Following up from the Nathan Phillips thread, i've got this little spin-off thread.

At its very core, the question I have is why people start smoking in todays day and age. 30 years ago i'd understand why when we had a lot less information and cigarette packets weren't covered with photos of what those little sticks can do to you. 

It's still bizarrely popular, Cody Rhodes has recent brought out a line of cigars that are selling like hotcakes.

One little note and I know this stance might be unusual but I have no issue with pot, thc, cannabis or whatever you want to call it, it's been proven to inhibit cancer cell growth and in some cases even kill the cells. There's a reason medical marijuana is prescribed to those who need it and not medical tobacco.

I'm sure alcohol and other drugs will be brought up here and yes, there are risks with those, i'm not dense to them but those aren't what i'm concerning myself with trying to find some sort of answer for. Smoking is dangerous to your body outside and in. It does yellow your teeth and fingernails, it does stink to high hell and it takes forever to get the stench out of your clothes.

Anyway, that's all for now.

Honestly the fact that tobacco is legal and cannabis is not is absolutely mind-boggling.

Tobacco to me is one of the most vile substances on Earth. So many in my family smoke and I really think it is the real true gateway drug that many believe pot to be, the chemicals they put in cigarettes are there for no other reason than to make you addicted and to keep you buying more and I feel like there has to be a link to their addictions to other drugs like crack or whatever the fuck they are on. It's crazy how broke some in my family are but they will spend $7 a day on a pack of smokes it turns my stomach. The fact that this bullshit is legal and sold the way it is is and the way people get addicted to it and die from it is such a twisted and evil part of our society, but if I get pulled over coming home from the weed man's house this afternoon I'm most likely going to jail and having my face put on Facebook/name in the newspaper as some kind of scum bag criminal when the fact is I'm the hardest working motherfucker there is, it makes me sick to even think about it. Cigarettes and scratch off lotto tickets are nothing but parasitic ways to leech off of the weak minded. Fuck alcohol too.

If people want to smoke, then let them smoke.
Darwinism is a thing and I shed no tears for the self inflicted death of stupid people.

Here's my think though, in 10 years will we look at McDonalds and 7-11 CocaCola the same we look at British American Tobacco today?
Big corporations kind of suck.

To follow up with what Call said, we have graphic photos of affected limbs/organs on the cigarette packets..one of which is a picture of a dead guy. Also the anti-smoking commercials here are brutal, I remember always looking away when I was very young when they’d come on TV (at primetime). Guess they worked on me because I’ve never smoked 😂


(One of the newer ones but you get the idea)

In true Australian fashion the dead guy became a meme (old mate Bryan) instead of a cautionary tale

SPOILER: Click to show

My mother smokes, my now 16yo brother did smoke (despite always complaining about my mother smoking) and my only friend that I know for certain has never at least tried it was raised as a devout Mormon so he doesn’t drink coca-cola let alone smoke.

The CEO of my work took up smoking after his infant daughter had cancer (she’s ok now), I know he was probably under huge stress but you’d think seeing the effects of cancer on someone first hand would put you off it.

My experience it seems to be either age..in that it was the social norm when they were younger or social pressure. I was one of three staff members at my work that didn’t smoke..the third being an ex-smoker so we definitely felt like the odd ones out..especially when after work we would all sit and talk with everyone else smoking indoors.
That was when I lived in Tennant Creek,NT though and there’s pretty much nothing to do there.

South Park touched on this much more eloquently than I can, but it definitely seems more prevalent in working class areas where people just want to relax after work as they don’t have much else in the way of luxury etc in their recreation time.

Lastly..because they can. Everyone’s has some vice or habit they know isn’t beneficial to them in a certain way. I drink more soft drink (soda) than any person should..and have quit cold turkey a few times
(Straight to only water) but it’s something I enjoy even though it’s not healthy for me. The negative effects aren’t really visual before it’s too late also.

I’ve worked in clubs most of my adult life, selling alcohol (within RSA guidelines) and to a lesser extent cigarettes as well as watch people put thousands upon thousands through poker machines every night while they have children at home. I don’t lose any sleep over it because that’s their choice to engage in those activities and I obviously get paid off that. That’s their choice to do those things, just like it’s mine to drink too much Pepsi.


All the cigarette smokers I’ve met at least acknowledge it’s bad before them (and always pretend they are going to quit) so I find them less sufferable than some pot people who claim Marijuanna has no negative effects whatsoever and drive high.Smoke away just don’t bullshit me, bullshit the marks.

