WWE is the undisputed global leader in sports entertainment, and a consistent to very good mainstream product for families, casual and younger fans. Growing from a wrestling organization foremost into a world-wide entertainment brand. Outside of the US, it's global reach has never been better, it's in more countries and more homes than ever before due to it's Network and continues to tour internationally unlike in any other era of the company.

It also presents it's own alternative in NXT, and continues to expand it's branches with a UK brand, the Mae Young and Cruiserweight Classics and working relationships with independent promotions. It's Development is second-to-known, there has never been a greater focus.

While NJPW has emerged not as a rival, or to do battle, ye, but as true alternative to the WWE - differing itself in presentation, booking, format and most importantly, the in-ring product. It's growing popularity has come in largely just a few years, partly due to the rise of the Bullet Club franchise and it's deliberate journey to the west, and potentially due to the exposure former NJPW alumni, Balor, Nakamura, etc have achieved in the WWE.

Together with ROH, NJPW recently sold out MSG - who themselves have survived to become potentially the number 2 company on US soil.

The climate for independent wrestlers has never been better, as proven by the increasingly wealthy Young Bucks. Who I don't need to remind anyone, with Cody, sold out 10,000 tickets to their own independent show. The first time in over 18 years, anyone other than the WWE has put 10,000 in an arena in the US.

For all the acclaim the Monday Night Wars & WWF's Attitude era receive online and in popular culture, notably for creative reasons, and/or potentially exaggerated in nostalgia. I have to ask the question.. is the current landscape of professional wrestling today, actually better than it was during the late 1990s. Or stronger? More sustainable? And are we on the verge of another golden era?

I don't think Professional Wrestling fans have ever had it better. The dawn of the internet age has made Pro Wrestling readily available and now it's much easier to keep up with WWE, ROH, NJPW, Impact, AJPW, Evolve etc. The rise of popular fan series like the Old School Wrestling podcast and Botchmania has also done it's part in keeping disenfranchised fans involved, as well as all the Austin, Jericho, JR, Pritchard, Bischoff, Cornette podcasts.

I certainly think they can sustain this type of success better than the Monday Night War. The problem with that era is that both WWF & WCW fell into the habit of trying to top themselves, which led to some ridiculous creative that killed WCW and harmed WWF's business. I can't imagine WWE's creative being much worse than what it is now and the same could be said of ROH where they've been relying heavily on their affiliation with NJPW to draw crowds. Their home-grown talent pool is actually pretty poor and has been for years.If they can get their act together, it should only make the company stronger and hopefully cause Sinclair Broadcasting to put more funds into their production.

It’s just so odd the prevalence and availability of Pro Wrestling that it still remains such a niche underground product. Only the very top Indy guys and WWE make livable money, mostly because of the attitude of people being marks for themselves, the amount of people that tell me they want to be a Pro Wrestler for a living..then do shows for free is astounding..and that obviously continues all the way up to top guys working for less than they should..I think Magnus in TNA ranted about it.

It just seems to be such an insular hobby, wrestling events are always filled with people, FB filled with wrestling fans..yet I’ve seen one person in a wrestling shirt in public and very rarely brought up by anyone. Just seems like a whale driven business more than ever now.



You’d think WWE is mainstream, but maybe 1 in 100 even knows what I’m talking about. Trust me, WWE never calling it wrestling has an effect.

I have this convo all the time.

Customer: So you’re a wrestler? Like MMA?
Me: No. Like Pro Wrestling?
Customer: So Olympic stuff?
Me: kinda like WWE? WWF?
Customer: 🤷🏻‍♀️ Are you going to go Pro?
Me: 🤯

Despite trying to explain to regular patrons who’ve been coming in for years, they still don’t understand I don’t do MMA. One guy told me to step it up because I kept losing( I mostly jobbed 😂) another wondered why he never saw me with any bruises..like I would just casually do an MMA fight Sat and come into work Sunday 🤦🏻‍♀️.


Porn and Anime seem more widely discussed and in the public sphere than wrestling is these days, yet on the surface business seems to be up everywhere.

Aug 17, 2018 2:44:05 GMT Big Pete said:

I don't think Professional Wrestling fans have ever had it better.

I think this is a yes and no, depending on the fan. For someone like me, I have the ability to access an unwatchable amount of old wrestling (which is where my interests lie far more than the current scene) and listen to bookers/managers/wrestlers give all the behind the scenes details of those times. This is clearly a far superior scenario as a fan than it would be for me in the same position at any other point in time.

