PUN INTENDED.

Sinclair has always been about spending as little as possible. Guess it doesn't matter too much seeing as even Impact is more relevant.

To be honest I’m shocked it took this long. I’ve been convinced that Sinclair was keeping ROH alive as a money laundering scheme and tax write off.

They haven’t been able to hold on to decent talent for years and Delirious is the worst booker I’ve ever seen. The only thing keeping them relevant in the 2010’s was the fact they talent shared with NJPW, and when that ended I thought they were done. Since the NJPW relationship ended and all the Elite guys started doing their own thing, they’ve had one good wrestler come through that company (Jeff Cobb) and he left first chance he got.

It would be nice if they bounced back from this and became relevant again but I just don’t see it. Nobody has cared about ROH since 2008. It needs to just die already, as sad as it is to say.

EDIT: I forgot the Briscoes existed. They deserve to be mentioned.

After Steen's run as top guy I basically stopped paying attention other than when I'd visit my parent's house (they still have cable so it's always on in the bg) and I'd see Lethal still shilling about knee braces lol.

I'm surprised they lasted this long. The emergence of AEW was the death blow.

And if there's a talent on that ROH roster making anymore than $100 a show, they should all be ashamed of themselves. There hasn't been a drawcard on that roster since The Elite left.

Oct 27, 2021 20:23:55 GMT @ness said:

After Steen's run as top guy I basically stopped paying attention other than when I'd visit my parent's house (they still have cable so it's always on in the bg) and I'd see Lethal still shilling about knee braces lol.

I think I caught an episode of ROH around the time that Jeff Cobb was dominating everyone as Television Champ and honestly it was like watching a live feed of a local fed in a gym somewhere. It was so bad. I couldn’t even tell you what else was on the show. Gun to my head, “Jeff Cobb squashed someone and that’s all I remember.”

The MSG show with New Japan that turned out to be the final nail in that coffin….holy hell. It was like night and day between the two feds. If you didn’t know who belonged to what company you could just guess based on the quality of literally everything. Their highest booked talent for that show was fucking Matt Taven hahaha

Incoming Vince KING KID, McMahon buying ROH library 😒

If AEW was smart, would see a new guy each week in a one and done match. Have them challenge for belts and job them.

And you made it farther than I did Ness. After Age of the Fall I stopped following them outside of select matches.

Oct 27, 2021 20:18:39 GMT RT said:

To be honest I’m shocked it took this long. I’ve been convinced that Sinclair was keeping ROH alive as a money laundering scheme and tax write off.

They haven’t been able to hold on to decent talent for years and Delirious is the worst booker I’ve ever seen. The only thing keeping them relevant in the 2010’s was the fact they talent shared with NJPW, and when that ended I thought they were done. Since the NJPW relationship ended and all the Elite guys started doing their own thing, they’ve had one good wrestler come through that company (Jeff Cobb) and he left first chance he got.

It would be nice if they bounced back from this and became relevant again but I just don’t see it. Nobody has cared about ROH since 2008. It needs to just die already, as sad as it is to say.

EDIT: I forgot the Briscoes existed. They deserve to be mentioned.

Split with Gabe was the beginning of the end of RoH.  Like them or hate them. RF and Gabe had a great vision and without them, the fed was not the same.  

And yeah, after the Sinclair buyout of course I was not going to spend a dime on RoH.  No way Sinclair was getting any of my money.  Funny how people were like cancel CHIKARA and still happily gave RoH money when Sinclair is far more vile than any wrestling persona.  

Sinclair picked up shit like RoH as they diversified to avoid the heat they got for the conservative news takeover they pulled.  By expanding they managed to shake the rep they justifiably earned as a right wing propaganda machine.

Oct 27, 2021 21:58:49 GMT c said:

Oct 27, 2021 20:18:39 GMT RT said:

To be honest I’m shocked it took this long. I’ve been convinced that Sinclair was keeping ROH alive as a money laundering scheme and tax write off.

They haven’t been able to hold on to decent talent for years and Delirious is the worst booker I’ve ever seen. The only thing keeping them relevant in the 2010’s was the fact they talent shared with NJPW, and when that ended I thought they were done. Since the NJPW relationship ended and all the Elite guys started doing their own thing, they’ve had one good wrestler come through that company (Jeff Cobb) and he left first chance he got.

It would be nice if they bounced back from this and became relevant again but I just don’t see it. Nobody has cared about ROH since 2008. It needs to just die already, as sad as it is to say.

EDIT: I forgot the Briscoes existed. They deserve to be mentioned.

Split with Gabe was the beginning of the end of RoH.  Like them or hate them. RF and Gabe had a great vision and without them, the fed was not the same.  

And yeah, after the Sinclair buyout of course I was not going to spend a dime on RoH.  No way Sinclair was getting any of my money.  Funny how people were like cancel CHIKARA and still happily gave RoH money when Sinclair is far more vile than any wrestling persona.  

