In the Starrcade '95 thread, this post got me thinking:

Dec 22, 2022 1:22:24 GMT Ed said:

I hated this era of WCW. I started watching the WWF & I loved Hulkamaina but I will never grasp the idea that Bischoff had of allowing Hogan to infest the roster with his boys. As of Eric didn't give a fuck about insulting the WCW/JCP diehards by copying & pasting most of the shit from the fed that they hated.

I hated this era in WCW, too (and the WWF, although it was starting to get a little better by the end of '95, at least). And it's just dire to imagine what WCW would be without the nWo. Feel like when we reimagine WCW, it's often just before Hulk joins, and we do our little alternate universe where there's a New Generation of WCW wrestlers that include Austin, Pillman, Foley, Rhodes, and we can get cute and say Triple H never leaves, and it's just a good time. 

But what about after the damage is done by Hulk? And all the young guys with potential are gone? And there is no nWo angle to drastically turn things around? Is there any scenario where WCW is good? Ever? Does it go out of business faster? Or with no highs, does it just maintain as a bad #2 for longer? 

It might even be equally interesting to imagine how WWF changes being a bit more log jammed at the top with Hall and Nash never leaving. How does this alter Austin, Foley and Triple H's ascent? 

Just want to see some Starrcade's and WrestleManias in this universe. Who are the big winners and losers career wise. Have a blast because I'm at a loss trying to imagine it, but it feels like literally everything about wrestling would be for the worse, dominoes falling in only bad ways. 

The possibilities are endless. Maybe not good! But endless.

The Kliq gains even more power in WWF. We get a revolving door of HBK/Diesel/Razor PPV mains while HHH & Kid regularly hold midcard gold. The Clique then becomes a dominant heel faction at some point. Bret sees the writing on the wall and leaves for WCW in mid 96, taking Bulldog with him while poor Owen is stuck in WWF due to contractual obligations. The Clique does everything in their power to keep Austin & Rock down. It probably works.

WCW continues to relive the 80s with Hogan vs. a revolving door of fatties and old rivals + Flair/Sting/Luger continuing to feud for the rest of the company's existence.

I read in the Observers that Hogan was not a fan of WCW signing them for the money they were paying, he was campaigning for them to sign Ultimate Warrior and/or Yokozuna in that time in 1996.

While my memories of wrestling around that time are spotty and I def wasn't paying attention to backstage dirtsheets at the time, I don't think Hall/Nash would have run roughshod over the WWF the way they did WCW.

Dunno when Hall's drug issues started, but if he had stayed in WWF as a singles act he doesn't have a faction to cover for him on the days he's not feeling so ring-ready so IMO unless he gets it together on a much faster timeline he flames out, spiraling down the card and may or may not be released.

Nash I'm torn on, mostly because the details of that era are a bit hazy. I kinda remember Hulkamania being rejected over in WCW (the flawless superhero bit getting old), and here's Diesel over in the WWF as Big Daddy Cool, the ambiguous trucker/biker. Does he face the same fan apathy? Can he reinvent himself in a time where 'wrestlers with jobs' gimmicks were going away? The jump to a completely different company made it much easier compared to retooling yourself while still on the roster, and at the main event level. Not everyone is Undertaker.

There's no Curtain Call so HHH is never punished and Austin never wins King of the Ring. I don't think Austin's rise is stopped, necessarily, but the interesting question is what happens with Hunter? Without Nash jumping, I can see a scenario where Michaels stays with Diesel as Dudes with Attitudes or whatever their name was, and maybe there's no DX. Things had to fall in place a very specific way for Hunter to get to the top, and even then had to be forced down the throats of the fans for a few years and fed all of Mick Foley's credibility before we went 'eh, sure.' He probably suffers the most in this scenario.

Bret, I'm going to guess, largely plays out the same way. HBK was already pegged by the boss as a top guy and still feels threatened by Hart, Hall/Nash feel more secure about their spots and largely don't care as long as the checks keep getting signed. They won't hurt him but they won't help him either.

Same with Rock; HBK and HHH might want to hold him down but if Hall and Nash look at him and see dollar signs then that's all that matters. Oh no, the writers might give this guy the fake title in the fake sport for half a year before the writers have you win it back. Get over it.

================================

WCW I largely see as becoming proto-Black and Gold NXT. Clearly not the #1, but since they'd already started bringing in luchadors and had the working agreement with NJPW, along with Bischoff's "let's find out what they're not doing, and do that" attitude they've got everything in place to be the smark choice.

Hulkamania would have been running wild in front of diminishing audiences.

