So the Indy wrestling company I wrestled for, has hosted shows at the same venue since November 2014. The only two major issues we’ve had in that time were a cancellation of a show, and secondly a glassing incident.
(Fan threw a schooner glass at a heel wrestler, bounced back and hit girl in the crowd). The latter obviously wasn’t the company’s fault.

The rival promotion has once tried to book the same venue as us once unsuccessfully. Now I find out said company has given the venue a official proposal to the venue and plan to have the company I wrestled for kicked out. While not illegal, it seems like a very underhanded thing to do in my opinion but the venue obviously only care about money not loyalty (despite drawing same crowds).
Obviously there is nothing stopping them from booking same venue, but working to get them kicked out of venue as well is messed up IMO.

Which brings me to shady business practices, have you encountered any? I’ve been around just straight up scammers like the mixtape guys in NYC (just ignored them) but the closest I can think of was a dodgy DVD shop that was in the shopping centre one time.

Huge sign marked DVD’s $2, turns out only a very select few are $2 and the rest are $10. I end up buying an AJ Styles DVD and an ECW DVD. They were part 2 and part 1 of a two disc DVD set 😂. My own fault but still wasn’t happy when I discovered.

Anyway what shady business business practices or scams have you encountered?

A few large-scale examples:

95% of all banking is an absolute sham.

The fact everyone promotes the stock market as if its actually the economy is a sham.

All personal injury lawyers advertising on TV or billboards.

I live in Canada where despite what they say we have a monopoly on cell phone plans and cable. I guarantee if you compare what we pay for both for what we get it's criminal.  What's worse is we can't get things like the WWE Network without going through our cable company. They have us by the short and curlies any way you slice it unles syou say no to cable and cell phone usage.

Also, I guarantee if you work for a large company despite if they force you to take a yearly online ethics course, they skirt those same ethics and morals daily all for the sake of the almighty $.   

Recently, our company laid off a bunch of administrative positions and hired others for those same positions as 'contract' workers.  They pay a bit more per hour usually but this saves them paying out sick days, vacation days and benefits, etc.  Not illegal but moral?  Meh.  Right up there with farming out IT or accounting divisions to other countries.  Not illegal but moral?  Ambiguous IMO. 

Is this a future post? Because November 2018 didn't happen yet. Has age cost me memory? Has life scammed me?!

I don't think it's an evil act System, one promotion is offering a long-term working/business relationship with a venue. And to ensure the investment for both parties is a success, you'd remove potentially the biggest opponent to it.

Aug 10, 2018 23:57:17 GMT NATH45 said:

I don't think it's an evil act System, one promotion is offering a long-term working/business relationship with a venue. And to ensure the investment for both parties is a success, you'd remove potentially the biggest opponent to it.

Indy I’m with held events for the last 4 years straight, solely at the venue. You’d think that partnership would already exist after that many shows but obviously not.

Aug 11, 2018 0:32:30 GMT System said:

Aug 10, 2018 23:57:17 GMT NATH45 said:

I don't think it's an evil act System , one promotion is offering a long-term working/business relationship with a venue. And to ensure the investment for both parties is a success, you'd remove potentially the biggest opponent to it.

Indy I’m with held events for the last 4 years straight, solely at the venue. You’d think that partnership would already exist after that many shows but obviously not.

Maybe should have locked it in officially, with the advent of a new promotion looking to move on in.

Two promotions booking venues consistently in the same area, in Australia? This has the makings of a great feud in the vain of ROH v CZW.

Aug 11, 2018 0:47:35 GMT NATH45 said:

Aug 11, 2018 0:32:30 GMT System said:

Indy I’m with held events for the last 4 years straight, solely at the venue. You’d think that partnership would already exist after that many shows but obviously not.

Maybe should have locked it in officially, with the advent of a new promotion looking to move on in.

Two promotions booking venues consistently in the same area, in Australia? This has the makings of a great feud in the vain of ROH v CZW.

They did it completely under the radar, I only found out about it because I work there, which makes things complicated for me.

It happens all the time in Australia, it’s a lot similar to old territory system..just a bit less successful 😂. Shows run the same nights often which is frowned upon..but booking the exact same venue is heavily frowned upon.

