Against my better judgment, I'm posting this thread because this is going to get talked about eventually and I figure it's best if a mod gets the ball rolling. Don't ask why, I barely do anything around here (except lock every single one of System's threads  ).

Things we know:

-Four people, 3 men and 1 woman, attacked 2 separate mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.
-One of the men livestreamed his portion of the attack, or at least the first 16-ish minutes of it.
-The man that livestreamed had various things written on his gun, including the names of other terrorists and notable attacks around the world, most (if not all) against Muslims.

Before we get into this, I want to say one thing that I don't think is up for debate: this was very much a racially charged terrorist attack. I don't want to debate this part of it, honestly. I don't see why we should call it anything other than what it is for the sake of politics or whatever. No matter how you spin this, the proof is there. Four white people attacked Muslims because of who they were. The end.

This is going to be an intense day, and already is. Everything from defending PewDiePie  to an Australian Senator blaming the victims to Canada's Conservative leader completely fucking up his statement on twitter to gun control in New Zealand and on and on and on and on....it's all getting discussed today in the hurricane that is our lives in 2019. So what are your thoughts?

...

So I watched the video. My wife and I are re-watching Game of Thrones and were up a bit later than usual last night, and I was half watching the show and half scrolling through my phone. I was on twitter when the news broke, then jumped to reddit. It had literally been news for minutes at that point and the video capture of the livestream was everywhere.

I'm aware that this is what the terrorists wanted, but I'm the kind of person that believes these things need to be seen by the general public. I know that isn't everyone's opinion, but I think that if more people were exposed to the horror of what happened yesterday and what is happening all over the world, more people would act. Would it create more terrorists? I don't think so. Do video games create terrorists? Those are more real in depiction than what we see on the news of reality, and many studies have proven that they don't affect people.

What I saw in that video was horrific and life-altering. And I'm surprised we haven't seen something like this sooner. These assholes that do these things want the recognition. That's why people are constantly telling the media they shouldn't share the attacker's name and photo. That's why people are working overtime to scrub the video from the internet as best they can. But I honestly don't believe not showing it will change anything.

I'm not looking forward to the millions upon millions of spin that politicians and racists are going to do over the next little while. I know we always say "something needs to change!" after every mass shooting, but this one feels different. I think something is going to change and I don't think it's going to be good.

Muslims aren’t a race.

I'm aware that this is what the terrorists wanted, but I'm the kind of person that believes these things need to be seen by the general public. I know that isn't everyone's opinion, but I think that if more people were exposed to the horror of what happened yesterday and what is happening all over the world, more people would act. Would it create more terrorists?

Agreed 100% with this. I know it’s not the same but I’ve read of so many people watching the documentary “Earthlings” and going vegetarian/vegan. It’s just 90 mins of full frontal slaughterhouse
and other such treatment of animals with Joaquin Pheonix narrating.

If the similar approach was made to School Shootings I think people would be way more outraged. I heard the news today and felt nothing,
like I was just reading the weather report, if I saw the video that others did I’m sure I would feel differently.

this was very much a racially charged terrorist attack.

Islam is a religion, not a race. But yes Islamophobia and xenophobia were definitely the major motivations behind this.  Most Muslims in NZ are people of color as well, so that was probably a bonus for these sick fucks.

The people that carried out these attacks are terrorists and should be dealt with accordingly.

Did the manifesto guy have any kids? Seems like he did this because the west is not making white babies... So if he didn't have his 2.1 replacement level, clearly he's part of the problem he was rebelling against.

Mar 15, 2019 14:47:49 GMT thereallt said:

this was very much a racially charged terrorist attack.

Islam is a religion, not a race. But yes Islamophobia and xenophobia were definitely the major motivations behind this.  Most Muslims in NZ are people of color as well, so that was probably a bonus for these sick fucks.

The people that carried out these attacks are terrorists and should be dealt with accordingly.

Yeah I misspoke. Thanks for pointing that out.

