I keep reading reports that say you can not be healthy and obese.  Heart health and more.  Yet it seems the general societal impression is "just accept my body", "I am as fit and healthy as you are."


Do you think it is possible to be healthy and obese?  If so, what would it take to change your mind?

The healthy at every size fat acceptance movement is not to be taken seriously.

Depends if you're using BMI to determine what is considered obese. The ranges are laughable.

Mar 16, 2018 17:22:04 GMT Foos said:

Depends if you're using BMI to determine what is considered obese. The ranges are laughable.

Similar question then, What would it take to change your mind on those ranges?

Mar 16, 2018 14:50:33 GMT theend said:

I keep reading reports that say you can not be healthy and obese.  Heart health and more.  Yet it seems the general societal impression is "just accept my body", "I am as fit and healthy as you are."


Do you think it is possible to be healthy and obese?  If so, what would it take to change your mind?

Those two quoted sentences are considerably different. Positive self-body image is important to mental health I think, if you want to be happy with yourself you should be allowed to be.

Saying someone who is obese is just as fit as someone who isn’t seems like it would require a side by side medical workup with blood work, etc. Some people hit the genetic lottery and can be moderately obese with limited concern factors like heart disease or diabetes and some skinny people have no chance.

Generally though I think you can be obese and healthy in a moment of time, but chances that sticks are slimmer.

sticks slimmer. wow, filled with puns.

Mar 16, 2018 18:41:07 GMT mikec said:

Mar 16, 2018 14:50:33 GMT theend said:

I keep reading reports that say you can not be healthy and obese.  Heart health and more.  Yet it seems the general societal impression is "just accept my body", "I am as fit and healthy as you are."


Do you think it is possible to be healthy and obese?  If so, what would it take to change your mind?

Those two quoted sentences are considerably different. Positive self-body image is important to mental health I think, if you want to be happy with yourself you should be allowed to be.

Saying someone who is obese is just as fit as someone who isn’t seems like it would require a side by side medical workup with blood work, etc. Some people hit the genetic lottery and can be moderately obese with limited concern factors like heart disease or diabetes and some skinny people have no chance.

Generally though I think you can be obese and healthy in a moment of time, but chances that sticks are slimmer.

Thing is, we should be educating people well enough to know that there are certain sizes that you shouldn't be happy with, and work to change yourself. 

I don't know how to paste pictures in here; www.buzzfeed.com/norawhelan/theres-more-than-one-plus-size-model?utm_term=.wtomdXBMV#.mteBAoOK8 but look at this story. The majority of these women should be considered at first site extremely unhealthy and obese, and yet somehow our alt left society has decided we must call them beautiful. Obese is not healthy, it is unhealthy and ugly

Yeah I don’t really agree with you. I don’t think any of us should be categorically saying larger people are ugly and need to fix themselves, and I think people get to make choices that affect their health and have a right to be happy with that if they want to. If you don’t think larger people are told constantly they aren’t educated enough that their body size is wrong, you’re delusional.

Your definition of alt left from that post sounds like “anyone who thinks you don’t have to be a dick to people who don’t effect you.” Double checked the article, the only one telling people what they have to think is you. If you feel this bullied by a buzzfeed list I don’t know what to tell you.

Can you be? Sure. Majority of professional athletes, according to BMI, are "obese."

But obviously you're specifically referring to fat people, and the answer (with exceptions) is no. Sure, in a moment in time you may have great bloodwork, but in the long-game called life, the deck is stacked against you.

The flip-side is, it doesn't impact you in any way whether people choose to call themselves "big and beautiful" (or if people find "big and beautiful" attractive).

Depends on how you define the majority of pro athletes. X games, tennis, soccer, field sports, court and racquet sports, adventure sports, outdoor sports etc essentially no one is obese. Over half of the nfl sure. But they are overweight and not healthy. Find me a rock climber, runner, skateboarder etc that is obese or overweight and I'll concede.  