Oddly enough I seem to befriend a lot of low key stoners despite not having ever consumed drugs or alcohol. I think it maybe the odd hours I work plus I enjoy the abstract conversations they seemed to be into (while straight).

———

tl:dr people smoke because the short term pleasure outweighs the long term health effects to them, especially because they don’t seem super visible until it’s too late.

Both of my parents are were smokers. Mom still does but Dad quit a few years ago. She's overweight and isn't active so if she goes before my Dad I won't be shocked. Then again she was mostly a sahm so not having work stress will probably even them out.

They always discouraged my brother and me from starting. He still picked it up but he makes bad choices (he had two kids... idiot lol). Smoking cigs is just something I never got. Drinking I get. Weed... I honestly think it should be mandatory but cigarettes? Nah.

@ness mandatory that you smoke it once or on a regular basis?

Jan 25, 2019 13:38:48 GMT System said:

@ness mandatory that you smoke it once or on a regular basis?

Think it should be treated like happy hour. A doobie after work would do the world a lot of good.

I am a freaking expert on this topic and am oddly prepped on the discussion points so let me break down the thread.

"the chemicals they put in cigarettes are there for no other reason than to make you addicted" - misinformation. There are no chemicals added to cigarettes to make them addictive. Nicotine is all they need and it is naturally occurring. In fact, over the years, nicotine levels in cigarettes have been lowered and the addictive principle remains.

"there has to be a link to their addictions to other drugs like crack or whatever the fuck they are on"- mental health. self-treating depression.

"The fact that this bullshit is legal and sold the way it is" - sold the way it is? Highly regulated, highly taxed, with warnings, and as many controls as they can to sell to consenting adults with choices. How is that bad?

"Big corporations kind of suck."- Big Tobacco, a name given to demonize without the understanding of the wiring behind the board. American independent tobacco farmers work. Union tobacco workers. Kill big tobacco and you kill them too. It's not a faceless corporation filled with white shirts creating a demonic plan. Just like it's not a shadow government running a pedophile ring. Demonizing big tobacco is a way people have pawned to criminalize independent adult choice aka Freedom.


"the question I have is why people start smoking in today's day and age"- System , nailed a key component. people smoke because the short term pleasure outweighs the long term health effects to them.

The other key point is nicotine, the naturally occurring chemical in tobacco that has been used for centuries nearly globally while free of Western influence has been an enjoyable euphoria... People keep going back to it to self-treat mental health. Simple as that. It gets you high and people almost universally like the high.

I think Malcolm Gladwell nailed a key component of why people try smoking in Tipping Point. It is only natural in adolescence that children rebel. Nicotine, tobacco and now vaping is the soup du jour for rebellion.



"Honestly the fact that tobacco is legal and cannabis is not is absolutely mind-boggling."- It's actually pretty simple when it comes down to it. I recently finished a phenomenal book. If I could guarantee a sit-down conversation with any of you to discuss it I would buy you a copy in a heartbeat. It does the best job ever in explaining why marijuana and other drug use had been criminalized while at the same time being the best arguments I have ever read on why we all should get high. stealingfirebook.com/. Simply put, the popularity of tobacco's high has been so popular that the people who want to control thought have been unable to control it. Pot is just not that popular historically. It may be a better product by yours and many other opinions but over the test of time, it has failed. I do believe that once the tobacco companies move from tobacco to nicotine as they have been.  And most of the larger tobacco companies in the US plan to be out of tobacco in the future.  We will see more of tobacco companies controlling pot and they will create a better pot based product that we have seen. The key to cigarettes, Adderall, and Vicodin is micro-dosing. Once tobacco companies lower the amount of THC and sativa in pot and make it a microdose it will be just as addictive as cigarettes, Adderall, and Vicodin. Old school native American tobacco smoking was much stronger and less addictive. Same with meth to Adderall and heroin to Vicodin etc.

Old school tobacco smoking.




"If people want to smoke, then let them smoke.
Darwinism is a thing and I shed no tears for the self-inflicted death of stupid people." - Exactly it ribs me is how quick people are to try to criminalize and demonize personal freedom when it comes to tobacco. If we regulated everything that was harm or risk we would have no freedom. Tyranny.

