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Post by UT on May 22, 2019 17:12:07 GMT
Top Ten Fifteen Factions of All Time 15. The Wyatt Family 14. Right to Censor 13. The New Day 12. The Nation of Domination 11. The Corporation 10. The Heenan Family 09. The Bullet Club 08. The Dangerous Alliance 07. Evolution 06. The Fabulous Freebirds 05. The Shield 04. D-Generation X 03. The Hart Foundation 02. The Four Horsemen 01. The nWo
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Post by UT on May 22, 2019 17:27:46 GMT
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Post by UT on May 22, 2019 17:31:46 GMT
Not sure how I feel about The Wyatts shoehorning their way into the bottom of the top 15 , nor that they belong. I mean it was a gimmick and a faction with a boatload of potential but outside of a great run (especially with The Shield) in 2014 they seemed more like a case of what could have been as opposed to what actually was.
I've made my hatred of Bray known over the years and I hope his new incarnation helps with his terrible promos but my favorite member of the originals was always Rowan. People shit on him because he didn't speak in tongue like Bray or come from the indies like Luke but the dude knew how to play his role and was convincing , even more convincing than Harper IMO. Not great in the ring but passable enough to be the muscle of this group and half of what should have been a dominate tag team.
Also I have to applaud the fact that they technically are the group that brought Braun in , people shit on his debut but he was awesome from the start. I'm happy the draft happened and he got away from that as fast as possible.
So yeah , not ever going to make my list of 15 but visually and in theory they were going to be fucking great. Also they had an amazing entrance for sure.
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Post by Baker on May 22, 2019 17:40:21 GMT
Oh goodie. I've been looking forward to this one.
The Wyatts completely slipped my mind when coming up with my list. Doubt they make it anyway. Seems like they were a million dollar idea with 10 cent execution. I was a fan though. Loved their vignettes. They also had a great aesthetic and a great theme. All 3 4 guys looked the part. They, along with Goldust, actually had me paying a little bit of attention to WWE in 2013-14. I'd have pushed them to the moon. Bray would have been my champion and Rowan/Harper my tag champs for like a year.
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Post by thereallt on May 22, 2019 17:43:29 GMT
I always though Rowan was a little underrated in the ring. His job was to be a hoss, and he played a very convincing one, to me definitely more convincing than Harper was, who IMO wrestled with a little too much finesse for a bigger guy.
Overall I had the Wyatt's at #13 on my list, so # 15 overall I think is a good ranking for them. Fantastic ring entrance, and their feud with the Shield kicked ass.
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Post by KING KID on May 22, 2019 18:57:46 GMT
The Wyatt Family was fucking awesome.
I bought the Sheep Mask and everything. The moment the feud began with the Wyatts and the Shield was fucking epic. That was the best feud in the last decade.
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Post by Big Pete on May 22, 2019 18:59:59 GMT
The Wyatt Family were #9 on my list.
When the Wyatt Family first debuted on FCW with Eli Cottonwood as the initial muscle of the group I was spellbound. Finally this generation had their own version of Jake 'The Snake' Roberts in Bray Wyatt and his promos and mannerisms were so unlike anything else in Pro Wrestling. Cottonwood was eventually shown the door and they brought in Luke Harper and Erick Rowan who were great additions and before long they were on SummerSlam working an Inferno match with Kane.
It's really difficult to distinguish the past 10 or so years of Raw since it's largely remained the same show for so long, but I do remember 2013 being an especially strong year for the company and the Wyatt Family were a big part in that. Their vignettes were some of the best segments of any television show, period, so much so I thought they beat True Detective to the punch in regards to that American gothic feel. It isn't too often you can say that about Pro Wrestling beating a highly acclaimed television station like HBO but there you go.
I thought that trend continued well into 2014, when they broke them up for no good reason and I thought everybody was worse for it. It wasn't until they reunited that they started to gain some steam together again and they were one of the best things on SmackDown in 2016-17 before they ruined that with some really half-baked ideas.
Still it was three years of mostly good television, for a stable that was far more over than their push and I've got no doubt in my mind that there will be some team rated ahead of them who didn't have anywhere near their staying power, quality of matches or staying power.
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Post by 🤯 on May 22, 2019 19:00:05 GMT
Count me in with the Rowan day-oners!
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Post by Big Pete on May 22, 2019 19:10:29 GMT
Don't forget Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton were members as well. (Clearly UT hasn't)
I like that Daniel Bryan hasn't and has made Rowan the most fearsome Pitchfork reviewer in the world.
Every week I discover a new metal band.
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Post by UT on May 22, 2019 19:15:19 GMT
I hated the Bryan stuff at the time and was out on the WWE while the Orton stuff was happening I think.
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Post by KING KID on May 22, 2019 19:28:26 GMT
The Wyatt Family was fucking awesome. I bought the Sheep Mask and everything. The moment the feud began with the Wyatts and the Shield was fucking epic. That was the best feud in the last decade. I always wondered what type of person would buy that. Now I know. Like. Was there ever a circumstance (other than Halloween or a costume party) where you thought to yourself.. I’m going to wear the mask today? If so. Explain in detail please. I thought it was dope so I bought it. I buy stuff like that. It's hard as fuck to see in it, because the eye slits suck but it's still a horrifying thing to see standing above you naked.
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Post by Shootist on May 22, 2019 19:35:55 GMT
I actually did consider the Wyatt's for my last spot but echoing everyone else's sentiments it was a great idea that was pissed away by poor execution/booking. Probably the best thing to come along in WWE of the last 9 years when it comes to actually being larger than life characters and potential entertainment value.