Carrying excess muscle could be just as challenging to the heart and organs as fat right? That would disrupt bmi and health. There is no reason to think that carrying muscle mass is all of sudden healthy. Because a bunch of team sport ball players who regularly have health problems are healthy.

I think the people that are loudest about anti-body shaming are the first to criticize somebody being "too skinny," so it seems to (mostly) be self serving bullshit and not at all about empathy or trying to reconsider standards.

Mar 17, 2018 17:47:08 GMT Kilgore said:

I think the people that are loudest about anti-body shaming are the first to criticize somebody being "too skinny," so it seems to (mostly) be self serving bullshit and not at all about empathy or trying to reconsider standards.

FUCKING A!  I had a fat girl  on face book who would constantly post shit about how "this is a how a real woman looks" and it would be a pic of a chunkier gal...yeah do fuck off.  I unfriended her promptly.  Don't talk about how people should accept your body for the way it is then be a bitch to someone who is a size 2.  It's more likely the size 2 is just naturally thin and developed good eating habits and exercises an hour a day, your 400 pounds of flab because you have a bad relationship with food and the only exercise you do is from the couch to the kitchen. Not something to brag about.  I mean with that said, one doesn't have to be super model skinny to be attractive nor do you have to eat only boiled chicken breasts and protein shakes to have a body to be proud of.  I like a girl with some meat on her bones and fuck it, I love pizza and Reeses peanut butter cups as much as the next sane person but being happy with being fat to me simply means you have given up on ever being healthy.    

I honestly think vendrell just hates fat people...

Mar 17, 2018 16:59:27 GMT theend said:

Carrying excess muscle could be just as challenging to the heart and organs as fat right? That would disrupt bmi and health. There is no reason to think that carrying muscle mass is all of sudden healthy. Because a bunch of team sport ball players who regularly have health problems are healthy.

I have no idea but I'm inclined to agree. A 6 foot guy who's 300 pounds of muscle is probably healthier than a guy who's 6' and 300 pounds of mostly fat, but his heart is still doing more work pushing blood through all that volume than if he were like 180. I'd also think it's harder on his joints -- your knees don't differentiate between fat and muscle, they only know it's a lot of weight.

Mar 18, 2018 1:31:53 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Mar 17, 2018 16:59:27 GMT theend said:

Carrying excess muscle could be just as challenging to the heart and organs as fat right? That would disrupt bmi and health. There is no reason to think that carrying muscle mass is all of sudden healthy. Because a bunch of team sport ball players who regularly have health problems are healthy.

I have no idea but I'm inclined to agree. A 6 foot guy who's 300 pounds of muscle is probably healthier than a guy who's 6' and 300 pounds of mostly fat, but his heart is still doing more work pushing blood through all that volume than if he were like 180. I'd also think it's harder on his joints -- your knees don't differentiate between fat and muscle, they only know it's a lot of weight.

I disagree with both of the premises of your post. 

Heart health will typically be better in a healthier person (lets say the 300 pounds of muscle) than an unhealthy person (lets say the 300 pound fattie). Healthy people will usually have a lower heart rate. What this means is the heart is needs to pump less often to circulate the blood through the body, heart strength and stroke volume are better in healthy people. The healthier persons heart is doing less work. Lower heart rate = less work. 

This whole knee health thing is so silly. Exercise builds muscle. Muscles strengthen stability and cushion impact. My knees are healthier because I exercise regularly and add muscle mass around my knee. What do I know about knee health though, I only run a lot. 

Mar 17, 2018 16:59:27 GMT theend said:

Depends on how you define the majority of pro athletes. X games, tennis, soccer, field sports, court and racquet sports, adventure sports, outdoor sports etc essentially no one is obese. Over half of the nfl sure. But they are overweight and not healthy. Find me a rock climber, runner, skateboarder etc that is obese or overweight and I'll concede.  

