Jan 22, 2022 14:58:10 GMT c said:

What gets more interesting is they already quit. Expected at the court hearing monday they will demand the court order that the 7 employees that quit are mandated by the court to return to their old jobs until replacements are found.

Here it comes boyos.

Mandatory job placement.

Which if govt mandate meant living wage... I'm all for it.

Something tells me these jobs are max 12/hr and also it requires also doing 4 people's jobs...

That is what the worker who left that talked about it said - the new jobs were more pay, and better work / life balance. It was the world / life balance stuff that ultimate sold people, the extra pay was just a bonus. Sounds like no one was happy at this place and they were pushing the people to do more work than they were comfortable doing. Which is concerning since this is healthcare.

Get the violin ready for CEO of Bank of America who is complaining now that he cannot hire works and his workers keep quitting. Management picking up the slack is not an option apparently. His boot straps are also broken. He says US needs to increase it reproduction rate. As in we need more people to fight over jobs again so bosses hold all the power.

Bank of America also says Netflix is still a strong investment, so maybe we should not listen to them.

Jan 23, 2022 0:24:16 GMT c said:

Get the violin ready for CEO of Bank of America who is complaining now that he cannot hire works and his workers keep quitting. Management picking up the slack is not an option apparently. His boot straps are also broken. He says US needs to increase it reproduction rate. As in we need more people to fight over jobs again so bosses hold all the power.

Bank of America also says Netflix is still a strong investment, so maybe we should not listen to them.

Birth rates are as low as they've ever been, less than replacement rates.

CEOs most affected.

Does seem the super rich are the only ones who can financially afford to raise children. Well, the nannies anyway.

Jan 19, 2022 13:33:43 GMT c said:

Death of America auto companies came from decreasing cash in R&D to increase profitability. Lead to cataphoric failures. Loss of R&D funds caused huge problems for all three big companies. Ford were catching fire, GM was caught lying about the moters they were using in cars and had problems with their diesel engines and Chrysler had constant recalls for safety malfunctions. Also the recall equation used in Fight Club became public knowledge, that companies would not recall unless cost of lost lawsuits would be more expensive than a recall. Why would Americans buy these cars when Japanese cars were safer and cheaper?

GM and Chrysler needed to be bailed out multiple times by the American people both declaring bankruptcy in the early 1980's. Ford survived but next market shock will likely kill the company as they are heavy in debt with a debt to asset ratio of 4. GM and Chrysler during the failures were forced to sell assets so Euro car makers bought various brands. Ford decided to cancel all passenger cars except for Mustangs to try to stay competitive.

In each case here, cause was not investing but simple greed that killed them. They cut corners heavily to max profit and people died as a result destroying consumer confidence in their products. American people should have let GM and Chrysler fail. Very likely Ford will be left to fail as Americans are sick of bailing out the auto industry.

You might want to revisit your thinking here.
There were a couple of large factors in the decline in the US Auto industry and you touched on one below.
One of the death blows to the auto industry was the relentless attack of Ralph Nader on the US Automotive industry.
In his attempt to make a name for himself he promoted foreign interests over American jobs.
The media always up for a witch hunt accepted his data at face value without comparing it to data for similar imported cars.

Jan 19, 2022 15:14:24 GMT c said:

Also what is funny about the auto collapse if you look at what REALLY killed the Detroit auto market was a corrupt union. The United Automobile Workers pushed for worker rights but mostly was there to benefit itself. It did not stop layoffs during the boom period or the 1973 oil embargo. Also the union were notorious liars, reporting management salaries as autoworker salaries so when people entered the workforce, they learned the hard way that pay was about 20% of the union promised them it would be, then the union blamed the auto plants for lying to them. They rallied people to strike, and then riot. This just made companies start to look elsewhere for a hub, and Alabama, Tenn and Georgia were more than welcoming to them and even helped keep unions out.

When black workers in the 50's realized they were being scammed they protested the union itself, and in the 80's Canada's auto workers left the union entirely.

Two years back many union executives were charged with racketeering, embezzlement, and tax evasion including two former presidents for essentially stealing millions from their workers taking settlements and kept most of the cash in the union instead of giving it to the workers.

