If 🤯 and @ness are allowed a thread for their drug fueled madness and c is allowed to re-invent facts in the US Politics thread... 😉 Why not give iNCY a thread to rant and talk to himself in?

So there are a lot of topics I like to write about, but my first will be a reflection on book that has literally blown my mind, my desk is replete with splatters of sawdust.
Sometimes you have a lot of ideas bouncing around in your head and you come across a book or hear someone speak that crystalizes all of these ideas into a coherent thought.
In this case I listened to the book with Audible, I am currently doing around a book a week or every two weeks.
(I like that you can increase the speed to 1.15 which stops me from getting bored)

In this case the book is:



I was so impressed that I bought as couple of copies as gifts for people.
The book came to me through the very excellent Timothy Ferris Podcast: tim.blog/podcast/
I don't listen to every episode, only the ones where the guests grab me.


"The Obstacle is the Way" is not so much of a self-help books as an analysis of how people like Marcus Aurelius applied the practices of Stoicism and what the same applications look like today.
These are some of the points the book impressed on me most:

• In life our obstacles and struggles are like Mountains, but after this mountain is another mountain and another, so rather than enduring life begrudgingly as we wait for times to improve we are challenged to climb well
• Obstacles are not an impediment to success, our ability to overcome obstacles will define our success
• Not directly stated in the book, but it occurred to me that the opposite is also true, we cannot get anything more than average and typical results doing what the average person does.

As I read these hard truths I realised how we are failing our kids as a society.
My daughter's school is pretty awesome, they have signed up to something called the resilience project: theresilienceproject.com.au/
I totally support the goals and my company has evens sponsored it directly with the school financially.
The other night I attended a Webinar from the guy running it.
He mentioned building resilience into children so that they better have the tools to deal with life, without  getting too deeply into it, we are on track for suicide to become the leading cause of death in young people, which is a tragedy I have no words to express my sorrow at....

He mentioned an anecdote that while dropping his son off at Pre-School he was stopped at traffic lights in front of school and he noticed about 11 parents cross the road walking their young children to school.
Of all he observed, 8 of the parents were carrying their children's school bags.
This hit me hard as a parent.
We are concerned with making the way smooth for our kids and helping them to avoid hurt, but that is not what the world is.
The world is not a fair place and it will only be those who develop resillience that will flourish.
There is no Utopia over the next mountain there is only more mountains, more struggles.
Our success therefore is not avoiding the mountains, but learning to climb well (I know this is a vaguest of metaphors)

To extrapolate further, the world is obsessed with removing mountains, we call it different things now:
"Systematic inequality", "Socialism", "Quotas"
But the methodology is all wrong, societies are never improved by making things easy for people.
We grow as a society when we equip people with the tools to climb and tell them to have at it.

This is the other thought I cannot escape.
Now we tell everyone to go to school, so they can learn to think like everyone else, so they can get a job in a company full of people who think just like us.
Then we can do what everyone else does... But somehow our results are going to surpass everyone elses? How exactly?

How is society going to be improved by more people doing what everyone else has done without results?

All we can do is accept the card we are dealt and play it the best damned way we can.

Here ends installment one, feel free to do any or all of the following:

• Agree
• Disagree
• Ignore
• Pledge to urinate upon my early grave
• Comment
• Look forward to my next entry
• Place me on your ignore list

Next post will go up soon.

Where’s the option “All of the above?”

Have you ever heard of the blogger Mr Money Mustache? I think you’d like him. www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/

Grit was all the hype in education a few years back until people just realized it was just recycled survivorship bias. By focusing on success we make assumptions on why people fail. Instead we should focus on failure and make the assumptions on why people succeed.

Good critique of grit in common language here.  The published worked uses mostly statistical language.

www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-limits-of-grit

Mar 31, 2021 4:07:26 GMT Gyro LC said:

Where’s the option “All of the above?”

Have you ever heard of the blogger Mr Money Mustache? I think you’d like him. www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/

It's a great post, I just read through it.
My experience in life knowing poor people and a few of the ridiculously wealthy ones is that lifestyle desire always sits at 105-110% of what you can afford with your income.
More people have a spending problem than an earning problem is a sentiment I 100% agree with

Have you visited the /r/leanfire/ ? It's a community the espouses these beliefs hardcore, but it doesn't resonate with me so much.
For those other than the knowledgeable Mr Gyro LC, whoa re reading the thread FIRE stands for "Financially Independent Retire Early"
The idea that living off a can of bean a day so you can retire at 50 to live off a can of beans a day holds ZERO interest to me.
I know that's not exactly what Mr Money Mustache is referring to and I do agree with the concept of "Hedonic Adaptation"

But where he shits all over the following statements:




I would agree with both of those two people.

It's like when people tell my friends to "cut up their credit cards" or "debt is bad" it makes me want to tear my hair out.
I don't see credit as good or bad, it is simply a tool for the people using it.
Credit Cards aren't a problem and I fully think people shouldn't have a credit card while their spending is out of control, but I also think if someone cannot own a credit card, they will never make it.