If there's one thing that's become clear over the years it's that Bischoff had no plans outside of pushing the Hogan brand. The show would have still revolved around him, except without Hall & Nash coming in, Hogan would have remained American Made and continued to recycle old feuds.

Bash at the Beach 1996 would have seen Randy Savage fresh off his feud with Ric Flair take on Hulk Hogan only to lose and get battered pillar to post until Hogan returns after filming Three Ninjas and making the save. Hogan would win the title, likely on the next night of Nitro building towards a Halloween Havoc 96 feud with babyface Hogan taking on the jealous heel Savage. Hogan wins but before he can celebrate Piper returns and chats his ear off to end the PPV - building to Starrcade '96. That match would end in some shmozz where the title is declared vacant allowing Hogan to take another break and somebody else would have to step in and hold the belt.

Whether it's Lex, Savage, Flair, Sting or the Giant it doesn't really matter. Hogan wins the belt defeats Piper only to be challenged by Bret. Bret beats Flair in lieu of the title and I could see Hogan/Bischoff be more willing to do business and put the belt on Bret. However it wouldn't last long, Bret would rub them both the wrong way and lose his 'tan'. Come the Georgia Dome, Warrior would do to Bret what he did to Hunter and squash him for the belt leading to Warrior-Hogan.

I still see that rivalry souring Hogan on wrestling, so he'd 'win' but get out of dropping the title and Goldberg wins it at World War 3. Starrcade 1998 is still Flair-Bischoff, Goldberg defends against The Giant and remains champion until being screwed out of it by Flair. Savage returns around Slamboree '99, finds himself with the belt only to drop it to Hogan and we're essentially right where we're at post-Road Wild 1999 with babyface Hogan taking on a freshly turned heel Sting. Bischoff is out the door and I could see Turner already beginning to cut WCW's budget well before this.

I touched on Hogan, but what about the other guys?

Sting would continue to work but he'd be relatively aimless. After finally feuding with Lex, Sting would bounce around feuding with the Horsemen, DDP, Piper etc. and working the odd B-PPV main event. He may even get a title run at some point, but he's the 1B to Hogan always.

Lex would turn heel, likely still team with The Giant and just be another body in that main event scene. I think his best chance for success is still 1997 and having him drop the belt to Hogan.

DDP wouldn't get as over, but I still think he'd be OK. The thing was after the Battle Bowl, DDP was already gaining momentum. The Diamond Cutter was over, the feud with Eddie gave him a spot on the card and with a lack of options I could see Savage taking a shine to him. They seemed like two very like-minded guys and DDP wasn't afraid to shine Savage up for their program so I could see that still playing out. I could also still see him bringing Raven in and feuding with him and doing something with Goldberg. I'd say the major difference would be '98 and I could see him being Bischoff's lackey taking on Hogan-Leno.

I still think Vince worms out of his agreement with Bret and WCW are even more desperate to sign him and use him. I think they go in with even better intentions to push him, but both parties realise they're unsuitable and it falls apart.

Goldberg wouldn't get as over but he was still a stand-out and I could see them doing more business around '99 since there wouldn't be that tension between WCW and Barry Bloom.

Ted Dibiase and Curt Hennig - I failed to mention both but I could see them playing bigger roles in the company. Dibiase would likely take over the Dungeon of Doom and have Hogan work some other guys. Instead of working with Flair, I could see Curt shifting his attention to Hogan and doing the favours there with Rick Rude getting involved.

If Nash stays, considering the tweenery edge he'd been perfecting since losing the belt, I could see him getting really over and beating Stone Cold the the punch and locking down that spot.

If we know Nash is staying in the WWF (and Razor) we don't need to rush to Good Friends, Better Enemies per se. Either Undertaker or Warrior seem like more natural number one contenders. But for fear of throwing a more over face at a barely over face in new champion Shawn, I'll go with Vader. We're never going to make a "WCW guy" our champion anyway, so perfect sacrificial lamb. The April IYH is rebranded as a more fitting "In Your House: It's Time".

Meanwhile, Nash faces a returning-from-suspenson Razor at IYH: It's Time to get a little momentum back after the UnderMania loss.

Shawn/Vader ends in a schmozz thanks to outside interference from Camp Cornette. Diesel & Razor, of all people, come to Shawn's rescue after Diesel & Razor shake hands and hug instead of wrestling their match earlier in the evening. Kliq is quickly becoming an onscreen thing.

May's PPV is branded In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies and pits Kliq (champ Shawn, Diesel & Razor) against Camp Cornette in a six-man main event tag. Shawn pins perennial fall guy Owen with a Sweet Chin Music counter to some springboard maneuver foreshadowing the Shelton Benjamin finish a decade later.

