HBO about to released a documentary on Michael Jackson's nevermind ranch. Now that we have seen many XX scandal from priest to r kelly what do you think actually happened at the neverland valley ranch?

I thought this was going to be happy OT thread about childlike wonder and growing up ..I can dream 😂.

I’d be very curious to see the public reaction to the allegations if this happened in the present day, especially considering that he settled the first case.

I believed he was innocent at the time, now I’m less naive it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he was guilty.

Guy was a paedophile, mentally disturbed, but if he wasn't a beloved musician he would have died in the court of public opinion. I remember on this previous forum people launching passionate one eyed defence simply because they loved him

Jan 20, 2019 1:18:20 GMT iNCY said:

Guy was a paedophile, mentally disturbed, but if he wasn't a beloved musician he would have died in the court of public opinion. I remember on this previous forum people launching passionate one eyed defence simply because they loved him

I'd hate to think what he did to poor Emmanuel Lewis.

Similarly to David Bowie, a couple of 15 years later and now it's just playfully part of his mystic.

Steven Tyler adopts a 14 year old sex slave and it's conventionally forgotten about. Jimmy Page kidnaps another 14 year old, but that's OK. R-Kelly, he's been pissing all over children since Dr. Dre was beating up women. But who cares?

Yet, Trump has one little affair with a consenting porn-star and it's all levels of outage.

 

I’ve always believed he was a disturbed individual and serial child abuser.

Literally banned his music from my wedding because of this (at the huge outrage of my now-sister in law).

Never doubted he did it, which is funny because all the accusations of recent memory I've been skeptical despite there being just as much evidence between the two.

It’s a stupid money grab from the people who want to make the documentary. They never came forward when he was under investigation, when they were desperately digging for any evidence or witnesses they could make up against him.

It’s obvious with how popular these documentaries are, that they want money.

Michael wasn’t of healthy mind, he was badly mistreated by his family (especially his father) and was looking for a new family to share his dream and happiness with. He never got a childhood because of his family, so he tried to live it out in Neverland with his children and friends.

His friends were young kids at the time, which comes across as very bad to the public, but this is a person who just wanted to relive those moments he lost.

His kids and many many many people who stayed at Neverland came out and said Michael NEVER did anything to them. The person who accused Michael and went to court - the mother was trying to accuse Michael because she wanted money to fund her life, her kid was very sick and Michael did everything to help the kid and Michael agreed to pay the money because he wanted the kid to get the proper medical treatment he needed.

He only cared about the health of the boy, he didn’t care what the mother accused him of, he didn’t care how it made him look ‘guilty’.

Michael was innoncent, and he still is. He can’t defend himself, he is long gone and they need to let him Rest In Peace instead of trying to make money off their bullshit stories.

Jan 21, 2019 12:24:39 GMT sandylea said:

It’s a stupid money grab from the people who want to make the documentary. They never came forward when he was under investigation, when they were desperately digging for any evidence or witnesses they could make up against him.

It’s obvious with how popular these documentaries are, that they want money.

Michael wasn’t of healthy mind, he was badly mistreated by his family (especially his father) and was looking for a new family to share his dream and happiness with. He never got a childhood because of his family, so he tried to live it out in Neverland with his children and friends.

His friends were young kids at the time, which comes across as very bad to the public, but this is a person who just wanted to relive those moments he lost.

His kids and many many many people who stayed at Neverland came out and said Michael NEVER did anything to them. The person who accused Michael and went to court - the mother was trying to accuse Michael because she wanted money to fund her life, her kid was very sick and Michael did everything to help the kid and Michael agreed to pay the money because he wanted the kid to get the proper medical treatment he needed.

He only cared about the health of the boy, he didn’t care what the mother accused him of, he didn’t care how it made him look ‘guilty’.

Michael was innoncent, and he still is. He can’t defend himself, he is long gone and they need to let him Rest In Peace instead of trying to make money off their bullshit stories.

Are you Mistress?
This was the delusional line she used to pedal.
How on earth can you determine his innocence?

I don't know anything about the details of this case, but what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Is there evidence against him besides accusations?

Jan 21, 2019 21:52:03 GMT Emperor said:

I don't know anything about the details of this case, but what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Is there evidence against him besides accusations?