So while I believe in: "Pay yourself first": link
And living within your means, I don't mind enjoying the finer things along the way.
It may take longer to get there, but I will get there and if it means we have a nice car, nice house and I can take my kids to Hawaii, I will settle for that.
I will definitely subscribe to the blog, I do think he makes some valuable points....

And I don't know if you have ever looked at it, but r/FatFIRE is more my scene.
My approach is more to enjoy the journey, but still get to the point where my passive investments cover my income.
Still a fair way off, but my target in the next decade is to get to 100-150k per year.
Would love to hit 70k by the end of next year.

But I am super financially conservative, everything except my house I bought with cash and my house is effectively (but not actually) paid for now.

Mar 31, 2021 4:26:21 GMT c said:

Grit was all the hype in education a few years back until people just realized it was just recycled survivorship bias. By focusing on success we make assumptions on why people fail. Instead we should focus on failure and make the assumptions on why people succeed.

Good critique of grit in common language here.  The published worked uses mostly statistical language.

www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-limits-of-grit

c, I am not talking about "Grit".
I don't think going down into a gold mine and banging your fist against the coal face is going to yield results however long we do it.
It's surprising to me that you took that idea from my post.

What I am saying is that life is hard, it is meant to be hard.
We can pretend that life is not hard, but all we do is guarantee that people will fail.
If we instead teach people that life is hard and their ability to meet the challenges will define their success, we have a chance of improving their lives.
Instead we tell them to go to school, get an education and once they are qualified they can shout "Open Sesame" at the world and enjoy an ever-increasing standard of living.
World has never worked that way, Antifa and Occupy Wall street before it, in many ways is a response to the realisation that they were sold a crock of shit.

Where they go wrong is the idea that there is a Utopia waiting just beyond the boundaries of society... There isn't.
It's why socialism fails every time, bulldoze every mountain and nobody climbs.

I’ve looked at r/leanfire before. Those people are maniacs. I wouldn’t want to live like that.

Triple M’s target demographic is upper-middle class who are broke because they blow their paycheck on luxuries then whine about how broke they are. He’s definitely an iconoclast. He does a lot of large DIY projects that you may find interesting as a tradie.

Don't have the time to scroll through c's links right now, but from what I gather he's referencing the idea that you can do everything right and still lose.

Diversify all you want but during a full global downturn your net worth is dropping too.

A karaoke place nearby basically shut down when road construction went on for yeeeeears, blocking access to his establishment. Sure, his business failed but not because of anything he did or didn't do.

Also I thought a big part of FIRE was to almost disregard the RE part of it, many of them would continue to work but either part time or in another, less profitable field. The FI part gives them the opportunity to work on their own terms doing what they want, but RE to them doesn't mean vacation, and then sit on the couch and stare at the wall in between vacations. It's the ability to say 'I only want to work two days a week' or 'I only want to work on this project' and being able to tell your employer take it or leave it, and being fine walking away.

Mar 31, 2021 4:44:58 GMT iNCY said:

Mar 31, 2021 4:26:21 GMT c said:

Grit was all the hype in education a few years back until people just realized it was just recycled survivorship bias. By focusing on success we make assumptions on why people fail. Instead we should focus on failure and make the assumptions on why people succeed.

Good critique of grit in common language here.  The published worked uses mostly statistical language.

www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-limits-of-grit

c , I am not talking about "Grit".
I don't think going down into a gold mine and banging your fist against the coal face is going to yield results however long we do it.
It's surprising to me that you took that idea from my post.

What I am saying is that life is hard, it is meant to be hard.
We can pretend that life is not hard, but all we do is guarantee that people will fail.
If we instead teach people that life is hard and their ability to meet the challenges will define their success, we have a chance of improving their lives.
Instead we tell them to go to school, get an education and once they are qualified they can shout "Open Sesame" at the world and enjoy an ever-increasing standard of living.
World has never worked that way, Antifa and Occupy Wall street before it, in many ways is a response to the realisation that they were sold a crock of shit.

Where they go wrong is the idea that there is a Utopia waiting just beyond the boundaries of society... There isn't.
It's why socialism fails every time, bulldoze every mountain and nobody climbs.

That is modern grit though.  Teach kids life is hard and how to endure it.  Grit uses extremes as an example but the theory in practice is basically about persevering through challenges.  When examined critically, it comes down to people with resources can face challenges easier than people who lack the resources.  But with grit theory, we can now blame people for their own failures, and justify denying them the resources they will need to succeed.  

This is why grit got repackaged as social-emotional learning or non-cognitive learning.  Once people realized it was basically victim blaming it became toxic.

Also frankly these are not new idea.  These ideas that life is hard and we need to train people to face it repeatedly is repackaged throughout history.  Tough love, asceticism, the power of thought, mental discipline, self-reliance, ect.  It is like the wheel that gets reinvented endlessly. 

Mar 31, 2021 4:57:50 GMT Gyro LC said:

I’ve looked at r/leanfire before. Those people are maniacs. I wouldn’t want to live like that.

