Stolen from wreddit. Interesting topic and I’m curious to hear yours.

Essentially it’s what moment caused a “butterfly effect” and changed wrestling forever?

A couple examples pulled from the thread:

-Triple H never takes part in the curtain call and wins King of the Ring as planned. Austin doesn’t win that year and we don’t get the “Austin 3:16” promo.

-that kid that asked Dave Meltzer on twitter if ROH could ever sell 10k tickets and basically started AEW. Meltzer said not any time soon and Cody basically said “I’ll take that bet.” This led to All In in 2018.

-The ending to the women’s multi match at Wrestlemania XXX was sort of botched. Naomi wasn’t supposed to tap and AJ Lee was supposed to cheat to win, setting up a rematch the next night on Raw. Because of this, they changed the plan and called up Paige.

What are some of yours?

Tessa Blanchard fucking over Impact Wrestling. This eventually led to Eric Young reigniting his career with the best work of his career.

Madusa not throwing the WWF Women's title in the trash thus Vince being less paranoid than usual when dealing with the Bret Hart situation two years later.

Fuscient media getting the nod to buy WCW

"Best worker in the Hart family" Owen safely executing the Tombstone on Austin

Verne Gagne actually being a progressive thinker and giving Hogan the nod in AWA. Or at least maybe having Greg be a bigger influence in the company, I dunno...

Harley Race buys what Vince is selling and leaves NWA as champion for the WWF before Starrcade '83

Bálor hadn't got injured - 2016

Nexus had won - 2010

Butch Reed had showed up to taping where he was slated to win the IC belt in the 80s. Since he didn't show, it lead to Honky getting the belt and starting his record run.

Great topic. We could keep this going for months.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned the big one yet- What if Hulk Hogan never jumps to WWF? Everything changes since that's THE moment where wrestling's modern era begins.

What if no Montreal Screwjob?

What if ECW finds a hands off financial backer a la Rick Rubin with SMW?

What if WWE management takes Hardcore Holly's advice, gives him the belt, then he beats everybody?

Austin's whole run feels like a ton of potential what if branches.

A lot of Austin's push feels like varying moments in time that could've changed everything.

No wcw ceiling would he just have been another Luger attraction main eventer?

Kotr, Shawn's smile, the broken neck, walking out... all events that if gone to plan would not create what it did. WCW and NWO sure... that's why it was 83. Vince was not prepared and like from jump luck just fell in his lap. It's literally the vince voice meme. "Glad I thought of it" - like he's the real life Jameson. JK Simmons for the Vince movie.

Did that ever happen?

My memory might be a little shaky but IIRC the Taker/Mankind Hell in a Cell match went the way it did because Undertaker had a broken foot, insisted on having the match anyway and Foley bumped like a madman to make up for the Deadman's lack of mobility.

If Undertaker wasn't pushing through an injury the match might have been more of a regular cage match, no throw from the top, no thumbtacks, no Foley pulling himself off the stretcher with a smile on his face and who knows how things play out from there for his career, and for hardcore wrestling?

Apr 13, 2022 1:14:20 GMT Baker said:

What if WWE management takes Hardcore Holly's advice, gives him the belt, then he beats everybody?

Baker-man asking the real question here.

What if WCW wins the Monday Night War?

One day I might do my best to try answering some of these questions.

Apr 13, 2022 1:14:20 GMT Baker said:

Great topic. We could keep this going for months.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned the big one yet- What if Hulk Hogan never jumps to WWF? Everything changes since that's THE moment where wrestling's modern era begins.

What if no Montreal Screwjob?

What if ECW finds a hands off financial backer a la Rick Rubin with SMW?

What if WWE management takes Hardcore Holly's advice, gives him the belt, then he beats everybody?

I mentioned Hogan in my post.

What if Hogan doesn't sign with WCW in 1994 is almost equally as interesting as the WWF one.

Do Austin, Pillman, Foley, Dustin Rhodes, Triple H and Benoit ever leave WCW?

Is Nitro created?

If no Nitro, are there an Outsiders?

If there's still an Outsiders, who is the third man?

If no Nitro, is there a WCW Cruiserweight Division? What does new style wrestling look like without it?

If there is no Monday Night War, does WWF ever feel the need to gain attitude?

Is there a wrestling boon?

What the fuck does either company look like going into the 21st Century?

Does ECW survive longer due to getting poached less by the not as competitive atmosphere?

Is there an ROH with ECW living past 2002?

Mark Jindrak not annoying Triple H and remaining the fourth guy in Evolution rather than Batista always felt like an interesting one.

