A catch-all thread for people to put in their ideas for things that could have happened during the WCW Invasion angle in the WWF.

Match ideas, feud ideas, how/when it should have started. Be realistic or a bit more on the fantasy side of things. It is all in play.

Maybe this will help someone piece together a great Invasion rebooking at some point.

While a lot of money would need to be spent to get certain big names out of their contracts early, it could have had return on investment.

Was it Kilgore or Neo Zeed that had the idea of Hogan interfering in the main event of WrestleMan X-Seve to cause a non-contest to kick-start the Invasion? What a moment that would have been.

I can get behind the idea of striking immediately when the iron is probably hottest. But I also see the benefit of working through what you had planned out first and letting some months of those contracts be run through.

I like the idea of starting with Scott Hall, mirroring the nWo angle, coming out in the middle of a match and saying "You people, you know who I am. And you know why I'm here".

Was it Baker that suggested that the end of the Invasion should have been the nWo finally helping the WWF end WCW? Should the nWo simply be a stable within WCW for the purposes of the angle?

I think an interesting facet to the Invasion is that you might need to bring WCW back to 1998 standings to get the dream matches that fans craved. Guys who had moved up the card like Booker T might have to go back to being midcarders. Maybe even back to being in Harlem Heat to get some dream tag matches. Same with Scott Steiner. The guys who had left WCW to join the WWF and were working their way up, likes of Benoit and Jericho, may not have been happy with a full-blown Invasion angle with all the biggest names.

WCW would need to have some defectors to their side early on to seem like a threat. X-Pac is an obvious one, joining his Wolfpac buddies as Syxx again. If you can straighten HBK out, you could even have a Kliq feud in late 2001. I am all for Big Show joining WCW and becoming The Giant again, with the Andre singlet and being that way forever more after the angle.

Do you have Shane, in anger at Vince during their feud, sell WCW to Bischoff as the ultimate fuck you? Or not have it announced that Vince bought WCW on screen?

Is there a good way, in kayfabe, to explain why Vince would start booking these Invasion matches? Does WCW buy ad time during RAW and SmackDown and Vince gets pressured by the TV companies to make these matches?

Do you bring back Dead Man Taker quicker if the big names are coming in? Maybe Sting is the man that "kills" Taker and sends him away.

I do feel like Hogan vs. Rock would not have felt quite as big (still huge) as it did in a world where Hogan had been back in the company for months as part of the giant Invasion angle.

How do you do battle of the people's champs Rock vs. DDP? How do you do Austin vs. Goldberg?

How do you handle ECW? Fund Heyman and keep them open as a feeder territory? Have them attack both sides as a nuisance within the Invasion angle?

Let's hear it.

The Scott Hall idea was basically Russo's pitch in Kayfabe Commentaries.

Jan 4, 2023 23:36:55 GMT Strobe said:

Was it Kilgore or Neo Zeed that had the idea of Hogan interfering in the main event of WrestleMan X-Seve to cause a non-contest to kick-start the Invasion? What a moment that would have been.

That was me, but I've gone back and forth on what the results of this would be. Who would he attack? Both? Does it end the match? How does Vince react? Do WWF wrestlers come running out?

Part of the beauty of this to me (besides the image of Hogan/Austin/Rock sharing a WrestleMania ring together as active wrestlers) is that it really is a blank canvas. Hogan's interference can be anything, which can cause any aftermath. Now maybe you'll make me choose an actual route. 

We did cover some of this in the Random Discussion on pages 14-15 so if there's some points that are missed/repeated that's worth going back to. If nothing else you can treat yourself to a recap of Cornette's hilarious interpretation of what should have happened and how it should have culminated in a Cactus/Austin & Dusty/Hogan Wrestlemania.

That point about turning back the clock on WCW really resonated with me. That's one of the points fans seem to skim over but by the time the WWE had purchased WCW, the roster was made up of talent the audience had no interest in seeing. I think this is an era where you'd just give into the excess and come up with every dream match imaginable and try to tick all the boxes without really having a clear goal.