Camp Cornette continues the job tour, as Owen & Bulldog drop the tag belts to Diesel & Razor on RAW after outside interference from special guest color commentator champ Shawn. At KOTR '96, Owen & Bulldog fail to reclaim their belts from Diesel & Razor. In fact, they job in embarrassingly quick fashion with Owen eating an immediate Backlund-style jackknife to lose in the opening 10 seconds. It all happens so fact, Bulldog isn't even paying attention yet.

Meanwhile, the KOTR '96 main event features champ Shawn retaining against Vader in a Last Man Standing match by using a camera cable to hogtie Vader after Vader misses a moonsault. On the undercard, Hunter wins the 1996 tournament as a make-good for the Warrior job at WMXII. Let's say Hunter wins the crown by defeating Stone Cold in the finals? Hunter goes all in with his aristocrat gimmick being essentially royalty, and dubs himself King Hunter Hearst Helmsley the Third (to set up one day becoming Triple HHH³).

The July PPV is rebranded In Your House: Gauntlet for the Gold. It features a tournament intended to undermine the KOTR by pitting 8 much bigger names against each other in a one-night winner-stays-in series of matches to determine the number one contender to the WWF World Championship at SummerSlam. The 8 names are the tag champs Diesel & Razor, IC champ Ahmed, King Triple HHH³, Sid (surprise replacement for Warrior), Owen, Bulldog, and Vader.
- Ahmed starts against Owen, eliminating Owen in relatively quick time after Owen makes Ahmed look like a GOD.
- Ahmed then bests Bulldog in a battle of brute strength.
- An exhausted Ahmed pulls off a miracle, catching Vader on his shoulder mid-moonsault for a snap powerslam and pinfall elimination. The move legit injures Ahmed though... -_-
- Triple HHH³ takes advantage of an exhausted and injured Ahmed, eliminating him pretty quickly after reversing a Pearl River Plunge into a backslide and putting his feet on the ropes for extra leverage.
- Razor sends King Triple HHH³ packing.
- Sid, replacing Warrior, powerbombs Razor out of the gauntlet.
- Diesel emerges as the victor in an impromptu battle of the powerbombs by jackknifing old rival Sid.
(In the main event, Shawn retains against the Boy Toy-infatuated Goldust.)

At SummerSlam, we get the months-delayed Shawn vs. Diesel no holds barred encounter from the real life IYH:GFBE. We also get King Triple HHH³ arguably upsetting Razor to win Ahmed's vacated IC title. Camp Cornette seems to implode on the undercard when Bulldog takes on Owen, and then Corny sics Vader on them both in a schmozz finish after Vader beats former camper Yoko in an earlier bout.

Cornette pairs Vader with Sid to form the Masters of the Powerbomb in the WWF. They win the tag titles off Diesel & Razor at the September PPV, In Your House: Mind Games. Razor takes the fall, eating a moonsault from Vader after a powerbomb from Sid, after Diesel walks out on his partner. The main event is largely the same as real life with Shawn vs. Mankind ending in DQ thanks to outside interference from Vader & Sid.

October's PPV, rebranded In Your House: Dead or Alive!?, features:
Cornette's new tag champs Sid & Vader retain against Smoking Gunns; IC champ King Triple HHH³ retaining against Austin in a heel vs. heel deal; Razor gaining a measure of revenge by defeating Diesel to become the number one contender to the WWF Championship at Survivor Series, and Shawn retaining his title against Mankind in a Falls Count Anywhere, Anything Goes match after an assist from Undertaker.

Survivor Series is main evented by a rubber ladder match between Shawn & Razor, each with a win under their belts, but this time with the world title on the line instead of the schmuck IC belt. On the undercard, Undertaker defeats Mankind in a delayed Buried Alive match. Diesel gets his win back from a year prior by defeating a returning Bret Hart after not falling for the same small package trick two years in a row. King HHH³ and tag champs Sid & Vader get prominent pushes in the assorted Survivor Series tag elimination matches.

We experiment at the end of the year by having Shawn defend against Undertaker. Match ends in a mega schmozz to help set up and hype the Rumble after Diesel, Bret, Razor, Mankind, Sid, Vader, Goldust, Bulldog & Owen all interfere. Worth nothing, Owen & Bulldog are now back on the same page thanks to big brother (in law) Bret being back. With his guidance, they gain a bit of revenge on Cornette by winning the tag belts from Sid & Vader.

Royal Rumble is "supposed" to be Cornette's night via the Masters of the Powerbomb. Sid is supposed to win the belt from Shawn in Shawn's hometown of San Antonio, and Vader is supposed to repeat his Rumble dominance from last year but this time win to set up a Masters of the Powerbomb WrestleMania main event for the world title. But things rarely go they way they're supposed to...