There are plenty of injury examples I'm sure, but a big one for me would be Lita not getting injured in 2005 so that she and Trish could have their planned Wrestlemania match. Lita would have won the women's title, and Trish could have then rehabbed her back without taking the title with her - and we probably wouldn't have had so much of that crappy Ashley Massaro vs Vince's Devils feud which was a low point for the division.

Apr 13, 2022 3:33:48 GMT Kilgore said:

What if Hogan doesn't sign with WCW in 1994 is almost equally as interesting as the WWF one.

Then you would almost have to go what if steroids hadn't become a hot button issue in the early 90's which leads me to....

What if Vince did go to jail and Jerry Jarrett was left running the WWF in 1994

Since HR brought up injuries, what if...

Magnum TA isn't involved in a career ending accident?
Sting doesn't get hurt a few weeks before he's scheduled to beat Flair for the NWA Championship while the iron is still hot?
Steve Austin isn't out for nearly a year in 99-00?
RVD doesn't get hurt just when ECW could most use him?
Triple H isn't out for over 8 months during which time the entire Invasion angle came and went?

*Those are the untimely injuries that always stuck with me.

Apr 15, 2022 1:02:39 GMT Baker said:

Since HR brought up injuries, what if...

Magnum TA isn't involved in a career ending accident?
Sting doesn't get hurt a few weeks before he's scheduled to beat Flair for the NWA Championship while the iron is still hot?
Steve Austin isn't out for nearly a year in 99-00?
RVD doesn't get hurt just when ECW could most use him?
Triple H isn't out for over 8 months during which time the entire Invasion angle came and went?

*Those are the untimely injuries that always stuck with me.

HHH’s is the biggest to me, but it absolutely worked out best for him.

Undertaker disappearing in 1999 leading to ABA is another.

Also wonder what would have happened if Lita never broke her neck filming a TV show. How would Lita/Trish ended up?

What IF ALI didn't get hurt? there would be no Kofimania.

What if Sting fell and not Owen?
What if Gino Hernandez never died?
What if the Invasion angle work?
What if Bret won in Montreal?
What if Ken Shamrock had won the title like he was suppose to in 99'?
What if Kevin Nash had debuted first and not Scott Hall?
What if X-pac had never joined D-X?
What if Chris Benoit never left WCW while Champion?
What if Ahmed Johnson sister wasn't sick, would he still have gotten the title like he was suppose too?

I kinda feel like people are misunderstanding the butterfly effect here, which is that big changes come from seemingly-inconsequential events (i.e. a butterfly flaps its wings and it causes a hurricane halfway around the world).

For example, Flair having to change his style due to a plane crash (he was originally a big meaty strongman wrestler but had to change afterwards) and how moving from power to grappling likely played into his Nature Boy persona is significant, but then again a plane crash is significant so I don't think it quite counts.

A (presumed) mosquito bite completely defined Steve Blackman's career.

It gave him malaria, which left him bedridden for a couple of years, and during his recovery process picked up martial arts and led to the Blackman we all know and love. It'd be a bigger butterfly effect if Blackman's WWF career went further than it did.

Daniel Bryan, on a whim, grabbed Justin Roberts' tie to choke him out during the infamous Nexus invasion. (This was not scripted out, and was a decision Bryan made in the heat of the moment.) It led to DB's firing, which led to his rehiring and face turn when he joined Team WWE at Summerslam and everything takes off from there. If he's not fired, then he remains with Nexus, goes down with the ship and becomes yet another What-If in WWE history. AJ Lee likely doesn't go as high as she does, since a big part of her rise was her mentally unstable flirtation angle between them and Punk and Kane. There's certainly no Yes Movement. Possibly no Kevin Owens/Sami Zayn/Finn Balor/Gold&Black NXT, as Danielson/Punk were proof of concept that indy wrestlers could work in WWE.

All because Daniel Bryan happened to see the ring announcer's tie.

What if Undertaker wasn’t sick & Cena didn’t have to step in for him against Angle?

Thought of one. Had to reference Wikipedia but I remember reading this ages ago.

Ricky Steamboat asked for time off when he was Intercontinental Champion so he could be with his wife while she gave birth. Vince decided to punish Steamboat by having him drop the title to Butch Reed, but Reed didn’t show up and Honky Tonk Man took his place. This started his legendary IC title reign.

