So they've always told us that the ring is unforgiving. It ain't a trampoline, pal. Bumps are no joke. Especially dat ring apron. It's made of mauled baby parts, glass and hatred. So it's like wrestling on the ground with slight give. Okay sure, then why are we supposed to freak out and consider it extra dangerous when moves are done on the outside. Jake DDTing Ricky on the floor for instance. Even still I always love any spot where they are intentionally exposing the ground by removing the nearby mats. It's basically the internet era's exposing the turnbuckle. A lotta effort to set up and never looks good.

Hell, I even liked when Chris Hero would roll them into a matburrito and then do a senton on them. Even though it makes no sense as the padding BY DESIGN is cushioning the bump. The 2007 Super Athlete may have been my favorite era of Hero. Weird that he never reached that top spot. Maybe he's better at training. Sure he had that never ending PWG title run, but they never got behind him in ROH as the guy and by time he went to NXT it was clear it wasn't happening. Was it him or management?

So topic... Chris Hero?

Love the analogy of exposing the concrete being the internet era's removing the turnbuckle pad.

I think we should ask System whether he'd prefer to flat back on a ring or cement.

Hate to burst @ness bubble but pulling up the mats to expose the concrete floor is not a new thing. It's been around since I started watching in the late 80s. It happened in numerous Hogan matches!

On a similar note, I went to a 2014 ROH show with a Tomasso Ciampa vs. Cedric Alexander street fight where they pulled up the actual ring canvas. Nothing but wood underneath that thin layer of canvas. Have to admit it gave me a newfound respect for the folks who do this for a living. 

Aug 22, 2021 0:51:08 GMT @ness said:

So topic... Chris Hero?

Couldn't stand him! One of my least favorite wrestlers of the early-mid 2000s and on my short list of most boring wrestlers to ever exist.

*With the caveat that I've only seen like three Chris Hero matches after 2006. I heard he got better. And I'm sure that's true.

But Chris Hero was THE WORST when I watched a lot of indie wrestling in the early-mid 2000s. Every Hero match in those days was filled with lots and lots of superfluous mat wrestling while going at least twice as long as necessary. Hero seemed simply incapable of going under 20 minutes in his IWA Mid South days. 

Hero's IWA-MS series with PW favorite CM Punk remains the greatest cure for insomnia ever devised by professional wresting. Those matches were more masturbatory than anything on OnlyFans while making the Bret/Michaels WM 12 snoozer look like a breezy actionfest. Not gonna lie. Hero & Punk beaming like a pair of children being praised by daddy while Ian Rotten gives one of his cringey "rah rah indie wrestling!" speeches in front of 20 bored Indianans after another 50-92 minute cure for insomnia is one of those moments that had me seriously questioning my life choices. 

With that being said, I did enjoy Hero's match with Samoa Joe in IWA-Mid South. It was the one time Hero cut out the crap and got down to business. It was also helped by a red hot crowd split right down the middle who were genuinely invested in the outcome. It's actually one of my favorite (non-ROH) indie matches. I also liked a Hero/Quack vs. Swiss Money Holding (Cesaro & Some Other Guy) match I saw live at a CHIKARA show around 2003. So Hero wasn't ALL bad after all. Let's go with 2/40. So he was 5% good.

Hero and his cravat. For when you want a chinlock, but the IWA mat will likely give you tetnus. AND you can just use british as a meat shield to deflect any criticism. Because Johnny Saint and sheet.

I always enjoyed Hero as a performer, but at least on PW it felt like he had more haters than not. Hated Young KO Kid ROH era Hero though. Surprisingly him getting the belt felt inevitable during the 2nd KOW run as on HDNet ROH they really felt like a big deal. And yet instead they went with the clone wars.

Aug 22, 2021 2:25:46 GMT @ness said:

Surprisingly him getting the belt felt inevitable during the 2nd KOW run as on HDNet ROH they really felt like a big deal. And yet instead they went with the clone wars.

Plz elaborate on these clone wars. 

Aug 22, 2021 2:40:40 GMT Baker said:

Aug 22, 2021 2:25:46 GMT @ness said:

Surprisingly him getting the belt felt inevitable during the 2nd KOW run as on HDNet ROH they really felt like a big deal. And yet instead they went with the clone wars.

Plz elaborate on these clone wars. 

That's the term for that Davey-Eddie-Roddy main event scene around the belt. MMA garbage. I'm sure you've seen those Edwards/Richards gifs... the originator of Seth's Falcon Arrow Post Superplex.

Chris Hero hasn't been good since the Kings of Wrestling broke up, and even then, Claudio was carrying that team. THERE I SAID IT.

Aug 22, 2021 1:24:08 GMT 🤯 said:

Love the analogy of exposing the concrete being the internet era's removing the turnbuckle pad.

I think we should ask System whether he'd prefer to flat back on a ring or cement.

The ring however I did slip over on concrete at work as I decided to wear boots to work instead of dress shoes and they were super slippery (went back to dress shoes) and out of instinct I tucked my chin and slapped my forearms down and was fine.

Did Judo before I did wrestling and they have similar breakfalling techniques so it comes in handy.

Bumped on hardwood floor a few times and it isn’t that bad until the next day :lol:

Only thing I can add to Chris Hero discourse is the first time I saw him was in the Cage Deathmatch between ROH/CZW, years after the fact, and I thought he was a heel god in that match, I thought he must be the greatest, and I had to see more as soon as possible. Then I never enjoyed a single thing I saw him in after that, including Kings of Wrestling, where I somehow hated Claudio even more than Hero.

