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Post by KITN on Apr 10, 2022 3:11:37 GMT
PuroWave rules.
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Post by Big Pete on Apr 10, 2022 3:56:55 GMT
The Bull Nakano PuroWave is the official theme song of the ArcHIGHve thread 🤯 .
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Post by Ed on Apr 10, 2022 16:48:20 GMT
I'm glad Bret has a sense of humor. I find it refreshing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2022 17:01:19 GMT
Hope Ukraine bleeds red and yellow brother.
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Post by Ed on Apr 11, 2022 0:13:35 GMT
Hope Ukraine bleeds red and yellow brother. Hulk is always working himself into a shoot, brother!
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Post by KITN on Apr 13, 2022 7:48:54 GMT
Remember the time Steve Austin pissed on Arn Anderson? The fuck was that about?
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 13, 2022 12:42:54 GMT
Remember the time Steve Austin pissed on Arn Anderson? The fuck was that about? Austin & Vince originally bonded over a shared golden shower fetish.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 13:01:28 GMT
2002 WWE was fucking weird man. This is the same year that gave us Katie Vick and Al Wilson.
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 13, 2022 13:02:53 GMT
2002 WWE was fucking weird man. This is the same year that gave us Katie Vick and Al Wilson. , aren't you more than just a little surprised that Vince didn't have Al Wilson piss on Katie Vick in some brand vs. brand skit at Survivor Series 2002?
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Post by Big Pete on Apr 13, 2022 16:17:24 GMT
Was that when Austin was trying to figure out WTF a Nature Boy was?
I don't know man, it wasn't even that long ago they had William Regal pee on the Big Show and have Tommy Dreamer eat a urinal cake.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2022 16:19:01 GMT
Back to Austin's piss... wasn't it lemon yellow colored? Hydrated it should be clear but it was borderline orange 🚾
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Post by Shootist on Apr 13, 2022 18:12:46 GMT
Back to Austin's piss... wasn't it lemon yellow colored? Hydrated it should be clear but it was borderline orange 🚾 That's what a steady diet of Steveweisers will do to you.
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Post by Baker on Apr 14, 2022 1:48:40 GMT
Just realized today is the 35th anniversary of Wrestlemania III. I am so old. Realizing today is the 25th anniversary of Barely Legal makes me feel even older.
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Post by Shootist on Apr 14, 2022 3:34:39 GMT
Just realized today is the 35th anniversary of Wrestlemania III. I am so old. Realizing today is the 25th anniversary of Barely Legal makes me feel even older. Also coming up on 20 years since we got the F out which is equal to the amount of time they were known as the WWF (1982-2002), crazy.
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Post by Kilgore on Apr 14, 2022 5:05:19 GMT
Just realized today is the 35th anniversary of Wrestlemania III. I am so old. Realizing today is the 25th anniversary of Barely Legal makes me feel even older. Barley Legal's 18th Anniversary, which we all joked about on the old PW as "finally turning legal," being 7 years ago already, just put me in an existential crisis.
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Post by Baker on Apr 15, 2022 0:12:17 GMT
Getting smartened up during the Monday Night War caused me to believe there was always bad blood when a wrestler left a promotion. This was not always the case. Here are some examples which really reinforce that, as well as the whole old "pro wrestling is a brotherhood" thing...
Rick Rude left WWF in October 1990. Two months later he had a conversation with his real life friend Percy Pringle who had managed Rude in World Class. Percy told Rude business was dead in Texas. Pringle was about to give up his wrestling hobby for good and go back to working a full time 'real' job. Rude was like "Hold up. WWF is always looking for talent. Let me give them a call for you." Rude was correct. WWF was indeed looking for talent. A meeting was arranged. It went well. Percy Pringle was hired. He debuted in early 91 as Paul Bearer. The rest is history. So here you have Rick Rude getting his friend a WWF job only two months after leaving the company himself. (multiple sources)
The year is 2000. The MNW is more like a Monday Night Massacre at this point, but it still technically exists. This time it's WCW star Randy Savage phoning his old employer out of the blue with a recommendation. He's all like "Look, I know you have nothing for me, but you should really check out this Nora Greenwald. She's really good. Worked with me in WCW. Just got released. Give her a look. You won't regret it." WWF took Macho Man's advice and that's how they ended up getting Molly Holly. (source Prichard's podcast on BOBCORE)
Those are just two examples fresh in my mind. I'm sure there are many others.
