Instead of derailing AP's thread with my silly opinions, I thought it'd be best to give this it's own thread.

So in 2002, the WWE decided to make a host of changes. Not only did they divide the on-screen rosters, they unified the European, Hardcore and Intercontinental Championship into the World Championship. I'm not entirely sure what the rationale was behind the move, but the best explanation came from PW's Vince McMahon who suggested it was to establish the World Championship. The move didn't last long and in May of 2003 the WWE decided to bring the championship back.

At the time, I wasn't a fan of the move. The WWE had a winning formula and were making all these changes that made it difficult to get invested in what was going on. The Intercontinental Championship was still one of the highlights of the show and watching guys like Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit compete for it ensured there would be one action packed match on the show. I also hated that they used it to buy HHH more heat. HHH had about 3 years invested into his heel run and was just coming off a hot angle with Shawn Michaels, he didn't need the rub.

These days, I'm softening on the move. The Raw Tag Team division was a lot better than I remembered with units like Chris Jericho/Christian, Booker T/Goldust, Rob Van Dam/Jeff Hardy, Three Minute Warning, Lance Storm/William Regal and The Dudley Boyz tearing it up. I also think my issue wasn't so much with the belt, but the state of the show at the time. We were right in the middle of the Katie Vick angle which was by far the worst thing the WWE ever put on television. I'd take a Gobbledy Gooker dance compilation over that shit anyday.

What did you guys think?

In real time I was very worried about it, but I also kinda understood it... and in hindsight, I totally understand it and like the idea. But WWE got cold feet. I think part of it might be something to do with Jericho's feud with Shawn Michaels. I feel like there was an episode of Confidential around the time that had a segment on Jericho and his idols, and I think he talked up Ricky Steamboat as his idol and how important the IC title was to him (even more so than the world title). I think WWE realized that they kinda threw away that history by disappearing Patterson's belt.

Seriously, what was done with the IC since it was brought back that made it worth bringing back? Outside of helping to elevate Orton, I can't really think of anything... it's just been a filler belt.

Oct 19, 2017 0:37:47 GMT 🤯 said:

Seriously, what was done with the IC since it was brought back that made it worth bringing back? Outside of helping to elevate Orton, I can't really think of anything... it's just been a filler belt.

That's because they ended Santino's second reign way too quickly. Such a missed opportunity. The Honkameter should have lasted another 40 weeks, dammit! Santino & Beth were two of the best things in wrestling during whatever year that was. 

RVD consolidating the Hardcore & Europeans titles into the IC championship was a smart move I approved of. Those titles had run their course. Things got ridiculous with all those belts for a while there. Especially when they were recognizing WCW titles too. It got to the point where it seemed like half the roster was some kind of champion while 80% of the roster had held a title on WWE television at one time or another. 

I didn't like dumping the IC title at all though. It's always nice to have a secondary belt to elevate midcarders/up and comers and give a veteran stars with nothing better to do at the moment a reason for existing. 

While I was happy they brought it back, I didn't really like the way they reintroduced it on Christian either. Christian was ice cold to me at the time. I would have much rather had Booker with the belt for a while. He was still popular (though also cooling off) and it could have been a consolation prize for him not winning the World Title at Wrestlemania. Also thought all those Booker/Christian/Jericho/RVD matches were shockingly bad considering the talents of those four men. That quartet rarely seemed to click together during this period.

Pete is on the right track when it comes to making the tag division a focal point during HHH's Reign of Doom, though I still would have the IC Title too. My big idea during the time was actually to make the tag division the focal point of the show, not unlike Smackdown during the Smackdown Six era. My theory being HHH was going to be the World Champion regardless. Fine. Let him have it. And just sort of siphon him off in his own world of suck with Scott Steiner and Kevin Nash and Kane or whoever. But devote the bulk of the show to the tag scene with the most consistent, most popular act on the show, BookDust, as the aces. 

Another huge missed opportunity was not running the BookDust vs. Orton & Batista feud I thought they were gonna do going into Wrestlemania 19. Orton & Batista "shocked" Goldust (don't ask) and instead of this becoming a red hot feud with BookDust out for revenge against the young punks (shades of Funk & Foley vs. New Age Outlaws!) Goldust did a bunch of lame comedy based on having "shock syndrome" or some Russoriffic garbage like that while Booker just moved onto other things, namely losing to HHH. BookDust vs. Young Evolution would have been a killer feud. Working with the popular veterans also would have done wonders for greenhorns Orton & Batista.

What the hell did the baby Evolution duo do in 2003 anyway? I don't remember much from those two that year. Seems like Evolution as a complete stable didn't really take off until 2004. Am I wrong  here?

Whew! This got off topic. But I answered @big Pete somewhere in that wall of text.  

AH! I can't believe I forgot about that Santino reign... I was SO hopeful that he'd break the record. Thanks for the reminder, Baker. Besides that though, what else has there been? :lol:

I almost feel like we need to derail this thread into a broader woulda/coulda/shoulda for late 2002/early 2003 WWE. RAW's tag division was so underrated/underappreciated, in part due to bad booking and in part due to the SmackDown! Six straight up tearing shit up on the blue brand.

