Jul 10, 2024 13:34:35 GMT @ness said:

I attended a tour of some adult education courses last week. Honestly while hvac was the focus I gotta say welding looked pretty good in its own right. No doubt there's gonna be a big skills deficit coming soon. They basically said all the old heads retiring and took the knowledge with them.

I swear dude I wish I had gone that route in high school or right after. It felt like they almost actively discouraged normies to do anything but 4 yrs of book learning instead of trades which seemed to only be pushed on the disabled kids.

Of course during the tour I was low-key fantasizing about being the schools maintenance when I saw their closets. Just dreaming about changing lights on a scissor lift...

I am fully qualified to change lights on a scissor lift and I did it when I was an apprentice. For me it was mind numbing, I was pushed into a trade by an overly pushy father despite being not great with my hands.
I found my niche in fixing machinery.
The brain drain you are speaking about is real, right now electricians of a skill level similar to mine or better are on around 160k per year on salary, more with overtime.

It's literally getting to a point where I am tempted to get back on the tools, machines are at a point where they are stopping and nobody can get them running. You could literally name any price you wanted and get paid... @ness it's not about the electrical skills, it's about having the knowledge of how to understand and diagnose systems... Any type of systems.

My dream would be to start and run a consultancy teaching people how to think in systems and problem solving.

Let’s start a collection to send Ness to Oz

Kind of funny how pro-trade people do not realize that colleges are the ones now teaching most trade skills. Major colleges run most of the certification programs. The whole college is a waste of time you should learn a trade instead makes no sense when to work in most trades you need those certifications from the colleges anyway.

Jul 11, 2024 0:31:39 GMT c said:

Kind of funny how pro-trade people do not realize that colleges are the ones now teaching most trade skills. Major colleges run most of the certification programs. The whole college is a waste of time you should learn a trade instead makes no sense when to work in most trades you need those certifications from the colleges anyway.

I am not sure if you read the article, but that was clearly articulated.
The difference is that apprentices are paid their wages while they are attending school.
I did my trade and as part of it, I went to "Trade School" one day per week for three years, though most trades instead it is one week per month.
We call it Trade School, but it is college.

For a long time in Australia we had a distinction, we had Universities and TAFE, which stood for "Trade and Further Education"
Now the lines are all blurred and the TAFE's normally call themselves "Institutes" or "Colleges" as you can do a bachelors degree there or at a University.
We don't have the same snobbery around where you get your degrees here, unless it is for a really high-paying job where the school you did your MBA at matters a lot, otherwise it is the same testing pretty much everywhere.
When I did my apprenticeship, the course I did was technically called an Advanced Diploma in Electrotechnology, if I ever wanted to do further study this would give me credits against a degree in the same field.

It is nice that prior learning is recognized in such a way.
Nobody here is anti-learning, it is only that the traditional route of learning requires people to make a huge gamble at a young age with very little insight on the return on their investment.

Jul 11, 2024 16:13:40 GMT iNCY said:

t's literally getting to a point where I am tempted to get back on the tools,

My field guys go squirrely if they are off the tools too long. They just put on guys in planning and while he is being magnanimous he can't wait to get back out there.

3 of our 'colleges' changed to Universities. 

Hell if anything I wish more colleges offered these certificates. I think taking courses here and there at a local community would suit me better than crash courses 20 hrs a week for 9 months. Sadly the ones I looked at don't, only the career center and I'm not sure I have the stamina for it after work.

Got to watch those crash courses and boot camps as they offer certificates but certification. I help people with stat stuff a lot in my spare time these days and the ones that usually understand stats the least were ones who came through boot camps. Anyone can offer a certificate, and most means jack shit.

What do you guys think of Universities making you take more than the courses you need to fulfill your degree requirement?

Jul 11, 2024 21:42:34 GMT iron maiden said:

What do you guys think of Universities making you take more than the courses you need to fulfill your degree requirement?

It depends on what you think higher education is for. If you think it's just for getting a job certification then it's probably a waste of time. I think college is for more than getting a job so courses that round you out as a person are important.

Jul 11, 2024 21:42:34 GMT iron maiden said:

What do you guys think of Universities making you take more than the courses you need to fulfill your degree requirement?

I am totally against it.  And if you look at education, only the lower levels do this.  Starting at the master levels every class is relevant.  

But the way you get general educational shit, is non-educators push on the board that students need education in XYZ to be "educated."  So we needed reading, writing, mathematics, civics, history, some science, some art, physical education, then diversity and suddenly now half the classes needed are not related.  Then in the majors there is a similar fight for what should be required versus recommended.  

One thing people need to know is the goals of college education vary based on who you asked.  For some it is strictly education on a topic.  For others it is a broad general level of knowledge.  For others it is students need to learn to communicate about a variety of subjects.  For others it is job skills.  Then in the 90's it was a transition to adulthood.  Newer goals are for people to become informed citizens and to be prepared to live in a diverse world.  College administrators have to balance all of these goals when deciding what classes will be required.  Start to ignore any of them and the college faces major backlash.

Everyone believes they knows what it is best for education, often without understanding that people want very different things from education.  It is a real mess.  So we get this one sized fits none model we have now where colleges have breath and depth requirements to try to please everyone.

I am team job skills.  Think people should do breath based on their major, but then depth be job related.  Gen education should be cut unless related.  Stupid that two years of a four year program are not related to your field of focus.  This also will allow more specialization at the end, as you can allocate more classes to really honing in a career.