So, after loving Persona 5 and the South Parks after a lifetime of not being a turnbased fan (I prefer complete control over my wins and losses), I thought I was ready for Nocturne...I wasn't ready.

After the first couple areas, going fine, enjoying myself, missing the quality of life improvements of P5, but still having some decent fun figuring the game out. After a couple short areas it happens...THE MATADOR.

This guy is just this side impossible if you don't know what you need, when I walked in blind, I could do literally nothing, tore right through me. So, I do a little research, and a few hours later, I think I've built a team custom to fuck his world up. And sure enough, marching him down, he can't hurt me now...then he kicks into phase two and promptly rapes me in the face. Nothing but a power charge to Andalucia, which promptly rips my entire team to shreds; takes a few turns as I desperately try to keep them alive, but no chance. So I'll need to do more research and more grinding to build up the buffs/debuffs I need to survive long enough to win.

So insanely early into the game, there's no way to be prepared unless you know exactly what you need, natural game progression and not even be close. You have to beat him to progress, so...I may be done.

Wow lets go RagnarokMike , playing SMT 3 Nocturne!

What difficulty are you attempting him on? Hard or Normal? Either way bring a zan absorbing or reflecting monster for PHASE 1, equip on yourself the magatama that nulls Zan/wind spells too. Phase 2 at this point you have to had spammed Sukukaja or buff spells on yourself only as IIRC he uses Dekunda to remove it off himself if you spam debuff on him.

Remember in these games, you can use a grand total of FOUR buff/debuff spells before the game tells you LIMIT REACHED. I had on with me a Nozuichi(The big elephant nose thing) who is important as he drains zan, a Sodama and I forget the 4th demon who I had with me. Cannot bring any weak to zan as he will feast for more turns and draining or nulling his takes off 2 of his 4 turns which is big. Nozuichi learns Rakukaja and evolves into a super useful monster, advise using him if you can get him. He's legit in the same area as where Matador appears. Usually, the game puts monsters intentionally there that are both good and bad vs upcoming bosses in the same area, take that for what you will.

With him it's buffing your side more than debuffing him, particularly evasion skills are so important in this game. Matador isn't so bad by exploiting this but I agree with you on a pure blind run, he is the guy who tells the player how this game is going to go.

I would dedicate main character on being the buff, have one dedicated healer and two guys who can go after him. I am playing on Normal on my 2nd run with this game but I even had to grind to like level 16 or 17 to get him and took like an hour to get the necessary skill on a monster like Nozuichi, no shame in this!

Only on normal, I couldn't even fathom hard.

I got right through the Matador today, farmed up a level to get a debuff on my main, and mixed up another demon with a couple buff/debuffs of their own. Falling back into a groove, starting enjoy self, BAM. Fucking RAIDOU. I was literally on my last try before quitting the game forever when the RNG gods finally pulled their balls off my forehead, had a team with just the right resistances and solid buff/debuffs, but he'd just go into his second phase and Makoi boomerang me into oblivion, always nullifying at least one buff/debuff a turn. Just fuuuuck you. Every few bosses has me questioning my conviction to finishing, and reminds me why I've generally hated turn based, just so much chance that always I always seem to fall on the wrong side of. Keeping with it so far...but definitely not buying in like I did Persona 5(Royal). Don't see myself being urged to return to this one.

Jun 1, 2021 6:08:39 GMT RagnarokMike said:

So, after loving Persona 5 and the South Parks after a lifetime of not being a turnbased fan (I prefer complete control over my wins and losses), I thought I was ready for Nocturne...I wasn't ready.

After the first couple areas, going fine, enjoying myself, missing the quality of life improvements of P5, but still having some decent fun figuring the game out. After a couple short areas it happens...THE MATADOR.

This guy is just this side impossible if you don't know what you need, when I walked in blind, I could do literally nothing, tore right through me. So, I do a little research, and a few hours later, I think I've built a team custom to fuck his world up. And sure enough, marching him down, he can't hurt me now...then he kicks into phase two and promptly rapes me in the face. Nothing but a power charge to Andalucia, which promptly rips my entire team to shreds; takes a few turns as I desperately try to keep them alive, but no chance. So I'll need to do more research and more grinding to build up the buffs/debuffs I need to survive long enough to win.

