Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 3, 2019 1:01:17 GMT
The deadline has passed and the results are (mostly) tallied. Thanks to shinobimusashi 🤯 Big Pete Shootist Kilgore and @fisto for voting. Throw in myself and that makes 7. Not everybody voted in every category. So I'll post the categories with fewer voters first while working my way up to the categories all 7 of us voted on. Gonna shoot for one reveal per day. First batch of results should be up later tonight.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 2:56:52 GMT
Very interested in seeing the results for this one. I have worked 13 consecutive days so I have not had any time for anything lately otherwise I would have busted out themes and finishers lists. Also didn't get to watch a few matches that where mentioned in the other thread but ran out of time. I did make a minor edit for my top 10 shows. Lets get it on
Edit: great way to set the mood with that almanac, instant nostalgia rush right there seeing that. I wanted one so bad for years, finally got one of my friends to copy the 97 one page by page on his mom's copy machine, I punched holes and arranged it in a binder it was fucking awesome. But I had money to buy the 99 one when it came out it was glorious to have that.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Feb 3, 2019 4:57:14 GMT
I wasn't sure if this was an actual category or not. It seemed like it came onto the radar screen after most of my list finalizing was finalized. If I'd done a list for this one, it probably would've looked very similar to the Top 10 overall. Would probably go:
The Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian, The Acolytes, Shane McMahon, Chyna, Triple H, Rikishi, Hardcore Holly, Test, and Jerry Lynn.
|
|
Junior Member
2,032 POSTS & 3,762 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Feb 3, 2019 5:49:06 GMT
I wasn't sure if this was an actual category or not. It seemed like it came onto the radar screen after most of my list finalizing was finalized. If I'd done a list for this one, it probably would've looked very similar to the Top 10 overall. Would probably go: The Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian, The Acolytes, Shane McMahon, Chyna, Triple H, Rikishi, Hardcore Holly, Test, and Jerry Lynn. I would have made one too, but it wouldn't have looked all that different from the final list, so luckily my missing list doesn't matter. I would have even voted for Jeff Jarrett too, as his last two or three months in the WWF and first month in WCW was literally the only time I gave a shit about him before or since.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Feb 3, 2019 5:57:51 GMT
I wasn't sure if this was an actual category or not. It seemed like it came onto the radar screen after most of my list finalizing was finalized. If I'd done a list for this one, it probably would've looked very similar to the Top 10 overall. Would probably go: The Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian, The Acolytes, Shane McMahon, Chyna, Triple H, Rikishi, Hardcore Holly, Test, and Jerry Lynn. I would have made one too, but it wouldn't have looked all that different from the final list, so luckily my missing list doesn't matter. I would have even voted for Jeff Jarrett too, as his last two or three months in the WWF and first month in WCW was literally the only time I gave a shit about him before or since. Fuck, you're totally right about Jarrett. Maybe I'll give him Lynn's spot on my list then. In fact, Jarrett should probably be in the Top 5 of my list considering his year over year progression from virtually zero fucks given in 1998 to digging his tag team with Owen and then his solid IC run in 1999.
|
|
Junior Member
2,032 POSTS & 3,762 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Feb 3, 2019 6:01:00 GMT
I would have made one too, but it wouldn't have looked all that different from the final list, so luckily my missing list doesn't matter. I would have even voted for Jeff Jarrett too, as his last two or three months in the WWF and first month in WCW was literally the only time I gave a shit about him before or since. Fuck, you're totally right about Jarrett. Maybe I'll give him Lynn's spot on my list then. In fact, Jarrett should probably be in the Top 5 of my list considering his year over year progression from virtually zero fucks given in 1998 to digging his tag team with Owen and then his solid IC run in 1999. Not over Lynn! Lynn arguably came even further! Curtain jerker in ECW to people wanting him to beat RVD. RVD! The most over human being on the planet. While Austin and The Rock are peaking!
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Feb 3, 2019 6:08:17 GMT
Fuck, you're totally right about Jarrett. Maybe I'll give him Lynn's spot on my list then. In fact, Jarrett should probably be in the Top 5 of my list considering his year over year progression from virtually zero fucks given in 1998 to digging his tag team with Owen and then his solid IC run in 1999. Not over Lynn! Lynn arguably came even further! Curtain jerker in ECW to people wanting him to beat RVD. RVD! The most over human being on the planet. While Austin and The Rock are peaking! Fine! But I have a real hard time bumping my boys Test and Hardcore off the list...
|
|
Junior Member
2,032 POSTS & 3,762 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Feb 3, 2019 6:18:36 GMT
Not over Lynn! Lynn arguably came even further! Curtain jerker in ECW to people wanting him to beat RVD. RVD! The most over human being on the planet. While Austin and The Rock are peaking! Fine! But I have a real hard time bumping my boys Test and Hardcore off the list... Acolytes didn't become the APA until 2000. They were just mooching off the Hardys and E&C in 1999.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Feb 3, 2019 6:46:52 GMT
Fine! But I have a real hard time bumping my boys Test and Hardcore off the list... Acolytes didn't become the APA until 2000. They were just mooching off the Hardys and E&C in 1999. Yeah, but I was a mark for the tandem even then. I bought them as legit contenders who could mix it up with the likes of X-Pac/Kane and Undertaker/Big Show. And I had no idea I'd be that into them when they first popped up as a random pairing in late 98. So as a fanboy, they don't drop out of my top ten.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 3, 2019 10:26:57 GMT
The Hardy Boyz are no-brainers for this list. From pony-tailed canary yellow curtain jerkers to bonafide attractions, the Hardy Boyz were the wave of the future.
