What the title says.

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/pelosi-top-democrats-privately-discuss-creation-of-select-committee-for-impeachment/2019/09/24/af6f735a-dedf-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

First legit impeachment movement since the Dems won congress last year. Most likely scenario is this goes to the Senate and gets killed, but the GOP senators will have to live with voting down the impeachment of a corrupt traitor sitting in the Oval Office. Maybe it hurts them in 2020, maybe it doesn’t.

I’ll save my opinions for the ensuing battle we’re going to have by me posting this.

I'm just here for the The Kid rant.

Great diversion by the left to stop the flames at Biden.

I don’t have any rant because it’s a joke. We are getting closer to 2020 and they are trying to take all the negativity off of them but they’re digging their hole even deeper. Trumps going to win in a bigger landslide in 2020 then when he washed the floor with Hillary.

The Kid, why do you like Trump?

Sept 24, 2019 21:11:28 GMT RT said:

What the title says.

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/pelosi-top-democrats-privately-discuss-creation-of-select-committee-for-impeachment/2019/09/24/af6f735a-dedf-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

First legit impeachment movement since the Dems won congress last year. Most likely scenario is this goes to the Senate and gets killed, but the GOP senators will have to live with voting down the impeachment of a corrupt traitor sitting in the Oval Office. Maybe it hurts them in 2020, maybe it doesn’t.

I’ll save my opinions for the ensuing battle we’re going to have by me posting this.

This is going absolutely nowhere.   They don't have the votes in the Senate, and their case for impeachment is practically nonexistent.   Trump is even releasing transcripts of the phone call, which should be a pretty clear indicator the Dems have nothing.    If the Dems really push impeachment they will hand Trump the 2020 election if they haven't already.

Impeachment is nothing short of overturning the will of the voting public.    If you don't have airtight bi-partisan support it is nothing less than a waste of time and effort, and only serves to divide the country further.

I’ll believe it when I see it.
I don’t really see anything stopping Trump from re-election at this point.

Sept 25, 2019 1:08:56 GMT Lionheart said:

The Kid, why do you like Trump?

I don't like Trump at all but I hate the current crop of democrats ten times more.
I wonder if this is a part play of taking out Biden, this is going to bring out all the corruption around his son... Then maybe Pelosi or Hillary step up because the situation calls for a steady hand.

I think from a pure political perspective that this is suicide for the dems they look all full of bluster.
And the loons on Twitter talking about "resisting" and "about time" they do realise that you can't just impeach someone because they hurt your feelings

You aren’t The Kid!

Hey, anyone is better than Hillary in my book so I’m not complaining.

Sept 25, 2019 3:29:31 GMT Lionheart said:

You aren’t The Kid!

I'm aware of this fact, but thank you for bringing it to my attention!

Sept 25, 2019 2:50:40 GMT thereallt said:

Sept 24, 2019 21:11:28 GMT RT said:

What the title says.

www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/pelosi-top-democrats-privately-discuss-creation-of-select-committee-for-impeachment/2019/09/24/af6f735a-dedf-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

First legit impeachment movement since the Dems won congress last year. Most likely scenario is this goes to the Senate and gets killed, but the GOP senators will have to live with voting down the impeachment of a corrupt traitor sitting in the Oval Office. Maybe it hurts them in 2020, maybe it doesn’t.

I’ll save my opinions for the ensuing battle we’re going to have by me posting this.

This is going absolutely nowhere.   They don't have the votes in the Senate, and their case for impeachment is practically nonexistent.   Trump is even releasing transcripts of the phone call, which should be a pretty clear indicator the Dems have nothing.    If the Dems really push impeachment they will hand Trump the 2020 election if they haven't already.

Impeachment is nothing short of overturning the will of the voting public.    If you don't have airtight bi-partisan support it is nothing less than a waste of time and effort, and only serves to divide the country further.

I think the Dems might be sacrificing the White House in the immediate term for Congress in the next go-round. Trump is, if nothing else, deeply polarizing and the Dems might be able to take a contested purple area (either in 2020 or 2022/24) and like RT said run ads along the lines of "your Republican incumbent voted to protect this (hopefully by now indefensible and unpopular) corrupt criminal."