Mar 15, 2019 15:29:59 GMT @ness said:

Did the manifesto guy have any kids? Seems like he did this because the west is not making white babies... So if he didn't have his 2.1 replacement level, clearly he's part of the problem he was rebelling against.

nice. Checkmate, racists. Get off of 4chan and find yourself a nice, fertile white woman!

Mar 15, 2019 14:42:22 GMT System said:

Muslims aren’t a race.

I'm aware that this is what the terrorists wanted, but I'm the kind of person that believes these things need to be seen by the general public. I know that isn't everyone's opinion, but I think that if more people were exposed to the horror of what happened yesterday and what is happening all over the world, more people would act. Would it create more terrorists?

Agreed 100% with this. I know it’s not the same but I’ve read of so many people watching the documentary “Earthlings” and going vegetarian/vegan. It’s just 90 mins of full frontal slaughterhouse

and other such treatment of animals with Joaquin Pheonix narrating.



If the similar approach was made to School Shootings I think people would be way more outraged. I heard the news today and felt nothing,

like I was just reading the weather report, if I saw the video that others did I’m sure I would feel differently.

Same as you. I read that a mosque got shot up in New Zealand and said "not again," then was about to carry on watching Game of Thrones until I saw that it was livestreamed. After watching it I felt sick, and now I'm at the point where if they have a vigil or something at the mosque here in Kelowna, I'm going. Something has to be done to stop this.

...

Going back to the video, I should clarify that I get why people want the names and faces of the shooters to be forgotten. I've also read from various people today, some who study this kind of thing professionally, that in almost every single case where a manifesto is written, the person hopes that they will inspire others to do what they did. So I totally get that.

But I honestly can't see that ever stopping mass shootings, terrorist acts, whatever. The main goal of these attacks isn't hoping that others will do the same, it's making the people they're targeting dead. They want a certain group of people to be dead and so they do that. The inspiration part comes after.

I honestly believe that had Alexandre Bissonnette not existed or Donald Trump not been elected or whatever other multitude of reasons these people gave, they still would have done this. If not them then someone else. You think every single mass shooting or terrorist attack was inspired by the one before it? Fuck outta here.

Scrub the video for now. It's an ongoing investigation and I respect that. But people need to see this, and every other video. Blur the shooter's face and don't say his name if that makes you feel better. Just make everyone see what these horrific acts actually look like. See what assault weapons are capable of. Remember when the surveillance video from Columbine made it to the internet? People changed.

Spoiler tags for anyone that doesn't want to know:

SPOILER: Click to show

The video is 16 minutes long and most of that video is him driving to and from the mosque. The entire attack is maybe 5-6 minutes, and most of that time is him walking around the building putting bullets in people that are already dead. He ended dozens of lives in a matter of seconds. People need to witness that.

Now imagine that in the school your kids go to.

All I know is I want to see these fuckers punished. If any of them are still at large NZ should deploy the SAS and hunt them down like the dogs they are.

I'd like to think, this wasn't going to happen. But it has. I've always thought and I know others might feel the same, we in Australia and NZ didn't have the extremism in political and social opinion that other western countries have felt over the years. But we do.

There's been a lot of comments on Facebook from rednecks and retards about this being payback, and unfortunately this is what this is. Extremism exists in all cultures, races, religions and communities. And regardless of the motivations or people attempting to justify it, this is inexcusable. A disgusting, violent act by a piece of shit, that hopefully spends the rest of his life in a cell next to a large Māori man. 

Curiosity got the better of me. I tried searching for the video, obviously mostly scrubbed. Went to 8chan since it's being plugged a lot. Saw I assume an edited version (was 90 secs) and had to back out and clear my browser history. Normally feel nothing when these things are reported, but witnessing even if it wasn't the full thing just makes me sick to my stomach. So much easier to move on and ignore if you don't see the carnage.

I've been meaning to make a thread about guns in general for a while and to be honest I really don't have much of a relationship with them. So to see an automatic weapon just unload instantly like that... I finally get it those that want them banned. Can't see any other reason for them to exist.

Earth was a mistake.

