I have a new opinion and I don’t think I can ever change it again. 

I think Lebron James has officially passed Michael Jordan as the GOAT. A championship with 3 different teams. MVP multiple times. Top 10 in every statistical chart in his career including highest scorer ever. Averaging 30+ this late in age STILL. With the most pressure a teenage boy could go through and living up to the hype and beating out every exception by miles. 

So what’s the argument anymore? The 6-0 in Finals? The better Space Jam movie? Better sneakers? I mean seriously. What is the argument anymore? Whatever you think it is, it’s become lazy. 

Michael Jordan was the Hulk Hogan. Lebron James was The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin combined. Controversial, a star and in my opinion the new GOAT of the NBA. 

I would love to hear everyone on PWs thoughts on this one thing. I don’t want it merged into the NBA thread because this brings more attention and I am truly curious if I’m the only one who just made the change of opinion. 

I feel like anyone who saw Jordan in his prime and makes an argument for James is kidding themselves. You can argue maybe James had a better career. Longer, more volume. Did it in a couple different places. But he’s just not better at basketball than Jordan. It’s as simple as that IMHO.

LeBron doesn't touch Jordan. Not in acting(Look at both Space Jams as an example), not in defense, and not in clutch points/baskets. LeBron might be the better teammate by default and I think LeBron was stronger in both's primes but that's it.

MJ also deserves credit for sticking with 1 team and leading a dynasty vs LeBron bolting his drafted team the minute he could to join a superteam before falling into the NBA manufactured Cavs with their countless #1 draft picks.

You’re wrong KING KID. Case closed.



Watch The Last Dance and get back to me.

I'll leave this here, it's really not close:

Stealing this from one of the ESPN talking heads, forget which one, but like it a lot.

If we invented an NBA player with 2 NBA titles, 2 Finals MVP, 1 League MVP, 3 All-Defense teams, 1 DPOY & 9 scoring titles, that would be a first ballot Hall of Famer and a Top 50 player of all time. That's also the gap between Michael Jordan and LeBron James. Not only is Michael Jordan the GOAT, it's not particularly close. 

LeBron has faced infinitely better competition, that’s for sure. A guy like John Starks, a favorite of mine, wouldn’t even sniff the league today. The talent pool was much smaller, and a watered down league only made it worse in the second half of the 90s. Gun to my head, I’ll choose Mike but only by a very small margin. Peak LeBron was every bit as dominant though.

Feb 12, 2023 15:01:36 GMT Blindy said:

LeBron doesn't touch Jordan. Not in acting(Look at both Space Jams as an example), not in defense, and not in clutch points/baskets. LeBron might be the better teammate by default and I think LeBron was stronger in both's primes but that's it.

MJ also deserves credit for sticking with 1 team and leading a dynasty vs LeBron bolting his drafted team the minute he could to join a superteam before falling into the NBA manufactured Cavs with their countless #1 draft picks.

Michael had a very competent front office. Cleveland didn’t. LeBron also didn’t leave the minute he could. He signed his extension, Boston built a super team, and he had his back to the wall with the team around him.

Feb 14, 2023 12:30:21 GMT SummerSlam 1998 said:

Feb 12, 2023 15:01:36 GMT Blindy said:

LeBron doesn't touch Jordan. Not in acting(Look at both Space Jams as an example), not in defense, and not in clutch points/baskets. LeBron might be the better teammate by default and I think LeBron was stronger in both's primes but that's it.

MJ also deserves credit for sticking with 1 team and leading a dynasty vs LeBron bolting his drafted team the minute he could to join a superteam before falling into the NBA manufactured Cavs with their countless #1 draft picks.

Michael had a very competent front office. Cleveland didn’t. LeBron also didn’t leave the minute he could. He signed his extension, Boston built a super team, and he had his back to the wall with the team around him.

He ripped his jersey out on live TV and made a spectacle of himself with the Decision 2010, that's him leaving as soon as he was able to after the extension. I also blame Lebron for not being able to attract talents to join him in CLE as much as the front office not being able to provide him with additional help. 

Feb 14, 2023 5:39:32 GMT Shootist said:

I'll leave this here, it's really not close:

That’s awesome bro. Thanks.

You can make stats support either side of the argument. Jordan was a stone-cold killer who never took a night off. If you wanted the win, even in a regular season game, you would have to kill him first.

I go with Lebron generally in these arguments for a few small reasons:

He’s significantly bigger
He played significantly longer
He played in a stronger league
He didn’t retire three times
He took better care of his body

I respect that Jordan was a competitive dick and that the average age of this board means that most had Jordan as a superhero and Lebron they viewed cynically, but I watched both at their peak and I don’t believe there is a real argument that one is significantly more skilled than the other. Cherry picking stats isn’t doing it, I’m sure there’s a Lebron version of the same thing.

