And goddamn Hobb got bigger o.O

Nov 3, 2022 1:28:52 GMT CM Punk'd said:

SHIBATA!!!

Please elaborate.

Nov 3, 2022 5:13:37 GMT Emperor said:

Nov 3, 2022 1:28:52 GMT CM Punk'd said:

SHIBATA!!!

Please elaborate.

New Japan's Katsuyori Shibata's gonna face Orange Cassidy for the All-Atlantic Title on Friday.

Nov 3, 2022 5:13:37 GMT Emperor said:

Nov 3, 2022 1:28:52 GMT CM Punk'd said:

SHIBATA!!!

Please elaborate.

After Orange Cassidy pinned Rey Fenix to retain the All-Atlantic Championship, PAC attacked Orange with a series of stiff kicks. His assault was interrupted when Shibata's music hit and Katsuyori slowly made his way to the ring as PAC powdered out. Orange gathered himself, picked up the All-Atlantic title and a clipboard containing a contract for a dream match. Shibata pointed at the title, so Orange offered him the contract and Shibata signed. The segment ended with both guys sizing one another up.

One of the stipulations for the All-Atlantic Three-Way between Orange, Fenix and Luchasaurus is that the winner could face their dream opponent.

Jeff Jarrett in AEW means I will be watching AEW again.

Has Jarrett really been awarded an office job? Director of Business development? The man who lost his company to Dixie Carter? Ok...

Nov 3, 2022 8:33:59 GMT NATH45 said:

Has Jarrett really been awarded an office job? Director of Business development? The man who lost his company to Dixie Carter? Ok...

Apparently he had the same job in WWE and did a good job but left when Vince stepped down. I dunno it’s still weird. I’m not happy to see him but I’ll let the angle flesh out a little before I make up my mind.

Question is, if this is an invasion, is this going to be like an Impact/ROH alliance thing? Or is this just JJ and some random dudes being annoying? Guess we’ll see.

…

I worked late so I didn’t see the whole show but caught all the clips and highlights. The match order was weird but from what I heard about Moxley vs Moriarty I’m glad it wasn’t the main event.

Shibata vs OC should be fun. I think I was more hyped about the announcements for future shows than the show itself.

They’re really scraping the barrel with these debuts.

Who’s next? Sid?

Nov 3, 2022 12:56:38 GMT @aaron said:

They’re really scraping the barrel with these debuts.

Who’s next? Sid?

I want Dustin Rhodes to turn into Mick Foley and wrestle as himself, Goldust and Seven.

RT Don’t forget Black Reign!

Jarrett is a huge pickup as he has decades of experience doing large live events. Like others said, he was doing this for Vince until HHH took over and swapped in Road Dogg. This is mostly an office job too.

As an on air talent, JJ draws with a certain crowd that likely is not watching AEW. If AEW was smart, they would use him as an on air authority figure to make matches. AEW desperately needs someone in that role to explain why people are getting the matches they do as the system they try to use now makes no fucking sense.

The Jeff Jarrett stable could go either way. If it's just for a match against Sting/Darby at Full Gear it'll be a fun comedown match before the main event. However the segment seemed to suggest they'll be hanging around longer which spells trouble. The last thing AEW needed was an outsider taking up precious television time, especially somebody who has already done everything known to man like Double J. I can see this overstaying it's welcome, especially when you factor in Jay Lethal.

Back to Shibata and while it's a cool moment for fans of his, the segment itself was just really flat. Fans carry on about casual fans and the like but what I think they're really saying is that the presentation is really lacklustre. Why should we care about Katsuyori Shibata? He looked so stiff getting into the ring, like he didn't stretch properly and pulled multiple parts of his body getting down there. It also looked like he'd gotten out of a nap and was squinting towards the ring. At least that's what we could tell because they kept cutting back to PAC who looked like he was going to fight him until Shibata's entourage followed suit and turned it into a 4-1 fight so he bailed.

I know TK enjoys surprise appearances and sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad. However, AEW has struggled to present these NJPW guys as stars and usually, they just job out to whoever they want. Either you have to let the matches speak for themselves and build a legacy or just book them as a palette cleanser.

Nov 3, 2022 16:27:42 GMT c said:

Jarrett is a huge pickup as he has decades of experience doing large live events. Like others said, he was doing this for Vince until HHH took over and swapped in Road Dogg. This is mostly an office job too.

As an on air talent, JJ draws with a certain crowd that likely is not watching AEW. If AEW was smart, they would use him as an on air authority figure to make matches. AEW desperately needs someone in that role to explain why people are getting the matches they do as the system they try to use now makes no fucking sense.

I think a power struggle to determine an on-air authority figure would be pretty interesting. They have several stables headed by non-wrestlers at the moment that would all make good authority figures, and could sic their respective "teams" on one another while also trying to recruit wrestlers that are being underutilized.

Jeff Jarrett
Stokely Hathaway
Mark Sterling

Probably one or two others I'm forgetting. Vicki Guerrero could be one but she's only used when Nyla Rose is and it would be tough to include them when all the other stables consist of men.

Julia Hart being a wild card in the mix as the figurehead of The House of Black could be cool.