The one aspect fans gloss over is the implications this would have on the WWF's presentation. The WWF by this stage was well and truly in the Gerwitz sit-com era where guys like The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Edge & Christian etc. really thrived and the characters had to have a comedic bent to them. For this to work, I think 99% of that would have to change and the WWF themselves would have to go back to a 97-98 style presentation where the bulk of the show happens in the ring.

It may also have to be more of a heel territory and you'd have to have talent turn on Austin to prevent him from constantly destroying the heels each and every night or alternating it.

I also think you had to keep the McMahon stuff to a minimum. If you're trying to attract a general Pro Wrestling audience, that was one aspect holding fans back. Vince would go back to being a suit and tie guy, Steph would be Hunter's valet (in an ideal world where HHH's quad remains intact) and Shane could be a manager who takes death defying bumps. As long as we don't pair him up with Bossman, he should be safe.

Finally and I can't believe I'm saying this: the angle needed more Jeff Jarrett. No I wouldn't book him on top but just somebody you'd never expect to see in the WWF this soon who could legitimise the purchase and work anywhere up or down the card.

Speaking of, who makes the cut for WCW? Would you go full Tony Khan and just sign everybody or would you limit yourself?

Jan 7, 2023 2:04:59 GMT Big Pete said:

Finally and I can't believe I'm saying this: the angle needed more Jeff Jarrett. No I wouldn't book him on top but just somebody you'd never expect to see in the WWF this soon who could legitimise the purchase and work anywhere up or down the card.

Minus two months in 1999, I found Jeff Jarrett worthless his entire career ... But you're correct. He absolutely has to show up for maximum ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN reasons. Him smashing a guitar over Vince would be an all time great moment. 

Then with a realistic approach, unfortunately, he's probably pretty high up on the card as a WCW guy, but if we're going balls to the wall, best of WCW's history, everyone available to book, Jarrett can quickly get back the fuck down in the midcard where he belongs.

Jan 4, 2023 23:48:13 GMT KJ said:

The Scott Hall idea was basically Russo's pitch in Kayfabe Commentaries.

Yeah, his initial idea was quite interesting. Vince has bought WCW and dissolves the company, as his character would.

Out of work, the WCW/nWo wrestlers would want jobs. Hall, Nash and Hogan (the most shameless and out for themselves of the lot) come out in consecutive weeks and beg for a job but are each berated and belittled by Vince.

In the next few weeks, they don't appear but top guys are taken out in the back until one is found with nWo sprayed on him. Vince threatens the nWo and they hijack the tron during his promos.

The nWo now make it extra personal by attacking Shane and Vince himself.

Next, Bischoff appears and says he is not behind it but he can help Vince handle the nWo. Vince gives him a contract and Bischoff, lacking the trust of the WWF locker room, turns to former WCW wrestlers like Sting and Flair, and gets Vince to give them contracts.

This builds to a Team Bischoff vs. nWo match, where the nWo guys get contracts if they win. The nWo win so now all of the WCW and nWo guys are under WWF contract. Here is where it falls apart a bit with the Russo swerve. The WCW guys now turn on the top WWF guys that they have been a bit pally with and reveal they were in cahoots with the nWo all along in a ruse to get them all deals.

This is where I never like these swerves. Are we meant to believe they were not actually fighting each other in the match? Or that they were willing to kick the shit out of each other to make it seem legit? Or were they just meant to align with them after the fact?

It would almost be a situation where a Fingerpoke of Doom could work. You'd have to have the match on RAW, can't be fucking over fans that have paid. Although with a match this built up, it might be giving the game away a bit to not have it on PPV. Although it could've been a classic moment. Vince would have to be out as well at ringside. Hogan and Flair circle to start the match, Hogan fingerpokes Flair and he pins him. Cut to shocked Vince face. Cut to Bischoff smiling and turning to Vince. The 6-men in the ring embrace, laughing, then all turn to face Vince menacingly. Big Vince gulp. With WWF camera work, this could've been fantastic. Top WWF guys come out for the save before they get to Vince but they get beat down.

