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Post by 🤯 on Feb 5, 2019 17:30:00 GMT
1 5-Star Frog Splash 2 Shooting Star Press 3 Walls of Jericho 4 Showstopper 5 Pedigree 6 Rock Bottom 7 People's Elbow 8 Stone Cold Stunner 9 Clothesline from Hell 10 Double Arm DDT
This was somewhat influenced by a retrospective view, as I knew little of WCW in real time and even less of ECW. It's also influenced somewhat by what I'd already given love to in 1998.
RVD's frog splash really is there to represent his entire moveset. Had I known who RVD was and what he was doing in real time in 1999, I would've been even more excited when he showed up in the WWF in 2001. As it was, I was super stoked when he (re)debuted.
Kidman's SSP gets the #2 because dazzling moves off the top rope were becoming the increasing rage, and Kidman seemed to be on an upward trajectory in 1999. Realistically, this maybe probably should've been replaced by a Phoenix Splash... But fuck it.
I forgot to give Y2J's WoJ love in 1998, so making up for it here. When it was still executed as a Liontamer, with the victim stacked on his neck with Jericho's knee on his head, that shit looked like the single most painful submission ever.
Show got the nod for chokeslam representation just because his had the extra height on average, and plus he chokeslammed Taker through the ring.
HHH's Pedigree stock had risen a lot along with HHH's evolution in 1999. One of those moves that could theoretically be executed on an opponent of any size, which I always like. And a move, when executed a certain way, looks like a death blow.
Rock's 1-2 combo and the Stunner get their respect votes. Rock above Austin as Rock is on the rise and Austin is on the way down, toward the injured reserve roster. Should've maybe had the People's Elbow over the Rock Bottom because of how over that move was and generally how over the entrainment aspect (more so than the sports aspect) of pro wrestling was in 1999.
Clothesline from Hell is a personal favorite. With Bradshaw on the rise in the Acolytes, this move got enough of a spotlight for me to feel ok giving it its due love here.
Mick's double arm DDT, when executed and sold well, was a welcome vacation from Socko claws. I feel like it could've maybe benefited from a snazzy name, but oh well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 21:49:05 GMT
As for most improved, with regards to Triple H I've seen that movie before. Don't want to beat a dead horse but when people argue Franchise vs Game, I've always seen a lot more of peak Shane and Francine (96-97) getting emulated in Edge and Lita 10 years later more than anything. Probably a coincidence or just me, but the mannerisms and persona and chickenshit heeling just reminds me of the two. Will post my take on most improved probably tonight and maybe themes to even though I didn't contribute.
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Post by Baker on Feb 5, 2019 22:32:45 GMT
Fwiw I think "The Game" Triple H is a pretty blatant "Franchise" Shane Douglas ripoff who would eventually do Shane Douglas far better than Shane Douglas ever did. But he still wasn't there yet in 1999. In my opinion 1999 Triple H is every bit as bad as 97-99 Shane Douglas and *spoiler alert* I'm sure I'll write much more about this when we get to Least Favorite Wrestlers. I know Douglas vs. Pit Bull #2 looks silly on paper. I thought the same thing when I read about it in the Apter Mags. But that feud actually ruled. Ugh! I can't believe I am kinda sorta defending Shane Douglas. Time to move on so I can get that bad taste out of my mouth.... I just realized that we didn't do a Wrestler of the Year/MVP category. That's like the biggest category of them all! We all dropped the ball here. So to make amends I will post my quick Top 5 for both 98 & 99 Wrestler of the Year/MVP 19981. Steve Austin 2. Goldberg 3. The Rock 4. Mick Foley 5. Undertaker Wrestler of the Year/MVP 19991. Rob Van Dam 2. The Rock 3. Steve Austin 4. Taz 5. Triple H Best Finishers was the category I put the least amount of thought into. The 3D was my #1 from the get go for the 2nd straight year. That was THE move in late 90s wrestling as far as I was concerned. Late in the game I decided the Rikishi Driver & Cradle Piledriver were my #2 & #3. I may have literally jumped out of my seat the first time I ever saw the Rikishi Driver live at a Baltimore tv taping. I had seen the move before from Balls & Bam Bam. Thought it was cool but it didn't really blow my mind the way Rikishi's did. I suppose it was the fact that such a seemingly dangerous move was done in a WWF ring by a longtime journeyman in Fatu who I never really thought of as a 'move' guy that did the trick for me. Definitely a mind blower the first few times I saw it. The Piledriver was already my choice for GOAT move in 1999. Jerry Lynn put the finishing touches on his rise from outhouse to penthouse by adding a new little wrinkle to what was already the greatest pro wrestling move of all time. 4-9 really could have been in any order. I just went with popular stuff that fared well on the 1998 countdown. Though if I had watched the videos I posted before voting the Pedigree would have been much higher while the Jackhammer would have replaced DDP's Diamond Cutter as my WCW representative. Those moves/videos are sick. I also regret not voting for Bradshaw's Clothesline From Hell. Can there be such a thing as Most Improved Finisher? Because if so Bradshaw's Lariat from 96-98 was the most improved finisher of all time when it came to me giving it credibility. I threw the sick Top Rope Juvy Driver in at #10. Killer move. But it was only done once (as far as I know) on Blitzkrieg at Spring Stampede. Austin's Stunner edged out RVD's Five Star Frog Splash to win for the 2nd straight year. RVD can at least claim the consolation prize by winning the Battle of the Frog Splash over D'Lo's 4 star version and Eddie's 3 star offering. I'm glad 🤯 clarified The Showstopper was Big Show's chokeslam. I thought WWF briefly(?) called it that but wasn't 100% sure. I am surprised and pleased at Jeff Hardy's Swanton not getting a ton of love. Iirc that won a lot of the real time 1999 awards. I always thought it was incredibly overrated due to the fact that it barely grazed Jeff's opponent. Aesthetically pleasing, sure. But about as impactful as a gust of wind to the chest. For a quick primer.... Regular Swanton: Weak sauce Swanton through a table: YAY! I am also displeased by a few people on PW falling for the People's Elbow hype. It worked for me as a ridiculous heel finisher. Like Rock is so good, and so arrogant, that he's going to humiliate people by pinning them with this utterly absurd move. But it definitely jumped the shark once Rock turned face and they started treating it like a legitimate move. It drove me up a wall. "An elbow drop hasn't been a credible finisher since the 80s! If not the 70s!! And this is a RIDICULOUS elbow drop!!! Buddy Landell's Corkscrew Elbow was laughable in 1995!!!! It's now 1999 and Rocky's is even worse!!!!!" Oh well. At least only one of you fell for the ridiculousness of Mr. Socko. If we did a Worst Finishers of 1999 Countdown I imagine the People's Elbow & Mr. Socko would be my #1 & #2. My List1. 3D (#3) 2. Rikishi Driver (#4 tie) 3. Jerry Lynn's Cradle Piledriver (#10 tie) 4. Stunner (#1) 5. RVD's Five Star Frog Splash (#2) 6. Undertaker's Tombstone 7. Tazmission (#10 tie) 8. Triple H's Pedigree (#6 tie) 9. DDP's Diamond Cutter (#10 tie) 10. Top Rope Juvy Driver Which reminds me....how in the world was I the only person to vote for Undertaker's Tombstone? It's only one of the most iconic moves ever!
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Post by Kilgore on Feb 5, 2019 23:55:52 GMT
Steve Austin's Stunner: The most over finishing move still in 1999, and probably still to this day.
Rob Van Dam's Five Star Frog Splash: RVD all in one motion jump up to the top rope as the crowd knew the 5 Star Frog Splash was coming next was the real most electrifying move of 1999.
Dudley Boyz 3D: Nitpicking, the move probably peaked in '97 and '98 and was (slightly) old hat by 1999 (in ECW), but it was still obviously awesome.
Rikishi Driver: I had to look up the Rikishi Driver to refresh my memory. I thought it was the Greetings From Asbury Park, butt didn't know for sure. Cool move, but overshadowed by the stinkface.
Goldberg's Jackhammer: Same as the 3D, very slightly less cool, but still cool.
Triple H's Pedigree: I've never been a huge Pedigree fan. It takes a while to happen, and when you really think about it's not much more than bulldog.
The Rock's People's Elbow: Although it is technically a finisher, I always think of it as more of a signature move, as it was best used because it didn't have much of a right to finish anybody.
Kidman's Shooting Star Press: A little high for my liking, but unquestionably still over in '99 even though it was the ugliest SSP of all time.
Kenta Kobashi's Burning Hammer: Incredible move, but I don't think of it as 1999 because I just didn't see it in 1999. Jerry Lynn's Cradle Piledriver: I through this on the end of my list as respect thinking no one else would. Was glad Baker repped it so high.The final touch on JL's miraculous rise and one of those tweaks that is so simple, yet goes so far.
Tazmission: Yeah, Taz choking people out still ruled in 1999, although slightly less.
