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Post by Shootist on Oct 12, 2017 15:42:00 GMT
Because I just have to get WCW 1992 out of my system:
1. Brian Pillman vs. Jushin Liger- Superbrawl II 2. Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin and Larry Zbyszko- Superbrawl II 3. Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer- Falls Count Anywhere, Clash 28 4. *Arn Anderson vs. Nikita Koloff- WCW TV 4/6/92 5. Ron Simmons vs. Barbarian- Halloween Havoc 6. The Steiners vs. Steve Williams and Terry Gordy- Beach Blast 7. Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat- Iron Man Match, Beach Blast 8. Sting vs. Vader- Starrcade
*I just couldn't find a place for Arn Anderson and Bobby Eaton since they were facing the Steiners on almost every TV taping.
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Post by Kilgore on Oct 12, 2017 21:35:00 GMT
The hardest one so far.
WWF
The New Foundation vs. Orient Express (Royal Rumble) Fun opener.
Razor Ramon vs. El Matador (Wrestling Challenge: 10/13/92) 1992 is rough. A lot of people come in late in the year in Survivor Series matches, where half the fucking roster is being used. So, I'm using squash matches where the jobber is a former name.
LOD vs. Money Inc. (SummerSlam) It was decent.
The Undertaker vs. Jake Roberts (Wrestlemania 8) Squash match #2.
Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith (Saturday Night's Main Event: 11/14/92) Both of these dudes had their best match of 1992 against Bret Hart. Unfortunately for them, it was Bret's 3rd best match. This was good to very good.
Yokozuna vs. Virgil (Survivor Series) Squash match #3.
Bret Hart vs. Rowdy Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania 8) One of my favorite matches ever.
Ric Flair vs. Macho Man Randy Savage (Wrestlemania 8) Another one of favorite matches ever.
Hulk Hogan vs. Sid (Wrestlemania 8) I'm going against my own rule of only using Sid in squash matches, but I already have three, and there's nothing else I can do with the Hulkster, so this shit show makes it, with the Papa Shango and Ultimate Warrior Cameo.
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Post by Strobe on Oct 12, 2017 22:50:44 GMT
WCW 1992
Let's not go crazy and use 10 guys in the same match, despite how incredible War Games is. I feel like there are three musts for this card.
Sting vs. Big Van Vader - Starrcade Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat - Beach Blast Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman - SuperBrawl II
- Some prefer GAB, but it has to be Starrcade for me, and Sting beating the big heel is how the show should end. Rude/Steamer is a candidate for best WCW match and Liger/Pillman, while a touch overrated, is still great and influential.
Now we get into some possible combinations for the rest of the card.
There are two options for the Steiners, either their Clash XIX Williams/Gordy bout (superior to Beach Blast) or the Fujinami/Iizuka WrestleWar tag. If you go for the latter, then the 10/3 Saturday Night match against Windham/Rhodes is an option for MVC or what was supposed to be the rematch at Halloween Havoc with Austin replacing Gordy.
But neither of those seem like good choices for Windham/Rhodes, who should really be in one of their Dangerous Alliance matches. Austin/Zbyszko SuperBrawl is the obvious choice for match quality, but it isn't easy to get guys like Arn on the card via this route, as we have taken away most of the people he worked with that year. The Windham/Rhodes/Simmons vs. Arn/Eaton/Zbyszko Clash XVIII six-man is good stuff in its own right and gets Arn and Eaton on the show, where it feels like they should be. But this would leave Austin out in the cold.
Not having that six-man would also free up Simmons for Cactus SuperBrawl II or Barbarian Havoc. The latter allows us to get the fun hardcore match with Hammer for Cactus, although Simmons/Cactus feels the superior option for card efficiency.
So it feels like another certainty is:
Steiner Brothers vs. Steve Williams/Terry Gordy - Clash of the Champions XIX
and there is a choice between the following combos:
Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko - SuperBrawl II Ron Simmons vs. Cactus Jack - SuperBrawl II
OR
Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko - SuperBrawl II
Ron Simmons vs. The Barbarian - Halloween Havoc Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer - Clash of the Champions XVIII
OR
Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ron Simmons vs. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zybszko - Clash of the Champions XVIII Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer - Clash of the Champions XVIII
Thinking about it now, the Beach Blast Windham/Rhodes/Koloff vs. Arn/Eaton/Austin could be a solution to getting names we want on the card, but we lose Larry Z and memory is telling me it isn't as good as the DA matches being considered above. Could just chuck the Havoc opener Arn/Eaton/Hayes vs. Douglas/Zenk/Gunn in there to get AA and Beautiful Bobby on the card.