Steamboat was still being booked like shit after his return which led to him joining NWA/WCW. He tried coming back to WWF a couple years later but they stupidly tried to reboot his character and booked him in a squash to The Undertaker, so he quit again. Steamboat would then go on to help WCW get over, gave TNA a boost in the early 2000’s, and spent the later years of his career helping young talent better themselves, like his ROH feud with CM Punk for example.

Punishing Steamboat for requesting time off and letting him leave without a fight resulted in Honky Tonk Man’s record IC title reign and may have directly resulted in the WWF having strong competition for the next decade, and gave rise to the indy feds that bred the future of NXT and AEW.

Apr 16, 2022 4:50:30 GMT System said:

What if Undertaker wasn’t sick & Cena didn’t have to step in for him against Angle?

What is this a reference to? Cena's TV debut?

Here's one I got from listening to Kane on Brisco & Bradshaw's podcast earlier today- the Kane gimmick originally came about because Vader got arrested in Kuwait. wwfoldschool.com/the-kane-thing-came-about-when-vader-got-arrested-glenn-jacobs/

Apr 16, 2022 17:41:48 GMT 🤯 said:

Apr 16, 2022 4:50:30 GMT System said:

What if Undertaker wasn’t sick & Cena didn’t have to step in for him against Angle?

What is this a reference to? Cena's TV debut?

Yeah. I know Cena has everything Vince is looking for but having your TV debut against Kurt Angle in a fantastic match instead of

Coming out & squashing Scotty 2 Hotty or something like that definitely isn’t as memorable.

That could be a big one. They obviously didn’t know what to do with Cena when he was Prototype or whatever, then he had that debut and it literally kick started a new era of WWE.

What if The Rock wasn't the host of WM27?

Probably wouldn't have rebooted his Hollywood career, well to the level that it is now....and I guess....we wouldn't have had those Cena v Rock matches....or that Cena/Rock v Truth/Miz match.

Apr 15, 2022 1:02:39 GMT Baker said:

Since HR brought up injuries, what if...

Magnum TA isn't involved in a career ending accident?
Sting doesn't get hurt a few weeks before he's scheduled to beat Flair for the NWA Championship while the iron is still hot?
Steve Austin isn't out for nearly a year in 99-00?
RVD doesn't get hurt just when ECW could most use him?
Triple H isn't out for over 8 months during which time the entire Invasion angle came and went?

*Those are the untimely injuries that always stuck with me.

I always thought that if Triple H wasn’t hurt, he would have been the one to join The Alliance and not Austin. I think The Power Trip sticks together a little longer, Austin and Triple H eventually feud, then Triple H aligns himself to The Alliance in order to defeat Austin.

I think the Alliance angle completely jumped the shark when Austin joined them and the entire storyline would have been light years better if it ended up with Triple H in that role. It makes WAY more sense.

Apr 13, 2022 1:14:20 GMT Baker said:

Great topic. We could keep this going for months.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned the big one yet- What if Hulk Hogan never jumps to WWF? Everything changes since that's THE moment where wrestling's modern era begins.

I feel like this one is less "what if Hogan never left AWA?" and more "what if Verne Gagne knew what he had?" Hulkamania was alive and well in 1983 but Gagne kept having Hogan lose the title. If he booked him as the man he might have attracted more talent to his side and been able to do something with that.

I guess there's also the fact that money was in play. I don't think Gagne could have made Hogan the multi-millionaire he became quite as quickly. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I don't know. But it seems like Vince was always going to be able to steal Hogan away.

If Hogan never goes to WWF there's no boom in the mid/late 80's because the WWF didn't have anyone like Hogan. He was one of a kind back then. Then Randy Savage doesn't become "the hottest free agent in town" and sign with Vince in 1985. He probably also stays in AWA. Does Roddy Piper leave Jim Crockett in 1984? Who else jumped ship in the mid 80s that probably wouldn't have?

Gotta be honest... I really never bought into the idea that Cena was on the chopping block until he randomly did the rapper for Halloween. It's something they pushed that they I just never bought into. But it's interesting to think about if the Taker thing is true. Maybe he truly was just a random and got lucky.

Apr 18, 2022 0:55:08 GMT @ness said:

Gotta be honest... I really never bought into the idea that Cena was on the chopping block until he randomly did the rapper for Halloween. It's something they pushed that they I just never bought into. But it's interesting to think about if the Taker thing is true. Maybe he truly was just a random and got lucky.

I don't think he was on the chopping block just more that he was another plain muscle head that the company didn't know what to do with. When he got to cut that ruthless aggression promo on Angle something sparked.

I don’t think Cena was close to the block at all but it was probably in his head and a possibility a year down the line? It’s definitely played up on though.