When I was a kid I legit hated Yokozuna. Being a mark for Bret the patron saint of pro wrestling I hated how he lost the belt to Yoko at Mania IX. I thought he was the worst wrestler of all time. And this lingered on as I started rewatching old stuff, last thing I wanted to sit through was a Yokozuna or Mabel match. 

The more and more I rewatched I grew to respect Yokozuna he was actually pretty good and I grew to appreciate the character. 

But now at this point I've done a full turn around and I think he's actually quite bad ass. The more I think about it the more I really love the whole concept of Bret vs Yoko at Mania IX, in the OUTDOOR PAVILLION of Caesars Palace in Las fucking Vegas, it's like an international Canada vs Japan, the shooter vs sumo, that whole aspect and the setting of that match is so cool looking at it now. Really Yokozuna was pretty awesome. 

I used this gif in a fan fic ad recently and have fallen in love with it. Such a great kick, and Bret sells it so amazingly, the kick barely fucking grazes him if it touches him at all and he makes it look like a legit brutal knockout from like a boxing or UFC fight. 



Use this thread to discuss the highs and lows, the rise and fall of this wrestler. Seems like he could have been used a certain way to get more out of him there in 1996-98 but I read he really fell apart there. Sad stuff. 

So...

Am I the only one who hates the WMX finish and think it looks really weak sauce as a crowning ceremony for Bret? Yeah not his first world title win, but it kinda was...

I read a lot about how Hogan was trying to get him in WCW in 1996 before the Hall/Nash signings. Trying to imagine what his WCW career could have been like. Hogan vs Yokozuna in WCW in 1996 seems like a terrible idea in real time but looking back now seems like it could have been kinda cool actually. Yokozuna vs Luger/Sting/Savage/Tenta/Meng/Rey Jr./The Giant *slams hand on table* WHAT DO WE GOT!?(Pacino voice)

One of my favorite things about Yoko is how people got mental that he's actually samoan and not really a sumo guy...

I only learned about it in the last 5 years, but knowing he dressing like a gangster and acts like a thug backstage with the BSK is always amazing looking back.

Glad you finally came around. Better late than never. Big Yoke ruled. HE SQUASHED HULKAMANIA! That went a long way towards making having him at #45 or so on my list last time we did PW's Favorite Wrestler countdown. First long term heel WWF Champion of my youth and longest reigning heel WWF Champion from Graham in 77 to JBL in 2004. That's 27 years! Had killer offense with the Banzai Drop being instant death. Great squasher just like Taz. Great at building drama for his bumps and then when he finally did fall it was like an earthquake. Is he the only Rumble winner to be the biggest guy in the match? If so WWE has done a lousy job of booking the Rumble over the past 35 years.

Admittedly lost a lot of his aura, heat, and my interest after dropping the title to Bret. That finish did suck @ness. So did the finish to WM 9.

But I came back around on him when he returned as Owen's partner. They had a cool big/little dynamic even if Sid & The Kid did the same schtick better during that very same year. Nowadays I get a kick out of how Yoko did all the work in kayfabe while in reality Owen did the heavy lifting for the team.

That last year was rough to watch though. He had gotten so out of shape, missed a lot of time, and the face turn just fizzled out.

Neo Zeed Hogan only wanted Yoko in WCW so he could get his win back, brother. 100% guaranteed.

Yoko the original legend killer? Last eliminated Savage from the Rumble, even with the camera he still pinned Hogan and started a new era. "I beat Rock and Austin Hogan and Savage" It begs the question which is the bigger flex... Jericho or Yoko. Jericho gets the edge for same night obv but is it any more or less impressive? What's the past eras version? Cena and Tista? Recent the SHIELD? Who has the last one? Brock? "I made them"

Hogan did take some SHINE from Yoko as I discovered wrestling. Somewhat unclean job on the way out and how he clowned him in the start of his reign. Or does that make Yoko BETTER? Because he had to earn that win over Hogan?

Feb 19, 2023 1:38:34 GMT @ness said:

Yoko the original legend killer? 

Yes! Eliminated Savage. Squashed Hulkamania. Also humbled Bret at Wrestlemania. Also also sent the Undertaker straight to heaven. Yoko just became even cooler in my book. And props to Ness for pointing out what had been right there sitting in front of me for nearly 30 years.

Still think he sucks. One of those things that seems cooler now because you can just remember his cool moves, but in real time, basically unbearable.

Feb 18, 2023 15:53:44 GMT @ness said:

One of my favorite things about Yoko is how people got mental that he's actually samoan and not really a sumo guy...