Triple M’s target demographic is upper-middle class who are broke because they blow their paycheck on luxuries then whine about how broke they are. He’s definitely an iconoclast. He does a lot of large DIY projects that you may find interesting as a tradie.

I will definitely stay subscribed and read though the back-issues

Mar 31, 2021 5:01:56 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Don't have the time to scroll through c's links right now, but from what I gather he's referencing the idea that you can do everything right and still lose.

Diversify all you want but during a full global downturn your net worth is dropping too.

A karaoke place nearby basically shut down when road construction went on for yeeeeears, blocking access to his establishment. Sure, his business failed but not because of anything he did or didn't do.

That is completely true, I do not doubt this in the least.
It wouldn't matter how much I practiced Tennis, I am not winning the US Open.
To know when to quit is also part of how you succeed.

I watched an Ex-Colleague who was a boss of mine for a while, blow his entire life savings on a business that he could not separate his ego from. 
He ended up losing everything except some of the equity in his family home.

Another friend started up a an IT company and had an idea I helped him develop, could have been the next Zuckerberg.
But he was determined to work full time on his business, I told him he was crazy as he had a trade and the ability to generate income.
I pleaded with him to even get a job working night shift in a gas station, anything to pay the bills.
he refused and lost everything.

There is some advice that often gets mentioned that I despise, it goes something like this:



It's a total nonsense, the idea that you should burn your boats that success or death might be your only options.
I am a pragmatist, if you think that burning your boats is necessary to inspire the troops you are probably going to lose.

I equally despise the commonly used business speak that goes like this:



I can actually see what people were getting at, which is that if you're going to fail at something do it quickly.
What it has become instead is throw as much shit at the wall as you can and see what sticks.
This is the methodology that drives the OPM industry (Other Peoples Money) people play loose and fast while other people bankroll their startups.
But Silicon Valley has created more craters than rockets in its time by a fair margin.

I would say, that leaning into my trade background the best analogy for life planning is:



Know your limitations, have clearly defined goals and exit points, then get after it.
There is just not enough scientific method in how people live their life.
While I am not a particularly smart person, I have been told that I often see patterns in unrelated thoughts and ideas, maybe this helps me I don't know.
As an Electrician, I have been meaning to get around to buying this T-Shirt



The formula is V=IR
Voltage is equal to the Ohms times the Amps in this picture
The greater the resistance the greater current requiring ever increasing voltage.
Where people get into trouble is they do not evaluate and re-valuate the resistance to their ideas or plans.
Infinite resistance requires high energy.
When I look at this, I think of Voltage as being effort, Amps being the idea or plan and Ohms being the resistance.

We all have to evaluate our efforts and apply them in places where our ideas can overcome the resistance.
Otherwise we are just throwing shit against a wall.. To state it a little more colloquially. 

Mar 31, 2021 5:04:36 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Also I thought a big part of FIRE was to almost disregard the RE part of it, many of them would continue to work but either part time or in another, less profitable field. The FI part gives them the opportunity to work on their own terms doing what they want, but RE to them doesn't mean vacation, and then sit on the couch and stare at the wall in between vacations. It's the ability to say 'I only want to work two days a week' or 'I only want to work on this project' and being able to tell your employer take it or leave it, and being fine walking away.

FI is a think, a lot of people wish to be Financially Independent, but the RE is a bridge further.
This is when their passive income means they don't have to work at all.
To be honest I don't like the idea of leanFIRE and I will never have the money to FATfire, I will just have to settle for chubbyFIRE or rotundFIRE.

Mar 31, 2021 5:18:48 GMT c said:

Mar 31, 2021 4:44:58 GMT iNCY said:

c , I am not talking about "Grit".
I don't think going down into a gold mine and banging your fist against the coal face is going to yield results however long we do it.
It's surprising to me that you took that idea from my post.

What I am saying is that life is hard, it is meant to be hard.
We can pretend that life is not hard, but all we do is guarantee that people will fail.
If we instead teach people that life is hard and their ability to meet the challenges will define their success, we have a chance of improving their lives.
Instead we tell them to go to school, get an education and once they are qualified they can shout "Open Sesame" at the world and enjoy an ever-increasing standard of living.
World has never worked that way, Antifa and Occupy Wall street before it, in many ways is a response to the realisation that they were sold a crock of shit.

Where they go wrong is the idea that there is a Utopia waiting just beyond the boundaries of society... There isn't.
It's why socialism fails every time, bulldoze every mountain and nobody climbs.

That is modern grit though.  Teach kids life is hard and how to endure it.  Grit uses extremes as an example but the theory in practice is basically about persevering through challenges.  When examined critically, it comes down to people with resources can face challenges easier than people who lack the resources.  But with grit theory, we can now blame people for their own failures, and justify denying them the resources they will need to succeed.  

This is why grit got repackaged as social-emotional learning or non-cognitive learning.  Once people realized it was basically victim blaming it became toxic.