So insanely early into the game, there's no way to be prepared unless you know exactly what you need, natural game progression and not even be close. You have to beat him to progress, so...I may be done.

Nocturne is insanely hard.  

Jun 2, 2021 4:30:45 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Only on normal, I couldn't even fathom hard.

I got right through the Matador today, farmed up a level to get a debuff on my main, and mixed up another demon with a couple buff/debuffs of their own. Falling back into a groove, starting enjoy self, BAM. Fucking RAIDOU. I was literally on my last try before quitting the game forever when the RNG gods finally pulled their balls off my forehead, had a team with just the right resistances and solid buff/debuffs, but he'd just go into his second phase and Makoi boomerang me into oblivion, always nullifying at least one buff/debuff a turn. Just fuuuuck you. Every few bosses has me questioning my conviction to finishing, and reminds me why I've generally hated turn based, just so much chance that always I always seem to fall on the wrong side of. Keeping with it so far...but definitely not buying in like I did Persona 5(Royal). Don't see myself being urged to return to this one.

Yeah evasion buff or debuffs are huge for bosses like that, it's all about having them miss turns. Especially for later fiend fights, this is paramount. I have taken down 6 of the 11 thus far. 

Make sure you fight the 2nd fiend as soon as you can, very important because you want to earn the ability to fuse that demon down the road because he is massively overpowered for the mid to near late game.

I've already gotten the first 3 fiends (Matador, Hell Rider, and Daisoujou), and cleared the second Kalpa. Got as far as the Ikebukuro Tunnel and beat the first of the 4 demons (Kin-Ki) there before calling it a day (along with clearing the map). Actually built a pretty stacked main squad now, pulling 'em out for the big fights while leveling others to get out their powers while clearing floors. My main squad is me at level 42 (mainly a strength/agility build), that little bitch the Matator, Eligor, and an Arahabaki all powers unlocked for the lot, with a decent bit of buffs, debuffs, and added abilities (from fusing and evolving) to round things out well. Eligor really did me a favor today, leveling a diarama to mediarma, I always clench when I actually take that chance (some I don't, my Xuanwu is exactly right, for when I need buffs and debuffs against Ice weaknessess) as it screwed me over with Arahabaki getting rid of its healing ability...but kind of sour patched kids'd me for the it today. Then I got High Pixie and Uzume in the wings for healing between fights.

Still not sure about returning, as I'm not really drawing anything off the characters or story, but I'm at least at a point where it's been a while since something truly pissed me off, just some of the dungeons were a bit tedious, like the mirage prison. Though it's always been the fiends to actually do it, so I'm assuming these Riders are going to when I finally get to them.

Holy shit progress progress! did you at least go to the 3rd kalpa to unlock the cutscene to trigger out the next 4 fiend fights. Love you going for the true ending, get the most content out of the game!

Your past the toughest part of the game, Nocturne isn't so much hard once you grasp the buff/debuff game and get past the first 5 or so hours of the game. FUSE DAISOUJOU if you can, I know he's level 37 but he has Meditation which zaps hp AND mp, the latter is important as it abuses the 4 demons in the cave and prevents them from doing extra turns. He also has prayer which heals full hp for the party and cures all status ailments minus curse for the MC. I still use him and I am just before the lategame of Nocturne.

Arahabaki is amazing because he nulls physical attacks and some of the nasty instant KO magic though he will give free turns for a majority of basic magic. I used him also in that part. Matador is pretty good, Red Capote is a nasty exclusive skill for him and his agility is stupid good so he always goes first and can make enemies miss.

You got this game down, def. want 1-2 healers who ride the bench and heal the party.

The story gets much better as it progresses, the game expands in different paths and all the characters you meet without spoiling go their own way. Game is pretty deep in regards to the story, a lot of philosophical concepts. Stillness, recreation, world geared to survival of the fittest. Don't want to spoil too much. Story will get better by the next area your going to, you meet one of the most craziest characters in the game.

Four Horsemen will make you work even on normal.

Does Blindy know this game off by heart or something? What the helllllll

Jun 4, 2021 16:01:43 GMT Emperor said:

Does Blindy know this game off by heart or something? What the helllllll

I was where Rags was this past weekend! That and I absolutely love this game.

(Play it Emperor !)
Speaking of SMT, SMT V has been leaked to be a mid November 2021(!) release game, that's Day one. Hoping it runs good on OG Nintendo Switch.