I mean really, even though politics is a horse race I can't begin to pretend I can predict, who are the Dems going to run in 2020? Biden? Sanders (whose policies are already being adopted by the younger generation and probably works better as the grumpy iconoclast than the guy in charge)? Kamala Harris? Beto "we're taking your guns" O'Rourke?

I'm reminded of a line from the 90s comic Transmetropolitan where the protagonist, gonzo journalist/cyberpunk-Hunter-Thompson Spider Jerusalem is talking about taking down the President:

and I dunno, maybe Pelosi's got something big. Maybe after years of watching the left flail at little things, after watching outrage fatigue set in and Trump's supporters nonchalantly dismissing minor scandals one by one, maybe she did stockpile one big case, craft one huge undeniable spear and is ready to shove the whole thing through his heart in one go.

Or not.

Michinokudriver, mad props for the Transmetropolitan reference.
Do you think this is Pelosi though? Do you think she has lost control of the party to AOC and the left wing nut job brigade?
They are rabid about Trump about the strangest things, I mean ICE is only doing what they are meant to do. 

Well the transcripts came out and they’re as damning as congress said. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise. With all Trump has done since congress went blue, and no movement on impeachment until now, they obviously contained something big. thereallt

Again, this will die in the Senate, but I don’t think the Dems care about that. They’re doing what their constituents want them to do, and forcing the GOPs hand. “Stand up and defend a traitor to your country,” is all this is about.

Biden is dropping in the polls too. Warren has passed him in (Idaho?) I think. Sanders won’t go away. I’m not sure if this will help or hurt him further, but I guess we’ll see. I still think he wins the nomination pretty easily.

Fun times. I hope the whistleblower is someone crazy like Melania and not just some staffer nobody knows.

EDIT: I should add before someone argues stupidly: it’s not a transcript, it’s a memo. And even in this memo that doesn’t have the entire conversation in it, Trump still did what congress says he did.

Sept 25, 2019 15:15:46 GMT RT said:

Well the transcripts came out and they’re as damning as congress said. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise. With all Trump has done since congress went blue, and no movement on impeachment until now, they obviously contained something big. thereallt

Again, this will die in the Senate, but I don’t think the Dems care about that. They’re doing what their constituents want them to do, and forcing the GOPs hand. “Stand up and defend a traitor to your country,” is all this is about.

Biden is dropping in the polls too. Warren has passed him in (Idaho?) I think. Sanders won’t go away. I’m not sure if this will help or hurt him further, but I guess we’ll see. I still think he wins the nomination pretty easily.

Fun times. I hope the whistleblower is someone crazy like Melania and not just some staffer nobody knows.

EDIT: I should add before someone argues stupidly: it’s not a transcript, it’s a memo. And even in this memo that doesn’t have the entire conversation in it, Trump still did what congress says he did.

There is no quid pro quo whatsoever on the transcript.    The Democrats have to INFER such an arrangement from what Trump said.   Hardly a great standard for impeachment.    

And once again, without airtight bi-partisan support, the Democrats are wasting their time and the country's time.   The voters will not forget.

Sept 25, 2019 16:05:19 GMT thereallt said:

Sept 25, 2019 15:15:46 GMT RT said:

Well the transcripts came out and they’re as damning as congress said. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise. With all Trump has done since congress went blue, and no movement on impeachment until now, they obviously contained something big. thereallt

Again, this will die in the Senate, but I don’t think the Dems care about that. They’re doing what their constituents want them to do, and forcing the GOPs hand. “Stand up and defend a traitor to your country,” is all this is about.

Biden is dropping in the polls too. Warren has passed him in (Idaho?) I think. Sanders won’t go away. I’m not sure if this will help or hurt him further, but I guess we’ll see. I still think he wins the nomination pretty easily.

Fun times. I hope the whistleblower is someone crazy like Melania and not just some staffer nobody knows.

