Now that the Catholic church is heading into the verge of sex trafficking nuns on top of shuffling around pedos how can anyone defend them?  Do we have a Catholic here or someone who is really good at counterpoints that can come up with a good defense of the Catholic church?  

A while ago I heard the comparison of the Catholic church to any business.  Let's say Batteries Plus or Mattress Firm.  If Mattress Firm had a history of shipping known pedo store managers from store to store they would be shut down or boycotted to death.  Or if Batteries Plus was hooking out their assistant store managers they would be shut down.  But the Catholic church is somehow immune to this.  People still show up on Sunday and chuck the pedo and prostitution ring money.  How?

Can't defend any religion. They're all corrupt as fuck.

I think most are distracted by the Catholic superhero in the funny hat.

The only defender of the Catholic Church i know of is Milo Yiannopolous and even then he is writing a book about why the current pope should resign.

The majority of Catholics I know of are elderly and don’t follow news much more than watching the evening news and reading the local newspaper.

My uncle (who my mother claims said he was an atheist his whole life) suddenly decides he wants to take his children to the local Catholic school. Guess who magically found the lord and started going to church every Sunday? 🙄

Religion is like telling a naughty child, if they behave now, they’ll get a present later.

I was asked, why, when I seem like an intelligent man do I like wrestling? Read the bible, or any religious text - it’s fantasy. How can anyone with any degree of intelligence, believe any of it. Let alone defend it.

Well I enjoy the storytelling aspects and the characters and think WWE is nowhere near as bad as people claim it to be.

Catholics have good wine.


..That's all I got...

Feb 11, 2019 16:12:33 GMT theend said:

Now that the Catholic church is heading into the verge of sex trafficking nuns on top of shuffling around pedos how can anyone defend them?  Do we have a Catholic here or someone who is really good at counterpoints that can come up with a good defense of the Catholic church?  

A while ago I heard the comparison of the Catholic church to any business.  Let's say Batteries Plus or Mattress Firm.  If Mattress Firm had a history of shipping known pedo store managers from store to store they would be shut down or boycotted to death.  Or if Batteries Plus was hooking out their assistant store managers they would be shut down.  But the Catholic church is somehow immune to this.  People still show up on Sunday and chuck the pedo and prostitution ring money.  How?

First things first, I am not a Catholic. 
I disagree generally with them on important theological stuff, part of which has made this current crisis.
All of that said, the catholic church is not greatly besieged by pedophiles.... Well no more than Anglicans, Public Schools and the Boy Scouts

1. No empirical data exists that suggests that Catholic clerics sexually abuse minors at a level higher than clerics from other religious traditions or from other groups of men who have ready access and power over children (e.g., school teachers, coaches).



The best available data reports that 4 percent of Catholic priests sexually violated a minor child during the last half of the 20th century with the peak level of abuse being in the 1970s and dropping off dramatically by the early 1980s. And in the recent Pennsylvania grand jury report only two cases were reported in the past dozen years that were already known and dealt with by authorities (thus the grand jury report is about historical issues and not about current problems of active clerical abuse now). Putting clergy abuse in context, research from the US Department of Education found that about 5-7 percent of public school teachers engaged in similar sexually abusive behavior with their students during a similar time frame. While no comprehensive studies have been conducted with most other religious traditions, a small scale study that I was involved with found that 4 percent of Anglican priests had violated minors in western Canada and many reports have mentioned that clerical abuse of minors is common with other religious leaders and clerics as well.
Source: www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/do-the-right-thing/201808/separating-facts-about-clergy-abuse-fiction

Unfortunately any position with access to children is going to attach predators.
The tone deaf nature of how the Catholic Church dealt with abuse is symbolic of the time and of the ignorance of middle-aged white men

Feb 11, 2019 16:25:09 GMT KJ said:

Can't defend any religion. They're all corrupt as fuck.

How do you define corruption?
Do you mean that organised religion is corrupt or that the very principal of religion is somehow corrupt?

Feb 11, 2019 20:10:02 GMT NATH45 said:

Religion is like telling a naughty child, if they behave now, they’ll get a present later.

I was asked, why, when I seem like an intelligent man do I like wrestling? Read the bible, or any religious text - it’s fantasy. How can anyone with any degree of intelligence, believe any of it. Let alone defend it.

Again, that is more a view of 20th Century evangelicalism than it is any sort of reflection of historical Christian beliefs.
Christianity is not about going to heaven when you die, that's a gross mis-characterization.

iNCY , 

All of that said, the catholic church is not greatly besieged by pedophiles....