I suppose you could just include this in banking, but the credit industry specifically is one of the bigger scams. I don't mean fraudulent cases either, I mean what is considered perfectly legal, the system itself. When you consider how much is dependent on credit score, and a good credit score entails BEING IN SOME FORM OF DEBT, you have one of the most rigged systems ever deviated. I mean, what backwards fucking logic. Everything paid off? Fuck you. Credit score is going down now. The fact that being considered a functioning member of society economically is to owe money to a billion (trillion?) dollar industry, in which it is in our best interest to pay them something every single month for the rest of our lives, is so beyond fucked.

Aug 11, 2018 1:15:47 GMT Kilgore said:

I suppose you could just include this in banking, but the credit industry specifically is one of the bigger scams. I don't mean fraudulent cases either, I mean what is considered perfectly legal, the system itself. When you consider how much is dependent on credit score, and a good credit score entails BEING IN SOME FORM OF DEBT, you have one of the most rigged systems ever deviated. I mean, what backwards fucking logic. Everything paid off? Fuck you. Credit score is going down now. The fact that being considered a functioning member of society economically is to owe money to a billion (trillion?) dollar industry, in which it is in our best interest to pay them something every single month for the rest of our lives, is so beyond fucked.

Personally here in Australia, 12 years ago as a young man buying my first home, here I am with savings, a deposit in excess of what was considered the minimal, a full time job and having owned and bought 3 cars within 6 years.. with cash. And still this backwards logic stalled getting a home loan. Go figure that out.

Sorry KJ, Kilgore, but I don't buy that banking is a scam.
It's a business and they operate for profit, but for some reason people expect them to exist for public betterment.
I find banks refreshing because you get all the details.

Food companies arent open about where their ingredients from.
Same companies are working on making food more addictive in laboratories while obesity rates spiral... Big food is the new big tobacco.
Monsanto are also ass hats.

And System,survival of the fittest is the cornerstone of capitalism, so not too much sympathy there.

Aug 11, 2018 11:08:02 GMT iNCY said:

Sorry KJ, Kilgore, but I don't buy that banking is a scam.
It's a business and they operate for profit, but for some reason people expect them to exist for public betterment.
I find banks refreshing because you get all the details.

Food companies arent open about where their ingredients from.
Same companies are working on making food more addictive in laboratories while obesity rates spiral... Big food is the new big tobacco.
Monsanto are also ass hats.

And System,survival of the fittest is the cornerstone of capitalism, so not too much sympathy there.

There definitely questionable ethics/scams around banking. Just looks at Wells Fargo, for instance.

Aug 11, 2018 11:08:02 GMT iNCY said:

Sorry KJ, Kilgore, but I don't buy that banking is a scam.

It's a business and they operate for profit, but for some reason people expect them to exist for public betterment.

I find banks refreshing because you get all the details.

Banks manipulate interest rates as part of their business model. Sometimes they get caught, but most of the time they do not. Also, you may have heard of this little thing called subprime mortgage crisis, one of the biggest scams ever concocted by financial institutions, with zero major bankers facing any consequences and taxpayer money footing the bill to bail out their fraud. After the near collapse of the banking system, you'd think they'd stop, but no, they're doing the exact same thing with loopholes, and are flooding millions of dollars to American politicians, as legal bribes to further loosen regulations, as they do every single election cycle, to do god knows what next to fuck over consumers. 

KJ, Kilgore, Still not a scam though...
The Sub prime lending saga was crap, but nobody was really scammed, in a country where you are trusted to own a gun surely you're not claiming not to be responsible enough to read a loan application.
Same deal with derivatives, people got greedy, but it was legal and the risk was right there for anyone who was looking.
The government shouldn't have bailed them out... They all deserved it, that's capitalism.
As for donations for political favoritism, that't basically how democracy works these days.

Wait... Banks are far more complicated and dangerous than guns. Right?