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Post by Baker on Oct 13, 2017 0:49:31 GMT
I haven't figured out how to quote two people in a post yet so I'll just tag folks rather than making back to back posts. StrobeI also like including Sting/Vader Starrcade over Sting/Vader GAB to get that big show closing babyface win. I liked one big Steiners/MVC match and disliked the other. Can never remember which is which though. Option 2 or Option 3 works for me. With option 2 (aka: Option Icon) you get a much-needed taste of the DA, a Simmons title defense (important!), and the miracle Cactus/Van Hammer match which I liked long before discovering the greatness of the Orson Welles of Arm Wrestling. The big problem here is Arn being the odd man out. It's worth noting that there is a 37 minute(!) Arn vs. Big Josh match out there that I've seen get both love and hate. But if we do go this route I'm still partial to Shootist choice of Arn/Nikita because Nikita is much more important than Lumberjack Doink to 1992 WCW. Option 3 is the maximum efficiency all killer, no filler approach. Gun to my head I'd choose Option 3. KilgoreI'll try an alternate take at '92 WWF later. Maybe going with Bulldog/Bret instead of Bret/Piper and working from there. I imagine the awesome Michaels/Martel "no face punches" match and the tear-inducing Mountie/Piper "shock proof shirt" match find their way onto my card. Speaking of The Mountie, the Mountie mark in me would add Mountie vs. Tatanka from Superstars 9/19 to your show. Mountie was featured pretty heavily throughout the year and I think it's worthwhile to chronicle Tatanka's rise as he would be a pretty important midcarder over the next 2 years. Too bad we never got a Perfect/Razor singles match in late '92. That would have been ideal for this card.
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Post by 🤯 on Oct 13, 2017 1:25:40 GMT
I feel like getting this far back into the early 90s for the WWF, I wonder if Prime Time can be leverage as a cheat of sorts (so long as the matches highlighted took place in 1992)? Wasn't Prime Time full of like MSG house show matches and stuff?
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Post by Shootist on Oct 13, 2017 2:58:36 GMT
I feel like getting this far back into the early 90s for the WWF, I wonder if Prime Time can be leverage as a cheat of sorts (so long as the matches highlighted took place in 1992)? Wasn't Prime Time full of like MSG house show matches and stuff? Early on yes but in the 90's it became more of a rehash of Superstars, Challenge and All American.
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Post by Baker on Oct 20, 2017 19:59:37 GMT
The completest in me decided it was finally time to officially tackle this year.
1992 WWF
*Had some trouble with this one. Hence why it took me so long. Also didn't want to just boringly rehash Kilgore's card.
Coliseum Home Video Exclusive: New Foundation vs. Orient Express (Royal Rumble 1/19)
1. Natural Disasters vs. Beverly Brothers (Summerslam 8/31- Tag Title Match) 2. Yokozuna vs. Virgil (Survivor Series 11/25) 3. Razor Ramon vs. Tito Santana (Wrestling Challenge 11/1) 4. Shawn Michaels vs. Rick Martel (Summerslam 8/31- No Punches To The Face Match) 5. Legion of Doom vs. Money Inc. (Summerslam 8/31) 6. Roddy Piper vs. Mountie (Royal Rumble 1/19- IC Title Match) 7. Undertaker vs. Jake Roberts (Wrestlemania 4/5) 8. British Bulldog vs. Bret Hart (Summerslam 8/31- IC Title Match) 9. Hulk Hogan vs. Sid Justice featuring Ultimate Warrior & Papa Shango (Wrestlemania 4/5) 10. Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair (Wrestlemania 4/5- WWF Championship Match)
Chose Disasters/Beverlys over New Foundation/Orient Express for the main show because the Disasters were more important to 1992 WWF than the New Foundation or Orient Express. Also wanted to get the tag titles on the show and remember Disasters/Beverlys being surprisingly alright.
Went with Bulldog/Bret over Piper/Bret because I think the Bulldog match is more important in the long run as an early 'workrate' match. Although, oddly enough, I think the Piper match might have been more important at the time due to the signifcance of Bret beating a bonafide company legend who (allegedly) had never been pinned on WWF television.
HBK/Model is another match I really wanted to get on the card. Twas a hoot. Heel vs. Heel is the hardest kind of match to pull off. I've liked maybe five true heel vs. heel matches in my life (stuff like Angle/Benoit or heel vs. heel in workrate promotions don't count) and this is one of them.
I do like the HBK/Bulldog match that made Kilgore's card. It had a story that actually played into the finish.
Gave Piper his big IC Title win over my man Da Mountie as a consolation prize for losing out on the Bret match. That damn "shock proof shirt" rematch from Saturday Night's Main Event could also work here.