Carrying excess muscle could be just as challenging to the heart and organs as fat right? That would disrupt bmi and health. There is no reason to think that carrying muscle mass is all of sudden healthy. Because a bunch of team sport ball players who regularly have health problems are healthy.

Sure, I’m referring to the Big Four sports. But I’m also specifically referring to the fact that Aaron Rodgers (6’2”, 225 lbs, 28.9 BMI), Todd Gurley (6’1”, 231 lbs, 30.5 BMI) or Patrick Peterson (6’1”, 219 lbs, 28.9 BMI) would all qualify as overweight, or in Gurley’s case, obese.

I’m not saying there aren’t health risks being loaded with muscle, but the BMI Calculator in of itself is a narrow perspective at judging health.

A lot of big bodybuilders get winded doing basic shit, so I don't think their heart is automatically healthier than somebody more traditionally obese. Muscularity is probably healthy in most people, but once you get to 300 pound muscle dudes, I think you're probably a heart attack waiting to happen too.

Mar 17, 2018 23:38:39 GMT Mistress said:

I honestly think vendrell just hates fat people...

Not at all.  I just dislike hypocrites and a lot of the "I shouldn't be fat shamed" crowd are the same people who body shame thinner people for being thin.  I'd be saying the same shit to someone who was going the opposite way and throwing up everything they eat to look like a skeleton while hurling fat jokes at some plump gal at the  bar.  But whatever, I'm just saying that celebrating the fact that you can barely fit in an air plane seat and are a couple hundred pounds away from being a candidate on my 600 pound life isn't something any sane person should be proud of.  

Mar 18, 2018 1:57:37 GMT KJ said:

Mar 17, 2018 16:59:27 GMT theend said:

Depends on how you define the majority of pro athletes. X games, tennis, soccer, field sports, court and racquet sports, adventure sports, outdoor sports etc essentially no one is obese. Over half of the nfl sure. But they are overweight and not healthy. Find me a rock climber, runner, skateboarder etc that is obese or overweight and I'll concede.  

Carrying excess muscle could be just as challenging to the heart and organs as fat right? That would disrupt bmi and health. There is no reason to think that carrying muscle mass is all of sudden healthy. Because a bunch of team sport ball players who regularly have health problems are healthy.

Sure, I’m referring to the Big Four sports. But I’m also specifically referring to the fact that Aaron Rodgers (6’2”, 225 lbs, 28.9 BMI), Todd Gurley (6’1”, 231 lbs, 30.5 BMI) or Patrick Peterson (6’1”, 219 lbs, 28.9 BMI) would all qualify as overweight, or in Gurley’s case, obese.

I’m not saying there aren’t health risks being loaded with muscle, but the BMI Calculator in of itself is a narrow perspective at judging health.

Narrow?  I would tend to disagree.  I think we can agree that muscular athletes are the rare outliers and the general population's body fat is probably indicative of their BMI.  

Odd trivia.  I tend to relate bodyweight to fighters.  All the guys you mentioned would have to fight in the heaviest weight classes in MMA, boxing or amateur wrestling.   When someone tells me they weigh 145.  I automatically equate them to De La Hoya.  Male or female.   

Mar 17, 2018 21:59:02 GMT vendrell said:

Mar 17, 2018 17:47:08 GMT Kilgore said:

I think the people that are loudest about anti-body shaming are the first to criticize somebody being "too skinny," so it seems to (mostly) be self serving bullshit and not at all about empathy or trying to reconsider standards.

FUCKING A!  I had a fat girl  on face book who would constantly post shit about how "this is a how a real woman looks" and it would be a pic of a chunkier gal...yeah do fuck off.  I unfriended her promptly.  Don't talk about how people should accept your body for the way it is then be a bitch to someone who is a size 2.  It's more likely the size 2 is just naturally thin and developed good eating habits and exercises an hour a day, your 400 pounds of flab because you have a bad relationship with food and the only exercise you do is from the couch to the kitchen. Not something to brag about.  I mean with that said, one doesn't have to be super model skinny to be attractive nor do you have to eat only boiled chicken breasts and protein shakes to have a body to be proud of.  I like a girl with some meat on her bones and fuck it, I love pizza and Reeses peanut butter cups as much as the next sane person but being happy with being fat to me simply means you have given up on ever being healthy.    