It was easy to lump Edge & Christian together, but in hindsight I had them too high. They were still the same promising tag team they were in 98, they just had more things to add to their CV. As performers, they wouldn't improve until they turned heel in 2000.
What I enjoyed about Tajiri's 99 is how simply it came together. He stole the show at Guilty As Charged with Super Crazy, so Paul E just kept running the same match over and over again to the point where both guys were over. As soon as Tajiri was over with the audience, they invested more into the character, they changed the look, gave him a personality and some different friends to hang out with and Tajiri went onto become one of the most successful Japanese wrestlers in the WWE.
Lynn was an accomplished journeyman who was good enough to be apart of any promotion, but as of yet had to make his mark. His matches with the Lightening Kid felt like a lifetime ago and it seemed destined he was going to be an underneath guy in any promotion. Then in '98, he had a stellar TV match with RVD, which led to RVD requesting the two to face off on PPV and the rest is history. What made those matches is that RVD is great at selling two moves - DDTs and Piledrivers, which just so happen to be Lynn's specialty. RVD made Lynn look like an even better version of himself at Living Dangerously and from that point on, Lynn has the respect of the ECW audience. On the back of those matches, he was able to enjoy another decade plus working the independants and has to be considered one of the better independant wrestlers of all-time.
Holly was another one of those guys who was over with the boys, but hadn't found his character. He's also a good example of what happens when you strip away the gimmicks and just let Hardcore be himself. Bombastic Bob and Sparky Plugg were death sentences, so by proxy the decision to let Bob be a stiff no nonsense worker was going to make him more popular. He found a good dance partner in Al Snow, they complimented each other nicely and he was able to transition that into a Tag Team championship run. It only occurred to me the other day, but it's amazing how this one run ultimately led to Mona of WCW fame becoming the most successful member of the family.
Rikishi was one of those gimmicks that got really over really quickly. It should have died a death, but Fatu was so good at his craft that he was able to make a lasting impression in what started as a minor role. The secret to the character is that Rikishi understood his strengths. He had a very good side-kick and his piledriver looked like death, so he built on those two pillars. The decision to pair him with Too Cool was a masterstroke, and was a good example of the cheerleader effect in action. By pairing him with two dorks, it made Rikishi look cool by comparison and the secret to becoming a main event act is coolness.
As far as career moves go, nobody made more strides than HHH did in 99. He became the face of an incredibly hot promotion and starred in an angle that endures to this very day. As he was booked stronger, he found more confidence on the microphone and all the tweaks they made along the way only served to make him a stronger act. Decisions like ditching the long trunks, wetting his hair, changing his theme music, incorporating the sledge hammer, getting rid of Chyna, hooking up with Stephanie, changing his monicker etc. made him a bigger star and made that transition from a babyface territory to a heel territory that more palatable.
Like Tajiri, Corino and Rhino found strength in numbers and the more wins they got under their belts, the more they improved as performers. Corino has one of the best minds for the business and it's great to see that recognised at NXT. Meanwhile Rhino was one of the better power guys coming through the business and the decision to take Goldberg's spear and make it the finisher was a good 5 or so years ahead of it's time, it's amazing how much that move benefited him and the industry. Rhino to his credit hit the move as well, if not better than Bill ever did.
My list:
Most Improved Triple H Jeff Hardy Edge Matt Hardy Christian Jerry Lynn Tajiri Super Crazy Rikishi Blitzkrieg
Super Crazy was a surprise omission. As Super Loco he was just another generic luchadore who would occassionaly appear on WWF TV from time to time. The move to ECW gave him the platform to create a cult following and he was arguably the most consistent performer on the roster.
Blitzkrieg would have been a better shout-out for rookie of the year, but he deserved some level of recognition. From what I've heard Blitzkrieg was your typical sloppy Indy worker in 98 having dark matches in WCW without ever looking on that level. By early 1999, he was matching it with Rey Mysterio Jr and appeared to be the best high flier in the industry. His athleticism was something else and he should have been the guy to lead the Cruiserweight division moving forward.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 3, 2019 19:58:24 GMT
We're off to a good start with a solid Top 10*. I voted for most of these guys, albeit in a much different order.
My biggest quibble is Edge ranking above Christian. Edge always seemed like the breakout star of the Brood while I had Christian pegged as the Buddy Roberts of the group. Yet he surpassed Gangrel to become Edge's regular partner while the chubby, puffy shirted Brood leader quickly became an afterthought. I didn't vote for Christian but I totally should have. No regrets leaving Edge off my list. Speaking of my list...
1. Hardcore Holly (#7 tie) 2. Rikishi (#7 tie) 3. Jerry Lynn (#5 tie) 4. Hardy Boyz (#1 Jeff & #2 Matt) 5. Jeff Jarrett 6. Balls Mahoney 7. Kane 8. Acolytes 9. Steve Corino (#10 tie) 10. Tajiri (#3 tie)
*I didn't bother with pics for Corino & Rhino because you only deserve to immortalized in photo form if you can crack the 10 point barrier.