Sinclair picked up shit like RoH as they diversified to avoid the heat they got for the conservative news takeover they pulled.  By expanding they managed to shake the rep they justifiably earned as a right wing propaganda machine.

Every local news station having that awkward "what's wrong with america" segment was always jarring to me. "What the fuck is on the screen right now?"

Pandemic kills another business. Sad to see them go, I tried watching a few times in the last couple years and it was mostly not good. Hope the wrestlers land on their feet.

Hope something happens for GCW to get even bigger.

Also who really IS the most loyal fanbase? Every fed makes this claim.

Obviously they had been bumbling and stumbling a little bit in recent years - but it's sad news for the industry in general, and particularly all the wrestlers who will be out of work for the next few months. ROH had acted the most responsibly of any wrestling company regarding the pandemic so it's a shame that this seems to be the result of that.

I'm especially disappointed as what they were doing with their women's division was really positive after a few false starts. Hopefully the women are able to land on their feet but it might be difficult for some of them, especially as at least a few of them were in ROH because they had already been passed up by AEW. Hopefully Impact can make a few signings - there are definitely a few talents that could boost the in ring side of their division.

Maria and Mike Kanellis probably should not have burnt their WWE bridge so soon. Maybe Impact will take them in once again if they say pretty please.

Danhaussen probably got saved though, he's AEW to the tea. Indy gimmick, indy everything. Should be the 1st guy signed by them. Mind boggling he didn't wait to sign with AEW.

I would like to see both Caprice Coleman and Ian Riccaboni find a gig elsewhere, they got heavy endorsement from Jim Cornette who is as critical as they come for commentators and both seem well liked. Particularly, the latter has done some great work with the LGBTQ+ community with charities.

Oct 27, 2021 20:18:39 GMT RT said:

To be honest I’m shocked it took this long. I’ve been convinced that Sinclair was keeping ROH alive as a money laundering scheme and tax write off.

They haven’t been able to hold on to decent talent for years and Delirious is the worst booker I’ve ever seen. The only thing keeping them relevant in the 2010’s was the fact they talent shared with NJPW, and when that ended I thought they were done. Since the NJPW relationship ended and all the Elite guys started doing their own thing, they’ve had one good wrestler come through that company (Jeff Cobb) and he left first chance he got.

It would be nice if they bounced back from this and became relevant again but I just don’t see it. Nobody has cared about ROH since 2008. It needs to just die already, as sad as it is to say.

EDIT: I forgot the Briscoes existed. They deserve to be mentioned.

WWE raided them pretty good. Dijak/Dijakovic, Keith Lee, Undisputed Era(Mainly Strong & ReDragon), Punishment Martinez/Damian Priest all got scooped up a few years ago. Dumbest thing ROH could do is threaten WWE legally with tampering, ROH should have tried to try and work something out between the two sides but it seems like they made consistent dumb decisions around this time. 

Oct 27, 2021 22:15:26 GMT nazzer said:

Hope something happens for GCW to get even bigger.

GCW needs to do three things:

1) invest in their production. Better cameras and angles, and some more mics so we can actually hear entrance music. Just those things would go a long way.

2) tell their commentators to shut the fuck up every now and then. They never shut up and they force the word "fuck" into every sentence to sound edgy. It's really bad and I see complaints about it all the time.

3) promote the hell out of the Hammerstein Ballroom show coming up in January and go balls out. Make people believe that there is a void to be filled (there kind of is now) and that 2023 will be the year of GCW. Knock it out of the park and run with it.

They've hit some home runs with Matt Cardona and Jon Moxley the past few months, so they have eyes on them now (side note: why doesn't Moxley carry the GCW Championship around with him everywhere? There's gotta be a reason. Figure that shit out and let him have it on Dynamite ffs). Use them as a bridge between AEW and Impact and try to get some new faces or one-offs to show up in January. They could be in a good position here if they don't fuck it up somehow.

Their interest in the wrestling business has seemed lukewarm at best for awhile now. Bully Ray has listed a ton of names that went through tryouts there and he recommended they sign them. ROH declined and they went on to become stars elsewhere .

How a company owned by a media conglomerate has no interest in getting their product on TV despite owning a ton of networks is baffling.

I've been thinking about ROH on and off and one question I keep constantly asking myself is who should be ROH champion. I could be out grabbing coffee, only to zone out for a second and question who the company should be built around. Not only is it strange to think about Pro Wrestling in a public setting - it's even stranger to think about a show you hadn't watched a full episode of since the pandemic hit.

So I actually sat down and watched a full episode and was about to give my impressions before this news hit. I was actually a couple of paragraphs in and how underrated La Faccion Ingobernables is on the wrestling scene and how the Pure division maybe one of the best things ROH has put together since I started watching and now this.

The shocking thing about all of this is that they were still able to produce shows after the pandemic. You nailed it RT when you called the MSG show a turning point - the Elite drew that house and while ROH had a chance to introduce a new core audience but they were way too slow to pull the trigger on guys like RUSH, Cobb and Scurll (which was a blessing) instead going with guys like Lethal and Taven who were stale.