Great article on the "golden" era.

www.smithsonianmag.com/history/separating-truth-myth-so-called-golden-age-detroit-auto-industry-180972139/


Again here, greed is at the heart of the problems. Which is why modern unions always fail. They no longer represent the people, but themselves as they are themselves businesses with profit in mind.

This is the main cause of the death of the automotive industry, corrupt unions.
I am not anti-union in a conceptual sense, unrestrained power in the hands of the employer leads to essential slavery and unions exist to temper that power and hopefully keep the pendulum somewhere near the center.
The relationship between the left leaning political parties and the unions has caused enormous problems for the countries where these relationships exist.
With the money that flows from trade unions to the DNC along with support, there was an increasing propensity to turn a blind eye to increasingly corrupt behaviour.
The auto industry killed the goose who laid the golden egg by defending laziness and opposing steps to increase productivity at every step.
I saw an interview with a Toyota executive about them closing manufacturing in Australia, the cost of labour is similar in Australia and Japan, the factories are identical... Yet the Japanese plants produce twice as many cars.
Japan is not a sweat shop, they have strong labour laws, this is simply a case of laziness being tolerated in Western countries and being defended by unions, to the point that they have overseen the destruction of thousands of jobs over ideological arguments.
Simply for the case that many union officials desire political office and there is a well trodden path of sticking it to business.

Jan 19, 2022 19:41:22 GMT KITN said:

"Free choice through capitalism" is a fucking fallacy because everything in the world is basically owned by less than a dozen companies. There is no "competition", there is no "free market", it's a fucking scam. 




Capitalism has made the world worse for literally everyone but the ultra-rich and those who simp for the ultra-rich, who are exactly as miserable as everyone else who isn't rich, but they get a fucking boner from their misery and seeing their business-daddies amass ever-greater money and power. 

This is not a secret, all of this information exists and everyone in America could source product from the little guy instead if they so chose...
The issue is that people will choose the lowest prices and see the independents put out of business and then blame the great beast of 'Capitalism" for their own selfish decisions.

Little guy cannot afford to compete since to make it in the US to main stage you need to have lobbying power.

///

Once thing I am absolutely certain of for reform is that companies will start to ban contacting employees through email or text after this year. Because holy shit is some of this stuff awful looking and if they restricted these conversations to the phone or in person so many of these fucked up conversations getting posted would remain buried.

Always wondered why the labs I worked in had such strict communication rules and now I know. We would never have an event like this occur as the topics were all in person topics not email topics.

Judge dropped the injunction in the ThedaCare / Ascension case after workers testified even if they could not start at Ascension, they would never return to ThedaCare. They can start their new jobs tomorrow. Very likely judge will throw this case out as he was rather pissed when the details were revealed in court what this was all about.


Also the antiwork crew now moving to a name and shame framework.  If this takes will get nasty as it will remove the power employers have over workers after they leave as well to keep workers silent.  Gonne be fun if it takes.  Burns the down the old norms of never discuss your wage and never talk about your boss entirely.  

Jan 25, 2022 0:53:43 GMT c said:

Judge dropped the injunction in the ThedaCare / Ascension case after workers testified even if they could not start at Ascension, they would never return to ThedaCare. They can start their new jobs tomorrow. Very likely judge will throw this case out as he was rather pissed when the details were revealed in court what this was all about.


Also the antiwork crew now moving to a name and shame framework.  If this takes will get nasty as it will remove the power employers have over workers after they leave as well to keep workers silent.  Gonne be fun if it takes.  Burns the down the old norms of never discuss your wage and never talk about your boss entirely.  

The not discussing money is 100% a historical tactic of the ruling class to keep the working class uninformed and poor.
This is the same reason why schools don't teach about mortgages and credit cards, because it is in the interest of the machine to keep the average person in debt and ignorant.

Antiwork subreddit is gone for now. Some of the mods talked to Fox and as expected looked like idiots and the Trumpers trashed the subreddit forcing it to close or get banned. Every major news site covered them today.

Here is the great interview that goes exactly like you would expect.  This is exactly why ManvsGame denied every Fox News request to interview him about streaming.  

Edit:  Wow before they shut down the antiwork went like nuts internally and part of the closure is because a lot of the community is pissed the head mod went on Fox utterly unprepared.  A lot of the community moved to /r/collapse a related subreddit dealing with the inevitable collapse of this era of modern society in the US.  Melodramatic lot, but politically the US is tearing itself apart, and the economy is in such a deep bubble when it pops it could lead to economic collapse of most small businesses.  