Also frankly these are not new idea.  These ideas that life is hard and we need to train people to face it repeatedly is repackaged throughout history.  Tough love, asceticism, the power of thought, mental discipline, self-reliance, ect.  It is like the wheel that gets reinvented endlessly. 

I covered most of this in my reply to Michinokudriver, but it is not what I am saying at all.
It's not about banging your head against the wall.
Not everyone is going to "make it" I accept that completely, but that doesn't mean you should constrain those that do.



This quote will remain as true in a thousand years as it does now.
You cannot escape the reality of scarcity, not everyone can have everything.
It also doesn't mean that because some people will fail that other people shouldn't try or be allowed to.

I rarely see people exploring their full potential, I know I haven't explored my full potential, not even the majority of it.
I do know that no growth comes without pain and it is hard to fail, it is hard to get up at 4am and jog (why I don't do it)
It's hard to get hung up on, have the door closed in your face, lose the order, get told no...

All of these things suck, but we now see all of these outcomes as bad and to be avoided, so enraptured are we with the idea of a charmed life we actively avoid any sort of stress or failuire.
This is all fine and good, people don't have to face stress and failure, but should anyone ever expect improvement, that is what needs to be done.

But as I said in my previous post, no not everyone is going to succeed, it is not about grit though, it is not about the hard slog.
It is about choosing where to apply yourself and being disciplined about how you do it.
I know you will argue, you always do, but history shows that this is what it takes.
When the pioneers build the train tracks, we can all get a house near the station.

I might not be on the same tangent as you intellectuals so bear with me.

As a parent I have long criticized society and our education system for exactly what you are talking about. I remember when Caycee was in grade 9 they were giving out gold stars in my daughter's math class. We're talking 14 year old's headed to High School the next year and you're giving out gold stars? Or there's the fact that they can't hand out zeroes anymore or you are allowed to take a test as many times as you need to in order to pass. Life doesn't work that way. So when my daughter went to University she was in for a culture shock and promptly shit the bed. She had no idea how to study and despite being in advanced English for 6 years had no idea how to write a University level essay. I was shocked. I learned to write University level essays starting in Grade 7. I had no idea, because teenagers stop listening and talking to you and they don't send home homework any more because parents got pissy because it took away from their home time and extra curriculars. Now things might have changed, but this is what I dealt with as a parent.

I love my daughter and though she is getting better, she is not resilient. The minute she turned 18, I no longer spoke for her, made appointments for her, or got involved in her decisions. I never called into work for her even before that like some parents. I started her independence at a young age because I worked two jobs and she still isn't 100% independent so I'm not sure what I did wrong there. My daughter has a beautiful heart and soul, but she has to be one of the worst problem solvers in the history of problem solvers which is stunning to me, because it's where I seem to excel. Then again, I didn't have as charmed a life as she did so maybe that's somewhat my fault. I didn't want to jade her early, but I always tried to present the options to her and be realistic. Unfortunately, her grandparents (while wonderful people) often solved her issues without her having to do much to figure out the problem. Needs a new car, suddenly Grandma wants a new vehicle so Caycee can buy hers for much lower then she would get anywhere else. Can't afford school this semester? Suddenly Grandma and Grandpa have a garage full of cans that surprise! come to that exactly that amount. I think that's what's happening more and more, these kids are getting rescued too easily. My mom is better about it because guess where I learned about the school of hard knocks? I remember my mom's favorite line 'life's not fair' and I repeated it to Caycee quite often because it's true. I told her repeatedly, there is no such thing as 'luck'; you work hard, be extraordinary and make your own. You just need to figure out what it is that makes you extraordinary because we all have it within us. Sometimes the opportunities are there we just need to recognize and accept them.


It reminds me about a parable my mom used to tell me. I am using 'God' but you can change it to 'Universe' or whatever suits your purpose.

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

Now you don't have to be a Christian for this parable to make sense. Sometimes we need to get out of our own way and take the opportunities that comes our way and not make obstacles where there are none.  Obstacles are going to come your way.  That's just life, but it's how you choose to tackle them that matters.   

Mar 31, 2021 5:40:29 GMT iron maiden said:

I might not be on the same tangent as you intellectuals so bear with me.

As a parent I have long criticized society and our education system for exactly what you are talking about. I remember when Caycee was in grade 9 they were giving out gold stars in my daughter's math class. We're talking 14 year old's headed to High School the next year and you're giving out gold stars? Or there's the fact that they can't hand out zeroes anymore or you are allowed to take a test as many times as you need to in order to pass. Life doesn't work that way. So when my daughter went to University she was in for a culture shock and promptly shit the bed. She had no idea how to study and despite being in advanced English for 6 years had no idea how to write a University level essay. I was shocked. I learned to write University level essays starting in Grade 7. I had no idea, because teenagers stop listening and talking to you and they don't send home homework any more because parents got pissy because it took away from their home time and extra curriculars. Now things might have changed, but this is what I dealt with as a parent.