EDIT: I should add before someone argues stupidly: it’s not a transcript, it’s a memo. And even in this memo that doesn’t have the entire conversation in it, Trump still did what congress says he did.

There is no quid pro quo whatsoever on the transcript.    The Democrats have to INFER such an arrangement from what Trump said.   Hardly a great standard for impeachment.    

And once again, without airtight bi-partisan support, the Democrats are wasting their time and the country's time.   The voters will not forget.

Turn off Fox News you goof. You’re just spouting the same nonsense they are.

Once again, it isn’t a transcript. It’s a memo. There’s a big difference there.

Remember this phone call took place right after the Trump admin withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Then during the phone call he also mentioned not sending military support. All while explicitly asking for favours to investigate Biden, his son, and also asking about the DNC servers (AGAIN with the emails).

And he implicated Barr, who turned around and refused to investigate the initial complaint about illegal activity regarding this very phone call. I WONDER WHY

And on top of everything else, Zelinsky said out loud that he stayed at Trump Tower when he was in NYC. Trump has no control over that, sure, but there’s yet even more evidence for the emoluments case. Remember when Pence and military personnel were just dinged for this same exact thing like two weeks ago?

Sept 25, 2019 16:44:24 GMT RT said:

Sept 25, 2019 16:05:19 GMT thereallt said:

There is no quid pro quo whatsoever on the transcript.    The Democrats have to INFER such an arrangement from what Trump said.   Hardly a great standard for impeachment.    

And once again, without airtight bi-partisan support, the Democrats are wasting their time and the country's time.   The voters will not forget.

Turn off Fox News you goof. You’re just spouting the same nonsense they are.

Once again, it isn’t a transcript. It’s a memo. There’s a big difference there.

Remember this phone call took place right after the Trump admin withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Then during the phone call he also mentioned not sending military support. All while explicitly asking for favours to investigate Biden, his son, and also asking about the DNC servers (AGAIN with the emails).

And he implicated Barr, who turned around and refused to investigate the initial complaint about illegal activity regarding this very phone call. I WONDER WHY

And on top of everything else, Zelinsky said out loud that he stayed at Trump Tower when he was in NYC. Trump has no control over that, sure, but there’s yet even more evidence for the emoluments case. Remember when Pence and military personnel were just dinged for this same exact thing like two weeks ago?

And this is just the stuff the White House WANTS us to see. Imagine what was left off. I know that can’t be used, but I have a feeling an investigation will uncover more details.

Yawn.

Sept 25, 2019 16:44:24 GMT RT said:

Sept 25, 2019 16:05:19 GMT thereallt said:

There is no quid pro quo whatsoever on the transcript.    The Democrats have to INFER such an arrangement from what Trump said.   Hardly a great standard for impeachment.    

And once again, without airtight bi-partisan support, the Democrats are wasting their time and the country's time.   The voters will not forget.

Turn off Fox News you goof. You’re just spouting the same nonsense they are.

Once again, it isn’t a transcript. It’s a memo. There’s a big difference there.

Remember this phone call took place right after the Trump admin withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Then during the phone call he also mentioned not sending military support. All while explicitly asking for favours to investigate Biden, his son, and also asking about the DNC servers (AGAIN with the emails).

And he implicated Barr, who turned around and refused to investigate the initial complaint about illegal activity regarding this very phone call. I WONDER WHY

And on top of everything else, Zelinsky said out loud that he stayed at Trump Tower when he was in NYC. Trump has no control over that, sure, but there’s yet even more evidence for the emoluments case. Remember when Pence and military personnel were just dinged for this same exact thing like two weeks ago?

And the same thing was said about the Russia probe, and the SAME thing was said about the Mueller report..etc...etc...etc....

The cold hard facts is the Democrats have NOTHING.  Yet again.     And the OTHER cold hard fact is that unless you have broad bipartisan support impeachment is a waste of time.   The Republicans learned that the hard way during the Clinton presidency is they essentially handed control of Congress to the Democrats because of it.      Dollars to donuts this is EXACTLY what is going to happen here if the Dems are dumb enough to follow through with this.

