May 23, 2019 17:56:47 GMT Big Pete said:

So everybody says, but Right To Censor didn't even come close to any of the Wyatt Family vs. Shield matches let alone the Wyatt Family vs The Usos, Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan, Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena etc. Even Bray Wyatt vs. Roman Reigns had it's moments of being genuinely unsettling.

Right To Censor has? The stupid segment where they had JR do the Owen voice for Chyna's neck injury. Then the segment they aped from WCW where the Dudley Boyz pretended to join the stable only to double cross them ala DDP on the nWo. Do those moments really hold up better than Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan?

I still don’t think they deserve the credit for Bryan. The Yes Movement was a phenomenon before The Wyatt’s and after The Wyatts.

I’ll give you the match catalogue sure , but they were never in that position nor were they asked to be. They had a role , they were incredibly effective in that role and should be remembered as such.

Yeah the company recycles/steals story lines every few years. Calling them out in this one specific case is kind of silly.

EDIT: Also I liked the Dudleyz more than the one you posted.

Sure, if it can live with being a blatant and inferior rip-off.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give RTC credit and say the execution of that segment was well done. However, it had the legacy of one good television segment. The Diamond Dallas Page segment launched his career and turned a career mid-carder into a bonafide star.

May 23, 2019 18:22:22 GMT Big Pete said:

Sure, if it can live with being a blatant and inferior rip-off.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give RTC credit and say the execution of that segment was well done. However, it had the legacy of one good television segment. The Diamond Dallas Page segment launched his career and turned a career mid-carder into a bonafide star.

I don't disagree, but at the time I was an insane mark for the Dudleyz so this one really got me.

I’ll give you the match catalogue sure , but they were never in that position nor were they asked to be. They had a role , they were incredibly effective in that role and should be remembered as such.

I agree they were fine in their role.

However, if we're talking all-time greatest factions, we've got to raise the bar above a mid-card level stable. If we're using 'effectiveness' as a barometre, than an argument could be made that the Mean Street Posse deserve to be on this list.

...

Please tell me the Mean Street Posse didn't make this list?

I still don’t think they deserve the credit for Bryan. The Yes Movement was a phenomenon before The Wyatt’s and after The Wyatts.

I don't want to continue making it about the Wyatt Family vs. RTC beyond this post because I'm sure others have their perspective on RTC. However, it takes two to tango and the Wyatts also shined in that program. The Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan match at the Royal Rumble was the best singles match in Bray's career and he was the focus of it.

May 23, 2019 18:22:22 GMT Big Pete said:

Sure, if it can live with being a blatant and inferior rip-off.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give RTC credit and say the execution of that segment was well done. However, it had the legacy of one good television segment. The Diamond Dallas Page segment launched his career and turned a career mid-carder into a bonafide star.

You’re being a absurd. One was aligned with one of the biggest angles in the history of wrestling and the other was a clear midcard act who was never going to change the face of wrestling.

You calling it inferior like it’s shocking or big news is weird. You comparing RTC to The nWo like they were out to accomplish the same things is even weirder.

Just because someone created The Godfather doesn’t mean everyone else can no longer make mafia movies , nor does it mean they all have to aspire to be the same thing.

May 23, 2019 18:30:35 GMT UT said:

May 23, 2019 18:22:22 GMT Big Pete said:

Sure, if it can live with being a blatant and inferior rip-off.

Don't get me wrong, I'll give RTC credit and say the execution of that segment was well done. However, it had the legacy of one good television segment. The Diamond Dallas Page segment launched his career and turned a career mid-carder into a bonafide star.

Just because someone created The Godfather doesn’t mean everyone else can no longer make mafia movies , nor does it mean they all have to aspire to be the same thing.

Good shout out UT - double ZING

Just because someone created The Godfather doesn’t mean everyone else can no longer make mafia movies , nor does it mean they all have to aspire to be the same thing.

If a crime movie was to copy a memorable scene from the Godfather and pass it off as a highlight, it would be called on it no question.