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Post by Baker on Apr 19, 2022 15:21:51 GMT
Grumpy Mean Gene rules... 
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Post by kingoftheworld on Apr 21, 2022 0:43:04 GMT
Was that when Austin was trying to figure out WTF a Nature Boy was? I don't know man, it wasn't even that long ago they had William Regal pee on the Big Show and have Tommy Dreamer eat a urinal cake. Or Regal drinking Y2P out the teapot.
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Post by Big Pete on Apr 22, 2022 18:31:22 GMT
Favourite stories from the RVD 1999 shot:
- Taz and Sabu's rivalry extended to RVD since he was best buds with Sabu. During the time where RVD was TV Champion, Taz insisted on coming up with a new design for the TV title. When Rob finally saw it, he realised the new title was done up in silver while the FTW was made up in gold. So not to be stooged into carrying the title, he kept coming up with excuses for losing the title until Paul E grew wise to it and eventually just had them re-do the same title but in gold.
- When Rob went to the WWF he initially hated having to adjust to time cues. He turned to Tajiri and was like 'man don't you miss the old days where we got to do all we wanted for the love of the craft and would leave it all out in the ring' to which Tajiri replied 'shorter better'. Rob was taken a back and tried to argue his point about fans paying their hard earned just to see them wrestle and how it's impossible in a 2 minute match but Tajiri stuck to his guns. So RVD thought Tajiri had changed and become a corporate sell out until the grind sunk in and he understood where he was coming from.
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Post by Ed on Apr 22, 2022 20:23:48 GMT
JC gets creative with a fun rebook of the invasion.
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Post by Baker on Apr 22, 2022 23:57:04 GMT
Favourite stories from the RVD 1999 shot: Starting listening to this today. Great minds... Ed I'm only a few minutes into the Cornette rebook but if that's the one where he wanted to build the WCW Invasion angle around 57 year old Terry Funk... 
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Post by Ed on Apr 23, 2022 0:29:42 GMT
Favourite stories from the RVD 1999 shot: Starting listening to this today. Great minds... Ed I'm only a few minutes into the Cornette rebook but if that's the one where he wanted to build the WCW Invasion angle around 57-year-old Terry Funk... Please keep in mind, that Terry Funk is 1 of my favorite wrestlers ever. With that being said, I know Corny is suspending disbelief by lumping JCP & WCW fans in 1 pile but those fanbases are not identical. If they were, there's no way the Funker would have gotten disrespected like he was in WCW in 1999. I like how conveniently the tennis racket boy forgets that. I can't wait to rewatch the RVD shoot later. All of that on top of what you said makes Cornette sound like a fool. If this was an ECW invasion, it would have been rooted in logic. ECW fans loved Funk.
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Post by Shootist on Apr 23, 2022 1:28:00 GMT
JC gets creative with a fun rebook of the invasion. I watched this the other night, it actually isn't as bad as I remember. I especially liked his booking of Raw/Nitro and Wrestlemania did end up being pretty stacked. Terry Funk wasn't as much of a focal point as I thought which garnered the ridicule at that time. Funk stealing the IC title to make Vinnie Mac fume would have been a great storyline.
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Post by KITN on Apr 23, 2022 6:10:15 GMT
I have what might be a controversial question.
Is Jeff Hardy really a high-flyer?
Or is he just a high faller?
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Post by 🤯 on Apr 23, 2022 11:25:42 GMT
I have what might be a controversial question. Is Jeff Hardy really a high-flyer? Or is he just a high faller? He's Buzz Lightyear.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2022 12:43:42 GMT
I have what might be a controversial question. Is Jeff Hardy really a high-flyer? Or is he just a high faller? He's Buzz Lightyear. And beyond.
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Post by Ed on Apr 23, 2022 20:45:15 GMT
I watched the WWE doc entitled EVIL. I'm not a fan of Vince Russo. With that being said, he's right about Hulk Hogan. My guy is delusional. On 1 hand, Terry said, the inmates are running the asylum, yet refused to take the blame in any way for contributing to that environment.