Shawn retains against Sid in their real life awesome match. Replace Austin's role in the Rumble match with Diesel, and keep everything else mostly the same. Cheater Diesel wins after returning to the ring following his elimination. Meanwhile, Razor gets his win back over King Triple HHH³ to reclaim the IC title.

February's PPV is still In Your House: Final Four. Main event is still the same, just replace Austin with Diesel. It's still for the vacated world title because Shawn still loses his smile because he doesn't like the plan of dropping the belt back to Bret at WrestleMania. So Bret wins the world title, and who dafuq knows what's going on in the home stretch to WrestleMania 13.

Through all sorts of fun chaotic swerves and pivots in the final weeks, including up until the go-home RAW, we end up with a WrestleMania 13 card that looks like this:

Owen & Bulldog def. LaFon & Furnas, The Headbangers, and The Smoking Gunns to retain their tag titles in a four corner elimination match.

European Title: King Triple HHH³ def. Rocky Maivia to retain his relatively newly won title.

Stone Cold def. Goldust to assert himself as the woulda/coulda/shoulda-been future of WCW.

Chicago Street Fight: Ahmed & The Legion of Doom def. The Nation of Domination (Faarooq, Savio Vega & Crush)

Ladder Match for the IC belt: Razor def. Mankind after Mankind takes some hella crazy bumps.

Sid def. Vader in a Powerbomb Battle where the first to hit the move wins, and the loser must stop using the maneuver in their repertoire.

Rage in a Cage: Shawn vs. Diesel ends in a draw after both escape at the same time.

World Title: Undertaker def. Bret to win the title and keep his WrestleMania Undefeated Streak™ intact.

Just for fun, in the 1996 I imagined in the previous post, knowing nothing really about WCW, how cool would it be for pissant Warrior to somehow jump to WCW for a Hogan/Warrior/Savage vs. Flair/Sting/Lex six-man mega main event at Bash at the Beach!?!?

Giving meaning to the often typod Triple HHH (HHH HHH HHH) gets all the dimes.

Dec 22, 2022 14:51:09 GMT 🤯 said:

Just for fun, in the 1996 I imagined in the previous post, knowing nothing really about WCW, how cool would it be for pissant Warrior to somehow jump to WCW for a Hogan/Warrior/Savage vs. Flair/Sting/Lex six-man mega main event at Bash at the Beach!?!?

The fans would turn on Warrior so quick. :lol:

To paint the picture, WCW was a lot like WWF in 2002. The promotion was being dominated by a rookie sensation in The Giant who tore through everyone - Flair, Sting & Luger with Kevin Sullivan serving as his mentor. Hogan just straight up took time off the company to film Three Ninjas - Kevin Sullivan considered this a victory despite losing a handicap match to Hogan upon's Hulk's exit.

Meanwhile Savage was just finishing up his feud with Flair. This was a great continuation of their 1992 rivalry, with Flair dating Liz and cashing in Savage's alimony payments - treating himself and the Horsemen to 5-star ring-side dinners.

Sting & Luger had a strained relationship as goody two-shoes Sting disagreed with Lex's win-at-all costs mentality and his association with that no-good Jimmy Hart.

Also Kevin Greene swore revenge against Mongo after Mongo swerved him at the GAB to join up with the Horsemen. That storyline lasted an entire year...which was a common theme in WCW.

I want to know something.

There was no bigger fan of Pro Wrestling than Bake in the 90s. If there was I haven't met them...

So prey tell, December 28th 1997 what were you doing? We all know you weren't watching the biggest PPV of the decade, Starrcade, so what else could have been happening that day? Did you have to wash your hair or something?

This is also open to pi and any other WWF-lifers. Did you treat yourself to a big serving of schadenfreude?

Dec 23, 2022 13:46:56 GMT Big Pete said:

I want to know something.

There was no bigger fan of Pro Wrestling than Bake in the 90s. If there was I haven't met them...

So prey tell, December 28th 1997 what were you doing? We all know you weren't watching the biggest PPV of the decade, Starrcade, so what else could have been happening that day? Did you have to wash your hair or something?

This is also open to pi and any other WWF-lifers. Did you treat yourself to a big serving of schadenfreude?

These were the years I was still watching via dated tapes. I was probably up to In Your House: Rage in the Cage at worst or maybe SummerSlam 1997 (possibly Ground Zero: In Your House) at best by December 1997?

Dec 23, 2022 13:46:56 GMT Big Pete said:

I want to know something.

There was no bigger fan of Pro Wrestling than Bake in the 90s. If there was I haven't met them...