Will be back later to explain my picks and put these guys over. Right now it's 50/50 on whether a new batch will get posted tonight.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 4, 2019 5:12:01 GMT
*Gonna write about my list. Don't think the rest of these results will warrant such a long post but I've had like a day and a half to ruminate on this one. So it's time to ramble.... Hardcore Holly- Going into 1999 he had spent half a decade in WWF as a low card afterthought with little success to his name. He was basically WWF's solid hand babyface answer to Brad Armstrong, only with dumber gimmicks. He 'peaked' as the guy who put over new heels in 95-96. Holly had finally hit rock bottom in '98 as one half of the awful New Midnight Express before ending the year as the weakest link in the JOB Squad. "Why is this guy still employed?"- Every wrestling fan in the world. A few months into '99 he randomly won the Hardcore Title from Al Snow in what I initially thought was a petty dick move by WWF to delegitimize hardcore wrestling by giving the title to a longtime jobber with zero hardcore credentials. Turns out I was very, very wrong as this would become the catalyst for the greatest run of Holly's lengthy career. Like D'Lo with the European Title a year before, Holly made that title his own. His whole gimmick, and even his new first name stemmed from the broken belt. Then came the awesome Big Shot gimmick with Holly calling out all the super heavyweights in WWF. Yeah, he was a dick, but he was a dick with huge balls. Dude was super entertaining in the role. To this day I still think saddling him with the luggage known as Crash halted his momentum. I've told this story before but it's worth telling again. ECW Arena fans were the most loyal the wrestling business has ever seen. Apropos of nothing they once started an impromptu chant for Hardcore Holly. To this day it remains one of the most surreal things I have ever experienced in wrestling. A WWF midcarder who gets ECW Arena chants for no reason at all is deserving of all the awards. Rikishi- Had been kicking around mainstream wrestling for a decade prior to 1999. Hadn't really been relevant since 1994. From then on it had been one bad gimmick after another. Which made his unexpected rise in 1999 almost equal to that of Hardcore Holly's. It wasn't a slow burn thing either. Rikishi suddenly became an overnight success after ten years. Big Pete hit the nail on the head with Rikishi's cool offense, fat guy dancing, and the Too Cool pairing making him an immediate hit with crowds. More live show talk- I saw one of the 'Kish's very first matches live. It was Rikishi vs. Crash taped for either Shotgun/Jakked or Heat. He got instantly over with me and the crowd due to his cool offense. The Rikishi Driver was a sick move I will discuss more later. For literally the first time ever I found myself caring about the man formerly known as Fatu, and judging by those pops I know I was not alone. Jerry Lynn- Was to 97-98 ECW what Bob "Spark Plugg" Holly was to mid-90s WWF. Basically your generic good hand babyface who existed to put new heels over in undercard matches. I'd occasionally meet an AOL wrestling fan who would pimp Jerry Lynn. I never gave much credence to these people. Because I had seen Jerry Lynn. He was a bore who didn't do anything your average WCW Cruiserweight couldn't do. I mean, Mr. JL flopped for a reason. Time for another live show story....Lynn vs. Lance opened the very first ECW Arena show I ever attended. They wrestled to a time limit draw. Lynn tried doing the 5 more minutes thing. The ECW Arena crowd rejected it with chants of "End The Match" and "Just Say Know" directed at Lance. Jerry Lynn was so NOT over he couldn't even get Pavlovian responses from the normally receptive ECW Arena crowd. 8 days later he would meet RVD at Living Dangerously. He was now a made man who would never again have a problem with unreceptive ECW crowds. Lynn was the ideal dance partner for RVD. They'd meet many more times, getting Lynn more and more over in the process. JL adding the Cradle Piledriver was the final touch on his Fatu-like meteoric rise after a decade of toiling in obscurity.  Hardy Boyz- Pete was on point again. Matt & Jeff always had the in ring talent but their look and goodie two shoes persona just screamed 80s. Nice guys finished last in the Attitude Era. They edgified their look, got a little push, and finally hit the jackpot with their feud against Edge & Christian culminating in the famous first ever tag team ladder match at No Mercy. From jobbers to tag team champs in one year. They had already exceeded my wildest expectations when 1999 drew to a close. All I wanted was one (fluke) tag title win. Never could I have imagined them becoming bona fide legends still active in WWE some 20 years later. Jeff Jarrett- Was the man from late 93 to early 96 but struggled in 97-98 as a New Generation guy having trouble fitting into the Attitude Era. WWF tried different things with JJ in those years. None of them worked. Even I, Double J fan extraordinaire, only liked him based on the years of residual good will he had built up. Things got a little better for JJ in early 99 when he formed a Baker All Star tag team with fellow New Generation alum who no longer fit in, Owen Hart. They didn't set the world on fire but this team gave both guys something to sink their teeth into, and they did win the tag titles. JJ would finally find himself a winning gimmick in the Attitude Era a few months later when he started the woman hater shtick. This was probably the most over JJ would ever be as a heel in WWF. He even worked with a bunch of celebrities during this run. The Chyna