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Post by Baker on Apr 24, 2022 0:33:25 GMT
In which I disagree with everybody... KITN A good, thoughtful question, but I'll give Jeff Hardy full points for being a tru high flyer. Mick Foley is a high faller. Jeff actually did fly. =============== Listened to all 3 hours of Jim Cornette rebooking the Invasion and it is every bit as bad as I remembered. First hour is skippable. Just the same old grumpy Cornette ranting and raving we've all heard for years. Then we finally get to his Invasion angle and there is so much wrong with it. Here are some examples... Corny spends much of the first hour bemoaning the fact that everybody knows wrestling is a work now. Then the big hook of his invasion angle is basically to admit normal wrestling is a work (which he just spent an hour complaining about!) while pushing all the WWF vs. WCW stuff as SUPER DUPER REAL, I SWEAR. Basically his big idea is to book a bunch of midcarders in Russoesque shooty shoot b.s. for most of 2001. Yes, because Malenko (who was near retirement irl) and Saturn worked shooting on Rick Steiner=Dimes in Cornette's mind. Vince is back to the same old evil promoter on the very first show of Corny's invasion angle. To make matters worse, Bischoff soon joins as his lackey. Meaning Cornette, just like real life WWF, doesn't book a match guaranteed to have the real, legit heat he's always banging on about. WWF soon gives WCW their own show to avoid wrestlers from the two promotions shooty shoot shooting on each other and I'm sure the networks WWF was working with would have been just fine ditching the winning promotion to air a dead brand  Terry Funk is indeed heavily featured. He works 2nd from the top against Undertaker at WM 18....in 2002....at 57 years old. Like Ed, I love The Funker. He was #10 on my list when we did our Favorite Wrestler countdown a while back. But he hadn't been a genuine top guy in WWF or WCW since 1989 and had only been in either promotion for cups of coffee in 94, 98, and 2000. This would be like if Jake Roberts was booked as the #2 guy in WWF during a 1998 invasion angle. Brock Lesnar defeats Ric Flair by (worked) shooty shoot shooting on PPV in Brock's debut match. Then Lesnar disappears for months! Because ya gotta keep OVW strong, brother. Oh, keep in mind it was 52 year old Ric Flair who told Vince the WCW guys were gonna shooty shoot shoot on the WWF guys in the first place. Yes, because nothing says intimidating like a 52 year old Ric Flair. If you're gonna do this dumb angle at least have somebody like Scott Steiner or Goldberg be the one to bring it up. The WWF guys come across as a bunch of wimps for not immediately being like "LOL. OK. Let's go, old man." Oh, Undertaker is the one guy to be against this WWF vs. WCW war in the beginning because reasons. But then he gets on board for a red hot* feud with 57 year old Terry Funk. Don't remember it ever being explained why. *Literally given this feud involves Funk sticking a flaming branding iron up Taker's ass. I am not making this up. He botches so many little details. Like I genuinely don't think he knows Mick Foley retired in early 2000, Benoit (who he features rather prominently) got injured right when his Invasion angle began, Eddie was gone from the company, and other things along those lines that I've thankfully forgotten. Oh, he refuses to bring Lex Luger in because "Vince would never." Yet he also features Jeff Jarrett in a semi-prominent role. Umm... His WM 18 main event is Steve Austin vs. WCW Champion Cactus Jack. There are so many things wrong with this that I don't even know where to begin. 3rd or 4th from the top is Hulk Hogan vs. Dusty Rhodes. Yes, Dusty Rhodes. The guy who hadn't been a full time wrestler since early 1991. And get this. He has 56 year old Dusty Rhodes refuse to put Hogan over clean in 2002! Because in Jim Cornette's world I guess it's always 1985 and Dusty still has stroke. If a 56 year old Dusty Rhodes refused to job to, say, Justin Credible in real life 2001 WWF, he'd have been given the boot quicker than you can say "if you wheel." He chose to only take four wrestlers from ECW- RVD, Nova, Jerry Lynn & Balls Mahoney. RVD is a no brainer. I like Nova & Mahoney more than most, but those guys over Corino & Tajiri? I think not. I was a low vote on Lynn back in 01 (far too bland for my taste), and would not have chose him as one of my ECW fab four, but I can at least see that one since the RVD series turned him