This is what it is all about. 

LBJ is more like Magic than MJ.

Feb 16, 2023 17:55:02 GMT Ed said:

LBJ is more like Magic than MJ.

He’s had a few different iterations. Early in his career for sure, but especially when he went back to Cleveland he was considerably more like Jordan.

Feb 15, 2023 0:06:56 GMT mikec said:

I go with Lebron generally in these arguments for a few small reasons:

He’s significantly bigger
He played significantly longer
He played in a stronger league
He didn’t retire three times
He took better care of his body

I respect that Jordan was a competitive dick and that the average age of this board means that most had Jordan as a superhero and Lebron they viewed cynically, but I watched both at their peak and I don’t believe there is a real argument that one is significantly more skilled than the other. Cherry picking stats isn’t doing it, I’m sure there’s a Lebron version of the same thing.

Please explain

The talent level in the league is significantly deeper now than it was in the 1980’s-1990’s.

Feb 10, 2023 16:53:58 GMT KING KID said:

I have a new opinion and I don’t think I can ever change it again. 

I think Lebron James has officially passed Michael Jordan as the GOAT. A championship with 3 different teams. MVP multiple times. Top 10 in every statistical chart in his career including highest scorer ever. Averaging 30+ this late in age STILL. With the most pressure a teenage boy could go through and living up to the hype and beating out every exception by miles. 

So what’s the argument anymore? The 6-0 in Finals? The better Space Jam movie? Better sneakers? I mean seriously. What is the argument anymore? Whatever you think it is, it’s become lazy. 

Michael Jordan was the Hulk Hogan. Lebron James was The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin combined. Controversial, a star and in my opinion the new GOAT of the NBA. 

I would love to hear everyone on PWs thoughts on this one thing. I don’t want it merged into the NBA thread because this brings more attention and I am truly curious if I’m the only one who just made the change of opinion. 

Plain and simple,MJ accomplished more in a shorter period of time, and did with fewer blemishes on his resume.

Lebron is my clear #2 though.

Mar 3, 2023 4:02:29 GMT thereallt said:

Feb 10, 2023 16:53:58 GMT KING KID said:

I have a new opinion and I don’t think I can ever change it again. 

I think Lebron James has officially passed Michael Jordan as the GOAT. A championship with 3 different teams. MVP multiple times. Top 10 in every statistical chart in his career including highest scorer ever. Averaging 30+ this late in age STILL. With the most pressure a teenage boy could go through and living up to the hype and beating out every exception by miles. 

So what’s the argument anymore? The 6-0 in Finals? The better Space Jam movie? Better sneakers? I mean seriously. What is the argument anymore? Whatever you think it is, it’s become lazy. 

Michael Jordan was the Hulk Hogan. Lebron James was The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin combined. Controversial, a star and in my opinion the new GOAT of the NBA. 

I would love to hear everyone on PWs thoughts on this one thing. I don’t want it merged into the NBA thread because this brings more attention and I am truly curious if I’m the only one who just made the change of opinion. 

Plain and simple,MJ accomplished more in a shorter period of time, and did with fewer blemishes on his resume.

Lebron is my clear #2 though.

And did it in a time when defenses were way tougher than they are now. 

Kareem is still my number 2 but LeBron is gaining.

Mar 3, 2023 6:05:08 GMT Shootist said:

Mar 3, 2023 4:02:29 GMT thereallt said:

Plain and simple,MJ accomplished more in a shorter period of time, and did with fewer blemishes on his resume.

Lebron is my clear #2 though.

And did it in a time when defenses were way tougher than they are now. 

Kareem is still my number 2 but LeBron is gaining.

Meh, I don't give the defensive era argument much credence.  MJ never had to face double teams BEFORE getting the ball the way Lebron did (and still does)  MJ also never had to face the variety of defensive looks and schemes Lebron had to face in his career.  MJ had to face more physical defenses yes, but in terms of X's and O's I don't think MJ faced more difficult defenses.

Where’s Kobe?

Mar 3, 2023 21:51:30 GMT KING KID said:

Where’s Kobe?

In the 5-7 range for me.  Kobe is such a damn difficult player to rate.  His eye test absolutely jumps at you, but the metrics simply do not.  Yes he had a lot of team success with the 5 rings, but he was the #2 option for 3 of those rings.   He also missed the playoffs in his prime, and his absolutely awful performance in the 04 Finals dosen't get talked about nearly enough.

I would put Duncan ahead of Kobe.

Mar 5, 2023 12:26:38 GMT DanTheMan said:

I would put Duncan ahead of Kobe.

You tripping, Daniel. 

Tim Duncan better then Magic and Bird too