Well...fuck.

I was THIIIIIIS close to coming here with happy tidings today, insomniac day where I couldn't sleep, so I played the living fuck out of that game today. And I gotta say, I've setting nicely into quite an OP build, my main main that isn't the main has been a maxed out Hell Biker, great buffs and top level has base attack hit everybody. Finally maxed Daisoujou, and traded my Arahabaki in for a Dionisius (after registering Arahabaki of course) whom I'm now working on maxing. Hell Biker is my, quite fittingly, ride or die, then I mix up between Matador and Eligor with Daisoujou for the tough fights.

Then today, I cracked "Refill Mana" on my main, who already had Mediarama and Diarahan, so my support healers a pretty superfluous at this point. I walked through the Riders. Got through the 3rd Kulpa. Beat that bitch ass Raidou my first try, though it was my one actual trial of the day. And then...I used Tornado (my strongest move) on TWO enemies with deflect (that I mistook for anyother without), killing me instantly, losing everything after the clearing the basic map of the 3rd kulpa (heading down to Raidou's domain). So tomorrow, I get to do all that bullshit again, and hope I can crack Raidou in one again, as he came dangerously close to ending me there (started peeling my team off in one shots), the only close shave I had of the day...other than killing myself. I beat everybody today...including me. That's the danger on no sleep gaming, one set of birds just looks like another set of birds, but one will fucking kill you if you use Tornado.

Just...fuck. 

Jun 5, 2021 5:19:26 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Well...fuck.

I was THIIIIIIS close to coming here with happy tidings today, insomniac day where I couldn't sleep, so I played the living fuck out of that game today. And I gotta say, I've setting nicely into quite an OP build, my main main that isn't the main has been a maxed out Hell Biker, great buffs and top level has base attack hit everybody. Finally maxed Daisoujou, and traded my Arahabaki in for a Dionisius (after registering Arahabaki of course) whom I'm now working on maxing. Hell Biker is my, quite fittingly, ride or die, then I mix up between Matador and Eligor with Daisoujou for the tough fights.

Then today, I cracked "Refill Mana" on my main, who already had Mediarama and Diarahan, so my support healers a pretty superfluous at this point. I walked through the Riders. Got through the 3rd Kulpa. Beat that bitch ass Raidou my first try, though it was my one actual trial of the day. And then...I used Tornado (my strongest move) on TWO enemies with deflect (that I mistook for anyother without), killing me instantly, losing everything after the clearing the basic map of the 3rd kulpa (heading down to Raidou's domain). So tomorrow, I get to do all that bullshit again, and hope I can crack Raidou in one again, as he came dangerously close to ending me there (started peeling my team off in one shots), the only close shave I had of the day...other than killing myself. I beat everybody today...including me. That's the danger on no sleep gaming, one set of birds just looks like another set of birds, but one will fucking kill you if you use Tornado.

Just...fuck. 

I took down Kalpa 3 yesterday night but I want to do Kalpa 3-5 all relatively close rather than finish an Kalpa, then be forced to leave and have to replay (some) of the previous Kalpa to get back where I am at. I took down all the fiends and near endgame. Glad to see you rocking Daisoujou, he's going to make life easier for you with the amount of resistances he has and his outstanding support healing. 

Kalpa 4 is absolutely nasty IIRC, would advise going there at the level your at. Save the frustration later in the game but MAKE SURE you do all the Kalpa before you touch the final dungeon, you will notice a change of the overmap with the theme(Great theme) as the tell. That is if you want the True Demon Path ending which it looks like your also going to do. 

The final fiend gave me fits last night, the gimmick behind it is a cool one but still sorta flawed. Will comment once you get to him or throw it in the retro thread once I finish the game. 

Speaking of all 5 of the Kalpa's down! Lets go, main story progress here on out. Loads of spoilers on these two nasty Kalpas since Ragnarokmike is grinding it out for the True Demon Ending like a boss.

SPOILER: Click to show

Kalpa 4 was as bad as I remembered it to be...

Two notorious cursed corridors that drain your health and set you up in most circumstances to get wasted by the high level enemies. An annoying gimmick that has you run into a vortex during different moon phases to get useful treasures or items/start sidequests/progress through. A boss that if you have no idea what your doing can 1 shot you with his dead Death Flies attack that is 100% mudo/instant KO if it hits, yes it's Beelzebub, infamous Lord of the Flies and Lucifer's right hand man.