feud (which I will discuss more later) was well done. JJ then became one of the few people ever to get one over on Vince when he bolted for WCW. Jarrett ended 1999 in WCW finally on the cusp of the main event status I long always predicted for him. Balls Mahoney- Was a bathroom break sort of wrestler in 97-98. Did I underrate Balls during that time? Probably. And if so, I blame Axl Rotten since I blame Axl Rotten for most things. Anyway, I just dismissed Balls as a 'bad' ECW brawler. Basically a Rotten with a beard.....or Hack Myers without the charm. Balls first got over with me when I saw him have a killer match with RVD live at The Arena. Major eye opener. From then on I'd tell anybody who would listen (and many who wouldn't) "Don't sleep on Balls Mahoney! That dude can go!" His matches w/ Spike vs. the Dudleys were legitimately good. He had another gem with RVD, this time on pay per view. Basically from that first RVD match on Balls was a Top 10 ECW favorite. He also threw the sickest chairshots in the business and had a super fun theme. At least I was initially right about one thing. Balls was no Hack Myers. He was much, much better. Kane- This probably should have been Christian's spot but I'll still go to bat for my pick. I liked Kane from day one. Yet I also feared he would fizzle out once the Undertaker storyline inevitably ran its course. The two characters seemed so inextricably linked that I couldn't really imagine Kane doing non-Undertaker stuff. Those fears were proven wrong when Kane formed a surprisingly cool odd couple babyface team with XPac. Hell, it even almost made me tolerate X Pac. Kane improved his in ring game during his time teaming with Pac. There was a stretch where he was trying out new stuff in almost every match. I suppose it was the X Pac influence. For better or worse, WWF also humanized him during this run to make him a more well rounded character. Never again would I worry about Kane having a limited shelf life. Of course, I'd come to regret this a decade later after Kane had stunk up the joint for years, but that is of no effect on his cool 1999 run. Acolytes- Bradshaw finally got over with me in '98 after probably being a Bottom 10 WWF guy in 96-97. But I'm just a weirdo with odd taste. WWF tried a bunch of stuff with 'Shaw that year and he still wasn't clicking with the masses. Faarooq had a strong 96-97 before being neutered by the Rock feud in 1998. Seriously. The Rock owned Faarooq. Rocky took over the stable 'Rooq founded, stole all Faarooq's friends, beat him in their lone high profile match, and basically made Faarooq look like the biggest geek in wrestling. I went to a live WWF show around this time where Faarooq was about as over as pre-Living Dangerously Jerry Lynn. No cheers. No boos. Nothing but crickets. After a cool-on-paper tag team with Scorpio went nowhere I assumed Faarooq had to be just about done. So these two dudes going nowhere formed a weird-on-paper tag team in late 1998. I was initially intrigued......until Jackyl (who the internet told me was behind the new pairing) was released. Now what? Surely these Jackylites (as I initially called them) were destined to go the way of Armageddon (that's Recon & Sniper's post-Truth Commission team name for those who don't remember....which I imagine is everybody). Turns out I was wrong again. Acolytes got paired with Undertaker, which is a major improvement over the Jackyl. They also got over with me pretty quickly by wrestling a unique reckless, hard-hitting style that nobody else in WWF was doing. They even won the tag titles! (as with the Hardys, this is all I ever really hoped for) I loved their matches with the Hardys and KanePac. But, again, I'm just one weirdo with strange tastes. They still weren't over with the masses.....until the APA stuff, which I thought was late 99, but Kilgore says was early 2000. Whatever. The Acolytes still ruled. And even if they weren't over over in '99 at least they had carved out a solid niche for themselves on the roster. Steve Corino- Joined ECW as a low hype, low profile signing. I was more excited about this than most (anybody?) just because I had followed Corino since late 95-early 96 due to him being the first Apter Mag "Introducing" profile I had ever read. Yet I had very low expectations, simply figuring he was around to fill out an undercard babyface roster spot. And was I ever wrong about Corino's style. I was expecting a 1-2-3 Kid clone. What I got was so much better....nothing less than the late 90s version of Roddy Piper or Eddie Gilbert..... Corino got over with both me and the masses pretty quickly. Once again we have a live show story. Corino got some sick burns in on Dreamer's expense at either my first or second ECW Arena show. There was also that throwaway PPV match with Balls which Corino made into something more. He just got better from there as a dickish anti-hardcore crusader (to be fair, I still hadn't seen Cactus Jack do basically that same exact gimmick, so Corino's shtick seemed totally fresh and unique to me). Like Holly, Corino was a dick with huge balls. The best was the time at The Arena where his mates got the better of Taz and Corino added insult to injury with a "Catch me if you can. Keep the title if I let you." diss. The entire crowd was like "OOOH!" :lol:  Corino had a death wish. Corino awesomely invading the Limp Bizkit concert is another great example of this. Dude went from unknown indie guy to $$$ heel in the span of one short calendar year. Tajiri- Had a stellar in ring game from day one. Got over quickly as a good wrestler guy feuding with Super Crazy. But suffered from the same 'problem' as early Hardy Boys. He seemed like such a nice young man and late 90s wrestling was no place for nice young men. I didn't really see him having much of a career once the Crazy feud ran its course. Tajiri just didn't have much of a hook. Once again, I was very, very wrong. Tajiri transformed into Muta 2.0. Got a main event push. Nobody questioned it.Â