I love my daughter and though she is getting better, she is not resilient. The minute she turned 18, I no longer spoke for her, made appointments for her, or got involved in her decisions. I never called into work for her even before that like some parents. I started her independence at a young age because I worked two jobs and she still isn't 100% independent so I'm not sure what I did wrong there. My daughter has a beautiful heart and soul, but she has to be one of the worst problem solvers in the history of problem solvers which is stunning to me, because it's where I seem to excel. Then again, I didn't have as charmed a life as she did so maybe that's somewhat my fault. I didn't want to jade her early, but I always tried to present the options to her and be realistic. Unfortunately, her grandparents (while wonderful people) often solved her issues without her having to do much to figure out the problem. Needs a new car, suddenly Grandma wants a new vehicle so Caycee can buy hers for much lower then she would get anywhere else. Can't afford school this semester? Suddenly Grandma and Grandpa have a garage full of cans that surprise! come to that exactly that amount. I think that's what's happening more and more, these kids are getting rescued too easily. My mom is better about it because guess where I learned about the school of hard knocks? I remember my mom's favorite line 'life's not fair' and I repeated it to Caycee quite often because it's true. I told her repeatedly, there is no such thing as 'luck'; you work hard, be extraordinary and make your own. You just need to figure out what it is that makes you extraordinary because we all have it within us. Sometimes the opportunities are there we just need to recognize and accept them.


It reminds me about a parable my mom used to tell me. I am using 'God' but you can change it to 'Universe' or whatever suits your purpose.

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

Now you don't have to be a Christian for this parable to make sense. Sometimes we need to get out of our own way and take the opportunities that comes our way and not make obstacles where there are none.  Obstacles are going to come your way.  That's just life, but it's how you choose to tackle them that matters.   

iron maiden, you 10/10 got exactly what I was saying, life is what it is.
We don't get to choose what cards we are dealt, we just have to play the hand as best as we can.

I have always got the incredible problem solver vibes for you, not to be in anyway condescending, but it is not fair that your husband turned out to be a shit head, it's not fair that you ended up a single mother.
But even when you have so many reasons to quit, you don't and you grind away at what you can do.
I have told you before that I think you would be a kick ass businesswoman if you went out on your own, but I understand we don't always have the flexibility in our lives to do that.
I do like your parable, it is one I have heard before and it resonates with me too.

The really crazy rich guy I know (lives in Canada ironically) was talking with a bunch of us at a trade show.
How I would paraphrase his view on wealth is as follows: (you could replace wealth with success or a number of other things if you wanted to).

1. You cannot sell something for more than the market value, so you make money when you buy, anything else is speculation
2. There is no profit until you sell it.
3. You cannot make it rain, all you can do is put out the buckets.

The last one rings especially true for me, I read a fantastic book years ago, a very short easy read:




It's not even important to read the book, the idea is that you take 10% of your income before you even look at it and bank it outside of your account and never touch it.
Similar to the blog post that Gyro LC, mentioned our wants always creep and normally if we had 10% we would spend it and for most middle-income people equally you would make do without 10%
When my last boss went broke we had been putting money away and could afford to try starting a business, I was very pragmatic about it, my constraints were:

• Give it 1 year to produce an income
• Invest no more than 50k of our own money
• Supplement my income with contract work if necessary

I imagine you did much the same, which is why you were able to buy your house when the opposition presented itself.


IMPORTANT NOTE:
I don't want any of my posts to sound preachy or condescending, I am just a dumb Aussie finding his way in the world and sharing what he has learnt.

*jollyFIRE

iNCY, I didn't find your post condescending at all. It's all true. Sure, I got dealt some shit cards in life, I'm sure we all have, but it's how you continue to rise that determines your resiliency.

Years ago I got tired of being a victim, acting like a victim and saying 'woe is me' because guess what happened? Life kept sucking with that mindset. I read something once and it stuck with me: 'You can be a victim of your own circumstances or you can rise above them', so I decided to rise above. Oh sure I keep getting knocked down every now and again, but I have a pity party, dust myself off and get back up. It's tiring sometimes, but the other option is quitting and damn if I'll give anyone the satisfaction.

My mom is actually the first one who told me about putting 10% away. I was not good with money (still am working on it) so I only starting doing that in the past 4 years. Coincidentally, 4 years ago is when Caycee turned 18 and moved in with her dad. She will be moving in with the bf come August so that will be interesting because she'll actually be living life outside of her parents' home.

I just found the whole Audiobook is on Youtube, but I doubt that it will stay up indefinitely:



I would be interested in the thoughts of anyone who can be bothered listening.

I think there are some contradictory concepts being presented here.

My mind is too cluttered to organize my thoughts in response well, so apologies in advance if this is all over the place.

I don't think resilience is meant for the masses. If everyone could climb well, then climbing becomes easy for all, which defeats the purpose of challenge as a growth opportunity. Also, what's the purpose of resilience as you're framing it? Survival? Or flourishing? Based on one's own individual abilities, or their aptitude to take advantage of their environment?