It just seemed like whenever ROH came up in 2019 it was for the wrong reasons. Whether it was Bubba accosting that fan for being abusive to his partner or the Kelly Klein incident. They appeared to be getting their act together creatively with a focus on technical wrestling and their lucha libre talent but it just seemed like they didn't do anything ballsy to attract fans.

The thing with all the guys the WWE signed Blindy is that ROH didn't really use them. Martinez was the only guy they put some stock into and even then it was a real slow burn push where they'd have him lose to guys like Lio Rush and put him in these throw-away multi-men matches where a comedy character like the Beer City Bruiser would win. Guys like Keith Lee and Dominik Dijakovic were notoriously underutilised with Keith Lee being booked as the Jannetty to Shane Taylor and Dijakovic obviously had this high ceiling but after breaking up with the House of Truth he was largely booked as a job guy.

I thought NJPW had patched things up with ROH but it appears they only got Rocky Romero to appear on one of their shows. To be fair since NJPW launched STRONG there was little reason to work as closely with ROH. I always think about how they had guys like Jay White and Hiromu Takahashi on their roster and they barely did anything with them. White jobbed out to everyone and really just came off as a better looking Jacob Novak DESPITE his stuff looking better looking than the majority of the roster. One of the reasons why he even got as many opportunities as he did was because he was staying with Alex Shelley and the Motor City Machine Guns took him in on the show giving him some direction. Similarly Takahashi rarely won any matches and at best you got the sense that he was underrated. I don't think anyone expected him to take NJPW by storm like he did.

It'll be interesting to see how things shake up. Guys like Dragon Lee, Flamita, Horus would be huge assets and I've heard some good thing about the women who could help bolster up AEW. Otherwise I think a lot of talent will be back for the re-launch.

Oct 27, 2021 22:15:26 GMT nazzer said:

Pandemic kills another business. Sad to see them go, I tried watching a few times in the last couple years and it was mostly not good. Hope the wrestlers land on their feet.

Hope something happens for GCW to get even bigger.

Not sure if GCW will get bigger, but they are at a great size right now to do what they want.  One of the craziest stories in wrestling to see JCW revive even stronger.   They get to the size of say AEW and get a TV deal the fed will not work as people will come down hard on safety issues or the language and attitude of the fed.  They will need to tone down for sponsors, remove the hardcore and separate the fans from the wrestlers.  Basically, give up everything that makes them special right now.  They should invest in better shows, and look into a hybrid model of free streams and paid streams.  Stream free shit on twitch to get donations and what not and for big shows sell the show itself elsewhere.

Many of the RoH guys also work regional feds regularly, so they will just pick up more bookings.  With no contracts, AEW and NWA are free to use them, as is GGCW.  Sadly, some guys were in RoH because the went full on Q crazy and will not likely find work elsewhere.  Many feds got no time for political ranting backstage.

Interesting thing I learned from all this: NXT’s Joaquin Wilde designed the ROH logo when he was 15.

Clarified reports are saying RoH moving forward will be booking like a standard indy fed. They will work who is free, but will not commit to using anyone for prolonged periods of time, nor pay them for exclusive rights. This IMO is better overall. If things are not working, they can barrel roll at will and bring in new guys to really mix things up. When you pay by the year, you lose this option as you have to use the guys you are paying for or loss cash.

It's at least interesting enough to check out if they come back. Probably won't stick around, but there's no sense in having things like contracts and the like. Sorry Gresham.

Apparently the tape library is up for sale, with Sinclair looking for the highest bidder. It's also reported, ROH own the rights to the initial ' All In ' PPV.

So, in a real power play - WWE could buy the library and shelve All In.

WWE should absolutely buy the Library. Since a lot of guys came through RoH to WWE they could use the footage on their retrospectives. Also there is a ton if amazing content in there. Likewise AEW could do well with it, but they do not have a way to really distribute it. But if WWE got most of that library on the network, man, def would consider paying for it.

Looks like this may have been fake news. Being reported that companies are not aware of this. Another source claims Sinclair only owns from 2012 on, which means most of the great stuff they do not even own.

2012 on is not worth much at all.  It sounds like they tried several times to sell the library last year and no one is really interested in the price they want.

2012 onwards would've padded out a nice Adam Cole comp. Shame he left so no point now.

That period onwards is very much the stateside origin story of AEW or could be with a little revisionist editing.

Oct 28, 2021 22:57:29 GMT c said:

WWE should absolutely buy the Library. Since a lot of guys came through RoH to WWE they could use the footage on their retrospectives. Also there is a ton if amazing content in there. Likewise AEW could do well with it, but they do not have a way to really distribute it. But if WWE got most of that library on the network, man, def would consider paying for it.

You could spend an entire week hyping the content considering the former talent on the WWE roster.

KO, Rollins, Sami, KOR, Strong, Joe, Adam Pearce, Cesaro, Dijak.. I'm sure there's more to contribute.

Braun Strowman just debuted in ROH.