I feel like we're arguing why Mean Girls shouldn't belong on a list full of movies like Silence of the Lambs, Shawshank Redemption, China Town, Psycho, The Apartment etc.

May 23, 2019 18:41:54 GMT Big Pete said:

Just because someone created The Godfather doesn’t mean everyone else can no longer make mafia movies , nor does it mean they all have to aspire to be the same thing.

If a crime movie was to copy a memorable scene from the Godfather and pass it off as a highlight, it would be called on it no question.

I feel like we're arguing why Mean Girls shouldn't belong on a list full of movies like Silence of the Lambs, Shawshank Redemption, China Town, Psycho, The Apartment etc.

Well it’s better than Pyscho so...

Nice debate here, I'm siding with UT though. They played the role well and is one of the better examples of cheap heat. Those segments were well written and got the desired result. I still don't think they're top 15 worthy but it sure sparked some interesting conversation.

Fun fact: RTC and Steven Richards in particular were my dad's favorite wrestler(s).

In real time, at least in mid to late 2000, I recall RTC having enough heat (cheap or otherwise) that I would've totally, readily, and easily bought Richards as a chicken shit heel with his goon squad muscle doing the dirty work and heavy lifting to make him feel not out of place in multi-man main event matches for the WWF title.

Like replace Benoit in the fatal 4-way at Unforgiven or Rikishi in the 6-man HIAC at Armageddon with Richards and I don't think I would've batted an eyelash.

But then by late 2000 and into 2001, RTC had been booked shittily enough that feeling was gone.

Looks like I'm the RTC moderate in the room. I thought they were a good heat magnet midcard stable but ultimately not important or memorable enough to crack my list. They'd be in that 20-25 range.

I was a huge fan of Stevie Richards in ECW. So my favorite thing about this stable was it gave Stevie something to sink his teeth into. I don't think anybody other than maybe Big Pete would argue against this run being the peak of Stevie's post-ECW career. He did a great job as a fanatical censorious prude determined to take away everything the fans enjoyed. 

Yet RTC was basically a one man show. Beyond Stevie there wasn't much to write home about. Having iconic Attitude Era midcarders Val Venis & Godfather renounce their popular porn star and pimp ways was a good idea in theory that didn't work out so well in reality. Stripping them of what made them popular just made them boring. They were nothing without their gimmicks. Instead of real heat they elicited yawns (at least from me) once the initial shock wore off. Bull Buchanan was a black hole of charisma as Generic Hoss #8. While "Schoolmarm" Ivory seemed to exist solely to inevitably be squashed by Chyna. Though I suppose I should give WWF credit here for drawing it out for as long as they did. 

WWF did a good job with booking and presentation. They weren't meant to be a main event act. Just a thing to piss fans off in the midcard. It also gave 4 guys who were floundering something to do. Everything about RTC was designed to illicit boos. Even their theme music was as obnoxious as possible. Some people call it cheap heat. I call it good booking. The job of a heel is to get booed. RTC definitely got booed. Fwiw every casual fan I knew in real life other than one hated RTC in the good way.

Another thing I liked about the RTC gimmick was how it parodied L. Brent Bozell's real life Parents Television Council. The PTC had declared war on WWF over what they felt was offensive content. Modern wrestling fans tend to groan at petty Vince whereas I LOVED petty Vince. I was such a WWF fanatic during the 1995-2000 peak years of my fandom that I viewed any attack on WWF as a personal attack. So I always popped when Vince clapped back on his enemies, because WWF's enemies were my enemies. Even today I get a kick out of petty Vince. Face it. Who among us wouldn't enjoy having a worldwide platform with which to take shots at our enemies? If you say you wouldn't, I'll say you're lying. Vince is still living the dream.

You know; I had RTC ahead of the Wyatt Family on my list and I kind of regret it. I totally undervalued how awesome the Wyatt Family was in their spotlight. I had RTC too high and the Wyatts too low, IMO. Eh, it is what it is now.

I'm with Big Pete and Baker on this one. RTC was never any better than mediocre, and was pretty much a one man show. Steven Richards was the only one in the group who was remotely interesting. No memorable matches, no memorable feuds, all they did was come out every week and draw cheap heat.