I think there's some conflating going on trying to rebrand "systematic inequality", "socialism", "quotas", etc. as making things easier for people. These are concepts for narrowing the gap between or compensating for classism, racism, etc. For giving a helping hand to generally oppressed people, who seem inherently oppressed because of the environment into which they were born... which is no fault of their own. I generally get why people have problems with programs that help others out, as the us vs. them phenomenon is a powerful thing (otherization is what makes war as palatable as it is for humanity). But these programs don't make things easier per se for the people taking part in them. They make situations more survivable, but those situations are still rife with challenges. On those grounds, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say most kids born into poor minority families are tenfold more resilient than your average white suburban kid.

It's been forever since I've stopped listening to non-PW podcasts, but a couple of my favorites were Dan Carlin's Hardcore History and Brett McKay's Art of Manliness. They separately touched on some things in history that pieced together in my head an interesting look ahead into where Western civilization is headed (at least white middle class Western civilization). Think it was Hardcore History that detailed how SAWFT the Romans (and ultimately every empire) became, and how it led to their collapse. The world didn't end... just their world. Empires rise and fall cyclically like that. Meanwhile, I think AoM was big into stoicism as a way to stave off becoming SAWFT... but stoicism didn't save the ancient Greeks or whoever else was practicing it. Ultimately, it seems like stoicism just benefits people on an individual level. And ultimately individuals don't matter. Societies write what's right or wrong since it's societies that outweigh and outlast the individual, and even whatever a given society writes will fade in time and be overwritten eventually.

That all said, as much as no white person wants to hear it, it's probably good that the majority of white kids are getting so SAWFT. Whether at the hands of their SAWFT parents or otherwise. Pretty sure the world in 50 years' time or so looks WAY less white, and maybe once the demographic scales have tipped... maybe then it'll be time for white people to relearn resilience en masse.

But perhaps I'm getting way off base, and focusing too much on class/race. Thanks for brining up "systematic inequality", "socialism", "quotas", etc. to get me all distracted.

On the topic of trying to raise more hardened kids, I generally agree with you but also appreciate how hard of a balance it can be to strike. Seems like lots of grey areas and fine lines to walk. Thankfully, I think the margin for error is pretty wide, as kids can be pretty forgiving so long as they know their parents love them. And no, love doesn't mean a parent being their kid's best friend or ensuring their kid is always happy or removing all obstacles in their kid's path. Personally, I'm thankful for my dad's mentality as a parent when raising me. While he seemed very hard and stern at times, it's because he viewed his mission as a parent to be preparing his kids to be able to take care of themselves in the world because he wouldn't always be there.

It sucks there's no manual for how to strike that right balance, because at the baby stage I'm currently in with son... I can already tell when he's crying because he's frustrated with something (vs.something actually wrong) but I also don't like hearing him cry (for my own selfish reason; i.e., I like peace and quiet). So am I starting him down the path of being a SAWFTie by picking him up too quick when he's fussing? Maybe... maybe not. Those are the mental gymnastics I'm already going through. And also, who knows if how I try to raise him will even be relevant for the world he enters as an adult. The world from when I was born to when I left college was considerably different. Probably will be even more so for son.

To circle back to something... I don't want to make it seem like I straight up hate middle class white people (or even white people in higher economic classes) or especially white males. But white male lack of self-awareness is something that does drive me nuts. Especially when white males start preaching or lecturing down or straight up complaining about others. But, all that aside, your comment on the rising trend of suicide does get to me too. Not knowing the statistics at all, my gut says the mental health pandemic and suicides hit white males the hardest. Mental health has been so stigmatized for so lung, it sucks that they're not able to recognize and seek or get the help they probably so often need. But then... is that a self-feeding circle? If you get/seek help, does that make you SAWFT? I don't think it does, but that notion seems to have been bred into our cores for so long now. I doubt it'll ever be reversed at a magnitude that'll help on a population level.

I guess all in all, here's where I'm at: fuck worrying about everyone else, focus on you and your own, do your best and don't sweat the rest. Having a code or at least being able to recognize what you value helps drive your thinking and actions as you grind your way through life, and a little bit of gratitude and mindfulness goes a long way toward making the grind enjoyable. Don't impose on others, but don't let others impose upon you if it's an unwelcome imposition. Treat others as you'd want to be treated if you've gotta deal with people... and in the end, remember none of it matters because we're all just cosmic dust and not even a blink in the broad expanse of space and time.

So... I agree, disagree, commented, and look forward to the next entry because they are thought-provoking. I will abstain from ignoring or placing you on my ignore list, but I do reserve my right to urinate on my Nephew's grave.

And this is just in response to the OP. I see there are a lot of other posts already that I'll need to eventually get caught up on.

Mar 31, 2021 5:25:12 GMT iNCY said:

I equally despise the commonly used business speak that goes like this:



I can actually see what people were getting at, which is that if you're going to fail at something do it quickly.
What it has become instead is throw as much shit at the wall as you can and see what sticks.
This is the methodology that drives the OPM industry (Other Peoples Money) people play loose and fast while other people bankroll their startups.
But Silicon Valley has created more craters than rockets in its time by a fair margin.