Nov 3, 2022 17:14:37 GMT Big Pete said:

Back to Shibata and while it's a cool moment for fans of his, the segment itself was just really flat. Fans carry on about casual fans and the like but what I think they're really saying is that the presentation is really lacklustre. Why should we care about Katsuyori Shibata? He looked so stiff getting into the ring, like he didn't stretch properly and pulled multiple parts of his body getting down there. It also looked like he'd gotten out of a nap and was squinting towards the ring. At least that's what we could tell because they kept cutting back to PAC who looked like he was going to fight him until Shibata's entourage followed suit and turned it into a 4-1 fight so he bailed.

I know TK enjoys surprise appearances and sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad. However, AEW has struggled to present these NJPW guys as stars and usually, they just job out to whoever they want. Either you have to let the matches speak for themselves and build a legacy or just book them as a palette cleanser.

I don't blame TK for this, I blame the fact that almost nobody from NJPW knows how to do a run-in or surprise appearance and make it special because they almost never do them. Even Kazcuhika Okada looked awkward as hell when he showed up. Thank god they did it in a city that knew his music and they reacted accordingly.

Shibata got big responses the other times he showed up so they probably figured it would be fine, but apparently Baltimore didn't really give a shit this time. I guess you could blame TK a little for not recognizing the weaknesses that NJPW talent have in moments like this. He could have switched it up a little. Someone popping up in the ring and drilling PAC with a roundhouse kick before everyone realizes its Shibata would probably have got a bigger reaction. Also his music is so quiet. You can't rely on that music queue when you can barely hear it or recognize it.

Nov 3, 2022 12:56:38 GMT @aaron said:

They’re really scraping the barrel with these debuts.


Who’s next? Sid?

🤯 you see this sacrilege?

Nov 3, 2022 17:14:37 GMT Big Pete said:

The Jeff Jarrett stable could go either way. 

Jeff Jarrett stable! Now I'm even more intrigued. I only saw him El Kabong...that guy. Who's in this stable?

Nov 3, 2022 22:04:43 GMT Baker said:

Nov 3, 2022 12:56:38 GMT @aaron said:

They’re really scraping the barrel with these debuts.


Who’s next? Sid?

🤯 you see this sacrilege?

Nov 3, 2022 17:14:37 GMT Big Pete said:

The Jeff Jarrett stable could go either way. 

Jeff Jarrett stable! Now I'm even more intrigued. I only saw him El Kabong...that guy. Who's in this stable?

I'd pay a Baker's dozen dimes to see old ass Sid powerbomb @aaron's dizrizpektfool ass into oblivion.

Didn't see much problem with Shibata's entrance. Yeah the music is not the best but he got a good reaction and walked down to the ring like he always does. Not segment of the year but a decent enough way to set up the "dream match".

So, will Jarrett peddle pyramid schemes or is he just pushing gold?

Jeff Jarrett is awesome so I'd be down for him being an on-air authority figure.

Nov 3, 2022 23:56:43 GMT Baker said:

Jeff Jarrett stable! Now I'm even more intrigued. I only saw him El Kabong...that guy. Who's in this stable?

His tag team partner from Flair's last show - Jay Lethal and his crew. Lethal's former friend/foe Sonjay Dutt, Dutt's prized Indian signing former NBA prospect and giant Satnam Singh. On the same night, Cole Karter also debuted as a fake-out surprise new member only for Double J to appear. Cole Karter was formerly known as Troy Donovan of Tony D'Angelo's family - an Italian Mafia gimmick on NXT 2.0 before being released for a 'policy' issue. He was apart of QT's jobber stable 'The Factory' made up of disgruntled rookies before this appearance.

The Lethal pairing makes sense because they have history but there's a few concerns. First off, Lethal is a polarising figure and had some sexual assault accusations made against him. These were never followed up on, but his name has been smeared so there's a contingent of fans who resent him for that alone. The other problem is that Lethal is just a gate-keeper wrestler who's lost the majority of his televised matches and yet he gets more screen time than other talent and he's facing guys like Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy and Wardlow who gain little by beating him. Finally, there's the TNA connotation and on a show where they have a roster of 100+ wrestlers and most can't make it onto TV fans don't want to see a TNA revival project. It's like when Jarrett tried to bring back the NWA in 1998 and outside of the awesome theme music (honestly the theme music is the only reason I want to make this point, have you heard it lately? it's a Top 10 Attitude Era theme!) it just took up time.

If the stable only exists for a short term program with Sting, it'll be fine but if it lasts longer I can see it grating on AEW fans who are already worn down by the ROH cross-over stuff which took up a fair chunk of this program.

Baker What you know if you are not on AEW is they are teasing Sting vs Jarrett. If you not see Sting lately, he is working matches fairly regularly. He is not as crisp as he was, but he is still solid. And he is going with like indy guys and keeping up. Pretty crazy to see really given his career was ended not too long ago. Far better than WWE Sting too. More like late WCW Sting.