Sadly fat girls are becoming the norm, so she's not wrong.

To be fair it's really fat people, but I think most people know men don't post shit like that. Guys are fat. Women are plus size. <_<

Mar 18, 2018 8:54:11 GMT @ness said:

Mar 17, 2018 21:59:02 GMT vendrell said:

FUCKING A!  I had a fat girl  on face book who would constantly post shit about how "this is a how a real woman looks" and it would be a pic of a chunkier gal...yeah do fuck off.  I unfriended her promptly.  Don't talk about how people should accept your body for the way it is then be a bitch to someone who is a size 2.  It's more likely the size 2 is just naturally thin and developed good eating habits and exercises an hour a day, your 400 pounds of flab because you have a bad relationship with food and the only exercise you do is from the couch to the kitchen. Not something to brag about.  I mean with that said, one doesn't have to be super model skinny to be attractive nor do you have to eat only boiled chicken breasts and protein shakes to have a body to be proud of.  I like a girl with some meat on her bones and fuck it, I love pizza and Reeses peanut butter cups as much as the next sane person but being happy with being fat to me simply means you have given up on ever being healthy.    

Sadly fat girls are becoming the norm, so she's not wrong.

To be fair it's really fat people, but I think most people know men don't post shit like that. Guys are fat. Women are plus size. <_<

Interesting point Ness, the true measure of hypocrisy is whether they find someone of equal bmi in the opposite sex attractive, in my experience the answer is no.

I do think mikec, that we should associate health with beauty. Obesity and anorexia are dangerous and we should celebrate the beauty of good health.

I also think that Bmi is more accurate than we think, I have recently lost over 30lb and am realising my target bmi is not that far off.

If we want to do seething about the obesity epidemic we are going to have to do something to address the food company who deliberately formulate their food to be addictive. Really, I have been to 7-11 in the USA and is there any reason to serve cola in cups that big?
I read the 60 years ago an average Western person consumed 4.5 pounds of sugar a year and now it is like 36lb... Sugar is the enemy.

I've been cutting out sugar like crazy. That isn't to say I NEVER eat it but I actually do NEVER eat any sugar Monday-Friday unless it's in fruit and even then I'm only downing one piece of fruit. Weekends I let go a little bit and are a bit laxed but I feel I have a much more fair balance than what I was doing previously where I'd constantly be munching on granola bars and grahm crackers and oreos throughout the work day. No more of that shit. I've also cut down on carbs in a big way. I LOVE pasta but at one point I was eating it probably 5 days out of the week for at least one meal, maybe two so I cut that out and now pasta is strictly a weekend affair. I feel so much better doing things this way and really it's not that hard if you just stay consistent with it. Your tastes begin to change the healthier you eat and suddenly that pint of ice cream doesn't seem as appealing as it once did. Of course you'll still crave junk food from time to time but not nearly as much.

It's so upsetting to me when I see parents just giving their kids whatever they want to eat just to shut them up, just fast tracking them to childhood obesity and once that is engrained in childhood it's going to be a hard habit to break. I know people who literally just make whatever food the kid wants. That isn't how it's supposed to work.

Mar 18, 2018 16:52:06 GMT vendrell said:

I've been cutting out sugar like crazy. That isn't to say I NEVER eat it but I actually do NEVER eat any sugar Monday-Friday unless it's in fruit and even then I'm only downing one piece of fruit. Weekends I let go a little bit and are a bit laxed but I feel I have a much more fair balance than what I was doing previously where I'd constantly be munching on granola bars and grahm crackers and oreos throughout the work day. No more of that shit. I've also cut down on carbs in a big way. I LOVE pasta but at one point I was eating it probably 5 days out of the week for at least one meal, maybe two so I cut that out and now pasta is strictly a weekend affair. I feel so much better doing things this way and really it's not that hard if you just stay consistent with it. Your tastes begin to change the healthier you eat and suddenly that pint of ice cream doesn't seem as appealing as it once did. Of course you'll still crave junk food from time to time but not nearly as much.