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 4, 2019 14:42:37 GMT
Themes
#1 (tie) Sandman (ECW)- 25 Points #1 (tie) Rob Van Dam- 25 Points 3. Vince McMahon/Corporation- 24 Points 4. Steve Austin- 22 Points 5. Undertaker/Ministry- 20 Points 6. Chris Jericho (WWF)- 19 Points 7. (tie) New Jack- 18 Points 7. (tie) Triple H- 18 Points 9. The Brood/Gangrel- 15 Points 10. (tie) Billy Gunn- 10 Points 10. (tie) Hollywood Hogan- 10 Points
#1-#5
Co-Winner: Sandman- 25 Points
Co-Winner: Rob Van Dam- 25 Points
#3 Mr. McMahon/Corporation- 24 Points
#4 Steve Austin- 22 Points
#5 Undertaker/Ministry- 20 Points
#6-#10
{Spoiler} {Spoiler}
6. Chris Jericho- 19 Points
7. Triple H- 18 Points
7. New Jack- 18 Points
9. Gangrel/Brood- 15 Points
10. Billy Gunn- 10 Points
10. Hollywood Hogan- 10 Points
The Rest
Mankind- 8 Points
Goldberg- 7 Points
Corporate Ministry- 6 Points D'Lo Brown- 6 Points
The Rock- 5 Points Raven (ECW)- 5 Points Mitsuharu Misawa- 5 Points
Lance Storm- 4 Points
Balls Mahoney- 3 Points Jeff Jarrett (WCW)- 3 Points Big Show- 3 Points Kenta Kobashi- 3 Points Tajiri- 3 Points
Four Horsemen- 2 Points Hardcore Holly- 2 Points Jerry Lynn- 2 Points
Kane- 1 Point Sting- 1 Point
|
|
Legend
USER IS ONLINE
Years Old
Male
Fan Fic Legend
27,901 POSTS & 20,223 LIKES
|
Post by UT on Feb 4, 2019 16:35:55 GMT
I could have never contributed to the most improved list , as I've said I have trouble differentiating the exact years and no way would I have been able to know the difference off the top of my head between most guys. The reason The Hardy's and E&C made the leap though is because of the ladder matches right? They went from run of the mill tag teams to dynasties? Good votes.
Not a big ECW guy but The Sandman is an obvious choice , especially if you include the entire entrance. It made an entire career for him and made him memorable for even the non Die Hard ECW people like myself.
I probably would have voted No Chance in Hell #1. Jericho's would have been really high on my list as well. I'm also surprised to see that The Broods theme wasn't a little higher given the fact it is pretty awesome and PW loves it.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 4, 2019 17:35:55 GMT
The reason I went with Edge > Christian was simply because Edge was the bigger star of the two. You make some good points, but I'd still stick with my choice because Edge received a mini-singles push that hinted at bigger things and that promo on the SmackDown pilot. The Brood should have been dead and buried after Gangrel's embarrassing attempt at a promo, but Edge saved it.
I can live with Enter Sandman making any list, but outside of his return, it isn't a song I associate with '99. As much as others enjoy that return, it's honestly something that's never resonated with me. It's strange because I can watch Sandman from 94-96 and instantly connect with the character, but if I see Sandman circa 99-01, I'm instantly reminded of Hak and the aura is lost. The Public Enemy suffered a similar fate in '99, that good-will they built in 94-95 was just gone.
If anybody else came out to Walk, it would blow up in their faces. It's one of the most obvious entrance themes ever, and Van Dam at the height of his cult status was the only star worthy of using the song.
The promotional material was so golden for the 1999 Royal Rumble, that Vince still uses the theme song to this day. It's right up there with the nWo theme as far as iconic heel themes go and the Corporate Ministry theme song was my favourite entrance theme from 1999-04.
Austin ran away with the award in '98, yet the theme song had such a legacy, it would have been stupid to leave it off '99.
My favourite iteration of The Undertaker's theme was at Wrestlemania XV. It was easily the best aspect of his appearance that night and the rocking guitars only made Taker cooler.
On the entrance alone, Jericho already seemed like much bigger star than he had in WCW. Any song that includes a countdown is automatically better (see Europe).
I hated My Time, what an entitled bratty song it was. It suited HHH to a tee and was just another way to escape Shawn's shadow.
Natural Born Killaz is a great song that should have been on the list for '98. I wasn't as into New Jack in '99, they could never find him any decent dance partners so the whole act fizzled.
If anything, The Brood theme was so new in 98, I find myself associating it more with this year. It was creepy, it was rocking and it was associated with the coolest visual in all of Pro Wrestling.
Don't I feel like a jackass? I gave Mr. Ass a joke vote lower on my list because the opening always cracks me up. I don't even know how the song goes after the first 10 seconds, that's all the song needed to be.
Hendrix is a legend, but when I think of Hogan in 99, I'm instantly thinking of that awful American Made song.
My list Chris Jericho – WWF Theme Vince McMahon Mankind HHH Stone Cold Steve Austin The Rock The Brood Jeff Jarrett – WCW Theme Mr. Ass Sting – Seek and Destroy
Mankind's Attitude Era update was much needed and the tribute to ACDC only made him more likeable.
The Rock remix took a plodding theme and turned it into an iconic anthem. It was another master-stroke from Vince and Jim Johnston.
I've never been a Kid Rock fan, but that was the perfect theme for Jeff and made him stand out from all those lazy sample songs WCW would pull for other guys.