I didn't even consider voting for them.

I don't think anybody other than maybe Big Pete would argue against this run being the peak of Stevie's post-ECW career.

You know me too well.

In terms of infamy I would lean towards RTC, but in terms of creative peaks, I'd give his Dr. Stevie run in TNA circa 2009 the nod.

I'm honestly shocked anyone has anything good to say about Right To Censor. This is my most WTF moment on this version of PW.

RTC had change the channel heat with me as a kid. Every time they’d come on I’d switch over to WCW which is saying a lot considering their programming consisted of viagra on a pole matches and Vince Russo as World champion.

I feel the same way about them today when I rewatch old shows. I get no joy whatsoever about them being on my screen. I appreciate the gimmick and it was fitting for that era but I didn’t enjoy or care about any of those guys and I hated them interacting with guys I enjoyed.

Wyatt Family started out great but once they ran into Cena that was the beginning of the end. At least we got the Shield feud out of it.

13. The New Day 

** 35 Points ** (6 Lists)

Active 

2014 - Current 

Members 

Kofi Kingston 

Big E 

Xavier Woods 

Notable Feuds 

The Dudley Boys 

The Bar 

The Uso's 

Notable Matches 

Kofi Kingston vs Daniel Bryan (Wrestlemania 35)

The New Day vs Cesaro & Kidd (Payback 2015)

The New Day vs The Wyatt Family (Battleground 2016)

The New Day vs The Bar (Road Block 2016)

Accomplishments 

- 2x PWI Tag Team of the Year 

- 2x WWE Tag Team Champions 

- 1x WWE Heavyweight Championship 

The New Day have never been a favorite of mine and I've always been a sort of detractor of their style. They can be entertaining at times and can get me to laugh or engage but also I find them to be cringeworthy corny a ton of the time as well and they lose me. I also wasn't a fan of their long title run because I don't believe they had a ton of standout matches and while they were always good in the ring and rarely had a bad match - most of their matches really failed to standout as well. They all just sort of happened , New Day would win and we'd move on in a baron tag team division.

Having said all that , I can't deny they belong on this list (and maybe higher) for everything they've accomplished and overcome in the WWE and their longevity has been a feat in itself. It's a point to them that we don't have a bungled break up to remember them by and knock them down.

Still though for an act that was brutal at the start and was able to be turned around by these three is one of the better success stories in the WWE in recent memory and they all deserve credit. For what they've accomplished on screen and the fact that there is an argument that not one act in the roster has been as consistently over in the WWE (aside from maybe one better stable) as these guys is crazy and they sell a TON of merch for the WWE so it's no wonder why they are still together.

Having said all that - they didn't make my list. If I were being totally unbiased I probably would have put them around the bottom of the top ten but I'm not unbiased.

I liked the New Day as heels, but as faces they suck.

May 24, 2019 18:29:07 GMT thereallt said:

I liked the New Day as heels, but as faces they suck.

When was the transition? I know they were obnoxious heels who somehow became obnoxious faces, but what was the match/feud/moment that turned them?

I'll take the Spirit Squad any day over The New Day, just awful. I spelled it out pretty well in the bad gimmicks thread.

What's with all this New Day hate!?

Much like the Wyatt Family I totally blanked on The New Day when coming up with my list. Unlike the Wyatts they probably would/should have made it.

The numbers are impressive. They have longevity, the longest tag title reign in WWE history, and now a world champion. They've been one of the most popular babyface acts in the company for a few years. Before that my brother likes telling the story of that time he went to a WWE pay per view a couple years ago where The New Day got the most heel heat of anybody on the show.

The truth is I doubt if I've seen 45 minutes of New Day footage in my life. I imagine they'd be real hit or miss for me with more misses than hits. But I set out to be fair by including all eras and promotions, even those I'm not very familiar with. Plus The New Day had that fun segment with King Booker that one time!