It's so upsetting to me when I see parents just giving their kids whatever they want to eat just to shut them up, just fast tracking them to childhood obesity and once that is engrained in childhood it's going to be a hard habit to break. I know people who literally just make whatever food the kid wants. That isn't how it's supposed to work.

I have learnt the only way to cut out sugar is to make everything from scratch yourself, or else read every packet in the grocery store.
The really shocking thing is the number of calories in things like store bought pasta sauce or curry paste.
Solution is better mandated labeling and education

Apr 3, 2018 14:03:36 GMT iNCY said:

Mar 18, 2018 16:52:06 GMT vendrell said:

I've been cutting out sugar like crazy. That isn't to say I NEVER eat it but I actually do NEVER eat any sugar Monday-Friday unless it's in fruit and even then I'm only downing one piece of fruit. Weekends I let go a little bit and are a bit laxed but I feel I have a much more fair balance than what I was doing previously where I'd constantly be munching on granola bars and grahm crackers and oreos throughout the work day. No more of that shit. I've also cut down on carbs in a big way. I LOVE pasta but at one point I was eating it probably 5 days out of the week for at least one meal, maybe two so I cut that out and now pasta is strictly a weekend affair. I feel so much better doing things this way and really it's not that hard if you just stay consistent with it. Your tastes begin to change the healthier you eat and suddenly that pint of ice cream doesn't seem as appealing as it once did. Of course you'll still crave junk food from time to time but not nearly as much.

It's so upsetting to me when I see parents just giving their kids whatever they want to eat just to shut them up, just fast tracking them to childhood obesity and once that is engrained in childhood it's going to be a hard habit to break. I know people who literally just make whatever food the kid wants. That isn't how it's supposed to work.

I have learnt the only way to cut out sugar is to make everything from scratch yourself, or else read every packet in the grocery store.
The really shocking thing is the number of calories in things like store bought pasta sauce or curry paste.
Solution is better mandated labeling and education

Does it matter how well labeled things are if the only available options within people's budgets are the unhealthy options? What if we did not allow companies to produce unhealthy food. Just didn't let it make it to the marketplace.

I have a friend who has struggled with her weight her whole life. She works out every day (sometimes twice) and eats really well again to no avail. A year ago she did a stomach sleeve and has lost some of her weight but most of you in this thread would still call her obese/fat. She is obsessed about her looks and weight and it causes issues with her relationships and has nearly ruined her marriage several times.

I have spent a lot of money and time over the past 10+ years trying to lose weight to no avail. I think it's safe to say I've essentially given up. Oh sure, I get lectured every visit to my doctor about my weight so I'm educated about the risks. I just don't have time to stress about it or the demands imposed on me by society. I used to be thin before I had my daughter. I am considerably larger now. Am I healthy...no. Do I care that the first thing someone will do to insult me is belittle my size...yes. I want to say no but it does sting. Why can't I just be a 'bitch' instead of a 'fat bitch'?

I like me. I'm awesome. If you don't simply because of my weight then fuck you very much. I find that's a much more healthy frame of mind then worrying about everything I eat, if I'm not taking enough 'steps' that day, etc. Maybe I'll die of a heart attack or stroke but I know a lot of 'healthy' people who've dropped dead for the same reasons. My dad was left paralyzed when he had a stroke at 24. Thin, athletic, young so what is 'health' anyway?

Mar 18, 2018 11:34:40 GMT iNCY said:

I do think mikec, that we should associate health with beauty. Obesity and anorexia are dangerous and we should celebrate the beauty of good health.

