabe had in mind. There are only maybe a half dozen guys in the promotion's history that could have pulled off what Gabe wanted.

I actually liked Xavier, but wasn't a fan of him as champ at all. I loved the dynamic of Daniels having him as his chosen one of The Prophecy, but with so many other worthy champs on hand it was a poor choice no doubt. At least things change with the next champ..

I'm not entirely sure of the reasoning behind LowKi's short reign, but it could have been due to Ki's infamous behind the scenes stubborness/apparent dickish behaviour, or maybe he had Pro Wrestling NOAH commitments. Not too sure of the timeline, but I know he jumped ship from Zero-1 and joined that promotion around that period. Then again, with all the changes that happened on that Unscripted show perhaps Gabe's plans for the future had been affected and he thought fuck it let's just bump the Xavier title win into effect early.

BTW shinobimusashi , Joe's match vs LowKi at Glory By Honor is definitely one to get hyped for. I haven't seen it in ages, but it was one of my favourite matches ever at the time. It was basically a retake of their match at King of the Indies the previous year, but a whole lot better. It was also the first match where I didn't see Joe as a Samoan rip off of Taz, and more of a very welcomed 2.0 of The Human Suplex Machine... God, what I wouldn't give to see those two go at it in their respective primes. Oh well, at least we got that little student/teacher partnership in TNA (:rofl:). Either way, I'm excited for you to get to know what many of us here already know: Samoa Joe was the real fucking deal in ROH (and is once again in WWE, which makes me very happy indeed).

I've always assumed with Daniels being in TNA was why he wasn't chosen, not the heel cheers dynamic so that's interesting to know.

Finally finished Glory By Honor tonight. I'd seen Low Ki vs Samoa Joe on the old PW years ago, couldn't remember much about it. Really loved it watching it this time, probably my favorite match so far out of all these tapes(will try to put together a top 10 matches after watching the rest of these). It's nice to be able to see that match with the full context after watching all the shows leading up to it, Low Ki is coming off of losing the ROH title to Xavier at the last show where Xavier joined "The Prophecy" with Christopher Daniels. Here the Prophecy has Samoa Joe like a hired hitman to take out Low Ki, a fucking battle of a match but Low Ki takes him out.

I actually watched the first hour or so a few weeks ago and just never got the time to finish this until tonight. Can't remember much about the earlier parts of this show. I kinda dig the stuff they got going with Guido and Tony Mamaluke. There was a cool match with Amazing Red vs Ikuto Hidaka, not as good as I was expecting it to be but still cool match. Hidaka had a cup of coffee in ECW in 2000 and I really liked him, so it's cool to see him popping up here.

Honestly I liked Joe vs Low Ki so much I had a hard time finishing this show, everything after that match was totally skippable, including some really terrible backstage scenes.

Love me some Ikuto Hidaka. His tag team with Dick Togo back then worked for me big time, with the veteran Togo and the younger Hidaka creating a nice dynamic. IIRC they were a part of that Unscripted tag tourney.

Awesome to have Baker's post on the first page that I can use as a reference guide for names and dates without clicking off of this thread. I'm watching All Star Extravaganza right now, I'm glad nobody spoiled the Tommy Dreamer appearance for me, that was awesome. There is a gauntlet match Dreamer shuts down after coming out to force a guy(Shawn Michaels cousin) to shake hands after a match. Crowd gives him one of the best reactions of any moment on any of these shows up to this point as he cuts a promo about ECW and the way ROH guys are busting their asses the same way they would back in the day. Tommy says that ROH reminds him of ECW and maybe one day WWE will be raiding their talent the same way. Then HBK's cousin attacked Paul London after shaking his hand and Tommy drops him with a DDT, then he demands to make his exit to his real music, Alice In Chains "Man In The Box"! Crowd was all about this chanting ECW and shit, great moment.

All Star Extravaganza was one of the best shows so far, really solid card from top to bottom, almost every match was good. I liked the way the gauntlet match was booked, love the way they had Dreamer come out and put the company over the way they did. Also at one point in the show they bring out JT Smith like he's a major deal. Smith gets confronted and attacked by the heels until some lower card babyfaces comes out to make the save. Something else that is minor on the undercards that I have liked but have not mentioned in my posts in this thread, the jacked black dude in a suit and sunglasses that just randomly comes into the ring and 911's fools before going to the back of the arena to stand with his arms folded. It's just really random and bizarre, nobody knows who he is or what is going on, it works for me though, especially love how he decided to spare JT Smith in his beat down here on this show.

Really good match with Dragon vs AJ Styles and the main event tag match was good as well. Great show.

The Dreamer cameo ruled. You know I was marking out for that one. Although I did misremember it happening at Unscripted. Was also there for the cool JT Smith appearance. Obviously popped once again. It was nice to see JT get such a hero's welcome.

Dreamer was spot on about WWE one day raiding ROH talent. Tommy Dreamer: Prophet.

The big black guy ends up being named Slugger. He doesn't pan out and I doubt if I had thought about him one time in 15 years. Remember some guy at an ROH show telling me he was former Philadelphia Eagle Harry Boatswain, who had done some stuff in ECW w/ Pillman. I believed this for quite some time.

:lol: That would be awesome if it was the same dude that was Pillman's bodyguard that one time in ECW.

Oh my lord, Slugger. I had totally forgot about that monster. I also can't actually remember much about his time in RoH other than him hitting poor saps with monster moves.

Did he have anything to do with Special K?

Good talk, Kash... Great input..

*

That match between AJ and Dragon was great. It makes me kinda sad thinking about the fact that they probably won't get to wrestle each other in WWE, who, just like Tommy predicted, were indeed finally raided from RoH. It just took a few years for said prediction to happen, which sorta makes the prediction even more awesome. 