I only learned about it in the last 5 years, but knowing he dressing like a gangster and acts like a thug backstage with the BSK is always amazing looking back.

The thing is that it was never hidden. Even in his debut, he was announced as from the Polynesian Islands. In kayfabe, the idea seems to be that he was a Samoan dude who had gone to Japan to become a sumo and was now representing Japan.


White mawashi with red tights is by far Yoko's best look. I don't like how he homogenised after a few months. I liked when he'd mix up the colours.

And the funny thing is it is so clear that he is Samoan, especially when he was in the ring with the Headshrinkers. As a kid, of course, I completely believed he was Japanese. The same way I would struggle to tell Demolition apart despite it seeming so obvious as an adult.

A reminder that Yoko was set to come in as the third Samoan (mentioned by Gorilla on commentary in August 1992) back when they weren't yet called the Headshrinkers and only the Samoans. I don't think he would have touched the title as Kokina, while weighing a good chunk less than he did even as early Yoko.

Feb 19, 2023 1:15:58 GMT Baker said:

That finish did suck @ness . So did the finish to WM 9.

Still annoys me that Yoko went home early at Mania IX, as that match was on the cusp of being really good if it had a nice finishing stretch. Even more annoying that he didn't at least drop a leg after the salt in the eyes.

As I get older, I can completely buy a fat guy hitting his head badly falling off the ropes as being legitimately worrying in real life, but it is a terrible Mania main event finish. Bret stealing a quick one rather than a decisive win and Yoko looking a fool. Unlike the year before, that was actually the planned finish, which is pretty wild.

Feb 19, 2023 1:53:58 GMT Baker said:

Feb 19, 2023 1:38:34 GMT @ness said:

Yoko the original legend killer? 

Eliminated Savage.

I still want some cunt to explain to me why they did that finish. Yoko is a fat guy, not a muscle guy. He crushes you with his size. He isn't supposed to be particularly strong. If anyone is going to be pressing someone from the ground, it should be a Warlord type. Maybe a worse finish than Mania X.

Maybe that is Yoko's legacy. Terrible finishes. The stupid press slam off the floor at Rumble 1993. No move after salt at Mania IX. The exploding camera at KOTR 1993. Luger going over by countout at SummerSlam 1993. Him needing a million heels to beat Taker at Royal Rumble 1994 while no faces come to help (just have Fuji and Cornette interfere to let Yoko hit like 5 or 10 Banzais to get Taker in the casket for his death). The fall off the ropes at Mania X.

Feb 20, 2023 21:50:02 GMT Strobe said:

And the funny thing is it is so clear that he is Samoan, especially when he was in the ring with the Headshrinkers. As a kid, of course, I completely believed he was Japanese. The same way I would struggle to tell Demolition apart despite it seeming so obvious as an adult.

Same here

I still want some cunt to explain to me why they did that finish. Yoko is a fat guy, not a muscle guy. He crushes you with his size. He isn't supposed to be particularly strong. If anyone is going to be pressing someone from the ground, it should be a Warlord type.

Agreed. And of course why is Savage covering Yoko in a Royal Rumble to begin with?

The KOTR 93 finish could have worked had they retconned the rogue camera man in to being Jim Cornette who debuted less than two months later. This was my head canon for over 20 years. Believed it in so strongly I convinced myself it really did happen! 

Cornette killed Hulkamania. Even if just on PW, it's canon.

I like Yoko's matches with The Undertaker but Kilgore is right. Yoko was kinda meh for the most part. If YZ were an attraction I would have cared about him a little more. YZ as champ was useful in terms of giving Bret something to overcome. As far as Yoko's singles run, it was cool for a few months but he was overweight & slow & become stale as a result. I feel like if there were forums like ours in 1993, most people wouldn't speak as fondly about Yokozuna.

Feb 21, 2023 0:01:12 GMT @ness said:

Cornette killed Hulkamania. Even if just on PW, it's canon.

Seconded

Feb 21, 2023 0:25:24 GMT Ed said:

I feel like if there were forums like ours in 1993, most people wouldn't speak as fondly about Yokozuna.

You're probably right but I would have been the outlier going to bat for Yoko while simultaneously dumping on boring midcard 4 life Bret Hart. 

Given how you feel about Bret during that time does an aging Randy Savage [in Vince's eyes] getting 1 last WWF title reign as the beloved legend work for you, Baker?