On hard difficulty on my 1st playthrough this sonofabitch gave me fits, especially after you go through so much to even get to him and for him to just destroy you in one move was demoralizing. You have to have death prevention and it is expected you beat the optional BLACK FROST HEE HO boss that is a hidden. Black Frost is a bad, bad man who gave me a decent fight when I took him ages ago but yeah. The Satan Magatama is priceless and is a must for this fight. I didn't have too much of a problem with Beelzebub, with the right strategy and 4 demons who null death, you can take him. He cannot remove your buffs so you can power/agility/defense your way through him.

The backtracking to fully finish Kalpa 4 was as bad as I remember this. I have zero shame in using a guide to figure the order to do it, I don't blame you at all Rags if you use it.

This is the order the game expects you to progress through Kalpa 4:

After defeating Beelzebub, enter the door to the north and get 66,666 Macca from the Cache Cube. Get the items from the three Mystical Chests as well.
When you are ready, go back outside and walk south. Get Deathstone from the Cache Cube to the northeast and talk to the Mothman to learn about the Star Key.
Afterwards, head to the Second Kalpa and talk to the Ifrit at the end of the previously cursed corridor.
Next, travel to Ginza and head to Nyx’s Lounge. Talk to Loki. Afterwards, travel to Asakusa and talk to the Collector Manikin to get the Star Key.
Travel to the Third Kalpa B1F and south to the door (use the Star Key to unlock it) and jump down the hole. You should find a switch to open the locked door in the Fourth Kalpa.
Travel to the Fourth Kalpa and wait for the Kagutsuchi phase to become an odd number before going in.
Head down the slope path and enter the portal. In the next area, climb down the ladder and move further at the end of the corridor.

I can imagine how a relative newcomer to JRPGs, especially older ones must feel about doing something like this. This is more barbaric than SNES ones There's an old man you speak with that you have to know that you wait 3 minutes at a decision he asks you before you agree, if you do it too soon, he takes it as disrespect and doesn't let you in :rofl:

Thank goodness for the Picasa(I believe) that the shady broker sells you in Kalpa 1, my lord keep that and then some!

I took Beelzebub down at I want to say level 62, feel even on Normal difficulty that's underleveled but hey smarts pay the hell off.

So Kalpa 5 after all of that nonsense to get to it is a cool one, it's a small one but you are welcomed right away with either Dante of Devil May Cry or the guy Rags and I get which comes with the game and isn't 9.99 DLC, Raidou Kuznuoha the 14th of the underrated Devil Summoner series! An old 1930's Japanese detective who combats demons and explores the paranormal along with his talking cat and commands an army of demons. I played the 2nd one, I want to say Raidou vs King Abaddon and it was a really good game! Def. a revisit.



LEVEL 80 RAIDOU FTW! Oh my god, this guy is a badass. He critical'd the living hell out of the final boss of the Labyrinth of Amala who I will get to in a second.



And to top it off, I ventured back prior to enterting Kalpa 5 and got the BLACK FROST HEE HO! Drains ice, fire, strong to physical attacks and nulls both holy and mudo/death spells. Lets go. Level 66 too because why not?

Having two demons in my party who are higher level than me is insane, especially when the game tells you that you cannot fuse demons that are higher level than you so these are big, big deals. In addition, the very first demon you make friends with and joins your party and is vital in the 1st boss fight vs Forneus makes her triumph return:



A "Super" Pixie who has 30 stats all around which is dominant and ever vital to progress in the 5th Kalpa as doors are locked and can KO the demon being offered purely off hitting 25 or 30 in one stat, which essentially Pixie saves the day and lets you fight the final boss of the Kalpas below.......



Motherfuckin' Metatron, the fallen angel. I don't remember him giving me as many fits as Beelzebub did in my 1st run of the game but boy this guy is a HP tank and without using Dekaja/taking his buffs off, this guy can pop you good with severe almighty spells that can shed off half health, even more with fully powered magic. He took me like 20 minutes to drop and keep in mind I was only level 63 on this fight but I had a level 66 Black Frost & level 80 Raidou and it took an absolute class strategy and the right use of heals courtesy of the other demon who killed it in my first(and now second) run, Mr Black Rider and his null of both death and light magic. He had Prayer and would MP Drain Metatron when his HP was low, Black Forst popped good ol Mabufudyne and Raidou would often critical with one of his special attacks and Demi-Fiend/MC would buff,debuff and heal when needed and get a couple of punches in. Took all of my dekaja stones as you have to take off his buffs when he stacks em and he also would foil your attempt at buffing yourself but I got him. I was way underleveled but hey you take it and run.

