Did Carmella beat Charlotte Flair?

May 7, 2018 3:37:22 GMT Ed said:

Whoever helped Joe and Roman layout that match should be reprimanded.

Michael Hayes.

Tonight really showed how desperately we need Vince to go and take all his old cronies with him. They are completely out of touch and put out one of the worst shows I can remember. The only saving grace was the IC title match, and surprise surprise, that was produced by Tyson Kidd.

Carmella and MIz on the post show really leave me confused as to why talking smack was ever cancelled.

What a dumpsterfire this show was. This Roman shit has to end. Dude is toxic.

When's Dean expected back?

May 7, 2018 4:02:30 GMT Krimzon said:

What a dumpsterfire this show was. This Roman shit has to end. Dude is toxic.

It’s not Reigns fault Joe couldn’t get the crowd into the match.
Too much of Reigns getting beat down, not enough of a comeback and spears from the big dog, so he didn’t look strong enough.

Blaming Joe is silly. Clearly he was only working the match the way he was told, in order to set up that laughable spot of Roman coming back from the dead in the Coquina Clutch.

Reigns is so damaged at this point I don't see how he can have a decent/enjoyable match with anyone without a major retconning of his character. It's not even "heel" heat at this point, it's simply "we don't care and we are going to leave".

Wasn’t that called X-Pac Heat once upon a time ago?

Well, that was a PPV that started REALLY GOOD (Rollins vs. Miz was amazing) and just nosedived. Jax/Bliss and Hardy/Orton were what they were, but then Bryan/Cass had a weird ending, Carmella/Flair flat out sucked, Styles/Nakamura had a shitty ending, the tag match was less than stellar, and then Joe/Reigns was Roman Reigns overcoming the odds.

UGH. That was a waste of time. Come for the IC title match and tune out, really.

The single brand PPV’s were less of a throwaway than this card.

I was being sarcastic @hr

Went to bed after Jeff/RKO... looks like I invested wisely.

I can’t decide whether Shinsuke is completely weighing down AJ, or whether AJ at 40 years old suddenly got old. I feel like it’s a mix of both, because time can erode a wrestler without warning.

May 7, 2018 16:25:02 GMT KJ said:

I can’t decide whether Shinsuke is completely weighing down AJ, or whether AJ at 40 years old suddenly got old. I feel like it’s a mix of both, because time can erode a wrestler without warning.

It wasn't long ago that AJ was putting on clinics , Shinsuke has had like one decent match in the company. It's definitely Shinsuke. He's just not very good.

May 7, 2018 20:15:06 GMT UT said:

May 7, 2018 16:25:02 GMT KJ said:

I can’t decide whether Shinsuke is completely weighing down AJ, or whether AJ at 40 years old suddenly got old. I feel like it’s a mix of both, because time can erode a wrestler without warning.

It wasn't long ago that AJ was putting on clinics , Shinsuke has had like one decent match in the company. It's definitely Shinsuke. He's just not very good.

Ehhh ... it wasn't long ago AJ was putting on clinics, but talk to athletes: it can do like *snap* that. Not saying it did, but it'll be interesting to see how AJ rebounds.

Shinsuke has really struggled in the WWE.

May 7, 2018 3:48:48 GMT nazzer said:

Carmella and MIz on the post show really leave me confused as to why talking smack was ever cancelled.

From what I heard it was one of the lowest rated on the network.

May 7, 2018 20:24:06 GMT KJ said:

May 7, 2018 20:15:06 GMT UT said:

It wasn't long ago that AJ was putting on clinics , Shinsuke has had like one decent match in the company. It's definitely Shinsuke. He's just not very good.

Ehhh ... it wasn't long ago AJ was putting on clinics, but talk to athletes: it can do like *snap* that. Not saying it did, but it'll be interesting to see how AJ rebounds.

Shinsuke has really struggled in the WWE.

I know it can go like *that* but I prefer to take the logical side and assume it's the guy who's never proven a thing in the WWE , especially over the guy who's proven to be one of the best on the roster , if not THE best. 

May 7, 2018 21:42:19 GMT UT said:

May 7, 2018 20:24:06 GMT KJ said:

Ehhh ... it wasn't long ago AJ was putting on clinics, but talk to athletes: it can do like *snap* that. Not saying it did, but it'll be interesting to see how AJ rebounds.

