Inspired by Baker-man relating Ahmed's heel turn to Rikishi's, what are turns (whether heel or face) that irreparably and/or at least significantly damaged the career of the wrestler involved?

Considering his upside, Ahmed's ranks up there IMO.

Rikishi's was a lesser version than Ahmed's IMO. Despite how over Rikishi's face act was, it had a limited shelf life. Fatu's entire WWF run consisted of gimmick experiments. So it felt fitting enough that they'd keep experimenting for the sake of why not... Downside risks were certainly outweighed by upside opportunities.

Austin's WrestleMan X-Seve turn was probably a career Killer despite initially resulting in some of his best in-ring and character work inside a vacuum for six-ish months afterwards. Once the storyline dust of the InVasion had settled and he reverted to the ol' Stone Cold face though, something felt off... Different. Just not the same. In no alternate universe should Austin not be main-eventing WrestleMania X-8 a year after WrestleMan X-Seve.

On the face side, I feel like it's no minor miracle Shawn & Diesel survived their respective face turns in 1995. Corporate baby-kissing faces lost so much of their distinct edge that made fans really start backing them as heels. Diesel wouldn't regain his until dropping the belt to Bret. Shawn didn't really regain his on his own... It took just being the other guy in the ring with Bret as the proxy for Vince's Montreal Screw Job.

Okay, GO!

Owen as the blue blazer killed his dead 💀

Dec 29, 2022 13:40:39 GMT @ness said:

Owen as the blue blazer killed his dead 💀

Certainly the most impactful turn... -_-

Tatanka is the other one I always lump in with Ahmed & Rikishi. Unlike the others I actually thought Tatanka joining the Million Dollar Corporation in a swerve I never saw coming was a great idea in theory. Yet, for whatever reason, it just didn’t work.

Dec 29, 2022 13:53:58 GMT Baker said:

Tatanka is the other one I alwTsweays lump in with Ahmed & Rikishi. Unlike the others I actually thought Tatanka joining the Million Dollar Corporation in a swerve I never saw coming was a great idea in theory. Yet, for whatever reason, it just didn’t work.

Great shout! Except... Wasn't Tatanka mostly dead in the water anyway by mid-to-late 1994?

This does touch upon a fun sidebar question of is the swerve always worth it? Or, phrased differently, what's wrong with predictability if it's executed well? Not sure it saves Tatanka's career per se, but him being right about Lex joining the Million Dollar Corporation just seems like it would've worked out so much better for all parties involved.

Shelton Benjamin going from plucky babyface mixing it with Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam to a momma's boy destroyed his career.

MVP pissing off the wrong people and getting a sympathetic losing streak killed his run.

His 2007 rival Matt Hardy was never the same after he turned on Jeff either and it took a ridiculous 2016 gimmick for fans to come around on him.

Ken Shamrock joining the Corporation seemed to be the point of no return for that character. After feuding with The Rock the entire year, he joins up with the Corporation to be his lackey?

Similarly when X-Pac turned on Kane and had that never-ending feud the trajectory of his entire career changed for the worse.

Buff Bagwell cutting an impassioned babyface promo only to turn heel a week or so later destroyed whatever connection he had with the crowd.

Big Show was just never the same after his turn. Same for Mark Henry and Kane!

Dec 29, 2022 13:57:52 GMT 🤯 said:

Dec 29, 2022 13:53:58 GMT Baker said:

Tatanka is the other one I always lump in with Ahmed & Rikishi. Unlike the others I actually thought Tatanka joining the Million Dollar Corporation in a swerve I never saw coming was a great idea in theory. Yet, for whatever reason, it just didn’t work.

Great shout! Except... Wasn't Tatanka mostly dead in the water anyway by mid-to-late 1994?

I wouldn't go so far as saying he was dead in the water. It was more like he was treading water. Definitely stagnated after Borga ending his undefeated streak took away his hook, but he was still booked fairly strong. Iirc he only suffered two additional televised pinfall losses between Borga and the turn- vs. Owen at KOTR and vs. Underfaker on a July Superstars. He won a feud over Bigelow and was in a war with established midcard heat magnet IRS leading up to his turn. Not the worst position on the card. I'm sure he could have rode it out for another year as Lex's little buddy. Basically in that Duggan/Strongbow role as the guy who wins more than he loses while still putting the up and coming heels over to prepare them for future matches against the even bigger stars.