Here is the clip.  

Being reported that middle management is now quitting their jobs are record rates. Execs are telling middle management they do not want to hear about the worker shortage and it is on them to cover if there is not about employees to keep their stores profitable. So management is getting burnt out and just saying fuck it it is not worth the hassle. Also companies are having trouble promoting to management as people are turning down the 15% to 20% raises saying it is not enough to justify the added stress.

The onion model of management is shedding. With these low and middle level managers quitting, only a matter of time before upper management starts to bail as well. People are starting to realize that getting shafted on pay for the work they are doing is not just a low level thing, but effects everyone who is not at the top.

fortune.com/2022/01/25/why-managers-are-quitting-during-the-great-resignation/

iNCY , if you want a laugh go to the antiwork subreddit today. It is a leopards ate my face situation as the posters now are attacking the mods as a corrupt "ruling" class. Should give you a few laughs.

I was kind of waiting for this as the marxist posts crept in. I mean, this is like what the socialist protest movement excels at; losing sight of the big picture and attacking each other.

Since I know some will find it hilarious, here are highlights:

I can’t believe how painfully ironic it is that you have some authority and you exerted it incorrectly and then immediately refused to acknowledge it or correct it on this sub which is literally dedicated to holding those who do exactly what you did accountable

How can you possibly be that blind to this painful irony?

Getting on to the actual purpose and content of the post: I agree, that appearance was incredibly foolish. Regardless of how the mod performed, this was always going to be a damaging hit piece. That should have been realized by the mod team, but also, the mod team should have listened to the subreddit when we collectively said it was a bad idea. You are moderators, this does not make you the leaders of this sub, just curators. Going 180 degrees against the wishes of the sub is a bad look and very damaging. The damage control that is happening right now is the wrong kind. All posts upset about the interview are being removed. This shouldn't happen. What should happen is the mods should note the outrage of the community and act in the future in the interests of the community (ie. Don't do interviews with media).

I told you all of this would happen in two very specific posts outlining what the media's plan was for Antiwork and a lot of you listened but still, I got trolled hard for it.

I told you guys this was going to happen. I have worked in journalism and PR for years and even when everyone agreed with me, a VERY vocal minority of anarcho-whatever-the-fucks decided that we don't "need" leadership qualities among the group, we only "need" the group.

I am a casual reader, but there seems to be a clear separation between the users who think this subreddit is about:

Stagnating wages
Improving workers rights
Highlighting illegal or abusive practices
Exploring how to best raise issues at work or legally

Meanwhile, the moderators seem to have created the subreddit to discuss:

Abolishing coercive labor and capitalism
Universal Basic Income
Anarchism

I don't understand how this sub can continue without reconciling these differences. Without coming to an understanding, the userbase will always be at odds with the mod team.

Will add more as I read through this mess.

Edit:

Hilarious exchange with the mod who went on Fox afterwards.  

i.redd.it/fb4yr4lex2e81.png
​

The drama is getting sweet now.

TL;DR: Sub leaders need to shut down the entire sub because they have done more harm to the cause than can possibly be compensated for in any meaningful way, OR recognize that the membership of the sub no longer represents its stated mission, and either change the rules to favor only their (using a mod's own words) "radical anarchist" positions, OR change the mission statement to reflect the will of the members (and any mods who cannot represent this value step down or be removed).

Threatening to ban someone just for being a hiring manager basically.  Also this mod decided to do a bunch of interviews today, which should be hilarious since they never actually worked.

www.reddit.com/gallery/se3t5r

Mod appreciation thread (self.antiwork)


lol jk fuck you mods no one likes you, respects you, appreciates you, or wants you here.



Hey, while you're here though: what do you get when you cross an antiwork mod with 100 kg of festering cat shit? Give up? Usually nothing but sometimes if you wait nine months you get a third reddit mod, so that's cool I guess.

Mod who appeared on Fox either "stepped down" or was removed.  But more accurately rolled his account and was just readded as a mod.  

Goddammit this story just gets more and more insane. So the guy who appeared on fox is being accused of rape.  And by their own words, the person consented while drunk and that was good enough for them.  Also there is a lot of self-confessed fucked up shit that they did.  This self-destruction of Antiwork will be legendary in internet lore.  