So prey tell, December 28th 1997 what were you doing? We all know you weren't watching the biggest PPV of the decade, Starrcade, so what else could have been happening that day? Did you have to wash your hair or something?

This is also open to pi and any other WWF-lifers. Did you treat yourself to a big serving of schadenfreude?

"Did you have to wash your hair or something." Get his ass, Big Pete. 

You know I was watching Starrcade '97 live. I was at my 7th grade best friend's house, Jimmy T, an nWo 4 life comrade (first person I indoctrinated into the ECW revolution), and we were HYPED beyond anything I can articulate. Really don't remember much except the finish of Hogan and Sting where we were absolutely dumbfounded. Part of us were happy Hogan won, but Sting pinned clean as a whistle, no sign of a fast count, it was just too weird and anticlimactic to truly enjoy. Also, after the match, Sting looked into the camera and yelled something in Spanish, and we were just like, what is happening? 

Dec 23, 2022 13:46:56 GMT Big Pete said:

I want to know something.

There was no bigger fan of Pro Wrestling than Bake in the 90s. If there was I haven't met them...

So prey tell, December 28th 1997 what were you doing? We all know you weren't watching the biggest PPV of the decade, Starrcade, so what else could have been happening that day? Did you have to wash your hair or something?

This is also open to pi and any other WWF-lifers. Did you treat yourself to a big serving of schadenfreude?

An excellent question! Sorry for the delay. Had a busy few days. This hair doesn't wash itself! 

You're right. I obviously wouldn't have been watching Suckcade 97. Or even thinking about it. Once I got past those admittedly rough first few weeks, maybe a month, not watching WCW became second nature. By this point WCW only existed for me as The Adversary. My only interest was in relation to how they'd screw over my beloved WWF. OK, maybe not quite "only" since I did keep some tabs on Flair as well. Just saw Flair wasn't even on Suckcade 97. They deserved to go out of business!

Anyway, this would have been during Christmas break which paradoxically makes figuring out what I was doing that day both easier and harder. Harder because Christmas break would effect my usual schedule due to having so much pure, unadulterated FREEDOM (c would have hated it!). But easier because it means my wrestling fan cousin definitely would have been on one of his frequent extended visits dating back to Christmas (family XMas party was at our house in those days). He was basically my 2nd brother from the early 90s-2000. Chances are at least one of my other wrestling fan friends (Rick) was also spending the bulk of his days and nights at my residence. UNLESS we all spent Saturday night crashing at another house- likely the Three Brothers if that's the case. But let's just assume we all stayed at my house that Saturday night.

Being a Sunday, morning would have started late (we were late to bed, late to rise by this point) with a delicious breakfast of pancakes and perhaps eggs, sausages, and/or bacon. My dad always made a proper breakfast on the weekends and I suppose he had to feed the entire community most of those weekends. 

After breakfast we might have slipped in a USWA event. Chances are we slipped in a lot of USWA events during the 1997 Christmas break. And I reckon one of those events would have been a LAWLERMANIA*!  But I wouldn't have allowed too many events during one break. Because USWA 'seasons' were 8 events in between Lawlermanias and I understood the importance of build. Too many Lawlermanias too quickly would have diluted their importance. So I might have nudged them into an ECW event (where Abe "Knuckleball" Schwartz was a big star for some reason) instead. Or perhaps we watched my brother do one of his SMW shows? I don't think Full Moon Wrestling was a thing yet, but that would have been another option if it did exist so early as late 97. 

* Big Pete over there erroneously calling Starrcade 97 "the biggest PPV of the decade." I'll concede it was the biggest PPV of that particular month since IYH DX was the first WWF PPV in 10 glorious years of fandom that I had zero desire to watch. But Starrcade 97 wasn't the biggest show of the month. Because that honor goes to LAWLERMANIA!

EDIT: Come to think of it, FMW did start up right around this time. The inspiration for FMW was Tim Horner gone rogue, and the inspiration for rogue Tim Horner came from the Cornette shoot I mention a little later in this post. So it's possible, even likely, FMW was born during this Christmas vacation. Very cool! This also means those Titantron cards I mentioned and shared in my Wrestling Figure League thread may have been born during this vacation. Even cooler! Marconi & Stalletto for the win.

Then it would have been time for some football. Now this was Wild Card weekend and that was a big deal! But the games, Patriots/Dolphins and Lions/Bucs, would have been real snoozers to 1997 me. I did not care for any of those teams. Not even enough to root against them. They were all meh. The eldest of the Three Brothers was a Bucs fan, but I think he would have given in to peer pressure...