The nastiest spell is what he does in the 2nd half of the fight, say hello to the most broken spell in the game, Debilitate. What is that? Makes your stats diminish and tacks on to debuffs put against your party. Normally you can buff or debuff(Or get debuffed) a max 4 times in SMT, Debilitate tacks onto that and makes your attack, defense, agility and luck worse for the fight until you win or lose. Absolutely nasty spell, and if you can find endgame demons who can learn it, your going to have a real fun time. Not so much vs good ol' Metatron, motherfucker throws that out like hot cakes on you and you cannot remove it worst of all. You have to buff yourself the couple of turns you can until he takes your buff off with one dekaja spell of his own. Add his exclusive Fire of Sinai does the highest almighty damage, something you cannot null or resist, it is what ultima is in Final Fantasy, just nasty damage.



(This Metatron remix is fire)

Both bosses get their own freaking music for the boss fights so yeah they're big deals. You get to fuse them too IIRC but both are like high 80's, level 90ish so not happening :rofl:

Beelzebub's purpose is of pure chaos and to guide the demon to lead Lucifer's army of a rise of demons from hell but is thwarted by Demi-Fiend who takes no directions from nobody and will mold the new world of what he wants.

Metatron who speaks to you as a voice from the gods earlier in the diabolical labyrinth tells you to leave and begone and to not lose your last sense of humanity in this post-apocalyptic world but is angered as you come to the very end of the labyrinth and he comes forth to stop you from becoming the true, very demon that will take control of the world. The one who brought all the menorahs from the downed fiends that were tests to mold the true demon that is the main character.

[/spoiler]
With all of that done, I can presume with a overpowered couple of demons who should carry me through to the final dungeon. Big big deal to get through the optional content.

Thankfully the game showed mercy for my mistake, and Raidou didn't do that one hit kill he was bombarding me with last night, so I pretty much walked through him, finishing the 3rd Kalpa (well, except the stat check doors). Also finished up the final rider, which means two more fiends to the fourth Kalpa, which I'll hit tomorrow, as I finished up to clearing Yoyogi on the day, with the next fiend only spawning afterwards. Also took out that literal penis Mara, well, Mara took its damn self out. Really glad I decided to fuse up Dionysus, his group reflect ability and some lowering of defense had it obliterate itself with a Hades Blast, which is good, because it had thoroughly handed me my ass the first two attempts (not knowing Hades Blast counted as "physical").

Really, my mains have sort of settled into MC (now lvl 60), Hell Biker, Dionysus, and the Matador, with Daisoujou swapping in for critical fights (except Girimehkala, where he's basically useless, not being equipped with anything offensive aside from his basic physical attack). So, probably going to stick rolling with that until I level up to fuse some of the more interesting/powerful demons. Definitely settled into a groove on the game, just unlocked Samaracarm on my main, so no more double dipping on revival beads and healing if someone critical gets taken out mid-fight.

Curious your thoughts on the 9th fiend fight, your going through this nicely. That Girimehkala fight is pretty rough on hard if you don't have magic dealers from what I remember, he becomes a bit of a grind in itself of a fight.

Pale Rider is a rough fight, especially when his minions debilitate & self destruct. By far the hardest of the four horsemen.

You are definitely overleveled for that portion of the game, I want to say I was in my 50's for that portion of the game. Waited on the 3rd Kalpa though. But that's very good, you should be hanging in there for the next major fights if not doing well.

And I have to correct myself on my last post, I am dead smack in front of the final dungeon which I will do all the mandatory boss fights today most likely...........but you have to be at least level 95 to tackle the final boss. So there's no way around, I am at Level 68 right now and will have to grind up quite a bit to get where I need to be. This is why I put the game down on my 1st run, there is so much grinding you have to do. There's a certain skill that can only hurt the true final boss that has to be done a certain, tedious way to have all four of your end end game demons even hurt it.