But what about a fan who lived in a hotbed of wrestling in the territory days? Someone who was able to go every week/month (depending on where they were) to their local arena (be it the Omni, MSG, Mid-South Coliseum) and the nearby ones to watch their local heroes in the flesh. To be drawn into the characters and stories in an era where, even though people knew it wasn't real, they allowed (with help from the presentation and kayfabe) themselves to believe. To feel the excitement of the big matches. To marvel at the special attractions being brought in. For them, I can't imagine the incredible scope of footage available to be watched in the click of a button even comes close to replicating that.

For my own personal fandom, yes this time is the best. There's so many promotions out there you can check out without feeling the need to make such a commitment many wise.

Aug 29, 2018 18:03:53 GMT System said:

I have this convo all the time.

Customer: So you’re a wrestler? Like MMA?
Me: No. Like Pro Wrestling?
Customer: So Olympic stuff?
Me: kinda like WWE? WWF?
Customer: 🤷🏻‍♀️ Are you going to go Pro?
Me: 🤯

Funnily, I have different conversations. I'm always of the allusion people don't know anything about pro. wrestling, nor care more importantly, and if they do, they have think it's rubbish. Yet, when it comes up - take the hype around the WWESSD for example - people suddenly have some knowledge of today's WWE. Whether it's the exposure it gets on Fox8 ( Tues & Wed Nights, Sat & Sun Mornings ) or not has a big part of it.

I wouldn't suggest it exists in the shadows, there a certain levels of fandom, and for a lot of people, WWE is just a TV show. That's it.

And when it comes to merch being worn in public - it's because all wrestling merch is awful, and expensive considering. You can understand why people love BC shirts, it's the only thing that doesn't look ridiculous on a grown adult.

Hear a lot of people talking about how great wrestling is right now and can't help but wonder what they see in most federations. At best I see a lot of great matches, but very few good stories. Sure Being the Elite is great but outside of that not much going on really. WWE is a lot better, but the best of NXT and WWE were tearing down the house 10 years back in far better matches. It seems nothing now has any real emotion to it. Also is wrestling really better now than 10 years ago? That was the era of the Summer of Punk, Unified, The birth of SHIMMER, King of Trios, BDK and the Dark Cibernetico, Best of the Best, Tournament of Death, The Battle for Los Angeles and so much more. Seems now we traded PWG, RoH, CZW and CHIKARA for NJPW and Being the Elite. And I know all those feds are still here, but the moment has past for them and crowds and hype are way down. But point is there used to be big shows every week, now NJPW is all that people really follow, and even there it is most Kenny and the Bullet Club. Kenny and Okada's series is good, compare Kenny title run so far to Punk's run in RoH. People just are not behind Kenny like they were Punk.

The thing I think that is lacking the most now is there is no path for unknown guys to break out easily. Ten years ago they scouted everywhere for the next guys and there was a flood of new talent all the time. Now it seems the same old talent that was there, is still on top here with only a handful of guys breaking out.

Then again, maybe I am just getting old and remembering the good old days.

Aug 31, 2018 8:00:08 GMT c said:

The thing I think that is lacking the most now is there is no path for unknown guys to break out easily. Ten years ago they scouted everywhere for the next guys and there was a flood of new talent all the time. Now it seems the same old talent that was there, is still on top here with only a handful of guys breaking out.

NXT, and the Performance Center. Continuous WWE try-outs, working relationships with independents, international branches of the NXT brand. And that's not even mentioning the impact independent wrestling is having, nor the opportunities available currently.

The WWE Championship is currently being contended over by two true WWE outsiders, while the Universal Belt is on a man with just 6 years on the main roster, his current main rival less than 4.

Rollins, Ambrose both made their WWE main roster debuts less than 6 years ago. Nakamura, Balor, Owens, etc all within the last few years. There's a tone of new talent in the WWE that NXT has either created, or most of the time enhanced or advanced like no-one ever before. Consider the women's revolution - most of either division's talent is new.

A big part of this problem is, we see everything and everyone on the independents before they make it to the WWE, that nothing feels new. Then most talent coming through will have a number of years exposure to the 'WWE Universe' in NXT before even making it to the main roster.

And maybe subconsciously so many of us, go back to the Attitude era as a comparison, considering it was such a night & day, black and white switch from old to new in what was really a significantly short time frame, and similarly during the 'Ruthless Aggression' era. For any superstar on the main roster today with a 10 year, plus tenure, they've had longer careers on the main roster than these 2 very distinct eras of the company existed. 

It's a fascinating time. For fans, it's never been more accessible, but that also aligns with it being incredibly niche with a shrinking fan base.

I hear people compare the indy scene today vs. the territories, but I just don't think that's true. The biggest difference between the prevalence of indies vs. the territory days, is there is an incredible amount of overlap in fandom as opposed to the pockets of large regional audiences the industry used to have.