BookDust probably should've won the tag titles at SummerSlam 2002 or like the RAW thereafter. By the time they won later in 2002, it felt like it was too little too late. With better booking and some proper timing, RAW's tag division could've been the fucking bomb. BookDust for sure should've been the aces, with Hurricane & Kane right there as 1B, RVD & Jeff Hardy as 1C, and Bubba Ray & Spike Dudley (and then the returning D-Von) as 1D... or, I guess, 3D. Jericho & Christian would've been leading the way on the heel side, and 3-Minute Warning should've been pushed bigger/harder (in this mark's opinion). Regal & Nowinski, and Storm & Morley could've been some fodder heel tag teams. And then Orton/Batista or Flair/Batista could've been another up-and-coming major heel factor.

To answer your question, I think that baby Evolution was plagued by injuries. Orton was coming off his injury in late 2002 (with those fucking awesome RNN updates), and then by the time he's back in the swing full time... Batista somehow gets injured, and then tears his tricep while jogging while out injured (I was pretty sure he was on the Kevin Nash career path at that point). About all that baby Evolution was around to accomplish was jumping Scott Steiner. Then nothing until like the middle of 2003 when everyone was healthy again.

Oct 19, 2017 0:37:47 GMT 🤯 said:

In real time I was very worried about it, but I also kinda understood it... and in hindsight, I totally understand it and like the idea. But WWE got cold feet. I think part of it might be something to do with Jericho's feud with Shawn Michaels. I feel like there was an episode of Confidential around the time that had a segment on Jericho and his idols, and I think he talked up Ricky Steamboat as his idol and how important the IC title was to him (even more so than the world title). I think WWE realized that they kinda threw away that history by disappearing Patterson's belt.

Seriously, what was done with the IC since it was brought back that made it worth bringing back? Outside of helping to elevate Orton, I can't really think of anything... it's just been a filler belt.

Exactly, they go to all the trouble of bringing the championship back at Judgement Day only for it to miss the cut at SummerSlam. That seemed to be a running trend for the belt, from Wrestlemania XVIII to Wrestlemania XXXI, the Intercontinental Championship was only defended twice. Both matches sucked as well, JBL/Rey was a glorified segment and the Big Show/Rhodes was awful and ruined all the good will Cody had built.

I'd argue that the belt didn't elevate Orton, Orton elevated the belt. Prior to Orton winning the title, it was just a way to pigeon hole guys like Rob Van Dam, Chris Jericho and Booker T. Orton was a star in the making, so putting the belt on him made it more valuable. In saying that, Orton would have gotten over regardless. The Legend Killer gimmick was over, they just had him beat HBK and he was about to have a career making program with Foley. He didn't need it, and when he eventually dropped the championship to Edge, it backfired on the WWE. Maybe they pushed the wrong guy and should have put it on Shelton Benjamin right away, but it didn't pan out either way.

Bake - Both Orton and Batista suffered injuries around that time, which set things back. Orton was only out of action for three months, while Batista was gone for nine months. I would like to think if both guys had have stayed healthy, we would have got those Evolution 6-Mans we got in 2004 which were great matches.

Very good point, Big Pete, about Orton elevating the title and probably not even needing it given his Legend Killer gimmick.

Just further proves how useless the title had become.

I mean, can we all pause to acknowledge that the real reason for an IC title in the first place was so that the B/C town house shows could have an important-seeming champion while the A town house shows got Hogan/the world title?

I feel like ever since Hogan first left and business tanked, WWF just ran the same crew more or less in all towns. Certainly by the Attitude Era. And then the brand split surely killed any need for A, B, and C town crews.

No offense to them, but I cannot for the life of me imagine Christian, Shelton, Dolph, Kofi, etc. being the main event attraction in B and C towns.

Oct 19, 2017 1:49:21 GMT 🤯 said:

AH! I can't believe I forgot about that Santino reign... I was SO hopeful that he'd break the record. Thanks for the reminder, Baker . Besides that though, what else has there been?

There's no doubt that the IC title hasn't been used as what it should be over the years - but there have been some cool runs with it since it came back in '03.

Orton run for the first half of '04 was excellent as you said.
I enjoyed Shelton's first run with the belt and feel like it felt important as it followed his Raw debut and wins over Triple H. They never capitalised in his momentum after that though.
I think Jeff Hardy/Umaga had a really fun back and forth feud for the title in 07 which of course gave us the debut of Santino which was an awesome moment.
The Rey Mysterio/Chris Jericho feud was incredible and maybe Jericho's best WWE feud at that stage. Great matches and great promos.
It transitioned from Mysterio to John Morrison in an incredibly fun Smackdown match and then to Drew McIntyre who held it for a while in a prominent position that made it feel important. 
Cody Rhodes had two excellent runs with the belt, frustratingly interupted by a random Big Show reign - but Cody brought back the old design and made it feel damn important.
The next time it felt really important was when Daniel Bryan won it at Wrestlemania and it seemed like the plan was for it and the US title held by Cena to be the top prizes while Brock held the World Title and wasn't around - but his messed up head ruined that.
Kevin Owens and Dean Ambrose feuding over it felt significant but then The Miz beat Zack Ryder for it and entered his career best run where he's had incredible (though overly long) feuds with Ziggler and Ambrose and is slowly staking his claim as one of the greatest IC champions of all time.


So undoubtedly plenty of garbage, but every now and then they've done something that has made it feel awesome. I just felt the need to stand up for it.