Diamond Cutter: People were still yelling BANG in 1999.
Awesome Bomb: The best part of an "Awesome Bomb" vote is that encompasses like 10 variations. It's like a cheat code. The top rope Awesome Bomb, the balance, done so many times that I think it was taken for granted, but like few people could ever pull that off and Mike Awesome made it look effortless. When he started doing it backwards back into the ring, mind blown.
Swanton Bomb: I would have voted for the Swanton in 1999, like really high. I didn't vote for it at all in this, but I probably should. It's hard to think about 1999 without the Swanton Bomb. I fucked up.
Phoenix Splash (Hayabusa): I voted for a Phoenix Splash, but the Blitzkrieg one! With Hayabusa, it was just that I didn't see him wrestle in 1999, so it was a bit out of sight/out of mind.
I voted for these but it didn't make the final list:
Sharpshooter: Bret Hart's Sharpshooter mattered in 1999 again! Unfortunately, for the last time. Mandatory vote. It was obviously too late and no one cared anymore, but watching Bret win the Big Gold Belt via Sharpshooter was what I had wanted to see for the prior two eyars.
450 Splash (Juvy): I loved Juvy's 450, so I gave a shoutout for it.
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Post by Baker on Feb 6, 2019 3:19:38 GMT
FeudsWinner: The Rock vs. Mankind- 59 Points
#2 Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon- 55 Points
#3 Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn- 48 Points
4. Tajiri vs. Super Crazy- 39 Points
5. Dudley Boyz vs. Balls Mahoney/Spike Dudley & Friends- 24 Points 6. Impact Players vs. Tommy Dreamer & Friends- 19 Points 7. Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka- 18 Points 8. Steve Austin vs. The Rock- 17 Points 9. Raven & Saturn vs. Benoit & Malenko vs. Rey & Kidman- 16 Points 10. Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian- 14 Points Steve Austin vs. Undertaker- 12 Points Taz vs. Sabu- 9 Points Triple H vs. Vince McMahon- 8 Points Chyna vs. Jeff Jarrett- 7 Points Test vs. Shane McMahon- 4 Points Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada- 4 Points Triple H vs. The Rock- 4 Points Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer- 4 Points Justin Credible vs. Sabu- 3 Points Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Vader- 3 Points Taz vs. Shane Douglas- 2 Points Scott Steiner vs. Booker T- 1 Point
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Post by Baker on Feb 6, 2019 3:26:36 GMT
I received 6.5 ballots in the Feuds category. A few of the images I selected didn't work. Then the backups I picked also failed to work. Then I gave up. Maybe I'll edit them in later.
As with 1998 this was the hardest category to compile. I went with my gut on a few of them with the WCW Tag scene receiving the most 'edits.' I can redo it posting the votes exactly as I received them if you guys want me to.
The results in this category have to be the most unexpected thus far. Rock/Mankind over Austin/McMahon! ECW over performed from what I was expecting while stuff like Hardys/E&C and Austin/Taker (which didn't even make the Top 10!) under performed. I'll add more thoughts and share my own list tomorrow.
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Post by Big Pete on Feb 6, 2019 11:43:32 GMT
A lot of the finishing moves were already talked about in the 98 thread, so I won't go over old ground.
Finishers Stone Cold Stunner – Steve Austin Swanton Bomb – Jeff Hardy The Most Electrifying Move In Sports Entertainment Today The People’s Elbow!! – The Rock Mr. Socko – Mankind The Skytwister – Blitzkrieg Rikishi Driver – Rikishi Van Daminator – Rob Van Dam The Pedigree – Triple H The Katahajime - Taz Top-Rope Juvi Driver – Juventud Guerrera
'99 was the year where the WWF ran away with the Monday Night War and the Stunner was the move that made fans go crazy. I could be cute and disqualify it, but who am I kidding? Plus, Vince had his own version of the move and he was one of the biggest stars in the industry.
Jeff hitting that Swanton off the ladder was a career defining moment. That ladder match is one of the first things I think about, and the guy who sticks out is Jeff. Even grabbing that briefcase was a stunt in of itself.
I thought the People's Elbow sucked. In an industry where Goldberg was spearing people as hard as he could, Razor was dumping people on their necks like a human dart board, Jericho was bending your spine in places it shouldn't go and X-Pac is rubbing his balls in your face, the People's Elbow was so weak. Then I came to respect it and it really was amazing that The Rock was able to get the most basic of moves over in 99.
Similar train of thought with Mr. Socko. The hardcore legend got a sock puppet over and it was by far and away his most memorable offensive move. (Sorry PI)
The Skytwister is still the best god damn dive in all of Pro Wrestling. I fell in love with WCW 99 just because it gave us that brief Blitzkrieg run.
Before he became the Stinkface guy, Rikishi got over because he had the best piledriver in the business.
Van Dam had the best frog splash of anybody, but the Van Daminator was the one spot you watched that you instantly had to tie with Rob. On paper it's such a dumb spot because the mission statement against Rob is that you should never carry a chair ever, but this was ECW and if you couldn't wield a chair, you were stuck being a tag guy. The way they'd set the spot up with the hot potato stuff was really clever Pro Wrestling and Van Dam always made sure to make the move look like a believable finish.
I gave the Pedigree a shout out for much the same reason I gave all the big moves a shout out, because they were insanely over. In this case, Chyna started using the move and she was a big part of that period - moreso than Stevie Ray and Sick Boy in 98.
The Katahajime was as over as it ever was in '99. I just remember all these urban legends surrounding the move - like some deadshit tried it on somebody and fried their brain kind of stories. They were probably bullshit, but the move wasn't.
Shout out to the enhanced version of the Juvi Driver, that was on every Cruiserweight Compilation growing up and is still one of the top five best finishes in WCW history. What I love about Juvi is that he's Rey without common sense. He doesn't care if the move makes sense or if it's dangerous, he'll just go for it and 9/10 hit it flawlessly.
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Post by 🤯 on Feb 6, 2019 13:58:44 GMT
1 Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn 2 The Rock vs. Mankind 3 Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon 4 WCW's Tag Team Scene feat. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Raven & Perry Saturn vs. The Jersey Triad vs. The Filthy Animals 5 ECW's Cruiserweight Scene feat. Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Super Crazy vs. Little Guido vs. Jerry Lynn 6 Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz 7 Steve Austin vs. The Rock 8 Jeff Jarrett vs. Chyna 9 Triple H vs. The Rock 10 Booker T vs. Scott Steiner
As someone who didn't follow ECW in real time and who hasn't really delved into it in much depth after the fact, I don't know much about what constituted the RVD/Lynn rivalry. I call it a rivalry because I'm not even sure if it was a feud per se. I don't know who was heel, who was face, etc. All I know is that the matches fucking ruled in a mind-blowing way. And it was on the strength of strictly the in-ring stuff between the two that I felt comfortable giving them my top spot. Can't wait for a true ECW fan to edumacate me more on this rivalry.
Rock/Mankind edges out Austin/McMahon for me in 1999. Throughout the year, Austin/McMahon feels like it jumps the shark despite being as hot as ever. Rock/Mankind, meanwhile, goes through some interesting evolutions. The heated feud at the beginning of the year produces possibly some of WWF's MOTY candidates. Then Rock turns face and Rock 'n' Sock Connection becomes an entertaining thing, with This Is Your Life being one of those MOMENTS in WWF history. Then, by the end of the year, the nefarious McMahon-Helmsley Regime has figured out how to pit Rock and Mick begrudgingly against each other once again.
I fucking LOVED WCW's tag team division when it comprised Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, Raven, DDP, Kanyon, Eddie, Rey, Kidman, etc. around the spring or so. Subsequent to the God level hype the CW division got a couple years earlier, this was the next best shot at getting me legitimately into WCW.
Similarly, even though I was exposed to it after the fact, any combo of Super Crazy/Tajiri/Lynn/Guido in ECW was the fucking bee's knees to me.
E&C/Hardyz start to establish their legend, and put an exclamation point on 1999 with that ladder match. I get giddy thinking of them being able to mix it up with WCW's tag division mentioned above.
Austin/Rock rekindle their feud from the tail end of 1997. If I was considering the span of their entire feud, this ranks much higher. In 1999 though, Rock seemed to have bigger beef with Mankind and seemed like a proxy for Vince when mixing it up with Austin. Similar line of thinking for HHH/Rock. Still good, but 1998 or 2000 lands them higher overall.
JJ/Chyna felt hot and important at the time.
I think Steiner/Booker might've been somewhat filler for me.
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Post by Shootist on Feb 6, 2019 17:49:06 GMT
1. Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn 2. Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon 3. Steve Austin vs. The Rock 4. The Rock vs. Mankind 5. Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka 6. Steve Austin vs. Undertaker 7. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada 8. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Vader 9. The Rock vs. Triple H 10. Edge and Christian vs. The Hardyz
There was a feud element to the RVD/Lynn rivalry as Lynn referred to himself as the New F'n Show. In traditional ECW style though there was no true heel or face.