The WWE is really to blame for the constriction of the market size. Not just because they're the big guy, but because they've essentially given up on putting in effort as the big guy. They'd rather be a brand than a quality product.

Aug 31, 2018 18:59:45 GMT KJ said:

It's a fascinating time. For fans, it's never been more accessible, but that also aligns with it being incredibly niche with a shrinking fan base.

I hear people compare the indy scene today vs. the territories, but I just don't think that's true. The biggest difference between the prevalence of indies vs. the territory days, is there is an incredible amount of overlap in fandom as opposed to the pockets of large regional audiences the industry used to have. 

I wonder if 'All In' becomes the genesis for something bigger.

Does the 'All In' brand evolve into co-promoting with independent organizations. On the surface an independent show, at the very least, appears to be an 'All In' live event. Additionally, there is more value in the NWA Title on Cody Rhodes, touring, defending and promoting the belt, aligned with The Elite than on Nick Aldis and the current NWA.

Aug 31, 2018 23:08:56 GMT NATH45 said:

Aug 31, 2018 18:59:45 GMT KJ said:

It's a fascinating time. For fans, it's never been more accessible, but that also aligns with it being incredibly niche with a shrinking fan base.

I hear people compare the indy scene today vs. the territories, but I just don't think that's true. The biggest difference between the prevalence of indies vs. the territory days, is there is an incredible amount of overlap in fandom as opposed to the pockets of large regional audiences the industry used to have. 

I wonder if 'All In' becomes the genesis for something bigger.

Does the 'All In' brand evolve into co-promoting with independent organizations. On the surface an independent show, at the very least, appears to be an 'All In' live event. Additionally, there is more value in the NWA Title on Cody Rhodes, touring, defending and promoting the belt, aligned with The Elite than on Nick Aldis and the current NWA.

I’m not sure. Right now, it’s a destination event that doesn’t seem to be drawing in anyone new. It seems like it’s the same Indy crowd that already exists.

Hope I’m wrong!

Aug 29, 2018 20:12:20 GMT Strobe said:

Aug 17, 2018 2:44:05 GMT Big Pete said:

I don't think Professional Wrestling fans have ever had it better.

I think this is a yes and no, depending on the fan. For someone like me, I have the ability to access an unwatchable amount of old wrestling (which is where my interests lie far more than the current scene) and listen to bookers/managers/wrestlers give all the behind the scenes details of those times. This is clearly a far superior scenario as a fan than it would be for me in the same position at any other point in time.

But what about a fan who lived in a hotbed of wrestling in the territory days? Someone who was able to go every week/month (depending on where they were) to their local arena (be it the Omni, MSG, Mid-South Coliseum) and the nearby ones to watch their local heroes in the flesh. To be drawn into the characters and stories in an era where, even though people knew it wasn't real, they allowed (with help from the presentation and kayfabe) themselves to believe. To feel the excitement of the big matches. To marvel at the special attractions being brought in. For them, I can't imagine the incredible scope of footage available to be watched in the click of a button even comes close to replicating that.

I agree that the business itself and the product were better in the past, but from a fan's perspective, it's a different beast altogether. If we use that territory days as an example, I can't imagine more than a dozen fans would have been dedicated enough to attend every show. I couldn't imagine those same fans getting anywhere near enough out of it. Realistically, they most likely followed the TVs on a week-to-week basis and went to half-a-dozen shows, had a good time but most likely would have missed out on some all-time great Pro Wrestling performances. The tease of knowing a fantastic star-making performance went down and you weren't there to see it would have been extremely frustrating. Let alone the tease of other territories and having to hunt down some tape-trading syndicate to even get a glimpse of these so-called great performers. 

While the attraction of these live events is no longer there, fans can still relive the TVs. They're not going anywhere and they can finally fill whatever gaps there were in their viewing and share their thoughts and impressions with others. It was already relatively easy to find with YouTube but with the advent of the WWE Network and previously unreleased footage being made available, even the whims of those fans are being catered to.

Seems now we traded PWG, RoH, CZW and CHIKARA for NJPW and Being the Elite

PWG and ROH are doing some of their best ever business. PWG is still one of the hottest promotions and has superseded ROH as the super-independent. Meanwhile ROH went from a struggling promotion to the second biggest in the States thanks mostly to their affiliation with New Japan. Both CZW and CHIKARA were extremely niche products to begin with, so whatever turbulence they're experiencing is just par for the course.

Not only is NJPW doing better, but wrestling in Japan has mostly improved across the board with the exception of NOAH. The UK wrestling scene is bustling, Lucha Underground is a much better version of Wrestling Society X and NXT has been putting on some of the best PPVs in decades.

That isn't to say this current era blows away everything that came before it, but you're not giving it anywhere near it's dues.