"It's been proven to inhibit cancer cell growth and in some cases even kill the cells" - yes, in Petri dishes. But so does bleach. It is misinformation. It is not by any means been shown to be an effective treatment for cancer. Arguably, the long term research isn't in to show that it is effective for anything. And by no means should anyone be sold it as an elixir for everything like old snake oil. Just wait, that's CBD.


"There's a reason medical marijuana is prescribed to those who need it and not medical tobacco" - you know, it wasn't all too long ago historically that Dr recommended cigarettes in propaganda. Arguably there are medical benefits to tobacco. There is a long history of tobacco used in traditional medicines. But the current medical establishment fines the harm is not worth the reward.


I think that covers most of the points I wanted to touch on. I was having trouble reading the book I was reading because I wanted to nail so many points on this. I probably missed some.

Update: speaking on behalf of big tobacco. Big tobacco wants legal weed. Probably more than any other industry in the world. I would bet they are why you see the shift in America to legalize weed. Big tobacco will be big pot in the future. It is their life line.

The funny thing is though pot at one point was almost as popular as tobacco in America. We grew hemp fields everywhere, and smoking cannabis was damn near as popular as puffing on pipe tobacco. Both the natives and the colonists were smoking it up. It wasn't till much later in time that it's use started getting restricted and frowned upon.

Jan 25, 2019 15:59:14 GMT thereallt said:

The funny thing is though pot at one point was almost as popular as tobacco in America. We grew hemp fields everywhere, and smoking cannabis was damn near as popular as puffing on pipe tobacco. Both the natives and the colonists were smoking it up. It wasn't till much later in time that it's use started getting restricted and frowned upon.

I get notion and respect the notion.  But is there anything near factual to back that notion up?  Not the hemp fields.  But the pot use being any what comparable to tobacco use.  The only reason I ask is because it sounds like typical pro pot propaganda.  I am doubtful and skeptical anyone kept accurate records of usage of either in colonial America.  It smells like a true lie anyone could tell but no evidence could support.  


As America was colonized by a like of religious folk and puritans and such it would fit the global m.o. of harshing out on pot and drug as euphoria should only be found in the lord.  That's a big part of the book.

Jan 25, 2019 16:09:42 GMT theend said:

Jan 25, 2019 15:59:14 GMT thereallt said:

The funny thing is though pot at one point was almost as popular as tobacco in America. We grew hemp fields everywhere, and smoking cannabis was damn near as popular as puffing on pipe tobacco. Both the natives and the colonists were smoking it up. It wasn't till much later in time that it's use started getting restricted and frowned upon.

I get notion and respect the notion.  But is there anything near factual to back that notion up?  Not the hemp fields.  But the pot use being any what comparable to tobacco use.  The only reason I ask is because it sounds like typical pro pot propaganda.  I am doubtful and skeptical anyone kept accurate records of usage of either in colonial America.  It smells like a true lie anyone could tell but no evidence could support.  


As America was colonized by a like of religious folk and puritans and such it would fit the global m.o. of harshing out on pot and drug as euphoria should only be found in the lord.  That's a big part of the book.

Only VERY early colonists were Puritan.  Most of the Founding Fathers themselves weren't very religious at all.

Jan 25, 2019 14:37:42 GMT theend said:

I am a freaking expert on this topic and am oddly prepped on the discussion points so let me break down the thread.

"the chemicals they put in cigarettes are there for no other reason than to make you addicted" - misinformation. There are no chemicals added to cigarettes to make them addictive. Nicotine is all they need and it is naturally occurring. In fact, over the years, nicotine levels in cigarettes have been lowered and the addictive principle remains.

"there has to be a link to their addictions to other drugs like crack or whatever the fuck they are on"- mental health. self-treating depression.

"The fact that this bullshit is legal and sold the way it is" - sold the way it is? Highly regulated, highly taxed, with warnings, and as many controls as they can to sell to consenting adults with choices. How is that bad?

"Big corporations kind of suck."- Big Tobacco, a name given to demonize without the understanding of the wiring behind the board. American independent tobacco farmers work. Union tobacco workers. Kill big tobacco and you kill them too. It's not a faceless corporation filled with white shirts creating a demonic plan. Just like it's not a shadow government running a pedophile ring. Demonizing big tobacco is a way people have pawned to criminalize independent adult choice aka Freedom.


"the question I have is why people start smoking in today's day and age"- System , nailed a key component. people smoke because the short term pleasure outweighs the long term health effects to them.