I guess you'd have to have the WCW/nWo guys reference ironclad contracts now. I can picture Bischoff the following week saying that "I know last week had to hurt, Vinny Mac. But I just want to let you know that through my good personal friend Ted Turner, I know the best lawyers that money can buy. And as much as I'm sure you'd love nothing more than to scream *Vince impression* YOU'RE FIRED. I need to remind you that these contracts are ironclad. And if you even so much as think about doing anything like that, I'll call in a favour from Billionaire Ted and we'll take you for every cent you're worth, Jr. And your little company too."

Not quite sure where you'd go from there, beyond this WCW/nWo faction being like the original nWo, trying to take down the WWF from within. Not sure how I'd get the other WCW guys under contract or if it would matter. Did the actual Invasion try to explain any of that? I'm struggling to remember. Why did Vince let Alliance guys wrestle on his shows?

I've been trying to remember my ECW 2001 fan fiction how it played out since you posted this and it's been a good time. I booked all that out around 2012-early 2013 on notepad file that was pretty massive and just took a few years to write it out making minor changes along the way. The project started in February 2001 and ended in May 2002, it was split into 2 parts, ECW 2001: The WWF Buyout and ECW 2002 The (R)Evolution(plagiarized by WWE about a year or so later for one of their NXT shows).

When I wrote/booked this I hadn't watched wrestling in 11 years. Even when I did watch wrestling I mostly thought it was real until there the last two or three years when I smartened up and lost interest(and stopped watching entirely after Steph was revealed as ECW owner in Invasion storyline). So keep that in mind.

I had it to where WWF bought ECW after Guilty As Charged 2001 and kept it going as developmental.

We still get the final Nitro simulcast moment I think, but the way WCW came in changed, using mostly the same guys if not mistaken. I didn't bother with all the guys that were sitting out for the contract money, I built up DDP big time. Edit: he beat Biker Taker Diesel 2.0 3.0 in a HIAC match, this killed Diesel 3 and Taker came back around early 2002 as real Taker and killed DDP for ultimate vengeance. 

But man it got crazy, somehow Shane won the rights to an all exclusive WCW pay per view in the Summer of 2001, if I'm not mistaken it was DDP beating The Rock for the WCW title in the main event. This whole show was obviously massively inspired by me finally seeing ECW One Night Stand 2005, basically doing a WCW version of that in July 2001 to restore the honor of the brand.

Meanwhile my version of WWECW turned the clock back and did away with the Kid Rock characters and the softer logo and the Limp Bizkit music videos and went back to 1995-1996 ECW with the characters and stories and vibe. WWF responded by sending a Right To Censor style faction called Quality Control to clean up the brand, led by Cyrus, Stevie Richards, and somebody else it was a lot of fun to write that.

WCW invades WWF and it spills into them invading ECW since it's now WWF owned. It built up to a 3 way dance between Flair(WCW) vs Foley(WWF) vs Funk(ECW) at ECW November to Remember 2001 with major stipulations, if Flair won WCW won the rights to ECW and would kill it and claim all their TV deals for WCW programming. Foley as acting WWF Commissioner had rediscovered his hatred for hardcore wrestling and was out to kill ECW if he won. But if Funk won it free'd ECW and gave them their independence to where WWF could no have any influence or interference in ECW like what Quality Control was doing stopping guys from breaking tables and trying to institute regular wrestling rules, trying to force the WWF style onto ECW and them fighting it off was such a blast to write that, my god man. 

But Funk won obviously.

RVD through it all had his loyalties tested and remained a free agent through it all carefully booked to be over like a fucking motherfucker.

It all leads up to WCW winning the war at Survivor Series and taking Smackdown, setting up the 2002 part of the project with WCW, ECW, and WWF as three separate and identifiable brands with different rules, vibes, cultures, histories and everything. Each brand had their own pay per view schedule alternating by months. There is no draft, wrestlers are free to negotiate and sign with whatever brand they want. Guys were already established whether they were a WWF guy or WCW guy or ECW guy anyways, Drafts are for rookie classes not to shake up the entire veteran roster of a league. The 2002 brand split and draft was all braindead stupid to me and a complete turn off of all wrestling. 