Shinsuke has really struggled in the WWE.

I know it can go like *that* but I prefer to take the logical side and assume it's the guy who's never proven a thing in the WWE , especially over the guy who's proven to be one of the best on the roster , if not THE best. 

It’s illogical to consider the option a 40 year old wrestler lost a step, despite he fact we both agree the downward slope can be damn-near instantaneous?

Okay then ...

Surprised everyone is shitting on AJ/Nakamura. I thought it was leading up to be a great match before the unfortunate finish. And the finish hardly ruined the match either. It put a bit of a damper on it, but it was appropriate. Still a very good match that had the right tone considering the build. I enjoyed it more than their Mania bout. Nakamura is fresh as a heel. He needed that. He became stale as a face, even before he arrived at NXT.

Bliss/Jax was pretty good. Smartly-worked match.

The only other match I watched was Reigns/Joe. Got off to a good start, turned to shit.

The Styles/Nakamura matches might not be to everyone's taste but to suggest that AJ might have lost it is really quite ridiculous. Personally I agree with Emperor's take that it was well on it's way to being a really good match before the ending really left me blue balled. They were absolutely slugging each other and I liked that they did a No DQ match that didn't turn into a weapon fest. Honestly I would rather watch a match like that than Miz/Rollins (although I can appreciate why people enjoyed that so much) which is a bit more spectacular but personally all the finisher kickouts and no selling spots are just not for me.

May 7, 2018 22:53:15 GMT KJ said:

May 7, 2018 21:42:19 GMT UT said:

I know it can go like *that* but I prefer to take the logical side and assume it's the guy who's never proven a thing in the WWE , especially over the guy who's proven to be one of the best on the roster , if not THE best. 

It’s illogical to consider the option a 40 year old wrestler lost a step, despite he fact we both agree the downward slope can be damn-near instantaneous?

Okay then ...

No it's illogical to look at two wrestlers , one of which (Styles) has been a workhorse and put on good matches week in and week out in the WWE and the other (Nakamura) who's had like one good match since joining the WWE and blame the workhorse , even despite his age. 

I suppose it would be logical to blame Daniel Bryan for the match against Cass too right? Judging by your logic anyways , because it's just as likely for Bryan to have lost a step after a career threatening injury than it is for Styles at the age of 40. 

Also 40 is pretty damn young by today's standards , but that's neither here nor there. 

May 7, 2018 21:36:31 GMT Ed said:

May 7, 2018 3:48:48 GMT nazzer said:

Carmella and MIz on the post show really leave me confused as to why talking smack was ever cancelled.

From what I heard it was one of the lowest rated on the network.

Can that be blamed on the people on the show or how much the main event ducked. If people didn't like the show they won't tune into the after show.

May 8, 2018 1:01:06 GMT UT said:

May 7, 2018 22:53:15 GMT KJ said:

It’s illogical to consider the option a 40 year old wrestler lost a step, despite he fact we both agree the downward slope can be damn-near instantaneous?

Okay then ...

No it's illogical to look at two wrestlers , one of which (Styles) has been a workhorse and put on good matches week in and week out in the WWE and the other (Nakamura) who's had like one good match since joining the WWE and blame the workhorse , even despite his age. 

I suppose it would be logical to blame Daniel Bryan for the match against Cass too right? Judging by your logic anyways , because it's just as likely for Bryan to have lost a step after a career threatening injury than it is for Styles at the age of 40. 

Also 40 is pretty damn young by today's standards , but that's neither here nor there. 

I'll be the first to say Bryan has been "meh" since coming back ... so yeah, it's logical to think a guy one month into a return after three years off isn't at the top of his game.

Styles has been pretty bleh, Brock match at SS aside, for the better part of six months. Shit, his feud with KO was pretty blah, and that went all summer.

May 8, 2018 1:59:35 GMT nazzer said:

May 7, 2018 21:36:31 GMT Ed said:

From what I heard it was one of the lowest rated on the network.

Can that be blamed on the people on the show or how much the main event ducked. If people didn't like the show they won't tune into the after show.

Ed's talking about the show in general.

You could blame it on 205Live, but the more logical answer is that after two hours of SmackDown, whatever audience SmackDown had couldn't be bothered to tune into see the show.

If Renee was keen to continue the show, I don't see the harm in the WWE taking the hit. If nothing else, it gives you more footage to use in order to sell your roster as stars.