I do not disagree on the per capita, but to be fair to my original post, the Catholic church has had a system that enabled pedophiles by shuffling them around and not reporting abusers.  That is the toxic, corrupt problem that can be blamed on the church.  It's what they did as an organization when faced with the problem.  

Great point, iNCY ... I meant organized religion.

The only Catholics I’ve met were generally cool. They weren’t particularly religious, but clung to the church for the community aspect of it.

I don’t really feel compelled to defend religious institutions, but I appreciate the idea of community so if it works for some folks good for them.

Feb 12, 2019 15:51:04 GMT KJ said:

Great point, iNCY ... I meant organized religion.

Just to understand you further, is there a certain level of organisation that means it would be intrinsically corrupt? Would a small community of buddhists that are simply trying to live out their beliefs together be corrupt or a small independent methodist church? Is it once things go to a state or national level that they have to be corrupt? Genuinely interested in your response - not trying to argue with you.

Anyone else followed the Cardinal Pell story? Thoughts?

Cardinal George Pell was last year convicted of sexually abusing two choirboys in 1996, but the Victorian County Court has not allowed media outlets to report the verdict before now.

Pell is Australia's most senior Catholic cleric and he now faces the prospect of prison time.

His five-week trial ended last December, when a jury found Pell guilty of sexual penetration of a child under 16, as well as four counts of committing an indecent act with, or in the presence, of a child.

It is likely Pell will be remanded in custody after a plea hearing on Wednesday, before he is sentenced next week.

What did he do?
The verdict relates to two different incidents that took place when he was the archbishop of Melbourne.

Pell abused the two choirboys at Melbourne's St Patrick's Cathedral after celebrating one of his first Sunday masses as archbishop.

He abused one of the boys a second time, two months later.

(ABC Australia)

A lot of people, including politicians are defending him
www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/devastating-tony-abbott-called-his-friend-george-pell-following-release-of-guilty-verdict-20190227-p510n5.html

I can sit through Andrew Bolt's casual racism, and staunch conservatism, fuck it, lets call it arrogance. In typical Bolt fashion to take the unpopular opinion to incite a response, but considering the sensitivity of the situation, to now begin trying to spin a censorship of opinion angle, is all types of low.

As for Abbott, and Howard, this is one of those moments, you walk away, shut you mouth and try to avoid your name being mentioned in the same sentence as Pell ever again.  

I think Pell is crap and he has a lot of blood on his hands... But I am shocked he was convicted on such flimsy evidence.

If God can't protect children from being sexually abused in his own place of worship what good is he?

Must be hard to walk around chest out and proud to be a catholic.

Feb 28, 2019 16:47:23 GMT theend said:

If God can't protect children from being sexually abused in his own place of worship what good is he?

Must be hard to walk around chest out and proud to be a catholic.

God works in mysterious ways. But it's also all part of his plan. I guess if you turn against your faith because of a minor raping than you deserve to burn in Hell.

Fuck if I can understand the logic of a celestial being.

I'm a Christmas, Easter, wedding, and funeral Catholic. Even though the whole sex scandal is a very big deal. I don't see many people leaving because of it. Like most things as long as you do see or hear about it happening in your life or local church everything is fine. I think more people are and will leave because the Catholic Church has not really evolved. It's really boring. I know more and more people that say they get nothing out of it anymore. They are going to what some refer to as feel good churches. Me I prefer to listen to a black Sunday morning radio program that reads a short Bible verse or two. Talks about it for a minute or two. Then finishes the hour playing the best music this side of Heaven.

There are over a billion catholics. For every bad apple there are half a million good people. For every corrupt priest there are hundreds of faithful who just want to help people. This is the availability heuristic at play. We assume things are worse than they are because we also have access to the bad. The corrupt absolutely need to be removed from the church, but we cannot paint everyone with the same brush.

Also the abuses of the church were not systematic as it was a corrupt core making the decisions not the entire church.  The local mom and pop church is not pro-pedophilia and the most regions did not take part in this.  

In all positivity I feel compelled to look at it like USA gymnastics. It, was only one bad Dr. But it was a whole organization that it let it go on.

Defend the Catholic Church?

They give you free wine.

:brows:

Mar 1, 2019 7:07:55 GMT Emperor said:

Defend the Catholic Church?

They give you free wine.

:brows:

How do they think the boys were so easily seduced?