Putting in my two cents with AJPW it was a surprise to see Kawada beat Misawa for the belts once again, it sucked that he sustained a broken arm in the process though. It was also really cool to see Vader show up and have all the necessary dream matches with the big 4. Some of those made my match list.
I was curious to see how the rivalries between Austin, Rock and Foley played out as they all kind of got mashed up together in my memory.
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Post by Baker on Feb 7, 2019 2:04:54 GMT
Judging by the response, or lack thereof, I guess I'm the only one shocked by Rock/Mankind besting Austin/McMahon for greatest feud of 1999. Rock vs. Mankind was no doubt a good feud. Great even! They wrestled a bunch of times. Had several memorable matches and segments. But Austin/McMahon was still carrying the program. Hell, they even squared off in official matches this year! Something that did not happen in 1998. Yeah, there was some shark jumping, but I can even b.s. my way around the Higher Power angle using the excuse that by this point Mr. McMahon was a megalomaniacal cartoon super villain, and coming up with convoluted Rube Goldbergesque plans is exactly what megalomaniacal cartoon super villains do. This remains the biggest countdown shocker yet imo. RVD/Lynn & Tajiri/Crazy finished higher on the PW list than my own. I expected this and have no complaints. It's just a matter of personal preference. I tend to gravitate towards hate-filled blood feuds over babyface workrate feuds. Hardys/E&C falls into the same category, though I expected this one to finish much higher than 10th. All three of these feuds did their job. 7 new stars were created while the 8th man in these feuds was already the most over man in pro wrestling from a per capita standpoint. I'm with 🤯 on the 1999 spring WCW tag team scene being the best thing WCW did that year, if not one of the best things in the entirety of late 90s WCW. I voted specifically for the heel vs. face goodness of Flock vs. Horsemen but ended up lumping Filthy Animals votes in with votes for the other two teams since it really was all one overarching larger feud. Dudleys vs. Balls/Spike/Etc. and Impact Players vs. Tommy & Friends were both on my list. Now these were the kind of hate-filled blood feuds I could really sink my teeth into. My only mistake was stupidly rating the rather samey Duds feud (at #2!) over the far deeper Impact Players vs. Tommy & Friends feud. Don't know what I was thinking by rating Duds vs. Balls/Spike/Axl/New Jack/Etc. so high. I don't even remember doing that I briefly considered Rock/Austin before leaving it off with no regrets. Kilgore mentioned how he thought Austin/Taker @ Summerslam felt bigger than Austin/Michaels @ 'Mania in the 1998 thread. I'm the same way in '99 about feeling like Austin/Taker was bigger than Austin/Rock. Rock just seemed like a Vince surrogate while Taker was (initially) his own thing entirely. Why he was even a bigger heel than Vince for a little while there! I completely blanked on Awesome/Tanaka. Didn't even consider it. It's worthy, for sure. But I also have no regrets about forgetting it/leaving it off. While it didn't crack the Top 10, I was surprised to see Sabu/Taz get so much love. I was not at all into a renewal of this "played out" feud. Nor did I think Sabu had a snowball's chance in hell of winning their big PPV match. I probably hadn't thought about the '99 version of this storied rivalry since......1999. Another one worth mentioning is Taz/Douglas. Kilgore was spot on again in the 1998 thread when he said this would get screwed by overlapping years. He's right. All the build came in 1998 while the payoff(s) came one week in early 1999. So, yeah, this got the shaft due to a quirk of the calendar. My List1. Austin vs. McMahon (#2) 2. Dudleys vs. All (#5) 3. Rock vs. Mankind (#1) 4. Austin vs. Undertaker 5. Flock vs. Horsemen (#9) 6. Impact Players vs. Tommy Dreamer & Friends (#6) 7. Chyna vs. Jeff Jarrett 8. RVD vs. Jerry Lynn (#3) 9. Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian (#10) 10. Tajiri vs. Super Crazy (#4) Chyna vs. Jarrett was one of the best booked feuds WWF had all year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I finally found my first mistake in two countdowns. Big Pete voted for the Van Daminator in the Finishers category. I mistakenly added the points to RVD's Frog Splash. Will correct after this post. It won't effect the Top 10 placement. Least Favorite Wrestler results will probably be up before I go to sleep tonight.
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Post by Kilgore on Feb 7, 2019 2:38:41 GMT
While it didn't crack the Top 10, I was surprised to see Sabu/Taz get so much love. I was not at all into a renewal of this "played out" feud. Nor did I think Sabu had a snowball's chance in hell of winning their big PPV match. I probably hadn't thought about the '99 version of this storied rivalry since......1999. Never forget that Sabu got his revenge and beat Taz clean at the end of the year (as Paul E. was jobbing Taz out the door, but still this mattered to me as a Sabu Guy!).
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Post by Baker on Feb 7, 2019 4:40:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:04:03 GMT
I did not have time to get Finishers or Themes lists in. I dig the rankings though, Walk and Enter Sandman would have definitely made my top 2 so these results put a big ol smile on my face. The Sandman's return is probably my favorite wrestling moment of the year and the music was such a huge part of it(the crowd singing along with the lyrics through the whole segment, easily one of the best wrestling segments ever). 1999 was the year I fell head over heels in love with ECW and Pantera so the two were kinda connected in my heart with RVD using Walk.
I was left scratching my head for most improved, couldn't put a list together really.
These were my lists for the last two
Top 10 Feuds Of 1999
1. RVD vs Jerry Lynn 2. The Rock vs Mankind 3. Yoshihiro Tajiri vs Super Crazy 4. Dudley Boys vs Balls/New Jack/Spike/Axl 5. Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka 6. Sabu vs Taz 7. Raven vs Tommy Dreamer II 8. Sabu vs Justin Credible 9. Hardy Boyz vs Edge/Christian 10. Impact Players vs Tommy Dreamer & friends
Sabu and Taz where my two favorite wrestlers in 1999, I had scratched the surface some in late 1998 but didn't really start to get into ECW history until 99, was just blown away by these two, to me they made everything else in wrestling look so boring and retarded. It was a very similar relationship that I had with Vanderlei Silva and Cro Cop when I got into the Pride tapes years after ECW died. Whenever the two of them would hook it up in the ring it was a major deal for me, even if the match/fight was not that great just the sight of them head to head made my giney tingle.
For me Austin vs Vince got old in 1998, I hated it going into 1999 and I still feel like Austin's awesome run was kinda wasted looking back, he didn't really have a real good rival during his 98-99 peak, you had one of the most bad ass characters ever and his rival was the commentator from Superstars. It was cool for a little while but I got bored with it quick and wanted to see him fighting somebody else. For some reason even though I LOVED The Rock in 98 when he turned corporate and feuded with Austin it just didn't work for me. I don't know why. I do love their little feud and match at Mania X-7 but that was after Austin was at his peak imo.
Top 10 Least Favorite Wrestlers Of 1999
1. David Flair 2. Vince Mcmahon 3. Shane Mcmahon 4. Konnan 5. Disco Inferno 6. Viscera 7. Mideon 8. Test 9. Norman Smiley 10. Too Cool
My god Disco Inferno really grinds my gears watching through the tapes now, the moment he put on the Wolfpac red and white NWO shirt it was no longer cool. :lol: Way to go WCW. And I'm mad that they killed Wrath.
The Test and Stephanie Mcmahon wedding storyline was about the breaking point where I stopped watching WWF really for the first time ever in my life(had a pretty good run from 91 to 99). I was all about that ECW.
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Post by Shootist on Feb 7, 2019 17:38:42 GMT
1. Jeff Jarrett 2. Vince Russo 3. Triple H 4. Harris Brothers (Creative Control) 5. Don Callis 6. David Flair 7. Mideon/Naked Mideon (was that 1999?) 8. Viscera 9. Mean Street Posse 10. Justin Credible
Jeff Jarrett was at least buried in the midcard a bit in the WWF. Once he came to WCW though he went up a whole other level of suck with his Chosen One bullshit.
I should have had Creative Control ahead of Triple-H, at least Hunter was competent in the ring. This Memphis reject trifecta (with JJ) was what ruined WCW for me.
Once ECW revealed Don Callis as a part of the Network it also turned me off ECW a bit. Some lower tier manager from the WWF is now your big heel? click Plus it felt like ECW was trying to follow trends instead of setting them with this move.
I liked the Bossman's revamped character in '99, PW and the dirt sheets (Meltzer dumped on him too I believe) have it wrong.
As with most of the rest (Meat, Beaver Cleaver, Disco Inferno, Van Hammer and crew, Berlyn) they were too insignificant and I just flushed my hate of them from my memory I guess.
Who the hell even remotely hated the Godfather in '99? Great midcard act that kept the crowd into it.