It isn’t that they have nothing, it’s that they knew going for impeachment with the way politics are now was pointless. Even with so much evidence against Trump, they knew the GOP would just stand by him no matter what because they suck and put party above country.

Now it’s at a point where if they don’t do anything they’ll just lose congress again in 2020 because everyone that voted them in last year is pissed off they aren’t at least trying to hold Trump accountable. They’re doing what they were voted in to do, and they’re going to keep control of Congress by doing so. And their hopes are that once the Republican Senate votes down impeachment, they’ll flip the Senate too just in case Trump somehow wins again in 2020. They can just boot him out.

This is far different from the Clinton impeachment and acting like it’s going to be the same in the end is silly. Clinton lied about getting a blowjob. Trump is flat out throwing America under the bus for foreign powers and isn’t even trying to hide it anymore.

Also this is fun theweek.com/speedreads/867641/white-house-accidentally-emailed-ukraine-talking-points-nancy-pelosi

Sept 25, 2019 17:12:03 GMT The Kid said:

Yawn.

The Kid, why do you like Trump?

Lionheart

I have already answered this a million times and would rather not do it again.

Sept 25, 2019 16:44:24 GMT RT said:

Sept 25, 2019 16:05:19 GMT thereallt said:

There is no quid pro quo whatsoever on the transcript.    The Democrats have to INFER such an arrangement from what Trump said.   Hardly a great standard for impeachment.    

And once again, without airtight bi-partisan support, the Democrats are wasting their time and the country's time.   The voters will not forget.

Turn off Fox News you goof. You’re just spouting the same nonsense they are.

Once again, it isn’t a transcript. It’s a memo. There’s a big difference there.

Remember this phone call took place right after the Trump admin withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Then during the phone call he also mentioned not sending military support. All while explicitly asking for favours to investigate Biden, his son, and also asking about the DNC servers (AGAIN with the emails).

And he implicated Barr, who turned around and refused to investigate the initial complaint about illegal activity regarding this very phone call. I WONDER WHY

And on top of everything else, Zelinsky said out loud that he stayed at Trump Tower when he was in NYC. Trump has no control over that, sure, but there’s yet even more evidence for the emoluments case. Remember when Pence and military personnel were just dinged for this same exact thing like two weeks ago?

Why is everyone so hysterical about this?
If people don't like Trump, vote for someone else at the next election. Is what he did crass and in bad taste? Most probably, but did he cross some red line that makes him a danger to the USA? Nope!
When they tried to impeach Clinton for a bj it was garbage and so is this. 

Everyone is so damned hysterical about Trump, but there is no real reason to be... Yes, he's an asshole but he won the election. 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


She hasn't even READ THE FUCKING DOCUMENT!!!!!  


This is such a farce.

That means nothing. More Fox News sensationalism. Stop falling for it. You’re smarter than that.

She’s the speaker of the house so it’s her job to speak for Congress, who wants to push forward with impeachment. When she has time to read it she will. Her not reading it doesn’t make what’s in the document any less real.

Sept 26, 2019 0:38:14 GMT RT said:

That means nothing. More Fox News sensationalism. Stop falling for it. You’re smarter than that.

She’s the speaker of the house so it’s her job to speak for Congress, who wants to push forward with impeachment. When she has time to read it she will. Her not reading it doesn’t make what’s in the document any less real.

Fox News Sensationalism???  Those are HER WORDS.  Verbatim.    This shows Pelosi is now a slave to the hard left.  

They also have no bi-partisan support in Congress  either.   This is almost completely party line.

Sept 25, 2019 9:33:02 GMT iNCY said:

Michinokudriver , mad props for the Transmetropolitan reference.
Do you think this is Pelosi though? Do you think she has lost control of the party to AOC and the left wing nut job brigade?
They are rabid about Trump about the strangest things, I mean ICE is only doing what they are meant to do. 

Hard to say, but I doubt it. I'm a Pelosi homer (she's representing my city) so I'm fully aware I might have my blinders on but Pelosi's been doing this a long time, she knows how the game is played and I don't think she's been usurped. If the new blood are smart -- and I don't think they're stupid -- they probably also recognize her as a resource, no matter whether they disagree with her on smaller details.