Nothing good can come of answering a media request unless you're just a grifter.

Reminds me of a recent change.org campaign some low-life started within my organisation around changes to working conditions, and it read like a confession of a party boy detailing drug and alcohol abuse and made the organisers look like idiots despite their best intentions.

I find it hard to believe that a trans person with a sexual assault history would be stupid enough to go on Fox and talk anarcho-socialism. Tucker so gonna make her the face of the young left as she is everything he has claimed the left was in the past two years. A sexual predator who is now trans, that appears to be utterly detached from reality, that also feels that people owe them money just for existing. Fuck you could not makes a better caricature for the left than her.

///

Well looks like the main crisis is over. Both mods that did media were removed and deleted their accounts, and their alt accounts were deleted. Or banned outright by reddit admins who likely will not be wanting this not to become another The_Donald situation. Along with these two getting removed 1/3 of the mods left.

The people of the forum are demanding the anarch shit be purged and it become a labor reform subreddit. The people who do support anarcho-socialism are being openly mocked for being the idiots they are. Not clue if the subreddit reforms or not, but if it does not will be dead by the end of feb.

Personally, this disaster does make me extremely fucking happy. This proves one thing I been saying since Occupy. Movements need leaders, platforms and PR or they will destroy themselves as the stupidest people will become the face of the movements. Also, movements need to purge the anarchs as soon as possible as without fail anarchs destroy all large scale protests movements. Battle for Seattle, Occupy, BLM and now this all defaced and made to look horrible by allowing the anarchs to stay. Let the right have these fucks, as anarcho-socialism will never exist as long as people have desires.

Jan 27, 2022 21:25:07 GMT c said:

I find it hard to believe that a trans person with a sexual assault history would be stupid enough to go on Fox and talk anarcho-socialism. Tucker so gonna make her the face of the young left as she is everything he has claimed the left was in the past two years. A sexual predator who is now trans, that appears to be utterly detached from reality, that also feels that people owe them money just for existing. Fuck you could not makes a better caricature for the left than her.

///

Well looks like the main crisis is over. Both mods that did media were removed and deleted their accounts, and their alt accounts were deleted. Or banned outright by reddit admins who likely will not be wanting this not to become another The_Donald situation. Along with these two getting removed 1/3 of the mods left.

The people of the forum are demanding the anarch shit be purged and it become a labor reform subreddit. The people who do support anarcho-socialism are being openly mocked for being the idiots they are. Not clue if the subreddit reforms or not, but if it does not will be dead by the end of feb.

Personally, this disaster does make me extremely fucking happy. This proves one thing I been saying since Occupy. Movements need leaders, platforms and PR or they will destroy themselves as the stupidest people will become the face of the movements. Also, movements need to purge the anarchs as soon as possible as without fail anarchs destroy all large scale protests movements. Battle for Seattle, Occupy, BLM and now this all defaced and made to look horrible by allowing the anarchs to stay. Let the right have these fucks, as anarcho-socialism will never exist as long as people have desires.

Well if we are going to be fair, it is not an unfair caricature if we are speaking about the moderators of Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/mevton/behind_the_scenes_of_reddit_moderators/



The left has become very good and creating and curating echo chambers of their ideas which they defend by eliminating opposition.
This is great for establishing a presence but a very poor mechanism of winning over the mainstream as /r/antiwork discovered on Fox news.

I did see the article c and in many ways the forum would have done better to field a self confessed NEET rather than someone delusional about their contribution to society.
It is to me inevitable that all "ANTI" movements eventually fail, as they only have agreement in their opposition to the status quo, but have nothing approaching consensus on what should replace it.

antiwork seemed to be started by people with very real complaints about the exploitations of workers and morphed into a an anarchist revolutionary socialist group.
Much in the same way Wall Street Bets went from a bunch of degenerate and amusing shameless gamblers to a group of anarchist anti capitalist revolutionaries.

Is it too much to suggest there is a pattern/ probably not when you look at the echo chamber of the moderators.

Always found it funny who people think run reddit and who actually does. 5 mods really run the site. 3 guys two girls IIRC since Cyxie went dark. And really the mods are treated the same way Tracey treated us by the admins. Except without supermods or amanda to bandage things up.