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Post by 🤯 on Feb 8, 2019 0:25:04 GMT
1 Nicole Bass 2 David Flair 3 Hak 4 Konnan 5 Disco Inferno 6 Shane Douglas 7 Davey Boy Smith 8 Goldust/Dustin Runnels 9 The Big Boss Man 10 The Godfather
This time around for least favorite I tried to consider amount of exposure as a filtering criteria. If a guy or gal I hated or was otherwise totally apathetic toward never popped up on PPV or ate up RAW air time or kept another wrestler I did like from doing something better because they were occupied in a bullshit angle with a non-fave... Then they escaped my wrath.
Nicole Bass was an offense to Chyna, women's wrestling (even by 1999 standards), and prevented a mild favorite of mine in Val Venis from moving onto bigger and better things as he should've been doing in 1999. Honestly, she probably nabbed my #1 spot though more based on how heinous ugly she was.
David Flair, Konnan, and Disco Inferno are guys I've perpetually not been able to tolerate. And they seemed to dominate more WCW air time than they should've in that order. It takes a David Flair overdose for me to concede that at least whatever Konnan and Disco were doing with their air time wasn't that bad or wasteful by comparison.
Guys like Hak, Bulldog, and Goldust make my list for spells where they undid the love I'd previously had for them. That kind of heartbreak and disappointment hurts. Sellout softcore Sandman seemed like the worst offender, going from legendary ECW original to supporting cast member in WCW's knock-off hardcore division. Bulldog I guess at least had lingering injuries and drug problems as an excuse for his WWF return sucking. Then Goldust wasn't helped in my eyes by dumping Luna Vachon for Blue Meanie. Then going to WCW was a downgrade for him, IMO.
Shane made my list for annoying the fuck outta me in WCW and dragging down or otherwise unimproving the Revolution faction... which I could've been all into otherwise.
Bossman makes my list for having a slow start to the year, being in the running for Undertaker's worst WrestleMania opponent, and then being stuck in a miserable program with Al Snow. The Big Show program at the end of the year is the kind of Bossman I didn't realize I wanted for all of 1999 until it was too late, and too much damage done.
Godfather makes my list for being over enough to warrant lots of air time and even an IC title run... And me HATING his in-ring work, tiring of his gimmick quick, and hating that he won the IC title.
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Post by 🤯 on Feb 8, 2019 0:25:52 GMT
Also, people hating on '99 HHH & JJ makes me sad. I don't understand...
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Post by Baker on Feb 8, 2019 4:09:21 GMT
Least Favorite Wrestlers is always one of my favorite categories. Everything else in this countdown is bound to be all lovey dovey. Here we get to embrace the hate. By all accounts David Flair was terrible and deserved to win but I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a David Flair WCW match. I'm glad 🤯  explained his votes, specifically Godfather & Hak. I'd have brought that up if Shootist didn't. PI has a good point about The Godfather winning the IC title being a shark jumping moment. I know he definitely dropped a few spots on my Favorites list when that happened. And at least my man PI had the decency to call him Hak rather than Sandman. PI makes good points on Goldust and (especially) Bulldog too. It was depressing to see what Davey Boy had become. I expected Shootist to vote for Double J...again. But the Mean Street Posse?!? Sacrilege! Props to the person who voted for Jason. I regret forgetting about him in both 98 & 99. What a waste of space that guy was. Definitely a Bottom 5 act in ECW history. It's crazy that Heyman kept him around so long. I'm all for loyalty but Paul E. was loyal to people who brought absolutely nothing to the table (Jack Victory also comes to mind) while being a jerk to many of his stars. Disco Inferno at his absolute worst is Ric Flair compared to Jason. A quick clerical note before I share my list.....one of our voters had the entire CZW roster at #1. I accepted that vote as I'll accept practically anything, but I did make an executive decision to list them behind the other 10 point getters to bump them out of the Top 10 since I didn't think it was fair to put an entire roster in the prestigious ignominious Top 10. My List
1. Triple H (#5 tie) 2. Chris Jericho 3. Mark Henry 4. Mideon (#5 tie) & Viscera (#7) 5. Meat 6. Big Boss Man (#2) 7. New Age Outlaws (#8) 8. Da Baldies (#9 tie) 9. Axl Rotten 10. Headbanger Mosh/Beaver Cleavage/Chaz Triple H- Fwiw 1999 HHH "only" would have been like #7 or #8 on my 1998 list. Guess I hated more strongly in '98 (no Austin in '99!). But HHH still sucked. I wasn't buying his super push and basically rated him on par with such infamous scrubs as 1998 Shane Douglas & 2000 Justin Credible. As far as I was concerned, Trips was so clearly an overpushed promoter's pet lacking the credibility and in ring chops to be the Attitude Era Ric Flair he was intended to be. I actually had more respect/tolerance for DX leader HHH. Yeah, that sucked too, but at least he was over and not stinking up the main event scene. The WWF Title scene from HHH winning it in August through January 2000 was the worst it had ever been. HHH-Vince-HHH-Show-HHH. Yikes! The IC Title scene (which I'll get to in a minute) was just as bad. It's kind of a wonder I not only survived this period but even liked/loved it. Guess it just goes to show how loyal I was to my beloved WWF back in the day. Anyway, they could give HHH his stable back, feuds with all the big names, wins over most of those guys, and have him marry the boss' daughter, and I still wasn't buying it until HHH leveled up with the help of Mick Foley in January 2000, which I'll cover more in depth next year when we do our 2000 countdown. Chris Jericho- The special kind of suck that is 1999 Chris Jericho deserves a special kind of write up. Poetry time~! A Genius He Is NotHe came from the South To insert a foot in his mouth His promos were cringey I wish Vince were more stingy His catchphrases lame Overhype was to blame A plod-footed clunker Trade him back for Norton, that chunker The man got paid Vince and the fans were played By the man called Y2J Give me Excalibur or Gericho any day Something was amiss With Chyna and Chris Telling their story The IC Title knew faded glory He was known for cool moves Yet what I've seen disproves Another lie from the masses Why do they always like asses? Mark Henry- The Worst of Mark Henry probably came in 1998 and early 2000 when Mae Young gave birth to a hand. I honestly don't remember much from 1999 Mark Henry. Probably because he sucked so much that his segments turned into literal bathroom breaks. He's here basically to make up for the fact that I felt TERRIBLE about leaving him off my 1998 list. #3 might be a little high. Or maybe not. Because he's still Mark Henry. Mideon & Viscera- Mideon was the Worst In The World who I'm convinced was only kept around in a relatively high profile role because he was over with the boys. Viscera was a dated relic from a bygone era. Pretty crazy he was only gone for 3 years. It felt more like 10. Just goes to show how quickly things changed from 96-99. The nicest thing I can say about Viscera is at least they kept him out of the main event scene this time around. I rated these two as the Worst Tag Team of All Time at the time....and still might. Meat- Actually had internet hype due to a strong push in PPW. By now I should have known not to buy into Apter Mag/Internet hype. But nope. Still a fool I was. Anyway, Meat was a bland OVW-style wrestler before that was even a thing. He brought nothing to the table besides a good look. Plus his name was Meat. I think we overlook this far too often. A man named Meat. How bad is that? Plus this Meat was rancid. Bossman- I've come to appreciate 1999 Bossman in hindsight but he was such a dated relic in real time that Big Vis seemed fresh and hip in comparison. Yet, unlike Viscera, this old turd did find himself occasionally in main event storylines and high profile matches. The only things preventing him from an even worse ranking were,... That one time he came out to the classic Bossman theme. ***** pop from my friends and I that turned into a ***** swerve. BBM got all the boos from us that day. And.... Being a next level heel during the