I don't want to be that guy, despite the fact that I already am...
But I think these words turned out to summarise the shakeout that is currently happening in Silicon Valley.

Alright boys, it has been fun, but as the liberal poster here, I am gonna have to lock this thread down <.<

///

The tech bubble bursting we talked about in the WSB threads over two years ago. EVERYONE seen this coming. People having to work from home will engage with things like Netflix, Spotify, Zoom and likely be on social media while working. Once people had to go back to the office, it should have been presumed that engagement would rapidly drop. And when engagement drops, so should ad sales prices, as they are priced based on engagement.

All these groups screaming economic doom are BS. They got a massive windfall from the pandemic and presumed it would never end. Now the good times are over, they act like they are shocked.

Tesla was the odd man out, but that stock was never priced rationally, and simply corrected to it's pre WSB price.

For people who remember the WSB stuff, Citadel, the hedge fund that WSB was fighting with for shorting Gamestop, made 16 billion last year, which included shorting all the WSB stuff, and now is the most successful hedge fund ever.  The people who got out at the peak of WSB made bank, everyone else got royally fucked.

Jan 24, 2023 15:19:26 GMT c said:

Alright boys, it has been fun, but as the liberal poster here, I am gonna have to lock this thread down <.<

To be fair the containment was a complete failure :lol:

Jan 24, 2023 15:19:26 GMT c said:

Alright boys, it has been fun, but as the liberal poster here, I am gonna have to lock this thread down

"The" Liberal? As in One of you?
OT is like watching The View... And you will always be my Whoopi 😍

Jan 24, 2023 22:12:02 GMT @admin said:

Jan 24, 2023 15:19:26 GMT c said:

Alright boys, it has been fun, but as the liberal poster here, I am gonna have to lock this thread down <.<

To be fair the containment was a complete failure :lol:

It was to contain my rambling views on a variety of subjects, not to contain all my scintillating and insightful comments to one thread, that would be a crime.

Any thread I post in is objectively not a failure.

Jan 24, 2023 22:51:06 GMT iNCY said:

Jan 24, 2023 22:12:02 GMT @admin said:

To be fair the containment was a complete failure :lol:

It was to contain my rambling views on a variety of subjects, not to contain all my scintillating and insightful comments to one thread, that would be a crime.

Any thread I post in is objectively not a failure.

Bring your nerdy ass ways into the Whatcha Gettin Whatcha Nerding thread occasionally then. My heart breaks a little everytime that weekly thread fails some.

Jan 25, 2023 0:52:55 GMT Foos said:

Jan 24, 2023 22:51:06 GMT iNCY said:

It was to contain my rambling views on a variety of subjects, not to contain all my scintillating and insightful comments to one thread, that would be a crime.

Any thread I post in is objectively not a failure.

Bring your nerdy ass ways into the Whatcha Gettin Whatcha Nerding thread occasionally then. My heart breaks a little everytime that weekly thread fails some.

Hey, I brought up a couple of things that could have been discussed more in length but nobody took the bait.  :ugh:

Jan 25, 2023 2:35:36 GMT iron maiden said:

Jan 25, 2023 0:52:55 GMT Foos said:

Bring your nerdy ass ways into the Whatcha Gettin Whatcha Nerding thread occasionally then. My heart breaks a little everytime that weekly thread fails some.

Hey, I brought up a couple of things that could have been discussed more in length but nobody took the bait. 

And that's appreciated! I try not to dominate the thread with my opinions and thoughts. It's a tricky balancing act - try to promote discussion, yet not bombard people with my thoughts only. 

I appreciate your thoughts, buddy.

And now I'm off to bed because I haven't slept since 9pm last night. Yay for all night work nights!

I don't want to clog up the other thread and it's rabid advancement of Socialism as the medicine to cure all ills, so I am taking my bat and ball to my own thread....

Maybe I mentioned this, maybe I didn't but it has been with me for a long time.
This image unleashed hell when it was posted on Twitter:




Apparently it is deeply offensive because it disregards the work/life balance of employees.
I on the other hand read that and think, "Hell yeah" I would like to work there, because I am a sadist....


Here's the thing though...  
You can go get a job as a solicitor in a strip mall marking lot, work 9-5, coach little league and be home for dinner every night and live a good life.
If you want to make Mid-to-High 6-Figures then you need to be exceptional....

To make more than the pack you need to be the exception not the rule.

This got me thinking more deeply than I might have in the past.
I would have said that everyone should seek a profession where they can create value, but I think this variable of "value" is too nebulous and too hard to pin down.
Instead, I would rather focus on what is your "Flavour" that you can bring to your work (Cue the 90 R&B Song)
We all need to find a place where we can bring our flavour and have it valued and rewarded.
I am aware, that this doesn't always translate into the creation of wealth, but our flavour might be our empathy, or our work ethic, or our focus on details.
What is the thing that we are going to bring and double-down on until there is nothing left.