*

Full card esults..

  All-Star Extravaganza Philadelphia, PA 11/9/02    

1. The SAT defeated Special K (Dixie & Joey Matthews), Divine Storm and Da Hit Squad in a Scramble Match 

2. Number One Contender's Trophy Gauntlet Series: Michael Shane defeated CM Punk, Paul London defeated Michael Shane, Paul London defeated Amazing Red, and Bryan Danielson defeated Paul London to face AJ Styles later in the evening for the Number One Contender's Trophy. After the London/Shane matchup, Shane refused to shake hands, but Tommy Dreamer came down and forced him to before telling the crowd how ROH reminds him of ECW.

3. ROH Tag Title Match: The Prophecy (Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels & Donovan Morgan) defeated Homicide, Doug Williams & Low Ki to retain 

4. Alexis Laree defeated Allison Danger 5. The Carnage Crew (Loc & Devito) defeated The Ring Crew Express 

6. ROH Title Match: Xavier defeated Jay Briscoe to retain

7. #1 Contenders Trophy Match: AJ Styles defeated Bryan Danielson

8. Shinjiro Ohtani & Masato Tanaka defeated Low Ki & Steve Corino

Looking at that card brings me back.

MFing Ring Crew Express, baybay! **air guitar** I was a fan of their little feud with fellow ring crew members, Oman Tortuga and.. Diablo Santiago (?) AKA The Outcast Killaz. As green as they were they provided entertainment and were never really presented above their young lion spot while still being presented in the best possible light. Gabe learnt well from uncle Paul. RCX were good examples of the RoH slow build with its characters.

Doug Williams was killing it RoH back then and making an International name for himself which made me a happy customer. I still have a (second generation) copy of Road to the Title with his autograph on it

That main event looks great on paper, but I remember it not really living up to my expectations, although, they were probably pretty lofty considering how much of a mark I was for three of the four participants.

Early RoH CM Punk is quite funny to look back on. He looks soooooo young. His entance themes were awesome, though. Not as awesome as Daniel Bryans (Self Esteem) but still pretty great. Took him a few shows to hit his stride in RoH too. He was was sloppy early on, which happens a lot when you try to cram too much shit in a match. Raven did that guy all kinds of favours in terms of how to lay a match out (and story telling, and promos, and... ect).

Jan 21, 2018 19:25:48 GMT kashdinero said:

Oh my lord, Slugger. I had totally forgot about that monster. I also can't actually remember much about his time in RoH other than him hitting poor saps with y of onster moves.

Did he have anything to do with Special K?

MFing Ring Crew Express, baybay! **air guitar** they provided entertainment and were never really presented above their young lion spot while still being presented in the best possible light. Gabe learnt well from uncle Paul. RCX were good examples of the RoH slow build with its characters.

His entance themes were awesome, though. Not as awesome as Daniel Bryans (Self Esteem) but still pretty great.

Slugger was definitely the muscle of Special K for a little while. Last night I also found out he was apparently a Rottweiler as well. I have no recollection of that.

Yep. The Ring Crew Express ruled. Still think they should have won the tag titles at some point. They were no less worthy than like half a dozen teams who did win it.

Didn't think Self Esteem was a good fit for American Dragon. He didn't really find a winning theme until the Imperial March (imo) and then finally hit a homerun with Final Countdown.

Baker , I liked Self Esteem for Dragon back then because I thought it suited his geeky persona. As he grew as a personality and a man in general his entrance themes evolved with him, ending up with the final countdown before he ascended to WWE and adopted the highly apt Flight of the Valykries. 

I too can't really remember Slugga in The Rottweilers. Maybe he was a part of that big massive brawl thing that also involved ***** ****** at the end of Epic Encounter? I dunno, I'm racking my brain to remember many of those early Rotweilers. Um, Lowlife Louie Ramon and Grim Reefer spring to mind. Either way I was a big Homicide fan around then, and the additition of "The Devils Son-in-Law"Julius Smokes into his act was a big part of that.

Co-sign on RCX as should have been RoH WTTC and agreed on the reasoning. A short little run would have been worth the pop of a fluke victory. They were like the tag team version of Mikey Whipwreck and they should have had the title win to go with it.
I'm wondering how shinobimusashi , is gonna take to the Pure division once it starts getting introduced properly. I know it was a hit and miss thing for some. Personally I was a fan for the most part, although I kinda wasn't a John Walters fan when he came along and gets the rocket to the top treatment. When he showed up on Raw just to do the job to Chris Masters while he was all up in the middle of his big RoH push, I got a chuckle. Gabe, on the other hand probably nearly had an anyurism while he tore up the notebook that held the plans to make John THE guy. Unsurprisingly, today, nine out of ten geezers are all like who!? Whenever his name is mentioned. The one is obviously The Bake, who I hope wasn't a fan of his But, yeah, I liked the Pure division. Guys like Dean Malenko student Chad Collyer, Matt Stryker (best unibrow in the biz), Tom Carter (AKA ya boy Reckless Youth!), and, yes, Doug Williams were the shit to me back then.

Speaking of Chad Collyer & Matt Stryker whatever happened to them kashdinero,? they were around for a bit then they vanished? same with John Walters.

Ed, without a Wiki search I would have no idea where those three are today, but I can imagine all three are retired now, although I wouldn't put it past Chad to be teaching wrestling somewhere..

*one quick Wikisearch later*

....

Chad is apparently semi-retired, with his last match being in 2015? He is now currently listed as being a magician and a mentalist (sounds like the perfect job for an ex-rassler.