Big Show feud. Classic stuff, even if it is also the worst WW F Championship feud of all time. New Age Outlaws- Still terrible, only now terrible in singles form. Thought about breaking them up for that reason but didn't want to waste a spot. Each man did have one positive this year- Road Dogg had some surprisingly good hardcore matches. Billy had an all time great theme. But Billy also got the KOTR overpush while Road Dogg was still Road Dogg. So fuck those guys. Da Baldies- Apparently Paul Heyman was the lone fan of WWF's shitty 1997 Gang Warz storyline. That's the only explanation I can come up with for this dud of an idea. Even before Da Baldies I had an irrational hatred of Skull Von Krush due to a bunch of NYC bus trip fans having the gall to cheer for him over RVD at an ECW Arena show. And also because he sucked. Meaning that hatred was not irrational at all. The rest of the group was no better- PN Newz of WCW "fame." Some guy named Angel. And longtime WWF tv jobber Tony DeVito. UGH! Plus they were called Da Baldies. That's as bad as Meat. Sounds like a villainous gang of ineffectual boobs on a children's tv show. Apparently this was a real NYC street gang. Still doesn't excuse it. They could have given them literally any other real life gang name and it would have been better. Axl Rotten- C&P from a previous post.... Axl was perennially in my ECW Bottom 5 and will likely crack my Least Favorite Wrestlers of 1999 list (I hated having to leave him off in '98). He never did anything for me. I'm obviously not against brawling but I like my brawlers to do a little bit more than walk & stab. Balls had moves. Sandman would try stuff. Plus he took big bumps. Dreamer & the Dudleys were like more polished versions of The Sandman. Raven had those awesomely convoluted finishes. New Jack had charisma and would jump from high places. Plus he was booked in such a way that you weren't forced to see him 'wrestle' for long stretches. Axl had....nothing. He's also hurt by being the self-appointed Hulk Hogan of Maryland wrestling. My local indie, MCW, treated him as this local hero and his shitty rah rah speeches were just as cringey as 'brother' Ian's in IWA Mid South. Axl, Headbanger Mosh, and Gillberg were basically treated as the Hogan, Warrior & Savage of Maryland wrestling in 99-00. Good grief! It's no wonder I went off the promotion and started looking elsewhere for my alternative wrestling fix. Plus Tom Brandi was booked weird. A character like that has to be the top heel. Yet after a while MCW had him playing second fiddle to Romeo Valentino. Who? Exactly. Mosh/Beaver Cleavage/Chaz- See above. And also Beaver Cleavage. That was a real thing! Sad. *I'm not gonna drop another result tonight. Give everybody a day to catch up. Plus I got carried away with this category.... More Hate*I did an unranked Top 25 for the fun of it. Like I said, this is one of my favorite categories. {Spoiler} Chyna & Shane McMahon- I HATED seeing "non wrestlers" win titles. Yes, even My Hero Vince winning the WWF Championship was a major turnoff. BUT since Chyna & Shane were "non wrestlers" I gave them a free pass on my list. They still sucked though. Shane vs. XPac for championship gold was basically a nightmare come true. Chyna vs. JJ was a well booked feud but it still meant I had to see Chyna beat JJ and carry the once-prestigious IC Championship. Then came Chyna/Jericho, and suddenly I was longing for the comparative glory days of Shane/XPac. XPac- He was almost out of the weeds. First he was the lesser of two evils against Shane. Then he became nearly tolerable teaming with my man Kane. But XPac blew it as he is wont to do when DX reunited and he turned on "The Big Red Machine." By the end of '99 I hated wrestling's biggest sleazeball as much as ever and wanted to see Kane get his revenge by destroying this dirt merchant. *I thought about changing my vote at the very last minute from New Age Outlaws to DX just to get Pac & Chyna on the list. I hold all the power! Nobody would ever know! But in the end I decided against it for 'authenticity' reasons. This isn't the first time I thought about cheating in one of these  ....but I never have. Justin Credible- Hated having to leave him off my list for the 2nd straight year. At least somebody voted for him. He was basically just the ECW wrestler I loved to hate. Sometimes in the 'good' way and sometimes in the 'bad' go away heat sort of way. How much did I loathe Aldo? Well, he got me to root for Shane Douglas! Yep. That says it all. Prince Albert & Droz- aka: 600+ pounds of suck. These guys were soooo boring. They had no hook beyond 'alternative lifestyle guys' and I didn't give a crap about their stupid piercings or puking. It's terrible what happened to Droz but I can't pretend I was ever a fan of anything he did. He was the WWF wrestler I was most likely to forget existed. Albert was another guy like Meat who got PPW hype. He actually wasn't bad in the ring but, like I said, sooooo boring in every other way. Sid- Sid sucked.  Yeah, I went there.  Come at me, PW. I can take it. Hated Sid in ECW. Hated Sid getting cheered by ECW fans. It honestly made me lose some respect for them. Sid was everything they claimed to be against- a flaky, stabby, roided up, talentless oaf with no respect for the business who got everything handed to him on a silver platter. He was basically the poster boy for everything bad about mainstream US wrestling. Yet they treated this turd like the second coming. This did not sit well with me. I swore on Strictly ECW that I would turn my back on Sid at The Arena. Now I don't think I ever had the balls to actually go through with my threat (though I don't remember for sure), but I definitely booed the hell out of Sid at The Arena. The lone thing I looked forward to from Sid's otherwise terrible ECW run was him putting over Taz in the battle of guys with three letters in their name before he inevitably went back to stinking up mainstream wrestling rings. But that never even happened. Leave it to Sid to botch the one potential good thing he could have done. Fuck Sid. Now. Then. Forever (unless he's teaming with Spivey, Vader or Kid, of course). Ken Shamrock/Steve Blackman/Dan Severn- Team Charisma. NOT! Blackman was boring. Severn was...boringer. Shamrock was less boring than those two but more pushed. So fuck him too. These three yawners triplehandedly put me off MMA guys in wrestling for like 14 years. Crash Holly- Basically Scrappy Doo in wrestling form. Whoever thought that was a good idea is just as dumb as Paul Heyman for apparently loving the 1997 Gang Warz storyline. Plus Crash killed my man Hardcore's momentum. Never forget. Never forgive. And things would get even worse in 2000 where *spoiler alert* Crash will be my #1 in this category with Justin Credible as #2. Hulk Hogan- 1999 is the year I finally outgrew the whole Evil Empire thing. It was no longer a war. WCW was now rather pathetic.....a decadent empire in deserved decline. But a Least Favorite Wrestler list feels incomplete without The Hulkster. Plus reading about The Fingerpoke of Doom and the stupid WCW fans embracing Hogan when he turned good guy just pissed me off even from afar. Goldberg- Mindless "Goldberg bad!" knee jerk reaction. Jason & Jack Victory for being worthless wastes of space stinking up ECW shows. EDIT: Since my favorite list will have 27 entries I thought it only fair to have 27 here. I do love my symmetry. Spike Dudley & FBI- Sorry ECW buffs. These acts sucked. Spike just got on my nerves. His gimmick was stupid and he won too much for a supposed underdog. Hated him squashing all those old/fat ex-mainstream wrestlers. I got why they were doing it. It's just that Spike Dudley was the worst of all the 911's. I have more respect for him and his crazy bumping ways nowadays but (stupidly) didn't respect his willingness to die in the late 90s. The FBI was a dumb gimmick that should have went away the moment JT Smith left. But nah. They kept this stupid hyper regional gimmick around forever. I didn't like Guido as a 'comedy' character. I liked him even less as a serious competitor. As if I'm gonna suddenly buy into this guy as Tajiri and Crazy's equal after years of being an unfunny undercard comedy character. Gimme a break! Then you had a morbidly obese dude who brought absolutely nothing to the table in Big Sal. He was another one of those "Why is this scrub still employed?" ECW acts in the style of a Jason or a Jack Victory. *Whew! That was fun.