So instead of watching football, we would get up a game of pig ("pig" was 90s slang for "football" in these parts. You're welcome) ourselves at the local park. We could find 10 to throw the pig around at the drop of a hat. More without too much trouble. Our pickup game of pig was probably pretty boring because by this point whoever had my brother was going to win. It was a given. I was the best quarterback in our little clique but he was the best of the bunch at every other aspect of football.

If he was on my team I knew I could throw him a bomb for a touchdown any time I wanted to, though I'd throw to the other lads as well just to be fair. Then he'd be Ray Lewis running all over the field tackling everybody on defense and we'd inevitably blow out the other team. If he was on the other team I'd throw most of my passes to the best player he wasn't covering and make my brother run all over the field making tackles. He would, but we'd still score a lot of touchdowns by slowly matriculating the ball down the field in a manner which would hopefully break the spirit of the other team. But we run into a problem on defense since nobody would be able to stop him returning 'kicks' (throws, really) or on offense, so we'd still end up losing in the end since we eventually would be stopped once and there was no way we were stopping my brother. Anyway, I just hope the eldest of Three Brothers made it home without any new injuries. My man was always getting hurt. Nowadays I think he had a calcium deficiency, or perhaps brittle bone disease.

Then it was back home for more eating and probably catching a few minutes of those unappealing Wild Card games. Maybe Rick's mom made him go home for an hour or so. This did happen on rare occasions! Hopefully some of my dad's Christmas goodies were left. He was fond of baking. You might even say he was a baker! And he'd make delicious blackbottoms and these sugary wafery things before Christmas. Most of my cohorts were blackbottom marks, but I was all about those sugary delights. And don't even get me started on my beloved chocolate chip cookies! Which were more of a mom and us thing. Guessing my dad thought they were too easy. Not worthy of his talents.

I can't imagine we went anywhere that day. Sunday trips were more of an 80s-early 90s thing. By Christmas 1993 too many important people were either dead or relocated to Pennsylvania and we are now in Christmas season 1997.

After dinner it would have been time for more wrestling figure leagues, video games, or perhaps a movie. But probably not a movie. Movie rentals were more of a Friday night-Saturday night thing....during regular times of the year. But Christmas season is different! And we could have always decided to rewatch one of our dozen and a half go to movies for the 100th time. Now that IS possible. Or maybe Brother, Cousin, and Rick outvoted me in our quasi-democracy a few days earlier to rent The Rock from West Coast Video again? Who knows?

Probably no wrestling tapes either. We had exhausted the wrestling section at the two nearest video stores (stupid Blockbuster & West GOAT Video) about a year earlier. All the good shows we rented multiple times. And I was still a few months away from getting online and ordering as many white box ECW and NWA tapes as I could afford. ALTHOUGH I did buy a few tapes from wrestling hotline guy Tim Rowe around this time- Best of NWA Volumes 2 & 3 and an August 1995 Jim Cornette shoot (Sales Pitch: If you like what Jim Cornette has been doing on Raw, you're going to LOVE this!"). So there's a chance we watched one of those....but the chance is a slim one since this is the 28th. Cousin would have already been with us for a few days and Rick could have come over at basically any time to watch my new tapes.

So it was probably video games. We had an Intellivision (it never went out of style!), Genesis, and a series of wonky Nintendos that never really worked well. Or maybe we visited the Three Brothers or Chuck to play one of their new fangled systems? All these things are possible.

EDIT: D'oh. Forgot to mention board games. They were still big. Cards as well. Poker, Uno, etc. 

By this point it's 8:00. Time for Suckcade. Which we all no sold. Me because it was time to wash my hair and my friends because I had trained them well.

Being Christmas season, Sunday’s go to shows, The Simpsons and X Files, would be in reruns, if they were on at all. So it's unlikely we watched TV.

My most memorable Christmas gift in 97 was a one year subscription to The Wrestler. Strangely enough the only wrestling mag subscription I ever had. Alas, the heyday of wrestling magazines had already passed, and they'd soon be rendered obsolete (minus the PWI 500) once I got online a few months later. So XMas gifts don't really come into play here.

If it was summer we might be playing "Night Tag" at the park. If there was snow on the ground we'd throw the pig around on a moonlit night (way cooler than throwing the pig around during the day) and/or go sledding at one of the two local parks. But I just checked and there was no snow on the ground in the Baltimore suburbs on December 28, 1997. Couldn't do a wrestling figure league at night because the ring made too much noise. Even being in the basement it would wake my dad up all the way on the top floor. He did NOT like to be woken up by our stupid wrestling figure leagues. I had long learned my lesson on that front. ALTHOUGH we could do a World War III on one of the big blue pillows if our USWA schedule happened to call for a WW3 at that point. But that is only a 1 in 8 chance. 