For years I thought Sting dropping the Crow song was one of the biggest injustices in Pro Wrestling. He should have been like The Undertaker and had the best entrance in Pro Wrestling and every PPV should have been built around how Sting would make his appearance. However, I've come to realise that Sting sucked in '98 and needed to distance himself as much from that low energy character as possible. Sting returned in 1999 with a lot more fire and Seek & Destroy did a better job of selling that metamorphasis.
|
|
Legend
23,184 POSTS & 12,594 LIKES
|
Post by 🤯 on Feb 4, 2019 23:00:29 GMT
1. Vince McMahon's No Chance in Hell 2. Chris Jericho's Break the Walls Down 3. Triple H's My Time 4. Gangrel / The Brood 5. D'Lo Brown 6. The Ministry of Darkness 7. Billy Gunn's Ass Man 8. Big Show 9. Hardcore Holly 10. Kane
Vince's was my #1 with a bullet for perfectly capturing the vibe of the year, perfectly capturing his heel character, for its legacy/staying power, and for just being a bad ass song.
Similarly, Jericho's WWF theme gets boosted by that bad ass countdown to really be more of a 1b than a #2.
I always had a big ol' soft spot for My Time and that Chris Warren/Rage Against The Machine sounding DX stuff. This was the best of the bunch to me, and since I'd already given love to the DX theme in '98, figured it was time for My Time here.
The Brood song is just so good I can't find a reason not to include it in my Top 5 for every year where it's relevant.
D'Lo had a great fucking theme that I think is underappreciated because of how far down the card he drops throughout 1999. But you better recognize! It's fucking great, one of my all-time forgotten favorites. Add in that head bobble... Fucking great.
The Corporate Ministry theme fucking sucked. But the Ministry of Darkness theme alone, unremixed, was fucking awesome as hell too. 1999 seriously puts up a good fight against 1998 for having better themes.
Ass Man and Big Show may have ridiculous lyrics, but they come with great music. And in the case of Ass Man, the ridiculous lyrics actually combine with the good music to make a great song. Ass Man rivals He's a Real Man's Man for GOAT entrance theme that is unintentionally hilarious to boot.
For a strictly instrumental entrance theme, Holly's might've been my favorite until Benoit debuted. And I think I short changed Kane for 1998, so wanted to give him some delayed love here.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 2:50:54 GMT
1. Glass Shatters- Steve Austin 2. Walk- Rob Van Dam 3. Ministry Theme- Undertaker 4. Invasion- Goldberg 5. Enter Sandman- The Sandman 6. Spartan X- Mitsuharu Misawa 7. Blood- The Brood 8. Grand Sword- Kenta Kobashi 9. Natural Born Killaz- New Jack 10. Coast- The Four Horsemen Vince never really crossed my mind, I guess I had the Ministry theme at the front of my mind when picking big heel themes. The opening piano chords of Spartan X still give me chills. I was all about All Japan in 1999 which is where many of my votes went too in the other categories as well. Walk was also very close to getting my number 1. Nothing like the ECW faithful in full throat singing RE-SPECT!!! WALK!!!! As for most improved, with regards to Triple H I've seen that movie before. ----1995, missing----- (lol)
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 5, 2019 2:57:26 GMT
We also saw Bischoff before Vince, Sandman before Austin - it didn't take away from those characters.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 3:01:26 GMT
Triple H didn't take the gimmick to another level though. Shane wrecks him on promos while having the same intensity. Ring work is a slight edge to Triple H which is small fries in the grand scheme of things. I'll take Shane's short term quality over Triple H's quantity anytime.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 5, 2019 3:19:25 GMT
The McMahon-Helmsly storyline trumps any angle Shane was apart of and gave us three great rivalries in Foley, Rock and Angle, all within a year. Douglas spent the majority of the time hyping up a match that was never going to take place in ECW and his most memorable rivalry was against Pitbull #2.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 5, 2019 3:29:51 GMT
We had 5 voters in the Theme category. This has to be one of the closest, if not the closest competitions so far. There was a tight jumble at the top with only 10 points (or one voter) separating 1st place from 9th. I'll cover the tunes that didn't make my list first. Austin & Hollywood Hogan's themes were already iconic while Jericho's soon would be. Jericho's theme also gets bonus points for being very '1999.' I suppose it's a testament to the greatness of that theme that it hadn't changed in nearly 20 years (at least as far as I know). Gangrel/The Brood was the other Top 10er not to make my list. While perhaps not quite as iconic as the other three, it still retains a strong cult following some twenty years later. I have no problem with any of them in the Top 10. 