JJ is doing his Last Outlaw gimmick, which is basically full on Memphis heel. It is his best work. He has also been doing indy matches keeping up. Again, he is not young man, but doing the Memphis style, he does not need to be doing the crazy moves of the kids.  He has a very Lawler vs ECW feel to him coming into feds as a legend and fighting the next generation.  I assume Sting is not his only target as many of the guys will kill to work Jarrett.

That all said, not sure you will like AEW at all, so skip to his stuff and matches if you cannot stomach it.

Nov 3, 2022 19:45:06 GMT RT said:

Nov 3, 2022 17:14:37 GMT Big Pete said:

Back to Shibata and while it's a cool moment for fans of his, the segment itself was just really flat. Fans carry on about casual fans and the like but what I think they're really saying is that the presentation is really lacklustre. Why should we care about Katsuyori Shibata? He looked so stiff getting into the ring, like he didn't stretch properly and pulled multiple parts of his body getting down there. It also looked like he'd gotten out of a nap and was squinting towards the ring. At least that's what we could tell because they kept cutting back to PAC who looked like he was going to fight him until Shibata's entourage followed suit and turned it into a 4-1 fight so he bailed.

I know TK enjoys surprise appearances and sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad. However, AEW has struggled to present these NJPW guys as stars and usually, they just job out to whoever they want. Either you have to let the matches speak for themselves and build a legacy or just book them as a palette cleanser.

I don't blame TK for this, I blame the fact that almost nobody from NJPW knows how to do a run-in or surprise appearance and make it special because they almost never do them. Even Kazcuhika Okada looked awkward as hell when he showed up. Thank god they did it in a city that knew his music and they reacted accordingly.

Shibata got big responses the other times he showed up so they probably figured it would be fine, but apparently Baltimore didn't really give a shit this time. I guess you could blame TK a little for not recognizing the weaknesses that NJPW talent have in moments like this. He could have switched it up a little. Someone popping up in the ring and drilling PAC with a roundhouse kick before everyone realizes its Shibata would probably have got a bigger reaction. Also his music is so quiet. You can't rely on that music queue when you can barely hear it or recognize it.

Wasn't his only other appearance at Forbidden Door? See that segment was an effective way to get over Shibata, but that was over four months ago and so much has happened since that whatever impact that made has been lost.

Like I said, maybe in this instance TK had his hands tied and just had to scramble to find a way to announce Shibata/OC for Rampage. I agree with both you and Emperor, on it's own it's not a huge problem but it goes back to that point fans make about 'casual' fans. When people make that point, they're not speaking for others, they're criticising the presentation and that's an issue that persists to this day.

On a show that already had so many post-match altercations and surprise appearances it didn't really do anything to sell the match. If you just announced it via video package and replayed Shibata wiping out the United Empire it'd be just as effective and wouldn't make the show feel as repetitive.

Maybe they just had to bite the bullet, hopefully the match delivers. If it's just a match, they really need to re-evaluate how they use NJPW wrestlers on the show.

Big Pete I swear Shibata showed up one other time but I can't remember when it was. c might be able to recall. Maybe I'm thinking of something else though.

RT, Back at Forbidden Door maybe?

Nov 5, 2022 5:29:45 GMT NATH45 said:

RT , Back at Forbidden Door maybe?

RT thinks there could have been another appearance. I'm pretty sure FD was his AEW debut and I don't recall there being another appearance.

I must be thinking of something else.

Nov 4, 2022 5:22:07 GMT c said:

1. Baker What you know if you are not on AEW is they are teasing Sting vs Jarrett. If you not see Sting lately, he is working matches fairly regularly. He is not as crisp as he was, but he is still solid. And he is going with like indy guys and keeping up. Pretty crazy to see really given his career was ended not too long ago. Far better than WWE Sting too. More like late WCW Sting.

JJ is doing his Last Outlaw gimmick, which is basically full on Memphis heel. It is his best work. He has also been doing indy matches keeping up. Again, he is not young man, but doing the Memphis style, he does not need to be doing the crazy moves of the kids.  He has a very Lawler vs ECW feel to him coming into feds as a legend and fighting the next generation.  I assume Sting is not his only target as many of the guys will kill to work Jarrett.

2. That all said, not sure you will like AEW at all, so skip to his stuff and matches if you cannot stomach it.

1. This all sounds great. And you raise a good point about Memphis style. All it takes is brawling and bleeding. An easy style to pull off for a 55 year old man who has been doing this sort of thing since he was 19.

2. Only seen two episodes of their main show + a handful of matches/segments involving wrestlers I like. First episode wasn't long after they started. I did not like that episode. Main was Omega vs. Janela iirc. 2nd was around the time of this year's Wrestlemania. It was just kind of there, but I didn't hate it or anything. It was the one where Punk botched a lot in a 6 man and Jericho got a ton of mic time. Main was Moxley vs. one of those young guys. It was better than the Raw I watched around the same time. I plan on tracking down JJ's segments until it gets stupid or I get bored with it.

Nov 3, 2022 0:02:48 GMT CM Punk'd said:

Darby Allin vs. Jay Lethal's the opener.

I'm loving this feud. I popped when I heard Jeff Jarret's theme in AEW. Wild shit.