The anti sub is being left to die as people are moving to /r/workreform. The mods true to their anarchosocialist nature are banning everyone who disagrees with the anarchist promotion on the forum or wanting to know who will be the best person to speak for them. Workreform is the same thing in theory that antiwork was, without the anarchist or marxist crap.  Continued media coverage of the drama will def sink the antiwork name and hopefully the anarchs.

The difference between WSB and antiwork, is WSB was originally a shit post forum to mock finance since the type of posts in WSB were banned from finance. The story behind WSB gets really fucked up, since there was a lot of money involved and the reddit could be used to control the price of stocks. That self destruction was pure greed and was really to be expected. Was hilarious when that mod came out of retirement and took things to the next level banning all the active mods while he tried to sell his story to Hollywood.

Jan 28, 2022 1:59:27 GMT c said:

Always found it funny who people think run reddit and who actually does. 5 mods really run the site. 3 guys two girls IIRC since Cyxie went dark. And really the mods are treated the same way Tracey treated us by the admins. Except without supermods or amanda to bandage things up.

The anti sub is being left to die as people are moving to /r/workreform. The mods true to their anarchosocialist nature are banning everyone who disagrees with the anarchist promotion on the forum or wanting to know who will be the best person to speak for them. Workreform is the same thing in theory that antiwork was, without the anarchist or marxist crap.  Continued media coverage of the drama will def sink the antiwork name and hopefully the anarchs.

The difference between WSB and antiwork, is WSB was originally a shit post forum to mock finance since the type of posts in WSB were banned from finance. The story behind WSB gets really fucked up, since there was a lot of money involved and the reddit could be used to control the price of stocks. That self destruction was pure greed and was really to be expected. Was hilarious when that mod came out of retirement and took things to the next level banning all the active mods while he tried to sell his story to Hollywood.

That's not what WSB was at all, I had been on it for years ever since /biz/ got taken over by crypto shills.

It was made for trading that finance did not approve of. Options, rapid trading, penny stocks, ect. It rapidly became an anti-finance subreddit as people there originally were dealing with far less cash than finance and it became a meme to do stupid high risk investments.

I followed them since the World Chaos drama that drove out the "serious" day traders in favor of the new autists.

You've turned this subreddit into a cesspool of idiocy. Every post I look at is either a post from the plebs or a post saying, "Fuck the plebs!"

It's fucking astonishing how people can be so impressed at what you did. Congratulations, you made 55k. You were YOLOing, that's right, but do you not fucking realize how lucky you were? Maybe you do, but apparently the /r/all autists don't. All you did was repeatedly by puts, and it just so happened timing was on your side this time. Did you call a Chinese market crash? Did you call an oil plummet? No, all you did was repeatedly place put bets on the market, even when IV was soaring. Yeah, I've seen your explanations. "Durr hurr, I saw the support levels were broken." Bullshit! Indicators like that in the situation the market was in can mean it will move either way you delusional piece of shit! A single short squeeze and you would've been permanently fucked.

The only reason you don't see other posts like this is because the people who actually know what they're doing trading options aren't sticking their dicks through the glory hole and praying it doesn't get cut off. Everyone else has either the common sense not to gamble like a complete degenerate or they're failing because of fucking probability.

Now this subreddit is saturated with a bunch of retards who think what you did took skill and that they can become fucking millionaires by getting rich quick.

If you think I'm exaggerating just go look at this link: reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets

I foresee the death of this subreddit. If you want some predictions of how it will miserably end take a look at /r/stocks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/41koar/fuck_you_world_chaos/

Man after a crazy 24 hours on antiwork, things seem to be settling. Some of the more mature mods who wanted the forum to be based on labor reform got in touch with the reddit admins and plead their case for reforming the subreddit. With the admins blessing, and help, they purged the the anarch mods and brought in a couple of powermods from the big reddits to clean the mess up. And it appears to have worked.

Most interesting thing to come from all of this is now workreform. Very quickly workreform took on a populist edge and is becoming a right focused labor reform subreddit. It is interesting to see the socialists be baffled as to why so many populists are joining the movement and giving them a political science crash course showing you do not NEED to embrace socialism to want to reform labor, something the younger people it seems have a lot of trouble understanding. Hard schism here but with antiwork stabilizing I assume the socialists will return there, which will leave workreform to embrace the right wing.