Aug 16, 2018 9:57:53 GMT iNCY said:

KJ , Kilgore , Still not a scam though...
The Sub prime lending saga was crap, but nobody was really scammed, in a country where you are trusted to own a gun surely you're not claiming not to be responsible enough to read a loan application.
Same deal with derivatives, people got greedy, but it was legal and the risk was right there for anyone who was looking.
The government shouldn't have bailed them out... They all deserved it, that's capitalism.
As for donations for political favoritism, that't basically how democracy works these days.

This thread is about business ethics or scams. They're not the same thing.

While I could argue the point it's a scam, which I believe it is, even at the simplest level the current banking system is very much ethically bankrupt.

Aug 16, 2018 9:57:53 GMT iNCY said:

KJ , Kilgore , Still not a scam though...
The Sub prime lending saga was crap, but nobody was really scammed

The banks worked with the credit rating agencies to literally buy debt that was F-rated, and then sold them back at A-rated prices. This was not incorrectly overestimating a market. These were CDOs that banks would normally steer clear of, but they bought into them knowing that the rating would be hiked up for guaranteed return. One of the emails collected in the aftermath of the collapse had one of the culprits literally writing, "Let's hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of cards falters." This is a single example of mass collusion that was a huge part of their business model back then, and looks to once again be taking place. It's fraud. If I bought a shitty CDO, and then you hiked it up to a good rating, and then we shared profits after I sold it back, we'd be in fucking jail.

Aug 16, 2018 22:01:49 GMT KJ said:

Aug 16, 2018 9:57:53 GMT iNCY said:

KJ , Kilgore , Still not a scam though...
The Sub prime lending saga was crap, but nobody was really scammed, in a country where you are trusted to own a gun surely you're not claiming not to be responsible enough to read a loan application.
Same deal with derivatives, people got greedy, but it was legal and the risk was right there for anyone who was looking.
The government shouldn't have bailed them out... They all deserved it, that's capitalism.
As for donations for political favoritism, that't basically how democracy works these days.

This thread is about business ethics or scams. They're not the same thing.

While I could argue the point it's a scam, which I believe it is, even at the simplest level the current banking system is very much ethically bankrupt.

Scam implies illegality, which banks aren't really guilty of, i mean everything is in the fine print. 
I just don't see the banks as more unethical than the vast majority of industries and companies that screw the little guys, but we seem to want to believe that banks should be noble and ethical, they work for shareholders not customers. 
Is it unethical, yes absolutely but again, that's a capitalist democracy, your dollars matter more than your vote in deciding how you want the world to look. . And most of us are hypocrites. 

Aug 17, 2018 0:17:53 GMT Kilgore said:

Aug 16, 2018 9:57:53 GMT iNCY said:

KJ , Kilgore , Still not a scam though...
The Sub prime lending saga was crap, but nobody was really scammed

The banks worked with the credit rating agencies to literally buy debt that was F-rated, and then sold them back at A-rated prices. This was not incorrectly overestimating a market. These were CDOs that banks would normally steer clear of, but they bought into them knowing that the rating would be hiked up for guaranteed return. One of the emails collected in the aftermath of the collapse had one of the culprits literally writing, "Let's hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of cards falters." This is a single example of mass collusion that was a huge part of their business model back then, and looks to once again be taking place. It's fraud. If I bought a shitty CDO, and then you hiked it up to a good rating, and then we shared profits after I sold it back, we'd be in fucking jail.

No they didnt, the rating agencies gave good gradings to get more business. The whole system is shitty and broken, but there's a word for that... Capitalism. 
So in the land of capitalism everything is for sale, which sucks but less than having to dig in a field for 14hrs a day to eat, so I am realist enough to take the good with the bad. 

I know you love the opportunity to opine about how the U.S. is terrible, but you're rationale of "you own guns so read the fine print" doesn't jive with me.

Banks have shown consistently they target poor people with more fines, fees and predatory tactics. The expectation everyone is going to understand the legalese of a bank - or know what to ask (you don't know what you don't know) - and that banks have acted with zero fiduciary responsibility is unethical at best, a scam at worst.

And by the way - banks have been caught doing illegal actions multiple times over the last decade as well.