Went with Flair/Savage over the Hogan/Sid debacle as the main event because it ends the show on a higher note than a bad match with a botched finish. The Hulkster will just have to deal with it, brother.
*Will have 1992 WCW up later today.
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Post by Baker on Oct 20, 2017 22:00:02 GMT
1992 WCW
Figured it was time to make this one official as well. This is the first (and probably last) MashUp I've done where I wasn't watching in real time. 7 of these are pretty self explanatory and would appear on practically every attempt at this. However, meeting my 10 match quota proved to be a fun challenge. 1992 WCW, great as it was (I may not have been watching in real time but I have seen most of the big matches and Dangerous Alliance stuff), was also very top heavy. Not a lot of fun low midcard type Baker Guys. Or....maybe there were and I just don't know it because I haven't seen it? Did the Super Invader secretly rule? Or was that the Young Pistols? Was Big Josh actually a brilliant gimmick? Did Tommy Rich discover the Fountain of Youth when he became "Thomas?" Probably not. But I suppose anything is possible. Anyway....
1. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Michael Hayes vs. Shane Douglas/Tom Zenk/Johnny Gunn (Halloween Havoc 10/25) 2. Vinnie Vegas vs. Marcus Alexander Bagwell (Saturday Night 10/31) 3. Brian Pillman vs. Jushin Liger (SuperBrawl 2/29- Light Heavyweight Title Match) 4. Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer (Clash of the Champions 1/21- Falls Count Anywhere) 5. Nikita Koloff vs. Jake Roberts (Worldwide 9/19) 6. Ron Simmons vs. Barbarian (Halloween Havoc 10/25-WCW Championship Match) 7. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko (SuperBrawl 2/29) 8. Miracle Violence Connection vs. Steiner Brothers (Beach Blash 6/20- Tag Title Match) 9. Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat (Beach Blash 6/20- US Title Ironman Match) 10. Sting vs. Vader (Starrcade 12/28- King of Cable Tournament Final)
I do my best to avoid post-1987 Michael Hayes but Arn & Beautiful Bobby needed to be on the show. Their tag run seemed to consist entirely of squash wins, matches against the Steiners, and Dangerous Alliance multi-man tags. So it was either this or throwaway singles matches on tv against the likes of Tom Zenk. But this does have a silver lining even if we must suffer through Michael Hayes. The always-charming Philly crowd loved the old school heels and booed the bland pretty boys out of the building. Speaking of those bland pretty boys....
One of my problems with this period, and early 90s WCW in general, is that they have five wrestlers who are practically identical in Douglas, Zenk, Gunn, Brad Armstrong & Marcus Bagwell. Same styles. Same basic moves. Same size. Same gimmick, or lack thereof. Same level of push for the most part. Just same everything. Before there was the generic OVW guy there was the generic WCW babyface. Then you have Erik Watts, who is a lesser version of that quintet. Oh, but it gets worse. Because you also also have Brian Pillman, who is similar in most ways, but also like three steps ahead of all those guys, rendering the whole lot of them obsolete. Rant over.
This was easily the toughest one yet when it came to meeting my 10 match quota. I'm still not thrilled about Vegas/Bagwell on the main show. Seems far more suited to a pre-show Saturday Night. It doesn't even have any kind of hook. It's just a throwaway midcarder vs. midcarder tv match. I was originally going with a Muta/Brad Saturday Night match.....until I found out it went 28 minutes. Why, oh why did the Texicans vs. DDP & Vinnie Vegas BATTLE OF THE BULLIES~! have to happen a week into '93 instead of late 1992? That would have been the perfect filler 10th match. Oh well.
This show is filled with old school heroes but you get a taste of the future to come in Liger/Pillman and Cactus/Hammer as early examples of the Cruiserweight & ECW styles which would come to dominate US wrestling in a few years. Putting them back to back was intentional.
Discovering a Nikita vs. Jake match existed made me happy. That has to be just about the greatest filler/throwaway match ever on paper. Jake's 1992 WCW run is another thing I always forget about. Probably because I wasn't watching in real time. Come to think of it, I often forget about this Nikita run too. But still! Jake vs. Nikita!
Simmons/Barbarian is in the midcard because while I've grown to appreciate the Barbarian over the past five years, I still have a hard time buying him as any sort of serious main event threat. Went with Beach Blash over Clash for Steiners/MVC because BB seems to get higher ratings. I may well be wrong. Remember liking one and disliking the other but can't remember which is which.
*So now I've completed....
1991-2003 WWF 1989 NWA & 1992-1996 WCW 1995-1999 ECW 2002 ROH
Perhaps this is finally the end of the trail....
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