I have R&C Rift Apart coming this Friday which I stop everything and will play all the way through but I have Wednesday off(Well mostly) so I have a bit of a timer to go after this. I think I can do this.

Trumpeter's a bitch until you learn his move always heals low man, so you can keep him from continually resetting the fight, at which point it's easy. I got past where both the friends have merged with whatever gods they were into, and thought I was going to get through the 4th kalpa, then after fighting Beelz for about 10-15 minutes he hit me with a one shot kill, and looking into it, I've gotta unlock a "void death" if I'm going to have any hope of beating him beyond the pure luck of that move not hitting. So, that's a thing.

Only the Satan magatsuhi will save you from Death Flies. Talk to the guard at the far end of Ikebekurho(sp)/Mantra HQ where the two guards used to be chat with the angel there. Then go to the Ikebekuhro prison and go to the place you fought the giant ice worm.

Cannot beat Beelzebub without it IIRC, all four of you guys must null death. Black Rider rules since he nulls death and light. Daisoujou too, and the fourth can be another attacker or buffer.

Thankfully, already have a Black Rider, think I need one more level to get his last ability, which I'll definitely have by the time I get that "void death" to finish the damn kalpa. Glad that I decided to save after purchasing a stacked Mothman, because that means very little to redo leading up to that fight. Also finally unlocked "mediarahan" for my main, which really helped with the cursed area along with the mana regeneration, especially with a safe (headstone) room about halfway in to run in circles for 15-30 second to top back off. It was a smooth sailing day outside of the time it takes to figure out the Trumpeter and learning that I don't have what I need for Beelzebitch, only losses of the day.

And I really gotta lay off Tornado in questionable situations, at the temple of Amala after beating the dude who constantly takes everyone down to 1 hit, I did it to myself again on the way back to the save point.

Big Pete needs to make a new thread for Blindy and RagnarokMike's discussions of deep Nocturne strategy :lol:

Jun 7, 2021 6:10:16 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Thankfully, already have a Black Rider, think I need one more level to get his last ability, which I'll definitely have by the time I get that "void death" to finish the damn kalpa. Glad that I decided to save after purchasing a stacked Mothman, because that means very little to redo leading up to that fight. Also finally unlocked "mediarahan" for my main, which really helped with the cursed area along with the mana regeneration, especially with a safe (headstone) room about halfway in to run in circles for 15-30 second to top back off. It was a smooth sailing day outside of the time it takes to figure out the Trumpeter and learning that I don't have what I need for Beelzebitch, only losses of the day.

And I really gotta lay off Tornado in questionable situations, at the temple of Amala after beating the dude who constantly takes everyone down to 1 hit, I did it to myself again on the way back to the save point.

Yeah the Kalpas give some really great demons to use who make the main game easier, that Piscasa you get in Kalpa 1 is a godsend in itself with all of the trap floor/darkness/escape a fight/lower RNG encounters goodness attached to it. And Mediaharan is amazing, full healing party, what's there not to like! 

Held off on the Trumpeter fight until you got past it, here is my issue. It is suppose to be every 4 turns he heals lowest participant of the battle, whether it's him or any of you four. Next 4 turns, he instant KO's the lowest HP on the battle......................except that does not apply to him. He will pick on the lowest PERCENTAGE of health, not necessarily lowest health. If Demi-Fiend/MC has taken more damage over Daisoujou but Demi-Fiend still has more HP over Daisoujou, Demi-Fiend is dead because he has sustained more damage regardless. And if everyone's at full health by that point, it's RNG who has to suffer the death blow. It's infuriating in that regard until you sorta pick up on that, kind of wish his death melody impacts himself(Even if he can null it). It makes it that you need to take him down in an 8 turn facet or else he keeps the fight going with the full HP/MP holy melody he does. Such a cool concept, just always felt that part was a little lacking to be honest. Trumpeter is such a cool demon though and the way he meets you pre-fight is just as cool as I remember with both you and him falling downward into hell with him greeting you and all.

All bosses down besides the final two on the True Demon Path, AKA the final boss and optional final boss. Got the ultimate Magatama because I took down 4 secret bosses that I had to look up on how exactly to do it(Gold Trophy for it too!). I am at level 80 but I believe I have to get to level 95 to inherit the necessary skill to have all 4 of my battlers hurt the true final boss. The QOL improvement in the remaster has either Dante or Raidou learn PIERCE which is a beautiful thing and your MC will learn it(Make sure you keep Pierce Rags, if you don't inherit the skill Demi-Fiend/MC is useless). Next 1-2 days will be pure grinding hell.