Eh, I’ve seen too many ladies smoking to try to be sexy in my life to think that health and sexiness are particularly related. Call the spade a spade. People don’t want to call larger people sexy and they use health as a code to say they aren’t.

I’m not particularly bothered by people individually not being attracted to women (or men) for whatever reason. I’ve never particularly liked blonde women. I just don’t think it does anyone any good to call people unattractive for any reason.

I've been a lot of women during my jobs over the years. I can tell you point blank I'm fat. I try my damnedest to lose weight but it's hard as hell. My whole family is big. I'm already on cholesterol medication and liver enzyme medication. I don't wish to have a stroke or a heart attack or have appendages rot off from sugar diabetes. I may lose that battle but I'll try til the end. I can tell you as a fat guy that women do pass you over if you're overweight. Same as most guys choose a skinnier woman than a fat one. We stink and I mean that literally. We fat people sweat more, so we have more to wash. If you sit down for a period of time and sweat, when you get up, you smell like a bag of ass. And if you get a yeast infection, especially a woman...we had a lift assist once on a lady who weighed more than 600 lbs. It took 7 of us to pick her up just enough to get her from stretcher to gurney. She had fat folds that were ate up with yeast infection and mold from inability and lack of hygiene. The stench was so bad, 6 of us vomited. Myself included. Also I have bedded both heavy and skinny women. The skinny one was amazing in bed. Everything hung where it was supposed to. The motion was incredible and the amount of positions was numerous. The heavy one had one position, looked like a bag of cellulite and was not good at all. So yes, advantages to skinny and medium built woman. Anything over 200 lbs...my hat's off to you gentlemen who can do it. As well as life quality? Anything over 300 lbs is a heart attack or stroke weighting to happen. Poor quality of life and personal hygiene.

May 13, 2018 5:52:05 GMT kbc said:

I've been a lot of women during my jobs over the years.

...!

May 13, 2018 15:10:29 GMT Michinokudriver said:

May 13, 2018 5:52:05 GMT kbc said:

I've been a lot of women during my jobs over the years.

...!

"seen". Damn autocorrect

May 13, 2018 5:52:05 GMT kbc said:

I've been a lot of women during my jobs over the years. I can tell you point blank I'm fat. I try my damnedest to lose weight but it's hard as hell. My whole family is big. I'm already on cholesterol medication and liver enzyme medication. I don't wish to have a stroke or a heart attack or have appendages rot off from sugar diabetes. I may lose that battle but I'll try til the end. I can tell you as a fat guy that women do pass you over if you're overweight. Same as most guys choose a skinnier woman than a fat one. We stink and I mean that literally. We fat people sweat more, so we have more to wash. If you sit down for a period of time and sweat, when you get up, you smell like a bag of ass. And if you get a yeast infection, especially a woman...we had a lift assist once on a lady who weighed more than 600 lbs. It took 7 of us to pick her up just enough to get her from stretcher to gurney. She had fat folds that were ate up with yeast infection and mold from inability and lack of hygiene. The stench was so bad, 6 of us vomited. Myself included. Also I have bedded both heavy and skinny women. The skinny one was amazing in bed. Everything hung where it was supposed to. The motion was incredible and the amount of positions was numerous. The heavy one had one position, looked like a bag of cellulite and was not good at all. So yes, advantages to skinny and medium built woman. Anything over 200 lbs...my hat's off to you gentlemen who can do it. As well as life quality? Anything over 300 lbs is a heart attack or stroke weighting to happen. Poor quality of life and personal hygiene.

Have you ever installed an app like Myfitnesspal and actually counted your calories?
Losing weight is harder for some than others, but it is 100% possible if you consume less than you burn.

I have tended towards fatness my entire adult life and my brother in law is ripped, but if I ate his diet I would be 30kg heavier than I am now even if I did everything he did.
Means I have to be stricter than him on what I eat, but it is possible. I am now down 22kg  (Almost 50lb) since October.