Curious to see what happens as a right wing labor movement would be very dangerous to the business elite. The zoomers sadly lack the nuance to see they have right wing allies they could work with to push for a real change as they bought into the media hyperpartisanism.

Feb 22, 2022 4:58:35 GMT KITN said:

If I was on the board and had the power to make the rules, I would tether the CEO wages to a multiple of the lowest paid employee.
Still though, if you tried to chain workers salaries to an uncapped compensation structure tied to productivity... The unions would fight you every time.

Depends on the country. In the US they would be down for it. Our unions are very, very different from your unions though. Our unions are basically for profit associations more akin to guilds. You want to work in a union field you pay the union and in return you get nothing.

US unions are pretty much powerless these days thanks to some dipshit from California in the 80s.

Things getting fun now. With the world reopening firms are trying to recruit labor from other other countries to fill the gaps, while remote workers are increasingly leaving the US entirely as countries allow digital nomad vistas.

Feb 22, 2022 12:33:01 GMT c said:

Things getting fun now. With the world reopening firms are trying to recruit labor from other other countries to fill the gaps, while remote workers are increasingly leaving the US entirely as countries allow digital nomad vistas.

Have you read the 4hr work week?
Timothy Ferris does amazing podcasts, I recommend the one he did with Ryan Holiday... But before all that he wrote the book and was kind of the father of the digital nomad entrepreneur movement, but it's cool to see that spilling into the general population.

Overheard two old heads talk about "nOBody wANts to WORk" today and I just can't wrap my mind around it. Not the whole wanting the work thing, but the talking point of getting paid not to.

How? Where?

I get some (usually billionaires) working the System but how are people getting paid more to sit at home? I know the pandemic causes many states to perpetually extend unemployment... is that still going on? Also a 1200 stimmy 2 years ago can't be a thing... especially not when the rich get millions every month on our dime. I just don't get the narrative. And people are getting 3k a month to sit at home Luke Harper style... sheeeeeeeeeet wouldn't you? Tell me where to sign and I'll do it too. No, people just don't wanna work 6+ days a week for minimum wage and I'm sorry but the 20/hr we offer IS min wage.

Apr 22, 2022 3:00:30 GMT @ness said:

Overheard two old heads talk about "nOBody wANts to WORk" today and I just can't wrap my mind around it. Not the whole wanting the work thing, but the talking point of getting paid not to.

How? Where?

I get some (usually billionaires) working the System but how are people getting paid more to sit at home? I know the pandemic causes many states to perpetually extend unemployment... is that still going on? Also a 1200 stimmy 2 years ago can't be a thing... especially not when the rich get millions every month on our dime. I just don't get the narrative. And people are getting 3k a month to sit at home Luke Harper style... sheeeeeeeeeet wouldn't you? Tell me where to sign and I'll do it too. No, people just don't wanna work 6+ days a week for minimum wage and I'm sorry but the 20/hr we offer IS min wage.

Generally, they're talking about millennials and Gen Z who are staying in the family home for a couple of decades more than the boomers did and at least one decade more than the Gen Xers
As a result, most don't have any pressure at all to earn income, they live at home all their meals are provided for and when they want to do something expensive they will go get another job.

Our stimulus destroyed the job market in Australia, the number of people who chose to drop shifts because of the money they were making on jobkeeper was crazy.

The other thing in the US which may be taking pressure off people to work is the ban on evictions.

Finally, the issue is that many businesses can't afford to pay staff what it will cost to get dependable staff.
I know most of you will scoff, but their is a limit to how much someone will pay for a coffee and crossaint or getting landscaping done. Once you cross those thresholds people just won't get the services done.
This is the reality in my country, businesses make do with less people but they're paid more. In the US you'd have three people on 45k each, here it's one person in 75k.

I suspect young people are living with parents longer because housing prices are not reasonable. There has been a shortage of houses and apartments in my area for years, even before COVID. Where I am, you needed a salary of $80k in 2017 to afford the median house. In 2019 it jumped to $90k. In 2022 it’s $110k. I bought my house in 2009 and it has nearly tripled in value.

@ness I don’t think people are getting paid to stay home. Rather people have decided they will no longer work shitty jobs for low pay just to fund bullshit consumption. Getting cheap housing can be the tricky part, but once you get that figured out you can adjust your habits and lifestyle to get by on relatively little money. Those old heads are just bitter.