The other key point is nicotine, the naturally occurring chemical in tobacco that has been used for centuries nearly globally while free of Western influence has been an enjoyable euphoria... People keep going back to it to self-treat mental health. Simple as that. It gets you high and people almost universally like the high.

I think Malcolm Gladwell nailed a key component of why people try smoking in Tipping Point. It is only natural in adolescence that children rebel. Nicotine, tobacco and now vaping is the soup du jour for rebellion.



"Honestly the fact that tobacco is legal and cannabis is not is absolutely mind-boggling."- It's actually pretty simple when it comes down to it. I recently finished a phenomenal book. If I could guarantee a sit-down conversation with any of you to discuss it I would buy you a copy in a heartbeat. It does the best job ever in explaining why marijuana and other drug use had been criminalized while at the same time being the best arguments I have ever read on why we all should get high. stealingfirebook.com/. Simply put, the popularity of tobacco's high has been so popular that the people who want to control thought have been unable to control it. Pot is just not that popular historically. It may be a better product by yours and many other opinions but over the test of time, it has failed. I do believe that once the tobacco companies move from tobacco to nicotine as they have been.  And most of the larger tobacco companies in the US plan to be out of tobacco in the future.  We will see more of tobacco companies controlling pot and they will create a better pot based product that we have seen. The key to cigarettes, Adderall, and Vicodin is micro-dosing. Once tobacco companies lower the amount of THC and sativa in pot and make it a microdose it will be just as addictive as cigarettes, Adderall, and Vicodin. Old school native American tobacco smoking was much stronger and less addictive. Same with meth to Adderall and heroin to Vicodin etc.

Old school tobacco smoking.




"If people want to smoke, then let them smoke.
Darwinism is a thing and I shed no tears for the self-inflicted death of stupid people." - Exactly it ribs me is how quick people are to try to criminalize and demonize personal freedom when it comes to tobacco. If we regulated everything that was harm or risk we would have no freedom. Tyranny.

"It's been proven to inhibit cancer cell growth and in some cases even kill the cells" - yes, in Petri dishes. But so does bleach. It is misinformation. It is not by any means been shown to be an effective treatment for cancer. Arguably, the long term research isn't in to show that it is effective for anything. And by no means should anyone be sold it as an elixir for everything like old snake oil. Just wait, that's CBD.


"There's a reason medical marijuana is prescribed to those who need it and not medical tobacco" - you know, it wasn't all too long ago historically that Dr recommended cigarettes in propaganda. Arguably there are medical benefits to tobacco. There is a long history of tobacco used in traditional medicines. But the current medical establishment fines the harm is not worth the reward.


I think that covers most of the points I wanted to touch on. I was having trouble reading the book I was reading because I wanted to nail so many points on this. I probably missed some.

They add chemicals to increase effect of nicotine to make users physically dependent, ammonia and coumarin, somebody blew the whistle on this and big tobacco tried to destroy him for it. Relatives i have act a certain way when they dont have smokes, my theory is the tobacco is like the central addiction that all others revolve around, like the sun and planets in our solar system, tobacco is the sun and those chemicals are the gravity, they increase the addictive nature of nicotine but also the crack and pain pills too. Just a theory i have based on what ive seen and had to deal with

My dad died from lung cancer as a result of being a chain smoker since he was 12.

I tried smoking but didn't like it and therefore am not a smoker. Smoke used to never bother me because when I worked in the nightclub you were allowed to smoke and I was married to a 2 pack a day smoker. But now that they don't allow smoking indoors and most of my friends have quit, it annoys me. I have a friend who lives out of town. I love to visit with her but she smokes in her home. In the summer it's better as we spend most of the time outdoors but in the winter, staying over is a real chore so I tend to avoid goign there even though I'd like to see her. It just seeps into my skin, hair and clothes. I have to wash and rewash everything.

I'd hasten to say it would be deal breaker for dating someone.

I smoked between 2000 and 2009. Originally I only smoked cloves because I really liked the taste of them, but then the nicotine addiction kicked in and I smoked anything I could get my hands on.

So glad I quit, best decision I've ever made. Thankfully I wasn't a lifetime smoker either.

Fortunately, I never started. You can TV for that. I was raised on seeing PSAs about smoking during morning cartoons. And I took all of that to heart.

How do you all feel about the fact that due to streaming services children get much more exposure to people smoking than they do in the network and movie media? Will it impact consumers smoking?