It sets up the Royal Rumble 2002 to be the WCW Royal Rumble, for the vacant WCW World Title, bunch of call backs and homages to the 1992 Rumble but at the end RVD wins it. I believe he defeats WWF Champ Jericho at Mania X-8 to unify the titles, then turns heel to join the NWO when they finally come around in the spring. I had plans for NWO to take over all 3 brands with RVD as supreme triple crown champ after winning ECW World strap too, but never got that far. Totally unrealistic all of this but it was a fun ride. Somewhere in there I had New Jack kidnap Stephanie Mcmahon and held her hostage for something I can't remember. There was a faction with Sinister Minister in ECW that I used to live out my Hellraiser/Friday 13th fan fiction desires, super corny cringe stuff. The thread was terrible when it first started but I got freakishly better and by the end of the 2001 project it was pretty fucking awesome.

My favorite moments was a random Don Frye vs Sandman brawl I booked that was just a thing of beauty to write and read back. Also the 30 Man Anarchy Rulz match that took place at Anarchy Rulz 2001, it was ECW's version of Royal Rumble but only way to be eliminated was to be put through a table. Tagline: 30 men, 29 tables, 1 winner. Tables were propped up in every corner of the ring, set up all around the ringside area, and the rest were closed and stacked up in the entrance isle on standby to be destroyed. That fake written wrestling match that never happened will live on in my heart forever, Epic of the cinema. 

Ah I remember now, Steph turned on Vince to join Shane to run WCW. WCW winning at Survivor Series killed the WWF and created the must watch Raw the night after, forever known as "Black Monday", the one and only ever episode of WCW Monday Night Raw(inspired by the time when Vince took over Crockett/TBS or something?) where all the WWF logos are replaced. This ended up just being a bait and switch since Shane and Steph work out a deal that night to split up and for Steph to keep WWF alive on Mondays, setting up the aforementioned brand split and establishing a hard definitive start of a new era of WWF that next Monday.

Jan 7, 2023 2:04:59 GMT Big Pete said:

That point about turning back the clock on WCW really resonated with me. That's one of the points fans seem to skim over but by the time the WWE had purchased WCW, the roster was made up of talent the audience had no interest in seeing. I think this is an era where you'd just give into the excess and come up with every dream match imaginable and try to tick all the boxes without really having a clear goal.

Maybe I would end up caring too much about trying to have it make as much sense as possible. Do they just invade and that's it? Maybe we don't need to explain how Bischoff has gotten control of WCW from Vince. Or why Vince is letting them wrestle on his show. I'd prefer to be able to, but a large chunk of the audience probably don't care and just wants the dream matches.

In the Random Thoughts thread that you quoted, you made a good point that 1999 may be the ideal time, although I'm not quite sure of when in the year. Because even in early 1999, the WWF isn't set up star power wise to compete with WCW despite outperforming them. WWF is the company making new top stars at that time. The Rock was being made into a main event player in late 98/early 99 but if you have Hogan/Rock in mid or even late 1999, that isn't as significant feeling as their 2002 match (even if it was clear that Rock was actually on the way out and not "the future" as presented in the passing-of-the-torch dream match).

In mid-1999, Rock is a mega star, but has not yet been The Man. Despite the success of the company, Triple H does not feel like he is getting over to the level they want. Foley has been made into a top star in the first half of the year but I think by Mania 2000, they have all been brought to a different level. With Austin gone, Rock is now #1. Trips is made by the Foley matches. And those matches themselves cement Mick's own legacy and put him to a higher level, with help from the success of his first book in late 1999/early 2000, to the extent that he is brought back for the Mania main event.

So I'm not sure what works better. Doing it in early 1999 when you don't need to wind the clock back on WCW but WWF isn't really set up with mega names. Or early 2001 where you have to rewind WCW but the WWF has more mega names. Outside of doing DX vs. nWo, there weren't really any Triple H dream matches in early 1999. You could work through H (with HBK in his corner) against Hall and Nash with Kliq and Curtain Call references, but he is still seen as the smallest star of those guys in 1999. Although that could be the feud to get him to the next level. By 2001, as an established mega star, you can do Triple H vs. the Kliq guys on a different level now, while also doing Hogan/Sting/Flair/Savage/Goldberg and they are all dream matches now because of the level of star Triple H now is. Similar thing can be said of Foley and even Rock.