Feb 21, 2023 0:56:55 GMT Ed said:

Given how you feel about Bret during that time does an aging Randy Savage [in Vince's eyes] getting 1 last WWF title reign as the beloved legend work for you, Baker ?

Better. But still not ideal. He just had "one last run!" 

In a perfect (hehe) world I'd go with Mr. Perfect. He had a ready made feud with Flair. Have him dethrone Naitch at the 93 Rumble after two months of build. Then run the Loser Leaves Town rematch on Raw to really put him over strong on tv.

I'm not going to rebook it any more than that. I've tried in the past! But late 92 WWF was such a mess with guys leaving left and right, noobs and "tag team specialists" suddenly being pushed to moon, and all those seemingly random title changes that I always end up throwing in the towel before making much headway. 

I viewed Perfect as a much bigger star than Bret despite Bret defeating Mr. P at Summerslam 91 because Perfect had been out there hanging and banging with the REAL stars Hogan & Warrior while Bret was still a tag team specialist. Honestly took a long time for me to view Bret as anything more than an inexplicably overpushed (though I obviously wouldn't have used those terms in 92-93) tag team specialist. "Why are they still trying to make Bret Hart a thing?"- 92-94 me.

Put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I had grown up on larger than life characters like Hogan, Warrior, and even Savage at the top of the mountain. It was all I knew. Now all of sudden this undersized regular guy most famous for being one half of a tag team is the top guy. It was jarring to say the least. Didn't buy into Bret even a little bit until KOTR 93 and the subsequent Lawler feud. And even then going into 94 I thought Lex was a lock to win the Rumble (by himself) and dethrone Yoko at Wrestlemania. I didn't so much as "come around" on Bret as I was beaten down into submission. It was not unlike a 2007 Cena situation where I was just like "Well, I'm a WWF fan, and this is the guy they're going with, so I might as well just learn to accept it." Plus Owen & Mr. Backlund, like Lawler before them, were interesting enough to get me invested in their feuds with boring Bret. 

I wasn't as high on Yoko as Baker was but I was a fan. He had such a unique look and had remarkable athleticism for someone of his size. Pretty much everything Bake said I agree with in regards to offense and selling. Only thing I do remember post WM10 is him squashing Austin on the Summerslam '96 pre show and he had really fallen off. I still don't see him really thriving beyond '96 had he stayed in shape. He would have needed a gimmick overhaul and been "a keeping it real" Rikishi type (or whatever that gimmick was) or a Notorious BIG rip off to stay relevant in the Attitude Era. For that year and half though he was one of the best super heavies I had ever seen.

I'm co-signing the gimmick overhaul that Shootist presented.

Feb 20, 2023 23:54:33 GMT Baker said:

The KOTR 93 finish could have worked had they retconned the rogue camera man in to being Jim Cornette who debuted less than two months later. This was my head canon for over 20 years. Believed it in so strongly I convinced myself it really did happen! 

And it even has an extra level for the hardcore fans based on how Cornette got in the business.

Feb 21, 2023 0:25:24 GMT Ed said:

I like Yoko's matches with The Undertaker

They had good chemistry. Fun interaction at 1993 Survivor Series and I remember their Rumble match being fun before all the interference.

Feb 21, 2023 20:34:32 GMT Shootist said:

I still don't see him really thriving beyond '96 had he stayed in shape. He would have needed a gimmick overhaul and been "a keeping it real" Rikishi type (or whatever that gimmick was) or a Notorious BIG rip off to stay relevant in the Attitude Era.

It was almost there for him.

Samu and the future Rosey were the Samoan Gangsta Party watching Make a Difference Fatu in 1995 WWF but it never went anywhere. Could have been the foundation right there.

A Sons of Samoa ripoff gang with Yoko as leader, and Fatu, Samu, and Rosey. Have Afa, the wise original leader, as the manager. Or still just as a savage. Does The Rock join this group rather than the Nation?

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Yoko was very lucky timing wise. In the previous eras, he'd have been another monster challenger for the title. He would have been Earthquake. Or at best a transitional champ, which would still have enhanced his standing. Look at how Iron Sheik's month-long reign puts him on a level that he probably shouldn't be at.

Yoko was at first a transitional champ from Hogan to Bret. Then when the Hogan experiment failed, they made him a transitional champ again, but Vince got cold feet with the Lex Express and Yoko sort of accidentally ended up with a 9-month reign (longest heel title run since Billy Graham and the fans wanted to turn Graham face in that run, so in a way, the longest pure heel title run in Fed history).