into a smark darling. That's really just scratching the surface. Listening to this confirmed my memory that it was just as bad as the real life Invasion angle and I am willing to die on that hill. The Good- The little technicality he came up with to have WCW win the big 16 match "Winner Take All" series with WWF at WM 18 was actually pretty clever. Having Kevin Nash wrestle a 2nd on the card throwaway match (against Rhyno, who was injured irl) is one of the more tolerable uses of Nash you're ever likely to see. Verdict- Down there with the guy on the old DVDVR forum whose big idea to save WCW was building to a big Randy Savage vs. Shane Douglas match at Starrcade 2001 as the worst unironic rebooking project I have ever encountered. What I Would Have Done- Buy out/wait until the big stars contracts are up. Otherwise don't even bother because it's just WWF vs. a bunch of jabronies. Assuming we get the wrestlers who actually matter.... WCW are invading heels the hardcore WWF audience (raises hand) are already predisposed to hate. WWF are babyfaces. The two sides hate each another. That's it. Keep the cute swerves to a minimum. I'll concede ONE evil WWF guy defecting because everyone hates a traitor and ONE good WCW guy siding with the Fed. No 1999 Vince Russo style shooty shoot shoot nonsense. Bischoff leads WCW. Vince leads WWF. But you don't need to have them on tv a thousand times a night. Focus on the wrestlers, not their bosses. For all his ranting and raving about what WWF had become, Corny fell into a lot of the same traps. For example he devotes a lot of time to General Managers and has guys WCW screwed over in real life inexplicably defecting to the promotion.
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Post by KITN on Apr 24, 2022 2:59:58 GMT
Ah, Baker. Whatever our differences might be, we'll always have hating Jim Cornette's invasion.
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Post by Baker on Apr 24, 2022 3:01:25 GMT
How come the Red Rooster gimmick "killed Terry Taylor's career" but...
Isaac Yankem & Fake Diesel did not kill Kane's career?
Master Blaster Whoever, Oz, & Vinnie Vegas did not kill Kevin Nash's career?
Spirit Squad Nicky & The Caddy did not kill Dolph Ziggler's career?
Rockabilly did not kill Billy Gunn's career?
Etc. Etc.
Maybe Terry Taylor just wasn't that great to begin with?
===========
Speaking of Billy Gunn...a few months ago I came up with 11+ recommended matches for fellow longtime WWF midcarder and member of the Boy Club for both @ness and I, BOBCORE Holly. Yet I'm struggling mightily to do the same for Bad Ass Billy. Here's what I have so far...
Singles
vs. Hardcore Holly- Raw 3/15/99 (which I probably overrated)
vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi- NJPW in the US (I know most people hated this, but I enjoyed it. Thought it was 10x better than, say, Ishii/Shibata @ Wrestle Kingdom)
Tags (no multi-man/team matches)
w/ Road Dogg vs. Hardcore Legends- Wrestlemania XIV (my favorite Billy Gunn match)
w/ Chuck vs. Hogan & Edge- Smackdown 7/4/02 (my 2nd favorite Billy Gunn match)
w/ Bart Gunn vs. Owen & Bulldog- IYH September 1996 (probably haven't seen it since it aired, but dug it at the time)
w/ Bart Gunn vs. Owen & Bulldog- IYH October 1996 (maybe?)
w/ Bart Gunn vs. Owen & Yoko- WM 11 (it was laid out well!)
w/ Road Dogg vs. Owen & Jarrett- Backlash 1999 (didn't really hold up, but I'm grasping at straws here)
w/ Road Dogg vs. Hardcore Legends- Raw after WM 14 (lol this is more angle than match. But at least it's memorable!)
*So even being generous as possible I could only come up with 9 "good" matches in the long, long career of Billy Gunn. Does this make Billy the ultimate Boy? By Ness' logic it does. Here are 5 reasons why Billy Gunn eventually became a Baker Guy despite averaging less than one borderline good match per year...
1. Catchy themes
2. A handful of cool moves
3. The backlash to the backlash. Though I'll confess to flirting with smark culture, I thankfully never fully embraced it. A time came when the Billy Gunn hate got out of control and of course I just had to be That Guy to go against the grain. "He's not THAT bad! He has SOME charisma!"- 01ish Baker
4. A sorta "new pair of underwear" logic. He stuck around WWF long enough to finally grow on me in that 7th or 8th year (really not unlike BOBCORE).
5. Finally finding a fun tag partner (Chuck) after a boring one (Bart) and an annoying one (Road Dogg)
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