At some point in the evening I'd have my nightly "meal" of popcorn and hot tea followed by a final glass of chocolate milk right before bed. In the midst of this, like clockwork, I'd complain about my stupid friends eating all my food. I would literally hide food from them! I could be such a jerk. Cousin and I were just joking about this on Christmas Eve..

So, final verdict time. What was I doing during Starrcade 97, ranked from most likely to least....

1. Playing video games at home
2. Visiting friends (where we would also most likely be playing video games)
3. Playing board games or cards

4. Watching a movie 

5. Creating wrestling themes by recording song snippets from the radio or making cards/logos/Titantrons for our wrestling figure leagues
6. USWA World War III  
7. Looking through a book/magazine (be a stretch to call it reading what with multiple people looking over my shoulder, but this did sometimes happen)
8. Watching wrestling tapes
9. Watching tv
10. Doing something outside

Dude I'm so fascinated about an earth where Nash steals Austin's spot. So much of Austin's success seems to ping on right place right time.

Curtain Call, Hogan in the way, Lost my smile, the walk out even lowkey saved his career.

One thing I've very skeptical about in WWF lore is Triple H was going to win the King of the Ring if not for the Curtain Call. On the same night of the Curtain Call, Austin vs. Jake were already working out what would become the finals match (and had been on previous cards), so unless it was going to be a totally different finals, I'm thinking Austin was already in the lead. 

I think the retelling of his punishment makes it seem like MUCH bigger deal than it ended up being. Lotta people cite the Warrior squash, but that happened at Mania well before any fallout of the Curtain Call. Dude even the Hogpen was even before that. I guess it is fitting since he never let go of the top spot from that point when he referenced it to JR... in his eyes simply being a midcarder WAS punishment.

Did he actually even "pay" like the lore suggests? Is it just another version of invading wCw. Yeha it happened but it's closer to TNA offering WWE cookies in Orlando versus SHOTS FIRED ROFL as they tell it these days.

I know all of them, had NUCLEAR HEATZ with the internet once upon a time... do you think it was all on SHOOTS that turned Nash around reputation wise. He's beloved today, but even as far back as the Punk fiasco he was repulsive online to people. Now you can't get enough of Big Sexy in front of that RF banner...

Dec 27, 2022 23:50:28 GMT @ness said:

I think the retelling of his punishment makes it seem like MUCH bigger deal than it ended up being. Lotta people cite the Warrior squash, but that happened at Mania well before any fallout of the Curtain Call. 

Exactly. Another reason why I think Austin was already in the lead, based on their respective Mania bookings. Savio Vega spent 1995 going over in pretty much every match he has (while Vince has a disgusting boner for him on commentary). Even by 1996, in his Goldust program, they were doing the deal where Vega wins by countout, so Goldust keeps the IC belt, but Vega is still going over. Vega was extremely protected, until Austin at WrestleMania, so that's pretty big win for Austin in month 4 of his WWF career. Meanwhile HHH is getting fed to Warrior. By the night of the Curtain Call, Austin is already working out the Jake Roberts final match, HHH is getting to pin Hall on his way out, but is already in line for the Marc Mero program (who is the new midcard babyface Vince has a boner for, so it's HHH who will be doing the favors in the feud, not Mero).

The Curtain Call seems to be a collective revisionism for what was already in the works.

Dec 23, 2022 13:46:56 GMT Big Pete said:

I want to know something.

There was no bigger fan of Pro Wrestling than Bake in the 90s. If there was I haven't met them...

So prey tell, December 28th 1997 what were you doing? We all know you weren't watching the biggest PPV of the decade, Starrcade, so what else could have been happening that day? Did you have to wash your hair or something?

This is also open to pi and any other WWF-lifers. Did you treat yourself to a big serving of schadenfreude?

My answer will probably be lamer than most; I'm sure I was doing homework. In '97 I woulda been 15 years old and my parents didn't want to order PPVs. We're already paying monthly for cable, isn't that enough?

Dec 27, 2022 23:50:28 GMT @ness said:

I think the retelling of his punishment makes it seem like MUCH bigger deal than it ended up being. 

This is my take. I think the punishment definitely happened. Did the research a while back in another thread to "prove" it. He was left off four straight pay per views and doing tv jobs for a cold Savio, The Stalker, and Freddie Joe Floyd among others. But I also believe it has been exaggerated in WWF lore.