🤯 I personally think 1999 smokes 1998 in the theme department. As for my list..... 1. Sandman (#1 tie) 2. RVD (#1 tie) 3. New Jack (#7 tie) 4. Undertaker/Ministry (#5) 5. Corporate Ministry 6. Vince McMahon/Corporation (#3) 7. Billy Gunn (#10 tie) 8. Balls Mahoney 9. Triple H (#7 tie) 10. Four Horsemen There was no chance (in hell) of the ECW theme Holy Trinity not claiming my Top 3 spots. Those are all great themes to begin with but experiencing them live as I did further enhances their appeal. Those 3 iconic themes contributed mightily to the communal (dare I say cult-like?) atmosphere of an ECW show. With Sandman reigning above all others. For starters, Enter Sandman is a great song. How great is it? Great enough to be declared the greatest rock song of the 90s by the esteemed musicologists of PW. And there was no way it wasn't going to be my #1 after being in the building when Sandman made his triumphant return. RVD's Walk is another great song on its own merit that gets bumped up a level due to ECW Arena singalongs. New Jack's Natural Born Killaz has to be the greatest use of music in pro wrestling history, right? Heels perform dastardly deeds. ECW needs a hero. BAM! Natural Born Killaz hits. New Jack comes out to save the day. The theme plays the entire time. On the rare occasions those dastardly heels get the better of New Jack, BAM! again. The music stops immediately. Like I said, GOAT use of music in pro wrestling history. Kilgore accurately described Undertaker's 1998 Dark Side theme as "sounding like a crazy tall satanist was about to track you down so he could disembowel you." His 1999 theme builds on that by bringing Satan himself in to contribute a few vocals. The Ministry theme rules. The Corporation theme rules. So mashing them up to create the Corporate Ministry theme obviously rules. Can't believe I was the only voter for this gem. Shame on you guys. Bash the shark jumping stable all you want but you cannot deny the greatness of this theme. The Mr. McMahon/Corporation theme was such a perfect fit for that character/storyline. There's a reason it became iconic. Like Jericho, Mr. McMahon still uses it 20 years later (as far as I know). Billy Gunn's theme is so gloriously pro wrestling. So ridiculous. So great. While Balls Mahoney's Big Balls theme has to be the most 'pro wrestling' song of all time not specifically created for pro wrestling. Triple H's My Time is a weird one. I didn't care for it at first. Like Pete, I just found it incredibly obnoxious (which kind of worked given HHH's character). But over time I grew to love it. It really was a perfect fit for his character. In fact, I eventually became so enamored with My Time that I (briefly) HATED when he switched to Motorhead's The Game theme in 2000. Fwiw Triple H will have my Top Two themes when we do our 2000 countdown this time next year. Bank on it. Horsemen theme is another all time classic that cracked my list because I wanted to give WCW a little love in this category.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 3:37:17 GMT
The McMahon-Helmsly storyline trumps any angle Shane was apart of and gave us three great rivalries in Foley, Rock and Angle, all within a year. Douglas spent the majority of the time hyping up a match that was never going to take place in ECW and his most memorable rivalry was against Pitbull #2. That's all booking choices though. Shane took what Ric Flair did and gave it a 90's edge. Triple H just swagger jacked it. What WWF creative decided to do with it was out of Shane's control. Edit: Shane taking a dump on 50 years of tradition >>>>>> I am the Game! Ugh-a! everytime.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 5, 2019 3:57:07 GMT
HHH played a role in putting those angles together and it helped shape his character. Shane had as much creative input in ECW and his big angle failed to measure up with HHH's.
I could see your point if fans started chanting 'Franchise' at HHH, like they chanted 'Goldberg' at Ryback, but that never happened. HHH was able to take the persona, make it his own and became the focal point of the hottest show in Pro Wrestling. If that doesn't make him one of the most improved characters, then you may as well call it something else.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 4:05:37 GMT
HHH played a role in putting those angles together and it helped shape his character. Shane had as much creative input in ECW and his big angle failed to measure up with HHH's. I could see your point if fans started chanting 'Franchise' at HHH, like they chanted 'Goldberg' at Ryback, but that never happened. HHH was able to take the persona, make it his own and became the focal point of the hottest show in Pro Wrestling. If that doesn't make him one of the most improved characters, then you may as well call it something else. That's all well and good. All I'm getting at is Triple H's "evolution" for lack of a better term was hardly revolutionary.
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
8,886 POSTS & 8,656 LIKES
|
Post by Big Pete on Feb 5, 2019 4:19:38 GMT
It wasn't, but I don't see why that's such a big problem when so many top stars are guilty of the exact same thing.