Personally, I have been giving this some thought and over various roles I have brought the following:

Creativity: I will solve the problem and I won't rest until I do, the more impossible the problem the harder I work.
Inspiration: I may not be a good leader, but in terms of providing inspiration I do pretty well.
Continuous Improvement - I never settle for the way things are no matter how long they have been accepted to be that way.

So it would be pointless for me to take a job that rewarded the following:
Rule Adherence: I will NOT follow your rules and processes unless it makes sense to do so.
Menial Tasks: I will not do something that doesn't bring us closer to our goals.
Documentation: Please don't ask me to explain my chaos.

Based on these criteria I do not think I am terribly placed in my choice of employment.
The first and most important skill of personal growth is an almost forensic and unflinching analysis of the self.

I agree with you in that if one wants above average compensation they need to put in above average effort but that's about where it stops with that graphic.

2) the customer is absolutely *not* always right; all the moreso in a field where the customer is paying for your specific knowledge they are relying on YOU to be right, not them. for example, if i bring my car to the shop when the check engine light goes off, i do want them to fix it, yes -- assuming the repair is not absurdly expensive. i don't want them to nod and say yessir, go to work and surprise here's the final bill which is three times the value of my 24-year old car, i am relying on their expertise and knowledge base i lack to make a judgment call to tell me if it's worth the repair. in this case the powerpoint slide is for a high-powered legal firm. i would ABSOLUTELY expect the firm to call me out if i'm asking for something i didn't realize was illegal or could open me up to further litigation down the line, not have them say yessir and get a nasty surprise down the line and their explanation was well the customer is always right so we didn't want to challenge you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

8) is also completely ridiculous. i am a resource for younger coworkers, or even colleagues at the same level where we all possess slightly different skillsets and experiences. would i ever want to hear 'oh, i didn't want to bother you so that's why i took half an hour to look up the solution' for something i could have explained in two minutes? that's an utter waste of time. plus the ending line, 'still can't figure it out? ask your classmates' (IOW don't bother me) which is not someone i'd feel comfortable working for. especially as it pertains to (4), you want everything delivered to the client perfectly and yesterday and i'm not supposed to ask you for your help/experience to make this happen? what do you even do here then?

May 31, 2023 2:47:26 GMT Michinokudriver said:

I agree with you in that if one wants above average compensation they need to put in above average effort but that's about where it stops with that graphic.

2) the customer is absolutely *not* always right; all the moreso in a field where the customer is paying for your specific knowledge they are relying on YOU to be right, not them. for example, if i bring my car to the shop when the check engine light goes off, i do want them to fix it, yes -- assuming the repair is not absurdly expensive. i don't want them to nod and say yessir, go to work and surprise here's the final bill which is three times the value of my 24-year old car, i am relying on their expertise and knowledge base i lack to make a judgment call to tell me if it's worth the repair. in this case the powerpoint slide is for a high-powered legal firm. i would ABSOLUTELY expect the firm to call me out if i'm asking for something i didn't realize was illegal or could open me up to further litigation down the line, not have them say yessir and get a nasty surprise down the line and their explanation was well the customer is always right so we didn't want to challenge you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

8) is also completely ridiculous. i am a resource for younger coworkers, or even colleagues at the same level where we all possess slightly different skillsets and experiences. would i ever want to hear 'oh, i didn't want to bother you so that's why i took half an hour to look up the solution' for something i could have explained in two minutes? that's an utter waste of time. plus the ending line, 'still can't figure it out? ask your classmates' (IOW don't bother me) which is not someone i'd feel comfortable working for. especially as it pertains to (4), you want everything delivered to the client perfectly and yesterday and i'm not supposed to ask you for your help/experience to make this happen? what do you even do here then?

You might be reading more into what is a broad guide.

My impression was that they were trying to imply that for $850 an hour you fix the customer's problem.
If that means to you need to say X to the customer and do Y to get the best result, that's what you do and explain how afterwards.

I have lost my shit in meetings when there is an item on the Todo list and it is something like, Tom last week you were going to phone Phil about this issue how did you go?
Tom: Well I called and he didn't answer so I sent him a text
Phil: Okay, so shall I put down you will call him again?

I have numerous times crashed a meeting by asking if we are paid to send text messages or to solve problems.
This seems to be the attitude that they are pushing, same with 8 you can ask a colleague but don't report back to your superior or client that it is too hard...
I mean if you want to get paid 500k per year, it is fair enough.

In the context of this example, those individuals are highly intelligent people and thus, the ability to solve problems and find information when they don't know or understand something is, and should be a given.

---

I've had people in the past come to me for advice on whether they should step up and take a bigger role and with everyone I've spoken to, I've said the same thing:

You'll make more money. That's fantastic. But there's a commitment that will be asked of you. You will have to sacrifice. And there will be expectations.

If you're willing to give up some free time potentially, be available 24/7 in some way shape or form and committed to putting the business first above everything else - you'll do great.

But understand the commitment first before signing on the dotted line. For if anything, to avoid a painful conversation in a few months where either you're not being the expectations or you've grown to hate those expectations.

Work/life balance, family, 'you time' should be considered in all decision making.