How much would Austin, with how fragile he was in 1999, have to get paid to work with a Goldberg known for being very stiff?

I think that in 2001, you get more huge name vs. huge name matches, simply because you've given the WWF time to create the huge names. But 1999 would be better overall in terms of feel, happening when wrestling is at its hottest and both companies feeling like they are still huge.

Early-to-mid 1999 would allow you to use the Outlaws and it wouldn't feel too backtracky to use the Steiners and Harlem Heat as tag teams, but you don't have the Hardyz, E&C or Dudleyz as being anybody yet.

Imagine if you somehow work out Bret vs. HBK and Bret vs. Vince brawls in mid-to-late 1999? In a world where this agreement and angle is planned in early 1999 and therefore Owen isn't asked to be the Blue Blazer and doesn't die and you are the best negotiator in the world. No way do I expect that Bret wouldn't assume he'd get screwed over again if he went on WWF TV in 1999.

Owen working midcard workrate matches in 1999 with the likes of Benoit, Booker and Jericho could've been great stuff.

Jan 7, 2023 2:04:59 GMT Big Pete said:

The one aspect fans gloss over is the implications this would have on the WWF's presentation. The WWF by this stage was well and truly in the Gerwitz sit-com era where guys like The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Edge & Christian etc. really thrived and the characters had to have a comedic bent to them. For this to work, I think 99% of that would have to change and the WWF themselves would have to go back to a 97-98 style presentation where the bulk of the show happens in the ring.

This is a great point and I would be massively for it. No more people talking about their nefarious plan with a camera clearly filming them, but we have to act like it is a normal scripted TV show and the other characters can't see that. Instead, promos/interactions are mainly in the ring in front of the crowd and if they are backstage, they are addressing a camera that they know exists.

Jan 7, 2023 2:04:59 GMT Big Pete said:

Finally and I can't believe I'm saying this: the angle needed more Jeff Jarrett. No I wouldn't book him on top but just somebody you'd never expect to see in the WWF this soon who could legitimise the purchase and work anywhere up or down the card.

This is another very good point. Jarrett and Lex feel like they are required for this.

Jan 8, 2023 2:55:00 GMT Neo Zeed said:

WCW invades WWF and it spills into them invading ECW since it's now WWF owned. It built up to a 3 way dance between Flair(WCW) vs Foley(WWF) vs Funk(ECW) at ECW November to Remember 2001 with major stipulations, if Flair won WCW won the rights to ECW and would kill it and claim all their TV deals for WCW programming. Foley as acting WWF Commissioner had rediscovered his hatred for hardcore wrestling and was out to kill ECW if he won. But if Funk won it free'd ECW and gave them their independence to where WWF could no have any influence or interference in ECW like what Quality Control was doing stopping guys from breaking tables and trying to institute regular wrestling rules, trying to force the WWF style onto ECW and them fighting it off was such a blast to write that, my god man. 

But Funk won obviously.

This is great stuff.

I've often thought about this, and across countless forums I've likely put together some sort of angle in the past. 

In hindsight, 20 odd years removed from that era. I don't know if it was actually possible to book a great invasion angle. The talent at the time coming in from WCW weren't exactly top guys and realistically, WCW was so far behind WWF in terms of absolutely everything, that the top WCW guys would have always looked second-rate next to the WWF guys - as the did in 2001. 

The nWo was the likely option, but even then, the core nWo guys were +10 years past their primes and in terrible shape despite their age in comparison to today's 40-something wrestlers. I doubt they could have carried an angle that would require some heavy lifting. And honestly, the nWo had been relaunched a number of times in WCW, it has lost all meaning by 2000 - doing it again in WWF in 2002 and adding a bit of weight to the group with Scott Steiner later debuting and maybe a heel turn from Big Show and the return of Shawn Michaels and X-Pac, may have been as successful as the actual Michaels-era nWo stint.