Yeah. I ain’t trying to see that video. I did something like that once to watch the first ever ISIS beheading and I haven’t forgotten about it to this day. Ain’t into that.

This story is disgusting and it pisses me off. So many innocent lives were lost for religion, my religion, and it’s just disrespectful to humanity. Animalistic behavior and all for some sick idea of white supremacy. Despicable.

To me it doesn't matter what religion, race, sexual orientation you are, no one deserves this.   It's extremism and in any form it's wrong. I don't need to watch the video or any video depicting terrible things to feel sick about it. Maybe that's what separates us from those who actually carry out these heinous acts.

What really bothers me is white terrorists like this actually get treated better in the media then if it was a muslim or person of a different race. That's just as wrong and it perpetuates the issues we as a society face.

I travel to Christchurch a lot for work, like maybe I have been there 40 times or so, really nice people if a little different.

As a Christian I must say that I believe in everyone's right to choose their worship and everyone should be free to worship in safety.
This attach was cowardly and not an act of anything other than mass murder, it's not a statement or a reprisal, it is murder.
Anyone who supports the needs of the public to own an AR-15 is part of the problem.
If you want to argue about the role of a document a couple of hundred years old in certifying your rights to be armed, that's fine.. As long as you choose to live you life by all standards of a couple of a hundreds of years old including the medical attention you receive.. Have an infection? Let's break out the leaches.

This isn't the thread to discuss it, but multiculturalism has failed and there can be no such thing as a secular society with non-secular people within it.

Slapback attack today. Will be a shooting in 6 to 9 days somewhere else killing a small number of people. The patterns of these attacks are getting to be routine and the 3 or 4 attack clusters with one main, one impulsive copycat and one or two planned copycats is solidifying.

What is more concerning, and I am starting slowly to do work on, is after a shooting gun and ammo sales spike, and if I am correct, homicide and assault with firearm rates. So while a dozen or die in a public shooting, a few dozen will die in separate unpublicized shootings the following two weeks.

Mar 19, 2019 7:00:42 GMT c said:

Slapback attack today. Will be a shooting in 6 to 9 days somewhere else killing a small number of people. The patterns of these attacks are getting to be routine and the 3 or 4 attack clusters with one main, one impulsive copycat and one or two planned copycats is solidifying.

What is more concerning, and I am starting slowly to do work on, is after a shooting gun and ammo sales spike, and if I am correct, homicide and assault with firearm rates. So while a dozen or die in a public shooting, a few dozen will die in separate unpublicized shootings the following two weeks.

Is it really that predictable with the statistics of copycats?
That's depressing, more the predictability of human nature than the human cost... I really hate being bored.

I am aware of the irony in this question for places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the USA. But here goes.

Many times these shootings are labeled as far right inspired. Perhaps rightfully so. Not that the reaction should be murder, but what is wrong with being anti immigration? And perhaps another way of asking this question. Why does the prevailing opinion seem to be that every person born anywhere in the world seems to have some sort of inalienable right to choose move to any other place in the world. What is wrong with having parts of the world that are for some people, and other parts are for other people, and we don't mix?

Mar 19, 2019 11:23:43 GMT iNCY said:

Mar 19, 2019 7:00:42 GMT c said:

Slapback attack today. Will be a shooting in 6 to 9 days somewhere else killing a small number of people. The patterns of these attacks are getting to be routine and the 3 or 4 attack clusters with one main, one impulsive copycat and one or two planned copycats is solidifying.

What is more concerning, and I am starting slowly to do work on, is after a shooting gun and ammo sales spike, and if I am correct, homicide and assault with firearm rates. So while a dozen or die in a public shooting, a few dozen will die in separate unpublicized shootings the following two weeks.

Is it really that predictable with the statistics of copycats?
That's depressing, more the predictability of human nature than the human cost... I really hate being bored.

Yeah, I been casually tracking it for the last 5 years based on a psychological principle referred to as the werther effect I first read about in Cialdini's book Influence.  I learned persuasion from a student of his, and the theory for how social proof influences the replication of aggression after media coverage is pretty damn solid and predictable.