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Post by Kilgore on Feb 8, 2019 5:09:50 GMT
David Flair: It felt like the old territory days of the boss's son (or ace's son) getting overpushed were over and then next thing you knew Shane McMahon and David Flair were fucking wrestling somewhat important matches. David Flair was obviously worse than Shane-O-Mac in every which way. Big Boss Man: I always found it weird that Vince would take finished WCW steals (Boss Man! Davey Boy!) and shoehorn them into main event matches NOBODY asked for, but would make guys like Jericho "pay his dues" and job to Triple H's girlfriend for the first six months. One could say, "Vince made money with Boss Man and Davey Boy prior, so he'd have immediate trust in them!" Except the past tense means they fucking left him. Shouldn't those be the guys he'd fuck with? Anyway, Boss Man was one of the worst examples ever. One, it was just plain ridiculous that WCW jobber would immediately be a big part of the Corporation, feud with Undertaker and get World Title programs. That's bad enough. Then you throw in the specifics of what Boss Man was doing, some of the worst Attitude Era Wrestlecrap known to man and there are no words. Konnan: I was never a huge Konnan fan (I liked him briefly when he first turned into the Mexican Gangster), but I was a sort of Konnan apologist. He had cool moves, he had charisma, and his tired catchphrases were tired because they were at least over at one point, more than most could say. I thought the internet was hard on him. Until 1999. Then I got it. The internet was a step ahead of me on K-Dawg. Disco Inferno: Same thing I always say about DI, I can be talked into him being a fun midcard jobber type with a gimmick (although I was never personally having fun), but the second you start pushing this asshole, you've gone too fucking far. Mideon: I forgot about Mideon. He obviously sucked, but I think the lack of any push whatsoever makes him somewhat forgivable. Triple H: The first year I didn't hate Triple H, so the opposite for me. The My Time JR interview sold me. I was in. Also, and this will seem incomprehensible to most, but Triple H was an internet darling in 1999. Stone Cold and The Rock had heat and were starting to be portrayed as prima donnas on wrestling websites and Triple H was the first to enter the building, last to leave, blue collar hero of internet wrestling fans. People were furious Stone Cold didn't do the favor at SummerSlam. This no doubt softened me on Triple H. "He works hard! His gimmick doesn't suck anymore!" Viscera: Fuck. I forgot about him too. Absolutely worthless. New Age Outlaws:I actually spared the NAO this time. The breakup made me soften on them a little. Plus Billy Gunn sucking gave us that awesome Rock promo, so I consider this all a net positive. Da Baldies: They obviously sucked, but the bump that Vic Grimes would inevitably take in every match made them just bearable. Hollywood Hogan: Hogan's run from like April 1999 to Bash at the Beach 2000 is all a blur to me. Once the nWo had finally run its course for good there really was no need for him anymore. It's a shame, but it happens. Going back to the Yellow and Red was inevitable, but it felt like less of a big deal than you would have once thought. It had to happen in the WWF to really matter, I think. Nicole Bass: Yeah, I get it. This one seems mean, though. Jeff Jarrett: I would have put him on a most improved list, so disagree. ---- CZW Roster: I first read this as XPW Roster, and I was like, "Yeah, fuck those guy!" CZW at least gave us some cool gifs. Simon Diamond: What are you doing, Paul E? All of sudden there's like 1980s heels on ECW television. Unironically. It was such a bummer. DOA/Harris Brothers/Creative Control: I guess it was a pretty bad sign when the Russo Era in WCW pretty much began with a fucking Harris Brothers push. Jason: Yes, completely worthless, but it's not like he was being pushed. Would never think to vote for him. Evan Karagias: I voted for this asshole as an opposite of the Mideons and Jasons of the world. WCW had the greatest Cruiserweight roster EVER, and yet they kept trying to make this anti-charismatic, no good wrestler, male stripper asshole a thing. He was Cruiserweight Champion in 1999! He wrestled Randy Savage and didn't lose! More venom for these types of guys. Meng: I voted for this guy and I'd do it again. I don't care how many Bill Brasky bullshit stories I hear about Meng, he has always sucked. WCW could have had a roster of Raven, Sandman, Bam Bam Bigelow, Shane Douglas, Terry Funk and they create a Hardcore Title for Meng and fucking Norman Smiley to fight over. Norman Smiley: Yeah, this asshole. I'm the only one? Shane Douglas: I really enjoyed the nostalgic final run of The Franchise in ECW. The WCW run was another story. One of my favorite things ever, and I wouldn't even know how to find it, but I distinctly remember a Revolution promo where Douglas was acting as the hype man, and he was like are you hear for Chris Benoit? Crowd goes wild. Dean Malenko? Yay! Perry Saturn? Yay! The Franchise? Booooooo. The WCW audience didn't give a shit about some guy who appeared to be riding the coattails of dudes that had already been there FOR YEARS, doing the dirty work. Brian Knobbs: I'm the only one part 2? Brian Knobbs sucked in 1993. Any talking yourself into Brian Knobbs as a mainstream wrestling version of an ECW guy was over by 1996 the very latest. We're in 1999 now. He's still there. He's getting pushed in the Hardcore Division. Pretty hard. Ernest "The Cat" Miller: I'm the only one part 3? I have no idea if it's true that Ernest Miller was teaching Eric Bischoff's son some fakeass karate and Bischoff thought he was some legit killer and decided that he needed to be in WCW, but I kind of do know because what else would explain this? There could be no other explanation. Lenny Lane: This guy should have been released the day Jericho signed with the WWF. British Bulldog: Bulldog in 1999 was such a bummer. Goldust: I believe Goldust had the privilege of sucking in both federations in 1999, which unless you're Lord Steven Regal, I have an odd respect for the accomplishment. Fabulous Moolah: I'm the only one part 4? This was worse than Mideon, right? It was Mae Young without the bumps. Mean Street Posse: The Mean Street Posse made my favorite tag team list, so I disagree clearly, and on behalf of Joey Abs' perfect vertical suplex am very offended. {Spoiler}
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Post by Shootist on Feb 8, 2019 7:38:58 GMT
I'm starting to align myself with Kilgore with regards to Meng. I would have loved to have seen him do what I'm sure would be a one off in MMA like Bigelow and have his ass handed to him. These tough guy stories from all the boys are getting to be ridiculous. Plus I'm tired of every shoot having that inevitable question of how tough Meng was. I don't think he sucked as a pro wrestler though as he did project a good tough guy aura. His outside the ring exploits though are as carny as it gets. The Cat made my '98 list, I think his 99 run was more of a blur so he got a reprieve. Guys like Smiley and Knobbs had their hardcore niche so I guess they escaped a lot of my hate. Smiley though especially was a groaner though thinking back. A foreshadowing of what gets over today, he would have been perfect in The New Day.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2019 15:49:49 GMT
#1 most improved ties with my #1 feud. Super Crazy vs Tajiri. it was fun watching it go from fun sporty feud to hate filled bloodbaths. Really peaked in early 2000 though with the Mexican Death Match and match where Tajiri wins the title. Some of Tajiri's best matches came from before he found his character, but it was so interesting seeing him develop and get increasingly sadistic. Only wish his matches with Taz could've gone on father (more on that later)
Hardy's/E+C are givens seeing how far they went in the year. Rhino was just another underneath guy against people like Taz, Awesome, and Crazy. he'd have a nice move hear and there, but it was a match with Sabu that sold me on him and from there started feuding with Sandman and was on his way to being the next top heel.
Corino, Kash, and Doring/Roadkill still had a long way to go at the end of the year, but they came a long way throughout the year. was fun watching Hardcore Holly develop his character.
Stupidly left RVD/Lynn off of my list. I very much viewed Van Dam as the heel while routing for Jerry every time. Love RVD, but he was always a heel to me until sometime in 2000, and unless he was against a Dudley, I was probably routing for the opponent while popping for all his crazy spots. Really thought Balls was gonna take the title at Anarchy Rules.
I'll cover least favorites later.
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Post by Big Pete on Feb 8, 2019 17:15:35 GMT
FeudsThis category was a prisoner of the 1-10 system. I had Vince/Austin and Rock/Mankind as my 1 and 2 respectively, but in reality nothing came close to Vince/Austin. They built that match up for over a year and it was better than anybody'd wildest expectations. Nobody knew Vince could perform in the ring, for all we knew, he was John du Pont, a guy with more dollars than sense. Come show-time, Vince shocked the world and produced one of the better main events of 1999. It was carefully choreographed and Vince spent more time bumping than dishing out offence, but considering the potential calamity it had to be considered a slam dunk. Rock-Mankind: After 1998, it was official, The Rock was one of the most entertaining performers to ever grace a Pro Wrestling ring. On the microphone he was electric and very few stars past or present could command the camera like The Rock. The only question that remained was his ability in the ring. The Rock had shown on occassion that he could hold up his end of the bargain, but he'd yet to demonstrate that mean streak, something that could create a visceral reaction. Enter Mankind, one of the most generous performers in the history of the business and the two put on one of the most violent matches in WWF History, the I Quit Match from the Royal Rumble. The match has become immortalised in Barry Blaustein's 1999 documentary Beyond The Mat, where audiences learned that Mick performed the match infront of his wife and two young children, but even live it was a tough match to stomach. As grotesque as the match was, it achieved it's goal of cementing Rock as a bonafide main event star and somebody who could handle himself against Stone Cold Steve Austin. RVD-Lynn: Jerry Lynn was a journeyman wrestler who had a good reputation among the boys, but had yet to get over with the paying audience. He was somebody who could fill an undercard, but there weren't many fans around that time who'd pay to watch him wrestle or could even name you Jerry Lynn's Top Five matches. This changed when ECW's biggest star and most exciting in-ring talent Rob Van Dam hand-picked Jerry Lynn to be his opponent at ECW Living Dangerously 99. The pair tore the house down, with Jerry Lynn getting the better of Rob Van Dam over the course of 20 minutes. In a rare finish, senior official Jim Finnegan was set to award the ECW World Television Championship to Jerry Lynn by decision, but Jerry graciously accepted Rob's challenge to five more minutes. Jerry walked away without the title, but won plenty of fans along the way. The two would continue to have amazing matches and when Extreme Championship Wrestling had the opportunity to launch their national television show, it was a Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn match they chose to highlight. It was a rivalry that was built on mutual respect and one of the rare instances where coming up short actually achieved more than a straightforward win would have. Tajiri-Super Crazy - ECW fans are remembered as being the most bloodthirsty, immature and entitled fanbase in the history of Pro Wrestling. It's a reputation that's hardly warranted, especially when you consider the case of Tajiri or Super Crazy. If this match took place in any other promotion around this time, it would have been torn to shreds. However, the ECW fans recognise the talent and effort both performers put in and the more they got into the matches, the better the matches became. This was as text-book as Pro Wrestling gets, but both men proved when executed well, fans will respond well to a series of matches. Tommy Dreamer and Friends vs. The Impact Players - On the surface, Lance Storm versus Tommy Dreamer doesn't sound like anything special. Sure, they were capable of having good matches, but the every-man versus the ultra serious athlete seemed very bland on paper. Then something miraculous happened, Lance Storm embraced his ultra serious character and began developing a routine that turned his wooden promos into comedic gold. The highlight of the feud was Lance and Tommy participating in a piss-test. Drug testing was a hot-button topic among wrestling fans and there was always a curiosity around Storm's physique. The way the segment played out was amazing wrestling, with Lance Storm paying for his smugness with a face full of piss. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock was one of those feuds you can trace to the beginning stages of the Attitude Era all the way through to the end of Austin's career, and for that reason, it's quite rightfully remembered as one of the greatest feuds of all-time. After their initial meeting around the latter stages of 1997, the two meet again, with The Rock receiving the boss' rubber stamp and coming into his own as the performer. The build up to their Wrestlemania match was in a word unfocused. After running interference at St Valentine Days Massacre, Paul 'The Big Show' White became Austin's most logical opponent and stole a lot of attention away from The Rock. The match became less about Rock and Austin and became more about the referee, taking away from the grandeur of their match. The WWF redeemed this misdemeanour at Backlash where the two had a fierce rivalry that played on their last rivalry around December of 97. In a lot of ways, the rematch proved to be even better than the Wrestlemania main event, with the more personal rivalry and the odds being stacked firmly against Stone Cold Steve Austin. It's an opinion that Austin shares. On his DVD-set The Legacy of Steve Austin, Steve revealed the emotional toil of going through a bitter divorce and how embarrassed he was to forget his trademark vest for the biggest match of the year. It was a blemish that in a lot of ways, reflected the match and highlighted why the Backlash match was the superior of the two. Raven & Saturn vs. Benoit & Malenko vs. Kidman & Mysterio Jr - A lot has been made of WCW's tremendous roster and how underutilised it was. WCW had the best performers in the world, yet they were rarely figured into major angles or given a more prominent role, no matter how into the matches the fans were. This changed in 1999 when Kevin Nash rejuvenated the tag team division by placing the best workers on the roster into intertwinding storylines with plenty of television time to work compelling matches. On a show that was becoming increasingly difficult to follow or get invested in, the WCW Tag Team division was a highlight that holds up to this day. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz - This is the story of four people all around the same age, living their dream and doing whatever it took to gain acceptance. Everytime these two stepped into the ring they displayed tremendous chemistry, but all four were so young, they couldn't establish a connection with the audience. This changed at No Mercy in one of the most creative and dangerous matches put together. Both teams were willing to try things that hadn't been attempted on international television before and while some of it wasn't thought out enough, the majority of their spots captured the hearts of the audience and when their 16 minute match was over you knew they had given it their all. As a fan, I found it impossible to be a fan of both sides, and I feel this is true for a lot of fans. There's a lot of Hardy Boyz fans who can't stand Edge & Christian and vice versa. It was the Oasis vs. Blur, Nirvana vs. Pearl Jam of Pro Wrestling - it's what's missing now. Their rivalry was so strong, the WWF were able to book a lot of their undercard around their tag division, a thought that hadn't felt likely since the 80s. My List FeudsStone Cold Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon The Rock vs. Mankind Triple H vs. Vince McMahon Tajiri vs. Super Crazy Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boyz Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr & Billy Kidman Lance Storm vs. Tommy Dreamer Shane McMahon vs. Test I'll skip the Dudley Boyz vs. Spike and co. I've heard good things about their Hardcore TV match, but their PPV impressions didn't leave a strong enough impression. HHH vs. Vince McMahon is the stand-out entry from my list, largely because the finish of Armaggeddon 99 was the most impressionable moment of the year. The moment Stephanie McMahon kissed Triple H and revealed she was no longer daddy's little girl no more was when Pro Wrestling achieved something that would have made most soap operas jealous. It was scandalous, it was unthinkable and yet it struck a chord that would ensure the WWF would maintain their reign as the best television show in all of Professional Wrestling. Least Favourite
David Flair - I didn't consider any non-wrestlers for these categories, so David was spared. I feel bad for David, clearly he was only there because of nepotism, he didn't have the experience nor the talent to be a professional. Things only went from bad to worse when Vince Russo got involved. Russo was a fan of booking Pro Wrestling soap operas and enjoyed the idea of David as the troubled son of Ric Flair. Russo enjoyed it so much, he made it a prominent part of the show and even booked a David Flair vs. Kimberly Page intergender match where Kimberly propositioned David on PPV. While it's unfair to blame bad writing on David, bad writing or not, he didn't deserve to be on TV. Big Boss Man - Boss Man was one of those talents I wanted to believe was better than my initial impression. I thought maybe it was a case of being worked by a great heel and I just couldn't see the amazing talent for what it was. All these years later, no, Boss Man was just past it. No other wrestler had a worst track record than Boss Man. He had four of the worst matches of 1999 including his effort against the Road Dogg at the Royal Rumble, his match against Mideon at St Valentines Day Massacre, his train wreck against The Undertaker and another train wreck against Al Snow at Unforgiven. It's sad that his best rivalry was the entertaining but crappy feud against The Big Show. Boss Man was a respected performer, but 1999 was a calamity of errors. Konnan - I'm having a difficult time remembering anything note-worthy. He was the figurehead of two notoriously bad stables in the No Limit Soldiers and the Filthy Animals, but I don't recall that being on him. Perhaps he's here because of that rap video? Now, I can get behind that. WCW ran that video to death, and Konnan did nothing to justify the airplay. Disco Inferno - Disco just has that way with people. That Italian mobster storyline was terrible and he was just another in a long-line that ruined the appeal of the Cruiserweight division. One thing I will give Disco is his parody of Konnan's rap was a career highlight. Mideon - He's one of those guys that flies under the radar, but he still had three singles matches on PPV, so that's three times where Vince felt he was worth your hard earned money. The truth is, Mideon was a stiff in the ring incapable of putting together one entertaining segment. His crowning achievement was his impression of Mick and even that wouldn't take off until the early stages of 2000. Triple H - HHH is just naturally dislikeable. It's strange that I find myself as a HHH apologist, but I thought when it was all said and done, HHH proved himself as a main event talent this year and a performer the fans loved to hate. I will say that HHH had more turns at bat than any other performer at his skill level and there were some big swings and misses through out the year. The most notable was at Backlash where he gave X-Pac his worst match of the year. Viscera - Vis had a good look and surprisingly strong spin-kick, that's where it began and ended. I can't remember a slower performer, everything he did appeared to be in slow motion and he was often kept in very small roles. Every so often, Vis would get a push out of nowhere but it never lasted. You have to wonder why McMahon bothered to bring him back. It must have been Taker's call. The New Age Outlaws - I feel like this should just be Billy Gunn. As much as Road Dogg was a one-trick pony, the WWF recognised that and rarely put him in a position of prominence. Meanwhile Billy Gunn was set to be the next Rock and HHH to be elevated up the card and blew every opportunity. The best thing he did was co-sign himself into becoming a verb in one of Edge's best promos. Hulk Hogan - I feel it's important to highlight the change in persona. Hollywood Hogan was one of the best heel personas of all-time. Finally the fans could vent their frustrations at Hogan lying to them about the steroid scandal and being an egomaniac. Making himself the figurehead of the Kliq, the biggest group of jerks in all of Pro Wrestling, was a magical touch and something that most likely will never be repeated in Pro Wrestling. It eventually ran it's course, and Hogan either had to disappear or evolve. Instead, Hogan wound back the clock, pretended that nothing happened and based the entire product around him. It was a move that sent WCW back to the stone ages and WCW would never recover. Jeff Jarrett - It's a tale of two stints. In the WWF, Jeff had finally found his place as a chauvenist who wasn't beyond using his valet to further his own career. The gimmick evolved and reached it's natural conclusion with Chyna embarrassing him on PPV. Jump to WCW, Jeff is now a major character on the show whose whole gimmick was to remind fans that what they were watching was fake and he was close with Russo ergo he had the chosen one and had the stroke now. It was an awful meta character that ensured most of his matches were train-wrecks and did nothing to draw interest. In Jeff's defence, he still worked hard where he could, but the character sucked. If it wasn't for his rivalry with Benoit, it would be fair to say his run that year was ireedeemable.
Least Favourites Hulk Hogan Buff Bagwell Big Bossman Rick Steiner Val Venis Evan Karaigias Lenny Lane Mideon Van Hammer Berlyn
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Post by Shootist on Feb 8, 2019 17:56:01 GMT
I thought the rap video Konnan did was in 1998 for the Wolfpac. Or did he do another one in '99? 1999 WCW is mostly a huge gap in my memory other than the Jarrett/Hogan/Creative Control stuff. Even the highly praised tag team division didn't leave that much of an impression on me I guess. All that Filthy Animals/No Limit Soldier crap would have had a legit shot at my top 10 had I remembered them.