12. The Nation of Domination 

-42 points- (7 lists)

Active 
1996 - 1998 

Members 

Farooq 

The Rock 

Kama 

D-Lo Brown 

Mark Henry 

Savio Vega 

Owen Hart 

Crush 

Notable Feuds 

Degeneration X 

Ahmed Johnson 

Notable Matches 

NoD vs DX (Street Fight , Monday Night Raw)

NoD vs LoD and Ahmed Johnson (Wrestlemania 13)

I thought for sure the NoD would be higher on the list but then I remembered that PW has a grudge against them for the countless faction ideas that popped up every week for every black wrestler in the history of the WWE.

I think they have an iconic theme , deserve a ton of credit for being the birth of The Rock and the feud with Degeneration X but in a hurry and off the top of my head I can't think of a ton of great NoD moments. I could be wrong.

May 25, 2019 16:29:11 GMT UT said:

I thought for sure the NoD would be higher on the list but then I remembered that PW has a grudge against them for the countless faction ideas that popped up every week for every black wrestler in the history of the WWE.

I think they have an iconic theme , deserve a ton of credit for being the birth of The Rock and the feud with Degeneration X but in a hurry and off the top of my head I can't think of a ton of great NoD moments. I could be wrong.

The notion of the Extreme Nation probably knocked the actual Nation down a few pegs by comparison to how fucking awesome the group could've been.

I didn't watch the Nation when it was happening and I don't think it holds up as entertaining if you didn't live through it. So I respect them but don't enjoy them so didn't vote for them.

The Nation is the first faction from my list to crack the overall Top 15. I had them at #10.....

Despite not being a fan of the first two incarnations of the group. The original version had 2.5 bathroom break wrestlers (Faarooq was important enough to kinda sorta care about) and an endless feud with Ahmed. I did like their ECW style street fight against Ahmed & LOD at Wrestlemania 13 though. 

Nation 2.0 was even worse. The Gang Warz storyline was brutal. Faarooq and his bland, bathroom break material lackeys did not enthrall me. The nicest thing I can say about this version is they were the least bad group in the Gang Warz storyline. Which, to use a Cornetticism, is like being the world's tallest midget. 

They finally struck gold when Rocky Maivia came aboard. Rock quickly became the most entertaining man in wrestling. The Rock/Faarooq power struggle made for some great tv. Then the rest of the group suddenly started having personalities and a purpose. The DX feud did wonders for them. Suddenly a bunch of previously bland midcarders were going 50/50 with some of the most popular stars in the company. Rock soon became my favorite wrestler. D'Lo (the one Nation holdover I actually liked) quickly jumped into my Top 10 when he gained a chest protector, beat HHH(!), and became The Champion of Europe. Godfather was sports entertainment gold as the fun loving pimp. Even Mark Henry, who I still didn't like, at least had a personality & purpose now with the "Sexual Chocolate" gimmick. I wasn't a big fan of Owen joining the Nation, or going heel in the first place, but I was always going to cheer for Owen. Pairing him with my new favorite wrestler Rocky against the hated DX was something I could get behind even if it was far from my dream of DX hating Owen as the company's top babyface. 

So the Nation made my list for being awesome in 1998 and creating a bunch of new stars. If you'd have told me in 1997 that Rocky Maivia, jobber D'Lo, and Kama Mustafa would be big stars and 3 of my favorite wrestlers one year later I'd have said you were crazy. Yet that's exactly what happened. Plus Rock obviously became one of the biggest stars of all time. And that rise to glory started right here in the Nation of Domination. I think that alone makes them worthy of a spot on the list. 

The NOD may be the most underrated stable of all time. The fact that it started off horribly and then became what it became is special. The Rock and Mark Henry were definitely guys who needed this stable to become what they became. The whole Rock/Farrooq feud that followed was great, too.

I think Ron Simmons is the most underrated wrestler of all time too. If you want to talk about minorities in wrestling, this guy was the first World Champion and then this stable bought men of color to a seriously taken level. If not for The Nation, who knows how far some of these guys would’ve gone. Honestly have to marvel at the career of Simmons and give major props to this faction for it.