This does touch upon a fun sidebar question of is the swerve always worth it? Or, phrased differently, what's wrong with predictability if it's executed well?

No! and nothing! This is a lesson I learned way back in the wild and wooly Attitude Era when nonsensical swerves were all the rage. 

Good example of both a career killer turn and a stupid swerve is Monty Brown turning heel after failing to win the TNA Championship from Jarrett when everybody and their mother thought TNA was going to pull the trigger.

Dec 29, 2022 16:21:33 GMT @aaron said:

Big Show was just never the same after his turn. 

Which one? 

Dean Ambrose's weird heel turn before his eventual departure was the killer. He was already lagging behind his Shield brothers and had been regressing for years in the ring. I know it's unfair to continually compare him to arguably the two biggest names of his generation in WWE, but he'll always be associated with Rollins & Reigns. It was the death-blow.

I'd argue it was a blessing in disguise for Moxley. It may have spelled the end of his run in the WWE, but he had AEW lined up and he's enjoyed far more success outside of the WWE than he did inside.

I'd even argue that his run as WWE Champion confirmed he couldn't be anything more than an upper-midcarder. There's nothing more uncool than having an obligation and for a guy who's gimmick was that he follows the beat to his own drum, champion Ambrose was a mistake.

Randy Orton 2004 face turn, it took a good 3 years to undo the damage done by that face turn, the original play of Randy usurping Triple H to lead Evolution then H returning as a face to fight then was a far more interesting idea than what happened. Turn didn’t even make sense, in the space of 2 hours he went from cutting a very heelish promo about how pathetic the fans are to a sympathetic face turn.

AJ Styles, sorry I’m bad with years on recent stuff, went from a main event face to a lower mid heel when he turned on Ricochet, 2019??? Funny thing is they did a face/face match with Rollins at MITB, turned AJ, demoted him then put Corbin with Rollins? Bizarre. He still hasn’t got back to a main event level since then.

2019 is right because AJ got his big thank you run in 2018 where he long ass feuds with Nakamura, Joe and Bryan back to back to back. If anything I thought that run was something of an outlier and he's always been more of an upper mid-card type in the Bryan/Owens mould.

Jan 5, 2023 15:49:32 GMT Big Pete said:

2019 is right because AJ got his big thank you run in 2018 where he long ass feuds with Nakamura, Joe and Bryan back to back to back. If anything I thought that run was something of an outlier and he's always been more of an upper mid-card type in the Bryan/Owens mould.

I won’t lie, I dropped out of WWE largely around late 2016, what do you mean by thank you run?

Jan 5, 2023 19:25:43 GMT Peepshow said:

Jan 5, 2023 15:49:32 GMT Big Pete said:

2019 is right because AJ got his big thank you run in 2018 where he long ass feuds with Nakamura, Joe and Bryan back to back to back. If anything I thought that run was something of an outlier and he's always been more of an upper mid-card type in the Bryan/Owens mould.

I won’t lie, I dropped out of WWE largely around late 2016, what do you mean by thank you run?

His fortunes turned when he flew home from an international tour to put Finn Balor over in a show-stealing performance at Hell in a Cell 2017. AJ went from stewing away in the mid-card to suddenly being booked as the Best In The World having all these dream matches against guys like Shinsuke Nakamura, Samoa Joe and Daniel Bryan.

After he dropped the title, it was back to regular transmission. Back to being in that upper mid-card and when The Undertaker needed somebody to put him out of his misery and give him one half-way decent match to go out on, AJ was there to do a 1000 takes at the height of the pandemic panic.

The title of this thread made me think of Mike Awesome and what a wild time he had in WCW.

He debuted on Nitro in April 2000 while he was still ECW champion. Then he lost it to Tazz who was a WWF wrestler.

The next month, he threw Kanyon off that big triple-layer cage and started calling himself THE CAREER KILLER (like this thread!).

Then there was the Hogan/Russo...shoot...thing at Bash at the Beach and that was it for Mike. Awesome's cousin is Hulk's nephew (Horace!) - I've got no idea what that makes Hogan and Awesome's relationship. Are they like...second cousins or something? Dunno, but they were related.

In July, he became The Fat Chick Thriller (pretty self-explanatory TBH), then That '70s Guy two months after that.

Things finally got back on track in 2001 (I think Russo was gone by then) when he joined Team Canada, then lost a Hair vs Hair match against renowned bald guy Konnan.

I know this isn't really relevant to the thread, but still.