Locked into the true demon ending now, finished the final kalpa, and boy did they make me pay for gloating about a smooth sailing day, had to beat the first floor of the 5th Kalpa 3 damn times. First time I clear the first floor, get down the ladder, bam, instakilled. So I adjust my strength, this time, just before I get near the ladder, bam, completely different instakilled. 3rd time cleared all but the last floor, and ended up trapping myself with Metatron, as the only way to get out is with a specific demon stat check, and it's a completely different one than to get in (unfortunately didn't know about the Pixie door on that run), so I had to fight the Metatron; fought him for a good 10-15 minutes when suddenly couldn't do a god damn thing, caught in a healing/reviving loop until he ultimately killed me. Pushed me from quitting at 10 to quitting just after midmight, but finally got all the right rotations (ultimately 7 demons aside from the MC) the second go where I had enough buffs and debuffs that when he'd nullify one, I'd build it back up before he could get the other. Jesus fuck is that a long ass boss though, gets to the "JUST DIE ALREADY" point. But finally got the fucker.

On to the Diet Building tomorrow.

Jun 7, 2021 19:50:52 GMT Emperor said:

Big Pete needs to make a new thread for Blindy and RagnarokMike 's discussions of deep Nocturne strategy

Good idea, plus it will help me later on when I dive back into my old save.

Hope you're all cool with this Blindy and RagnarokMike.

Jun 8, 2021 8:05:35 GMT Big Pete said:

Jun 7, 2021 19:50:52 GMT Emperor said:

Big Pete needs to make a new thread for Blindy and RagnarokMike 's discussions of deep Nocturne strategy

Good idea, plus it will help me later on when I dive back into my old save.

Hope you're all cool with this Blindy and RagnarokMike .

Makes me no nevermind, I talks where I talks.

Jun 8, 2021 8:05:35 GMT Big Pete said:

Jun 7, 2021 19:50:52 GMT Emperor said:

Big Pete needs to make a new thread for Blindy and RagnarokMike 's discussions of deep Nocturne strategy

Good idea, plus it will help me later on when I dive back into my old save.

Hope you're all cool with this Blindy and RagnarokMike .

I didn't think that one day we'd get to the point of a Shin Megami Tensei game getting it's own thread and it not being the Persona series but here we are. I am so proud . 

Home stretch, probably one more day to finish a little clean up duty, finished the day just before the second boss on the final tower. Main and Raidou both have "Pierce," Main and Hell Biker both with "Attack All" really smooths up battle, been rolling with those 3, plus whoever's not maxed, but switching in Black Rider or Arahabaki on bosses, depending on if I need damage or buffs. As much as I hated fighting him, god damn is Raidou an asset, Hell Biker with Tetraja and Sukunda, I was dropping damn near 1500 shots from one of his moves.

Jun 9, 2021 5:07:08 GMT RagnarokMike said:

Home stretch, probably one more day to finish a little clean up duty, finished the day just before the second boss on the final tower. Main and Raidou both have "Pierce," Main and Hell Biker both with "Attack All" really smooths up battle, been rolling with those 3, plus whoever's not maxed, but switching in Black Rider or Arahabaki on bosses, depending on if I need damage or buffs. As much as I hated fighting him, god damn is Raidou an asset, Hell Biker with Tetraja and Sukunda, I was dropping damn near 1500 shots from one of his moves.

Your really close to the finish but yeah you may soon embark on the grind I am currently doing. MC/Demi-Fiend is currently level 86, so 9 more levels to get the good stuff for all four of my guys to wipe the true final boss out.

How are you in regards to collected Magatama? There are some side bosses that can allow you to get all the Magatama, which includes a secret optional dungeon and by beating the four dieties, allows you to get the best magatama ever. Think you told me you got a strength build, there's a really sick endgame skill you learn from one of the third row magatamas called "Freikugel" that scales and does damage based off strength stat(I am the full 40 so you can imagine how great this is).

And the game has been beaten. Granted I did this on normal and not hard but I took the original final boss down in five minutes, no lies the cutscenes lasted longer than the fight. Level 90 MC by the end, way too overpowered for that chump.