In mid-1993, Evan Chandler accused American pop star Michael Jackson of sexually abusing his 13-year-old son, Jordan "Jordy" Chandler. In January 1994, Jackson reached a financial settlement for $23,000,000 with the Chandlers and in September a criminal investigation was closed.

(Wiki)

The 2005 case he was found not guilty on all 14 charges.

That’s what happened with the two legal proceedings that were against him.

iNCY

No I’m not.

I believe he was innocent in the sexual assault cases and in regards to being a pedophile. I also believe he had a lot of mental issues in regards to his family, his looks, and how the media portrayed him.

He did nothing wrong, but because of the way he acted people constantly insinuate he must be guilty.

Jan 22, 2019 1:42:36 GMT System said:

Jan 21, 2019 21:52:03 GMT Emperor said:

I don't know anything about the details of this case, but what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Is there evidence against him besides accusations?

In mid-1993, Evan Chandler accused American pop star Michael Jackson of sexually abusing his 13-year-old son, Jordan "Jordy" Chandler. In January 1994, Jackson reached a financial settlement for $23,000,000 with the Chandlers and in September a criminal investigation was closed.

That's a "no" then. Thanks.

Unfortunately pedophilia is such a sore topic that even an (possibly false) accusation is going to screw your reputation forever.

Call me naive or ignorant but I agree with sandylea 100%. I believe he was a child in his own mind and that's how he related to them. He'd been bullied and abused by adults and therefore only trusted kids. Yes, his behavior as a grown man made these allegations and his choices suspect but if he was truly guilty there would have been a lot more settlements and stories. What about his own three kids who said he was the best father ever?

If an ordinary grown man "only trusted kids" wanted to hang out with your 10 year old. It would be a swift hell no. But the man gets a pass and in allowed to enjoy, the company of children, suspect or not. It's still fucking weird, and someone should have had the foresight to see this, and not allow it and further enable this nut-job.

Anyone else watching?

Seen bits of it, anyone else would have been hung from a light pole for less.

So the local radio guys were making fun of everything about it and said he had a game to see who could get dressed the fastest. LOL there's only one reason that would be necessary. Kind of amazing really that some guys have had their whole careers tranished (Cosby, Roseanne) for stuff and others completely erased (Benoit) and yet no one will turn off Thriller or Billy Jean despite all the evidence.

Let's not forget though: the man went to court and was found not guilty by a jury of his peers, fame or not. We can roast him in the court of public appeals all we want. The man died square with the house again. If he'd been around today...the fact remains he was not convicted and was not a felon at the time of his death.

It's extremely difficult for me to watch Chris Benoit matches knowing what he did. It's difficult to watch Bill Cosby on any movie, show, etc. I used to be such a big Cosby fan. Fuck, I grew up on Fat Albert and watching him do those pudding commercials. I'd never even heard of any allegations against him until he asked people on Twitter to insult him basically. It's different listening to music for me. And I stand by what I said: Michael Jackson died a free man.

He wasn't convicted but he settled two cases financially.

slate.com/culture/2019/03/michael-jackson-leaving-neverland-sexual-abuse-allegations.html

Mar 4, 2019 21:10:59 GMT kbc said:

Let's not forget though: the man went to court and was found not guilty by a jury of his peers, fame or not. We can roast him in the court of public appeals all we want. The man died square with the house again. If he'd been around today...the fact remains he was not convicted and was not a felon at the time of his death.

It's extremely difficult for me to watch Chris Benoit matches knowing what he did. It's difficult to watch Bill Cosby on any movie, show, etc. I used to be such a big Cosby fan. Fuck, I grew up on Fat Albert and watching him do those pudding commercials. I'd never even heard of any allegations against him until he asked people on Twitter to insult him basically. It's different listening to music for me. And I stand by what I said: Michael Jackson died a free man.

He paid the kids to go away.. 

But why should the fact that someone was a monster affect how you enjoy their work. 
We don't need to feel guilty just because someone turned out to be a rapist or a paedo
You would be shocked at how few great historical figures would stand today by our standards. 
Presley was a paedo too... Still made good music. 
Polanski is a sicko... 