Pelosi is damn near 80 so I wouldn't be surprised if she is looking at the end of her career, thinking about winding it down and passing control over to someone else who possibly yes is in the left wing nut job brigade.

ICE is -- to a degree yes you're right, they are meant to protect the border and it ain't pretty and no one likes to watch the sausage get made. But also, they are being needlessly abusive. Splitting children from their caretakers in case they aren't *actually* their parents used to be reserved for the most obvious and the most questionable of cases, now it's a matter of course. Not letting asylum seekers -- the ones who presented themselves at the borders and asked for sanctuary, LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, clean their clothes or even shower, letting them go hungry. The cruelty is the point.

Sept 26, 2019 0:00:06 GMT thereallt said:

She hasn't even READ THE FUCKING DOCUMENT!!!!!  


This is such a farce.

yeah

so

I def have questions for sure but this isn't quite the smoking gun to the smoking gun. Like mentioned upstream, this isn't a verbatim transcript (as far as I know that doesn't exist); this is a memo compiled by people who were on the calls and transcribed to the best of their memories. So it certainly could be that Pelosi knew generally what the document would have said but doesn't know the exact verbiage, like the difference between a first draft of a novel and the final published version.

Also, I'm looking at the timestamp on the vid and while I can't find for sure when the document got released, they asked her if she'd read it at 9:30 in the morning. It most likely had been out for less than two hours before then, so I'm thinking that was the case after all. She definitely knew the broad strokes of what would be in it, even if she didn't know the specific words regarding how it would be paraphrased.

Isn't she the one who said they had to vote on the ACA to find out what's in it? Some reason I have that as a quote from her. Maybe she just doesn't like to read?

Sept 26, 2019 1:08:39 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Sept 25, 2019 9:33:02 GMT iNCY said:

Michinokudriver , mad props for the Transmetropolitan reference.
Do you think this is Pelosi though? Do you think she has lost control of the party to AOC and the left wing nut job brigade?
They are rabid about Trump about the strangest things, I mean ICE is only doing what they are meant to do. 

Hard to say, but I doubt it. I'm a Pelosi homer (she's representing my city) so I'm fully aware I might have my blinders on but Pelosi's been doing this a long time, she knows how the game is played and I don't think she's been usurped. If the new blood are smart -- and I don't think they're stupid -- they probably also recognize her as a resource, no matter whether they disagree with her on smaller details.

Pelosi is damn near 80 so I wouldn't be surprised if she is looking at the end of her career, thinking about winding it down and passing control over to someone else who possibly yes is in the left wing nut job brigade.

ICE is -- to a degree yes you're right, they are meant to protect the border and it ain't pretty and no one likes to watch the sausage get made. But also, they are being needlessly abusive. Splitting children from their caretakers in case they aren't *actually* their parents used to be reserved for the most obvious and the most questionable of cases, now it's a matter of course. Not letting asylum seekers -- the ones who presented themselves at the borders and asked for sanctuary, LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, clean their clothes or even shower, letting them go hungry. The cruelty is the point.

Sept 26, 2019 0:00:06 GMT thereallt said:

She hasn't even READ THE FUCKING DOCUMENT!!!!!  


This is such a farce.

yeah

so

I def have questions for sure but this isn't quite the smoking gun to the smoking gun. Like mentioned upstream, this isn't a verbatim transcript (as far as I know that doesn't exist); this is a memo compiled by people who were on the calls and transcribed to the best of their memories. So it certainly could be that Pelosi knew generally what the document would have said but doesn't know the exact verbiage, like the difference between a first draft of a novel and the final published version.

Also, I'm looking at the timestamp on the vid and while I can't find for sure when the document got released, they asked her if she'd read it at 9:30 in the morning. It most likely had been out for less than two hours before then, so I'm thinking that was the case after all. She definitely knew the broad strokes of what would be in it, even if she didn't know the specific words regarding how it would be paraphrased.