Jan 25, 2019 19:47:30 GMT theend said:

How do you all feel about the fact that due to streaming services children get much more exposure to people smoking than they do in the network and movie media? Will it impact consumers smoking?

Honestly, I think the exposure from their peers and family has much more of an impact then what they see on TV/movies.

If my daughter's boyfriend didn't smoke pot and vape I honestly doubt she would.  She doesn't when she's not around her friends or him.

Jan 25, 2019 19:47:30 GMT theend said:

How do you all feel about the fact that due to streaming services children get much more exposure to people smoking than they do in the network and movie media? Will it impact consumers smoking?

I read an article that smoking in movies has actually increased since 2011 anyway. A study in the Centers for Disease Control found that the total number of tobacco incidents in top grossing movies increased 72 percent between 2010 and 2016. It also increased 43 percent in PG-13 movies. I remember when The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo came out in 2011, it was jarring to see people smoking again. Even as a non-smoker, I was pleased to see it, actually, just because people smoke in real life and it was weird that it wasn't represented in Hollywood movies anymore. 

With that being said, I saw a graph which was used to prove a different point (that teen smoking was pretty much eliminated, then vaping came along and caused a new problem), but because it shows the decline in teen smoking in the same years where there was increased usage in movies, it probably means there's very little cause and effect these days.

It's a filthy, disgusting habit - if you want to smoke, ruin your own health in your own home, in your own time.

I'm a supporter of smoking being banned completely in public, similarly to alcohol.

Why you would put something into your body that kills it? Except for alcohol, glorious alcohol.

Jan 25, 2019 19:47:30 GMT theend said:

How do you all feel about the fact that due to streaming services children get much more exposure to people smoking than they do in the network and movie media? Will it impact consumers smoking?

Never thought about that.

It really annoys me in period piece movies to show “Hey this is authentic everyone smoked back then” while the casting doesn’t reflect the time at all.

Jan 25, 2019 23:19:40 GMT System said:

Jan 25, 2019 19:47:30 GMT theend said:

How do you all feel about the fact that due to streaming services children get much more exposure to people smoking than they do in the network and movie media? Will it impact consumers smoking?

Never thought about that.

It really annoys me in period piece movies to show “Hey this is authentic everyone smoked back then” while the casting doesn’t reflect the time at all.

What are you saying? They'll sacrifice authenticity for diversity, as an example. But get the little details right.

The law in NSW (I don’t know about elsewhere) that you can’t eat in a smoking area is ridiculous. I think it’s been 2 years since it’s been introduced and most just ignore it.

So the law is basically

1. You can’t smoke in an outside eating area

That’s fine I get that some people want to dine outside and not be around cigarette smoke.

2. You can’t eat in a smoking area

Why not? No one in their right mind was going into designated smoking areas before this and complaining that people were smoking ..in the smoking area while they were trying to eat there. You can eat certain snacks but not meals basically which is even weirder.

Geez.

I feel like I’m standing inside a small box in Disney World labeled the smoking section and everyone is looking at me.

I am a smoker. 15 years. I smoke 2 packs a day and I prefer menthol lights.

Thanks for all the information, particularly theend I suppose it's just the cycle of addiction because looking at it from an outsiders perspective, knowing what we know now, there aren't really any benefits to smoking cigarettes. I'll never really grasp the idea of short term pleasure from it when the long term damage is so blatantly obvious. Taking years off your life for small moments of bliss does not add up to me.

The only time I have ever smoked was when I was a little careless on the job... The perils of being an electrical apprentice I guess

Right now, the state is trying to get this bill passed in which the legal age for purchasing cigarettes would change to 30 next year, to 40 in 2021, to 50 in 2022, to 60 in 2023, and to 100 in 2024. As expensive as cigs are here, if that hasn't stopped smokers, nothing will. Not only that, it already sounds like it would be a difficult law to enforce.

Feb 5, 2019 19:16:42 GMT Dukezilla said:

Right now, the state is trying to get this bill passed in which the legal age for purchasing cigarettes would change to 30 next year, to 40 in 2021, to 50 in 2022, to 60 in 2023, and to 100 in 2024. As expensive as cigs are here, if that hasn't stopped smokers, nothing will. Not only that, it already sounds like it would be a difficult law to enforce.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47129503

LOL hello black market.

good thing they are isolated. or else they would be going over the border in no time. The tobacco grey market of white vans crossing over state lines and tobacco being sold without proper taxes being paid is quite common in the states.