How many more were degenerates before the media placed ifs gaze upon them? 

Jan 22, 2019 7:06:11 GMT Emperor said:

Jan 22, 2019 1:42:36 GMT System said:

In mid-1993, Evan Chandler accused American pop star Michael Jackson of sexually abusing his 13-year-old son, Jordan "Jordy" Chandler. In January 1994, Jackson reached a financial settlement for $23,000,000 with the Chandlers and in September a criminal investigation was closed.

That's a "no" then. Thanks.

Unfortunately pedophilia is such a sore topic that even an (possibly false) accusation is going to screw your reputation forever.

This is gross, but true, because of Michael Jackson's skin condition (and whatever he did to try and combat it), he has a uniquely spotty dick. One of his accusers was asked to draw what the spots looked like and it matched what Jackson's dick actually looked like. Also all the accusers mentioned Jackson grooming them by sharing pornographic pictures and when Neverland got raided they found those pictures with Jackson and the fingerprints of children on them. Short of catching him in the act, there is proof of many of the actions surrounding the act. Jackson was proven to be sharing porn with small boys and one of them certainly had seen him naked. I'm fairly sure dude was as guilty as it gets and a serious piece of shit. It should be interesting to see if there's a snowball effect and more come forward now. 

The pop psychology so often used to deflect Jackson surrounding himself with boys of "He didn't have a childhood!" has been parrotted so many times I don't think people think enough about how fucking stupid this is. Like there are so many child stars, many of them fucked up too, yet none other than Jackson had this disfunction manifest itself into being a grown man hanging out in tree houses with pre-teens. This isn't a thing. Child stars don't bemoan growing up fast then have pillow fights with grade shoolers in their 30s and 40s. Either Jackson was uniquely fucked up, or he was just a pedophile that created a cover. I think the latter is probably true.

iNCY I'm not sure if it should or shouldn't be ok to enjoy a pedos other works. I just know I have trouble supporting or enjoying people's work once I find them to be a shitty person. I'm quick to do it too. For me personally, I turned a switch quick and stopped liking Robin Williams, dr. Seuss, and Philip Seymour Hoffman as soon as I found out bad stuff about them.

What did Robin Williams and Philip Seymour Hoffman do?

Robin Williams cheated on his wife and knowingly gave a waitress herpes.

To be fair, when it came to the waitress, they were just hanging.

Whether Jackson is innocent or not, the documentary was certainly interesting. I'm not sure if it brings any new information to the table, but for people who haven't been following the case, the graphical depictions of what happened is stomach churning and I haven't felt that weirded out about anything since I watched a Todd Solondz movie. There's definitely some evidence that is creepy like the pages and pages of fax messages Jacko would send. It's hard to know whether they're telling the truth that he'd just bombard their machine with these messages asking to speak to a five year old Wade repeatedly but it's creepy behaviour for sure.

I thought it was good that at the very least they covered the relationship the boys had with their parents. It would have been so odd for a documentary like this to focus solely on Michael when a lot of questions people had concerned the parents and why they would expose their kids to it. Wade's mother seemed like a typical showbusiness mum, so she wasn't cast in the best light. The other complainant seemed less compliant, if only because she didn't move her family half-way around the world to chase this fantasy.

I'm still prepared to presume Jackson innocent, but the relationships he did form with those children was irresponsible. I couldn't imagine what sort of ramifications that type of attention would have on somebody and I doubt you could have a normal childhood again. It's one thing to be granted a Make-A-Wish, another to seemingly form a genuine friendship with your idol.

Big Pete, what I find interesting is even if not new, it brings it to light in the new era. #metoo remember MJ?

Yeah, the faxes are just bizarre. So, is the notion of buying someone a fax machine so you can communicate with them more.

Mar 6, 2019 0:33:47 GMT RT said:

What Philip Seymour Hoffman do?

Heroin

Left his family to go out on a bender and die.

I thought the creepiest scene was Jimmy showing his box of jewelry that Jackson bought him including the "wedding ring." Dude was shaking. I've read people have doubts about Wade as a victim, which I can't say the same, but I somewhat understand the skepticism. With that being said, Jimmy 100% got molested by Jackson.