It's Kliq heat through and through.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 4:31:48 GMT
It wasn't, but I don't see why that's such a big problem when so many top stars are guilty of the exact same thing. It's Kliq heat through and through. I'm just tired of seeing so many people pump Triple H's tires as this be all end all heel for so long. Now get off my lawn. 4/10 4 Life
|
|
Moderator
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
Male
Lawlermaniac
8,933 POSTS & 11,883 LIKES
|
Post by Baker on Feb 5, 2019 4:35:41 GMT
FinishersWinner: Steve Austin's Stunner- 36 Points2. Rob Van Dam's Five Star Frog Splash- 31 Points3. Dudley Boyz 3D- 19 Points4. (tie) Rikishi Driver- 14 Points4. (tie) Goldberg's Jackhammer- 14 Points6. (tie) Triple H's Pedigree- 12 Points6. (tie) The Rock's People's Elbow- 12 Points8. Kidman's Shooting Star Press- 11 Points9. Kenta Kobashi's Burning Hammer- 10 Points10. (tie) Jerry Lynn's Cradle Piledriver- 9 Points10. (tie) Tazmission- 9 Points 10. DDP's Diamond Cutter- 9 Points 10. (tie) Mike Awesome's Awesome Bomb- 9 Points10. (tie) Jeff Hardy's Swanton Bomb- 9 Points10. (tie) Hayabusa's Phoenix Splash- 9 Points
The Rest
Chris Jericho's Walls of Jericho- 8 Points Bret Hart's Sharpshooter- 7 Points Mankind's Mr. Socko- 7 Points Big Show's(?) The Showstopper- 7 Points Blitzkrieg's Skytwister Press- 6 Points Undertaker's Tombstone- 5 Points The Rock's Rock Bottom- 5 Points Blitzkrieg's Phoenix Splash- 4 Points Rob Van Dam's Van Daminator- 4 Points Juventud Guerrera's 450 Splash- 3 Points Juventud Guerrera's Top Rope Juvy Driver- 2 Points Bradshaw's Clothesline From Hell- 2 Points Toshiaki Kawada's Ganso Bomb- 1 Point Mick Foley's Double Arm DDT- 1 Point #1-#9
Winner: Steve Austin's Stunner- 36 Points
2. Rob Van Dam's Five Star Frog Splash- 35 Points
3. Dudley Boyz 3D- 19 Points
4. (tie) Rikishi Driver- 14 Points
4. (tie) Goldberg's Jackhammer- 14 Points
6. (tie) Triple H's Pedigree- 12 Points
6. (tie) The Rock's People's Elbow- 12 Points
8. Kidman's Shooting Star Press- 11 Points
9. Kenta Kobashi's Burning Hammer- 10 Points
|
|
Junior Member
2,032 POSTS & 3,762 LIKES
|
Post by Kilgore on Feb 5, 2019 4:37:36 GMT
Sandman/Rob Van Dam: Obviously the coolest, we talked about this in 1998.
Vince McMahon/Corporation: I actually forgot about No Chance in Hell, which was pretty great for Vince.
Stone Cold: Glass shatters, people still lose their shit.
Undertaker/Ministry: The greatest Undertaker theme out of a career of awesome themes.
Chris Jericho (WWF): Controversial take, but this is a mediocre theme. People are marking out for the entrance as a whole.
New Jack: Like an action scene from a movie, New Jack whipping asses to the sounds of Natural Born Killaz, one of the coolest ideas in wrestling history.
Triple H: Another controversial take, I prefer My Time to The Game then, now, forever.
The Brood/Gangrel: I guess I took this for granted by 1999 because I forgot to vote for it.
Billy Gunn: A terrible oversight on my part. I remember downloading the theme in 2000ish and playing it over and over again. All timer.
Hollywood Hogan: Maybe this is a bit of The Brood taking for granted by 1999 because it was still one of the coolest themes while it lasted.
Some of my own votes that didn't make the Top 10:
Raven (ECW): Raven coming back out to the sweet sounds of 1994 again made me so happy. His return to ECW was mostly a flop, but goddamn hearing Offspring again made it seem better than it was.
Lance Storm: I always loved when a wrestler would start coming out to an ECW Soundtrack classic, Paul E. having played White Zombie's El Phantasmo and the Chicken Run Blastorama during live event ads A LOT. Lance Storm inheriting it was some rub onto itself, and it's to the point now where I think of him every time I hear it.
Tajiri: The truth is, I don't know if Tajiri started coming out to Smack My Bitch Up in 1999 or 2000, but I just assumed it was 1999 and voted for it because how fuckng cool was that as a theme song.
Jerry Lynn: Fear Factory's Scapegoat is a pretty awesome (pre-Demanufacture) Fear Factory song, and it made a pretty cool entrance for the otherwise bland JL. Lynn briefly did a death metal growl at the end of promos like it was his Wooo! just because of this song I think.
|
|
Senior Member
3,739 POSTS & 4,314 LIKES
|
Post by Shootist on Feb 5, 2019 4:58:03 GMT
1. Burning Hammer- Kenta Kobashi 2. Phoenix Splash- Hayabusa 3. Jackhammer- Goldberg 4. Five Star Frog Splash- RVD 5. Stunner- Steve Austin 6. Diamond Cutter- DDP 7. Awesome Bomb- Mike Awesome 8. Tazmission- Taz 9. Shooting Star Press- Kidman 10. Ganso Bomb- Toshiaki Kawada
Kobashi squeezed in another Burning Hammer on Misawa during a 99 tag match. Still nothing as impactful to me existed in '99.
Hayabusa was creating more buzz among tape traders and the Phoenix splash was only becomming cooler.
The Jackhammer was still the Jackhammer in 99 despite the depleted aura of Goldberg
As with everything else RVD The Five Star was at it's peak of overness. I guess I was taking it for granted though because of my number 2 choice.
Stunner's to anybody got everybody out of their seats.
DDP was starting to make the Diamond Cutter a more vanilla move in 99. Less variations than in past years.
Perhaps the Awesome Bomb should have placed higher on my list. Nothing exploded tables better than that move.
The Tazmission was still deadly in 99 as Taz worked his way up to the World Heavyweight Title.
I thought Liger had the patent on the Shooting Star. Kidman though got as close as anyone to surpassing him.
Kawada's Ganso Bomb was another necessity is the mother of invention moment. Misawa resists going into the full powerbomb so Kawada just decides to drop him square on his head. The peak of head dropping nastiness in '99. It was one time only though and not very pretty to look at aesthetically.
Like the Cradle Piledriver pick. Once again I overlook Jerry Lynn.
|
|