While Vince's weird commentary boner for Savio is accurate, Kilgore  (who wasn't watching regularly at the time iirc) is overstating how strong Savio was booked in the lead up to the Austin feud. He also got the timeline wrong. The Goldust mini-feud came during the Austin feud, which actually gave Savio's career a nice little boost. Vega lost a lot in late 95-early 96 to the point where I kept expecting him to settle into a Holly/Aldo role. Hell, he basically was in that Holly/Aldo role! Check this out...

Goldust's 2nd televised match was a win over Savio. Vader's singles debut was a three minute mauling of Vega.  He drew with an ice cold Mr. Backlund on Superstars and was in the Mauler vs. Steve Doll role alongside Skip the night after Survivor Series when Diesel sauntered out to "shoot." He also got wrecked by Sid on Superstars, victimized by my man Xanta Klaus, and if you go all the way back to August he was on the losing end of a tag match against Kama & Tatanka, both of whom were ice cold and on their way down the card.

The only notable matches he won during that 5-6 month stretch were the upset over Waylon Mercy at IYH September and his Survivor Series match where he rode the coattails of Undertaker who eliminated all four opponents. 
==============
Big Pete is going to regret ever asking me that one simple question. Getting back to last night's masturbatory post I forgot one major detail which may render much of it obsolete. Forgot all about getting my first proper job at this rather upscale local retirement home a few months earlier in August. D'oh! It was part time. Minimum wage. Short shifts. Mon-Sat was like 3:30-7:30 and Sundays something like 9-1 or 10-2. But it's enough to change the entire complexion of the day if I happened to be working. Cousin still came for his visits btw. But I always felt sorry for him when I had to work.

There was also a Notre Dame/LSU bowl game running against Starrcade on cable that night. And not just any bowl game. The infamous WEED EATER Independence Bowl! Two powerhouse programs stuck playing in a C Tier bowl game. Now I wouldn't necessarily have cared about that game. Wasn't a big ND guy. Can only recall rooting for them twice during the 80s & 90s- vs. West Virginia for the National Championship that one year and vs. Miami in the famous Catholics vs. Convicts game. And I hadn't cared about LSU since their Tommy Hodson/David Browndyke/Wendell Davis glory days in the late 80s. But there is a chance we would have watched at least part of it at the Three Brothers house.

Funny thing about Notre Dame. Anybody in Baltimore with a drop of Irish blood (like my cousin and Rick) suddenly transformed into Brian Boru whenever they were playing (and also during St. Patrick's Day). Cousin was a homer who supported the lowly Maryland Terrapins while Rick was a Penn St. enthusiast, but I feel like both of them would have considered Notre Dame their second favorite college football team.

A Brian Boru reference in the HoW, amazing.

OK, so in my mind I pictured Bake's entire life revolved around Pro Wrestling and Christmas '97 was a stressful time. His beloved WWF was teetering, Lawlermania was beginning to plateau and WCW was on track to have one of the all-time great shows. There was only so many times he could claim indifference before he had to acknowledge that WCW was #1 and it wasn't even close.

I picture it like an election night with Baker and the gang hanging out, watching one of their beloved PPVs (not Canadian Stampede because of that traitor!) and getting updates via phone calls. The mood would start off poor but as the night wore on it would become more and more rapturous until Sting finally speaks some Spanish and by that point Bake was dancing in the streets.

The next day would have been glorious with Bake going full on Grinch mode in any WCW chatroom/fanclub he could find.

Except instead of his heart growing three sizes...well...

Instead it turns out Bake could wash his hair and have a life as well, who knew.

Also did anyone else think Deliverance when Bake mentioned Pig? Just me?

Speaking of Starrcade '97 and I need to vent...

The OSW guys recently did a review on the go-home show Starrcade. I typically enjoy their show but without fail they'll say something that triggers me. This time they were talking about how Nash got out of working The Giant and then went onto say they wouldn't face off again until The Giant's last match in WCW in 1999 when Nash happened to be the booker.

Any WCW fan could have told you they faced off at the next PPV and Nash nearly killed The Giant with a botched powerbomb - getting the move 'banned' and getting the name the Giant Killer.

Speaking of, Bake - Flair was meant to face Hennig at Starrcade but he suffered an injury before the show. DDP subbed in, won the US Belt and Flair/Hennig would never really have a proper blow-off. The closest they came was at Souled Out '99 when Ric teamed with his son David to take on Hennig and Windham after Curt got involved at Starrcade '98. Even then after the Flairs won, they were both destroyed by the nWo so badly that Ric still has heat with Hogan over it.

Maybe I have to go back and watch it, but I find it odd that Flair-Hennig have that hot angle at Fall Brawl '97. Then it never gets a proper pay off when Flair steps to Bret and they have their deal at Souled Out. I know Flair would face off against Hennig later on but AFAIK it ended in DQ.