May 8, 2018 3:44:39 GMT Big Pete said:

May 8, 2018 1:59:35 GMT nazzer said:

Can that be blamed on the people on the show or how much the main event ducked. If people didn't like the show they won't tune into the after show.

Ed's talking about the show in general.

You could blame it on 205Live, but the more logical answer is that after two hours of SmackDown, whatever audience SmackDown had couldn't be bothered to tune into see the show.

If Renee was keen to continue the show, I don't see the harm in the WWE taking the hit. If nothing else, it gives you more footage to use in order to sell your roster as stars.

oh thanks, I thought we were referring to the post backlash show as the lowest rated ever. Cheers

May 8, 2018 2:05:31 GMT KJ said:

May 8, 2018 1:01:06 GMT UT said:

No it's illogical to look at two wrestlers , one of which (Styles) has been a workhorse and put on good matches week in and week out in the WWE and the other (Nakamura) who's had like one good match since joining the WWE and blame the workhorse , even despite his age. 

I suppose it would be logical to blame Daniel Bryan for the match against Cass too right? Judging by your logic anyways , because it's just as likely for Bryan to have lost a step after a career threatening injury than it is for Styles at the age of 40. 

Also 40 is pretty damn young by today's standards , but that's neither here nor there. 

I'll be the first to say Bryan has been "meh" since coming back ... so yeah, it's logical to think a guy one month into a return after three years off isn't at the top of his game.

Styles has been pretty bleh, Brock match at SS aside, for the better part of six months. Shit, his feud with KO was pretty blah, and that went all summer.

He's wrestled as part of a tag match where he sat out for like 80% of it and against Big Cass , I thought he was wonderful in the GRR. I just don't understand you putting the onus on the guys who have proven what they can do in the ring over the guys who haven't proven a fucking thing. 

I get that Nakamura has fanboys , but he's been quite bad in the WWE. 

KJ, did you see Styles/Bryan from the Post-Mania edition of SD? Not calling it a Match of the Year contender, but certainly a good TV match and a promising sign of things to come.

I've actually enjoyed all the Styles/Nakamura matches so far. I still think they should have gone all out for the Wrestlemania match and sold the idea of it being this magic match and Nakamura being a sore loser, but clearly they wanted to hold off on stuff for their program. So far their matches at the Greatest Royal Rumble & Backlash have been good but haven't been able to go to that next level because they keep cutting it off before the finishing stretch. These days, I'd argue the finishing stretch is more important than any other bout. You could have the most boring opening imagineable, but if you put together some great reversals and near-falls, fans will remember it as this all-time great match.

I enjoyed their GRR match the best , even the ending didn't bug me because it seemed like it was leading to something and that made sense. What it led to though was a decent start of a match that devolved into a dick punching contest for whatever reason.

Across the board, Backlash was the most phoned-in show of all-time. Styles/Nakamura have to develop their rivalry beyond the low-blow, but I can forgive them given the objective of the match.

Of course, this comes with the benefit of hindsight but I question why the Joe/Roman was made. Joe is on Smackdown and could use a big win, a loss doesn't help him but isn't debilitating, Given the construct of things a win seems less meaningful for either guy. All and all this match comes across as a filler match with no purpose and the match was wrestled that way.

May 8, 2018 13:26:42 GMT UT said:

May 8, 2018 2:05:31 GMT KJ said:

I'll be the first to say Bryan has been "meh" since coming back ... so yeah, it's logical to think a guy one month into a return after three years off isn't at the top of his game.

Styles has been pretty bleh, Brock match at SS aside, for the better part of six months. Shit, his feud with KO was pretty blah, and that went all summer.

He's wrestled as part of a tag match where he sat out for like 80% of it and against Big Cass , I thought he was wonderful in the GRR. I just don't understand you putting the onus on the guys who have proven what they can do in the ring over the guys who haven't proven a fucking thing. 

I get that Nakamura has fanboys , but he's been quite bad in the WWE. 

I'm pretty sure I've called out Shinsuke (re: 100% did).

The only reason we're going in circles is because you incorrectly used the word "illogical" and got called for it. "Improbable"? "Unlikely"? Sure; I'm aligned. But words matter, and calling my question illogical was false when we agreed on the basis of the statement.

Other than that, I'm done with this.