Children are separated from their parents every day in America.   If I get arrested for a DUI, guess what?   I'm separated from my kids.    People crossing the border illegally are breaking American law.   There should be NO surprise they are separated from their children when they are arrested. 

Now the ones that are legally presenting themselves at the Border for asylum, the issue isn't so much willful cruelty as it is that the Border Patrol and ICE are absolutely starved for resources right now.    And the hard left voted AGAINST a bill to relieve some of those harsh conditions, so that showed me just how much they really care about this issue.    They would rather have those asylum seekers suffering to make a political point.

Sept 26, 2019 1:09:15 GMT Ness said:

Isn't she the one who said they had to vote on the ACA to find out what's in it? Some reason I have that as a quote from her. Maybe she just doesn't like to read?

Eh, technically yes but no.

The ACA, as presented, had been presented and available for the past five months when she said that, and was very much the biggest topic of its time. If (R)'s were saying they can't vote on it because they haven't read it yet it's sort of on them, no?

Sept 26, 2019 1:17:44 GMT thereallt said:

Children are separated from their parents every day in America.   If I get arrested for a DUI, guess what?   I'm separated from my kids.    People crossing the border illegally are breaking American law.   There should be NO surprise they are separated from their children when they are arrested. 

Now the ones that are legally presenting themselves at the Border for asylum, the issue isn't so much willful cruelty as it is that the Border Patrol and ICE are absolutely starved for resources right now.    And the hard left voted AGAINST a bill to relieve some of those harsh conditions, so that showed me just how much they really care about this issue.    They would rather have those asylum seekers suffering to make a political point.

[first point] I think it comes down to a difference of opinion re: how vigorously we should go after illegal immigrants. To me it's more of a victimless crime -- going after illegal immigrants for being illegal immigrants is like going after jaywalkers or jerkass bicyclists who run through stop signs. Like, we've got crazy people planning to kill regular people they're convinced are robots wearing human flesh, you've got car break-ins at ridiculously high numbers, but aggressively pursuing jaywalkers is where you want to put your manpower?

[second point] Agreed on Border Patrol being starved for resources. The hard left voted against the bill mostly because they did not believe the extra monies would go towards relieving conditions but rather to detention managers' bonuses, which... eh, I dunno about that one.

.

Sept 26, 2019 2:07:14 GMT Michinokudriver said:

Sept 26, 2019 1:17:44 GMT thereallt said:

Children are separated from their parents every day in America.   If I get arrested for a DUI, guess what?   I'm separated from my kids.    People crossing the border illegally are breaking American law.   There should be NO surprise they are separated from their children when they are arrested. 

Now the ones that are legally presenting themselves at the Border for asylum, the issue isn't so much willful cruelty as it is that the Border Patrol and ICE are absolutely starved for resources right now.    And the hard left voted AGAINST a bill to relieve some of those harsh conditions, so that showed me just how much they really care about this issue.    They would rather have those asylum seekers suffering to make a political point.

[first point] I think it comes down to a difference of opinion re: how vigorously we should go after illegal immigrants. To me it's more of a victimless crime -- going after illegal immigrants for being illegal immigrants is like going after jaywalkers or jerkass bicyclists who run through stop signs. Like, we've got crazy people planning to kill regular people they're convinced are robots wearing human flesh, you've got car break-ins at ridiculously high numbers, but aggressively pursuing jaywalkers is where you want to put your manpower?

[second point] Agreed on Border Patrol being starved for resources. The hard left voted against the bill mostly because they did not believe the extra monies would go towards relieving conditions but rather to detention managers' bonuses, which... eh, I dunno about that one.

.

I couldn't disagree with you more, illegal immigration is a literal cancer on society, they consume resources and pay no tax. 
There is one argument for increasing immigration, but let it be through the front door where we audit and take the best and brightest. 
But for it being like jaywalking... When someone jaywalks their kids are not at school diverting resources away from your kids. 

The only way to stop illegal immigration is to make it ugly enough to deter people. 
All of these people who are anti ICE probably don't have communities where resources are being siphoned away. 

The idea that sovereign borders are racist is crap as.