Aug 17, 2018 9:00:55 GMT iNCY said:

Aug 17, 2018 0:17:53 GMT Kilgore said:

The banks worked with the credit rating agencies to literally buy debt that was F-rated, and then sold them back at A-rated prices. This was not incorrectly overestimating a market. These were CDOs that banks would normally steer clear of, but they bought into them knowing that the rating would be hiked up for guaranteed return. One of the emails collected in the aftermath of the collapse had one of the culprits literally writing, "Let's hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of cards falters." This is a single example of mass collusion that was a huge part of their business model back then, and looks to once again be taking place. It's fraud. If I bought a shitty CDO, and then you hiked it up to a good rating, and then we shared profits after I sold it back, we'd be in fucking jail.

No they didnt, the rating agencies gave good gradings to get more business. The whole system is shitty and broken, but there's a word for that... Capitalism. 
So in the land of capitalism everything is for sale, which sucks but less than having to dig in a field for 14hrs a day to eat, so I am realist enough to take the good with the bad. 

What your describing is actually called Crony Capitalism, a distinction made to differentiate "real" capitalism from what we are talking about, if you want to reduce this to semantics. Whether there's an actual difference between the two is up for debate, and not one that I have any interest being in since I don't really give a shit. Regardless, you said nothing illegal happens with the banks, I pointed out an illegal act that has happened, and you are now moving the goalposts with "Hey, that's capitalism!" First of all, it's not. It's literally fraud. If somebody gets caught doing this on a smaller scale, they go to prison. Second, and more importantly, your moving the goalposts is the sign of somebody not at all interested in discussion, just trying to "win," and I don't post on a goddamned wrestling message board to try and win arguments about the fucking crime against humanity that is American capitalism.

Aug 17, 2018 16:05:50 GMT KJ said:

I know you love the opportunity to opine about how the U.S. is terrible, but you're rationale of "you own guns so read the fine print" doesn't jive with me.

Banks have shown consistently they target poor people with more fines, fees and predatory tactics. The expectation everyone is going to understand the legalese of a bank - or know what to ask (you don't know what you don't know) - and that banks have acted with zero fiduciary responsibility is unethical at best, a scam at worst.

And by the way - banks have been caught doing illegal actions multiple times over the last decade as well.

Aug 17, 2018 23:33:48 GMT Kilgore said:

Aug 17, 2018 9:00:55 GMT iNCY said:

No they didnt, the rating agencies gave good gradings to get more business. The whole system is shitty and broken, but there's a word for that... Capitalism. 
So in the land of capitalism everything is for sale, which sucks but less than having to dig in a field for 14hrs a day to eat, so I am realist enough to take the good with the bad. 

What your describing is actually called Crony Capitalism, a distinction made to differentiate "real" capitalism from what we are talking about, if you want to reduce this to semantics. Whether there's an actual difference between the two is up for debate, and not one that I have any interest being in since I don't really give a shit. Regardless, you said nothing illegal happens with the banks, I pointed out an illegal act that has happened, and you are now moving the goalposts with "Hey, that's capitalism!" First of all, it's not. It's literally fraud. If somebody gets caught doing this on a smaller scale, they go to prison. Second, and more importantly, your moving the goalposts is the sign of somebody not at all interested in discussion, just trying to "win," and I don't post on a goddamned wrestling message board to try and win arguments about the fucking crime against humanity that is American capitalism.

I actually love the US KJ, I just find hypocrisy really weird and it is something the USA does pretty well. I take your point about profiting off the illiterate, but again how many business models profit off human stupidity? McDonald's relies on peoples weak will and stupidity for their profitability and they actually kill people. I understand that banks are the whipping boys but I doubt they have anywhere near the the same levels of physical harm attributed to them that say MCDonalds, Coca-Cola or Budweiser have.

Oh wow Kilgore, you sound like one of those pro-socialism people who state that it's a beautiful idea that has never been implemented correctly. All capitalism is what you refer to as crony-capitalism. Every election takes vast sums of money to get elected the world over and all of that money comes with strings attached. Nobody really donates to political parties without an agenda, keeping the other part out is a form of policy control as much as hinging your money on certain criteria. Now if you are an oil company and you donate 30 million to a campaign, you son't need to put your case forward, it's obvious. This is the way life in the West works, capitalism is flawed and unfit but as Winston Churchill said, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the alternatives.... Or something to that effect.