If you do not like Chris Hero. Especially, like, 08-onward Chris Hero.

You are a jabroni.

Aug 22, 2021 1:24:08 GMT 🤯 said:

Love the analogy of exposing the concrete being the internet era's removing the turnbuckle pad.

I think we should ask System whether he'd prefer to flat back on a ring or cement.

So turns out exposing the concrete is very dangerous and most fans just do not know it.  In a match in CT a guy undershot a moonsault and the kid he was facing moved forward to catch him, but caught him weird so he could not get his hands down to break his fall right.  His crack cracked into the concrete floor and he died on the way to the hospital.  Very likely even with a single layer of pads he would have lived.  After this Vince and WWE guys put major pressure on feds in CT that they needed mats.  

Here is Paul Bearer's rant on the Spyder death. I heard the same rant from a few vets when I mentioned I loved Jack Evans.




The following ramble and rant has been on my mind for about a week now. When I feel that I must speak out on a subject, I usually do my best not to talk business in a public forum such as this. However, in this case it cannot be avoided. I am speaking directly to all of you guys and gals out there that call yourselves professional wrestlers, and those of you that want to be called by that moniker.

It doesn't matter if you are a Plumber, Dentist, Candle Maker, or Indian Chief, after 30-years in any business you develop a sort of wisdom for your trade. It is your obligation to pass on this "wisdom" to those that you meet climbing the ladder, as you climb your way back down from the top. The following news story is what prompted my homily here today.

The Associated Press Tuesday, May 31, 2005
TAUNTON, Mass. - A 22-year-old professional wrestler has died after he landed on his head during a match at an American Legion post here. Authorities said Daniel Quirk, of Shelton, Conn., was outside the ring when he attempted to catch another wrestler diving from the top rope. Quirk was knocked off his feet and hit his head on the floor.

This young man's death was totally unnecessary. It is so surprising to me that this type of horrible accident doesn't happen more often, considering the state of independent wrestling today. I don't care what part of the country you live in, you can witness these accidents about to happen virtually everyday. Friday night, one week ago, I saw it again for myself. There were three kids, and yes they were kids dressed up like wrestlers, in an opening match of a gulf coast independent promoter. As soon as the bell rang, there they went into a so called "three-way dance." They did everything but the proverbial kitchen sink. At one point, one of them executed the same move that killed Daniel Quirk. This idiot, yes there's is no other term to use and I do not apologize, went to the top rope and turned a complete 360 degree flip not into the ring but outside onto the concrete floor! Thank The Dear Lord his friends were there to break his fall this time. I almost had a heart attack.

First of all, you don't open the show with a match such as that. I am not going into the reasons why here, because we would be here the rest of the day. Just because you can get yourself a wrestling outfit, and find somebody that will allow you on their show and perform for free, you call yourself a "wrestler." Do you think that promoter would take care of you and your family if you got hurt or killed? Please... let's wake up.

Just because I can go out and buy myself a white coat and a stethoscope, doesn't allow me to call myself a Doctor. I may have a box of tools, and my ass crack my show above my blue jeans, but I'm certainly not a plumber. Do you follow my reasoning? The promoters are just as much to blame as the "wrestlers." If I was running a show and someone told me that they would wrestle for free, I would tell them to find the door. You get what you pay for.

You all point your finger towards Stamford, CT. Look at your hand when you point, as you have three fingers pointing right back at yourself. Independent wrestling is the grass roots of our industry. It must be protected. Where will the next superstars come from?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not writing about all independent promoters. There are many good ones out there that respect our business and it's performers. They know who they are. It's the bad ones out there, that find a ring, put it in a high school gym or such, and sell tickets to their "professional wrestling" show. Buyer Beware!

I think I will stop now, my blood pressure is high enough. If just one of you young ring stars out there gets the picture that I am trying to paint for you, this tirade has been worth it. If wrestling is for you, hang in there and reach for the stars. Get the proper training from a legit professional, and NEVER put your life on the line to benefit anybody, especially a self-proclaimed "rasslin" promoter.

My thoughts go out to the family and friends of Daniel Quirk. May God Bless his soul.

Take care, my friends.
~Percy

Happened a few months ago to one of the wrestlers I know, broken into 26 pieces I believe he said

System is that from landing on his foot on said exposed floor?

Aug 22, 2021 14:08:12 GMT @ness said:

System is that from landing on his foot on said exposed floor?

Yeah he landed on hardwood floor with no padding on outside.

Some promotions have padding on the outside/most don’t in my experience but they don’t expect you to bump on the outside

Look at the crowd in that pic. At what point, do you go " na, not for $50 and 15 people am I jumping off that thing "

Maybe it's just me, but I'd hate to injury myself that badly and never wrestle again and grow old not knowing what could have been. Potentially a real career is completely gone, because of a sick spot at an indie show in front of 15 people.

Wrestling is a crazy business and depending on where WWE goes in the next 10 years I could see it going completely underground.

Aug 22, 2021 14:22:15 GMT NATH45 said:

Look at the crowd in that pic. At what point, do you go " na, not for $50 and 15 people am I jumping off that thing "

Maybe it's just me, but I'd hate to injury myself that badly and never wrestle again and grow old not knowing what could have been. Potentially a real career is completely gone, because of a sick spot at an indie show in front of 15 people.

I get your point but there was about 300 people at this show, just not in the shot.