And the true final boss? Took me like 10 minutes altogether. No need to grind too crazy Rags honestly, just have Raidou and MC with pierce be the attackers(Make sure you get Freikugel it legit shredded this bum), and I had both Gabriel & Raphael as the debilitators(Remember when I said this is a broken spell earlier?), they got him clean with the full stat debuff within 2 turns which led to him getting popped. He has some nice tricks like Root of Evil and all but honestly, I had both archangels with prayer and he could not do anything. At worst he killed one of the two archangels, I brought em back the same turn and went about it again.

I know on HARD(I don't think there is a normal mode in the PS2 emulation version) it's much tougher but I was going to grind to level 95 to get this guy, not even necessary.

What a game regardless. I was unbeatable by the very end. Absolutely gave Lucifier his ass on his plate. True Demon Path, always. Finally the game has been defeated, been one that haunted me for a while.

Jesus suffering fuck, Lucifer is a prime example of what I hate about turn based games, your success is based entirely on the whims of the game. First time, after a hard fought battle that I was owning basically every second of, he decided to be impossible, rapid spawned dekaja and dekunda to wipe my buffs/debuffs, and despite getting a couple back on, still obliterated my (entirely full) lifebar in just one turn on his 100th "root of all evil" following by pointing attack, which was ALWAYS critical that run. Next time, he didn't do that bullshit, and I wiped the floor with him.

Also, son of a bitch, I did all that grinding not knowing if I was ever going to play again, get past the luck stat check door...and there's a "Neutral" door hidden back there, and I was a long way off neutral, so there was ONE door in the entire game I didn't manage to open (well, unless there were some I didn't see, feel like I thoroughly cleared every map). I know there's not even anything particularly rewarding behind that door, but I still wanted to open it, damn it.

Either way, think I thoroughly saw everything the True Demon route has to offer, only thing I didn't finish was the compendium and maxing stats/magatamas. Honestly, wish it had a more giving NG+, if it was just something like your character keeps his equipped moves, or you keep your money so you can hit the compendium, just some thing where it doesn't feel like starting completely over, I'd have been more likely to return. Not ruling it out completely, but ultimately, I never quite changed my view on the story...the narrative was fine, but it really never gave a reason to care about anybody or their views. Maybe should have built up a bit more, basically just "Hi, friends." "Bye friends." "Now we're not friends." It was an enjoyable game, it's a pity it was a more of a port than a remaster, a few quality of life fixes could have done wonders; wort part about Lucifer was doing all the dialog for him and the whole first boss over.

You guys have been talking combat strategy non-stop.

What's the story like in Nocturne? Any side activities like social links in Persona, or is it a pure dungeon barrage?

Jun 10, 2021 9:34:06 GMT Emperor said:

You guys have been talking combat strategy non-stop.

What's the story like in Nocturne? Any side activities like social links in Persona, or is it a pure dungeon barrage?

Pure dungeon crawler, only thing you build up (through combat) are direct character stats (Strength, Magic, Vitality, Agility, and, least importantly, luck), while leveling up demons to unlock their full potential. Then you have what are called "magatamas," which is how you unlock, up to 10 (replaceable), moves for your main character, while they also offer buffs in combat (like nullifying a specific element, so it'll then do 0 damage; and you can adjust them at any time when not in combat). 

As far as combat, not sure about the earlier Personas, but Persona 5 definitely didn't prepare me much for it, aside from many of the core mechanics, and even names for things, being the same. This game's buffs and debuffs are mandatory to even have a shot at many bosses, Matador is basically invincible if you can't debuff his evasion, as his Red Capote instantly maxes it out, and makes him untouchable. And it's incredibly early in the game, it's basically the sink or swim tutorial on how you need to use buffs and debuffs, which you may not even have at the time if you don't know you're going to need them...I sure didn't. Took me an hour or two to finally fuse and grind a team to finally take him down. And by the end, that's actually one of the easiest bosses, but once you masters buffing/debuffing, it becomes a much more manageable game; but being a turn based RPG, you're still at the whims of the RNG gods...and they're a petty spiteful lot.

The story is incredibly sparse in comparison to Persona 5, just every few dungeons you'll get a character to pontificate about their specific goal, then they move on while you go back to clearing the next area. A bit more dense in closing, especially going for the True Demon ending, but still nowhere near the constant character interaction of Persona.