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Post by Baker on Feb 9, 2019 0:30:38 GMT
Norman Smiley: Yeah, this asshole. I'm the only one? Brian Knobbs: I'm the only one part 2? Brian Knobbs sucked in 1993. Any talking yourself into Brian Knobbs as a mainstream wrestling version of an ECW guy was over by 1996 the very latest. We're in 1999 now. He's still there. He's getting pushed in the Hardcore Division. Pretty hard. Ernest "The Cat" Miller: I'm the only one part 3? I have no idea if it's true that Ernest Miller was teaching Eric Bischoff's son some fakeass karate and Bischoff thought he was some legit killer and decided that he needed to be in WCW, but I kind of do know because what else would explain this? There could be no other explanation. Fabulous Moolah: I'm the only one part 4? This was worse than Mideon, right? It was Mae Young without the bumps. I double checked all these just to be sure. One other voter had Smiley near the bottom of their list but my math was correct. You were indeed the only voter for the other three. So I had Best Shows mostly complete when I realized I hadn't taken shinobimusashi 's edits into account. DAMMIT! Now I'm annoyed and Best Shows won't be dropping tonight. Maybe I'll do Tag Teams instead if I get back in the mood.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 1:50:49 GMT
Baker I'm sorry bubba. Yeah Kilgore I hated Norman Smiley too, he made the list, I did not want to see that motherfucker on my TV. Lenny Lane was another one. Back in the day I also really hated Scott Norton and Ernest Miller but I've done a complete 180 on both, LOVE Scott Norton and also have grown to kinda like The Cat, he's got this TBS action movie thing going on about him, at least early on in his push was ok. Norton and Miller had a match on Nitro on one of the early February 99 tapes I watched recently and it was surprisingly entertaining, Norton just mauls Miller in a sloppy brawl fight type of match that went longer than a usual Nitro match, I thought it was fun. Next time I see 🤯 though he's getting a stunner for talking shit about Hak. Hak Rules! :lol:
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Post by Baker on Feb 9, 2019 5:37:38 GMT
No big surprises here. 9/10ths of the Top 10 made my own list with the only omission being the Filthy Animals in favor of the New Age Outlaws, who I always seem to be the high PW vote on.
This was a pretty deep field. Certainly much deeper than '98. Yet there was no clear cut #1 due to not a single team being a complete package for the entire year.
My List
1. Dudley Boyz (#1) 2. Hardy Boyz (#2) 3. Acolytes (#6) 4. Horsemen (#4) 5. Edge & Christian (#3) 6. Impact Players (#5) 7. Flock (#8) 8. New Age Outlaws 9. Kane & XPac (#7) 10. Rock & Sock Connection (#10)
While they had a rocky first few months in WWF, the Dudleys earned the #1 spot with a monster 8 months in ECW where they were every bit as important as Taz & RVD as the promotion's lead heels. Damn. Taz-RVD-Dudleys. What a murderer's row of champions that was. The Duds kicked off the year with a bang by calling out Public Enemy in a short-lived thing I was way into. Then came a renewal of their longtime wars the babyface brawling brigade of Balls/Spike/New Jack/Axl. They eventually won THEIR tag titles back from RVD & Sabu and had good matches with Balls & Spike before dropping the belts on their way out to Tommy Dreamer and a returning Raven in what would have been ECW's Moment of the Year had Sandman not returned 2 months later. Some people might have thought the Duds were getting stale in ECW but they were fresh as ever to me since I only got to see them on tape and PPV before 1999. Best finisher in the biz. I can't say with 100% certainty that they were THE best heels in the biz because their were a lot of great heels in 1999, but they're definitely in the running for that accolade as well. The one thing I regret is never getting a heel vs. heel 'passing the torch' feud with the Impact Players on their way out. It was teased at their last(?) ECW Arena appearance but they never went all the way with it. After a rough start, (I think) they found their footing in WWF before the year was out, and would build on that to have a monster 2000.Â
Hardys made great strides in 1999. They always had the skillz. In '99 it all came together. They changed their look and had a flukish tag title win early in the year but didn't really get over until the Edge & Christian feud late in the year. They were made men from that point on and it set them up for a monster 2000.Â
Acolytes were probably pushed harder than their overness warranted but I wasn't complaining since they were one of my favorite in ring acts of 1999. Won a few tag titles. Had good matches. May or may not have found their winning APA gimmick before the year concluded.
Horsemen brought tag team wrestling back to WCW by winning the reinstated tag titles early in the year. Then had memorable matches/feuds with the (ex)Flock and Filthy Animals. Were hugely over as faces and equally over as heels just a few short months later. Not bad for a pair of Vanilla Midgets.
Edge & Christian had a slow and steady rise up the card throughout the year culminating with the Hardy Boyz feud that turned them into bona fide superstars. I did punish them a little for their lack of championship gold.Â
Impact Players- For the 100th time they were ECW's version of the New Age Outlaws in that they were greater than the sum of their parts. Individually both men were lacking something. But they complimented each other so well. Became main event players. Had a great feud with Tommy & Friends. Though as with Edge & Christian I punished them a little for their lack of championship success.
Raven & Saturn- Part of that great 3 way tag feud with the Horsemen & Filthy Animals. Were hugely over as babyfaces for a little while there. They're below Benoit & Malenko because the Horsemen broke out a little earlier as a team.
New Age Outlaws- Were separated for most of the year but picked up a few more tag title wins down the stretch. Maybe I overrated their star power but I definitely viewed them as a big deal, no matter how bad they may have been at most aspects of wrestling.
Kane & XPac- They're this 'low' because they weren't a 'real' team. Yet if I had to guess I'd say they held the tag titles longer than any other WWF unit this year. Pretty cool odd couple duo that came dangerously close to having me tolerate X-Pac. I liked the storyline where XPac started doubting himself. Shame it had to end the way it did. Stupid X-Pac.....
Rock & Sock Connection- One of the most fondly remembered short-lived/odd couple teams in wrestling history. Two of the best talkers and most charismatic guys the business has ever seen. Had a very famous segment. Won the tag titles a time or two.
Fwiw Owen & Jarrett were my last cut. Hated having to leave them off but I just couldn't find the room. Rey & Kidman would have been my #12 due to their involvement in that killer 3 way WCW tag feud. Another cool thing about that feud was how each duo represented a different style of wrestling. Horsemen were technicians. Flock were brawlers. Filthy Animals were flyers. Then The Triad added another dimension with the numbers game. But by that point they had kind of ruined it by consolidating two cool teams with history together into one seemingly random unit in Benoit & Saturn
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 13:41:33 GMT
Honestly I had a hard time with the tag team list. I'm wondering why in the world I put the Hardyz over the Duds since the Dudleyz dominated 99. Their run in ECW that year was easily their peak prime imo. This was my list:
1. Hardy Boyz 2. Dudley Boys 3. Edge/Christian 4. Impact Players 5. Acolytes 6. Benoit & Malenko 7. Balls & Spike 8. Balls & Axl 9. Nova & Chris Chetti 10. Doring & Roadkill
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 13:50:43 GMT
tag teams was probably the section I was most excited about. Impact Players were my #1. similar to the eliminators 3 years earlier, you could probably count on one hand the amount of really good, worth going out of you're way for matches by them, but they were just such a good unit, involved in so many important story lines and such great heels that they're up there. Dudley's were a close #2. I'd say it was when they put Balls through a flaming table and then kicked off their ultimate feud with him and Spike that they surpassed the Public Enemy or at least became equal to them from a strictly ECW standpoint. But the Impact Players to me were just a notch above them and stepped up when they left. That being said, I thought their were some cool moments to the first few months of the Dudleys WWF run. Better they worked their way up to the awesome Royal Rumble 2000 match, winning the tag titles in February, and had the Wrestle mania match than be put in the spotlight right away. there'd be some good matches against Edge/Christian and Hardy's I think usually on Smackdown here and there in the early months. I have a soft spot for Dudleys vs Mankind and Dude Love (stevie) and they got the rub of breaking up Kane/X-pac.
As glad as I am that Dudleys got to break them up instead of NAO, they shouldn't have separated that team that early. Good way to give an upcoming team some steam; imagine if WCW gave that steam to a rising team for breaking up the Steiners instead of the growing stale Outsiders. But I would've loved to see Kane/X pac mix it up with Hardy's, Edge/christian, bigger matches with the Dudleys. That was like the feel good unlikely pairing of the summer and breaking them up ruined X pac and Kane was never the same since.
Balls/Spike was another feel good unlikely pairing with a big underdog win and some brutal matches. I'll always love the one they had with Axl and New Jack.
the Raven/Saturn pairing was honestly the last cool thing Saturn did and I enjoyed every segment of the 3 way feud they had.
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Post by bodyslam on Feb 10, 2019 17:26:42 GMT
Ernest "The Cat" Miller: I'm the only one part 3? I have no idea if it's true that Ernest Miller was teaching Eric Bischoff's son some fakeass karate and Bischoff thought he was some legit killer and decided that he needed to be in WCW, but I kind of do know because what else would explain this? There could be no other explanation. I always enjoyed the Cat. I thought he was great on the mic and knew how to work the crowd with it. Plus no one came to see the Cat wrestle. They came to see the Cat dance. Somebody call my momma because someone about to get whoop.
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