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Post by Big Pete on May 22, 2019 19:38:05 GMT
I thought the Bryan stuff ultimately ended up great because you had that awesome moment at the end of the Daniel Bryan & Bray Wyatt vs. The Usos match. That got Daniel Bryan over as a legitimate star and was one of the first times in years the WWE had put together a moment that got somebody over to that level. The follow up at the Royal Rumble was also a fantastic match and between that and the Elimination Chamber PPV the Wyatt Family was white hot.
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Post by 🤯 on May 22, 2019 20:03:58 GMT
jTjohncenaGOAT touches on a really great point about lacking purpose. I think with the right purpose, the wins and losses don't even matter. I'm imagining this: Bray, Harper, and Rowan are three tortured souls who want the (wrestling) world to simply feel their shared pain. Bray is Heath Ledger just clad in Cape Fear garb: ultimately, all he wants is to just sit back in his rocker and watch the world burn. So, to this end, they employ seemingly wanton wreckless violence. Sometimes it costs them matches in the form of DQ. Other times maybe they're just defeated... but never beat, so they rally post-match and attack the unsuspecting face victors. McMahons or whoever the authority at the time is tries to impose some order, so they simply stop booking the Wyatts in matches. Doesn't stop the Wyatts from interfering in other matches and wreaking havoc though. Ultimately this leads to the Wyatts' suspension and banning from arenas. No sweat, we drop some awesome vignettes. First, the Wyatts issue ominous warnings from the compound: let us back, or else! But those threats so ignored. So they say fuck the McMahons and their artificial authority. No man really owns anything in this world, and certainly not another man's will. So the Wyatts get creative and take things beyond the limits of the Universe. Maybe they call out John Cena and wreck shit on Total Bellas or some Make a Wish event. Maybe they pull an evil Orton and target McMahons at home in Connecticut... maybe fucking shit up while Linda is babysitting the grand kids? Maybe attacking Shane and his wife in their home, prompting Shane to return to the WWE fold. Maybe defecating on some graves in some cemetery that supposedly means something to Undertaker. Who knows... could be anything. Finally, whoever's in charge cracks and is willing to make a compromise. If the Wyatts stop terrorizing shit in the "real world" they'll be allowed back and granted their one-off demands in exchange for them behaving themselves like normal superstars. The powers that be have now taken the Wyatt bait. Bray wants a world title shot for himself and a tag title shot for his flock. For the sake of example, let's say Cena is world champ and Usos are tag champs. Don't know who else could be options from the actual timeline. Anyway... it's all agreed to, but Vince's ego gets the better of him at the last minute and he layers on a final stip: if Bray loses, Wyatts are disbanded. Bray accepts. Let's say the tag title match happens on a RAW, and Vince dispatches interference and crooked refereeing to fuck Harper and Rowan. In response, Bray gets the world title match made into Hell in a Cell with a special ref to ostensibly prevent a repeat of such chicanery. Dunno who you make the ref... whoever fits in with other concurrent storylines. Anyway, long story short, Harper and Rowan exact revenge from being screwed by finding a way into HIAC to help Bray win the title. Now with the belt as hostage, Bray has all the leverage to do as he pleases. If Vince strips him of the title, he still has the belt -- and it's still a symbol, and symbols are more powerful than any man. Bray can be fired for refusing to relinquish the belt, that's fine... he'll just take the belt on an indy world tour. I don't know where you go from here, but I can imagine the Wyatts having a face fan following up to this point. But then with the title and power going to Bray's head, he starts to get too extreme and losing fans. The heel heat comes back. And maybe the Authority's security force in the Shield is dispatched to take out the Wyatts, and they all do a double turn with Shield turning face and Wyatts reverting to full heel. Maybe it all culminates with Roman taking the title off Bray as a fully fan supported bad ass babyface no less. Or maybe Bray convinces dark demented Dean to heel turn on his brothers. Who knows...
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 20:48:07 GMT
jTjohncenaGOAT touches on a really great point about lacking purpose. I think with the right purpose, the wins and losses don't even matter. I'm imagining this: Bray, Harper, and Rowan are three tortured souls who want the (wrestling) world to simply feel their shared pain. Bray is Heath Ledger just clad in Cape Fear garb: ultimately, all he wants is to just sit back in his rocker and watch the world burn. So, to this end, they employ seemingly wanton wreckless violence. Sometimes it costs them matches in the form of DQ. Other times maybe they're just defeated... but never beat, so they rally post-match and attack the unsuspecting face victors. McMahons or whoever the authority at the time is tries to impose some order, so they simply stop booking the Wyatts in matches. Doesn't stop the Wyatts from interfering in other matches and wreaking havoc though. Ultimately this leads to the Wyatts' suspension and banning from arenas. No sweat, we drop some awesome vignettes. First, the Wyatts issue ominous warnings from the compound: let us back, or else! But those threats so ignored. So they say fuck the McMahons and their artificial authority. No man really owns anything in this world, and certainly not another man's will. So the Wyatts get creative and take things beyond the limits of the Universe. Maybe they call out John Cena and wreck shit on Total Bellas or some Make a Wish event. Maybe they pull an evil Orton and target McMahons at home in Connecticut... maybe fucking shit up while Linda is babysitting the grand kids? Maybe attacking Shane and his wife in their home, prompting Shane to return to the WWE fold. Maybe defecating on some graves in some cemetery that supposedly means something to Undertaker. Who knows... could be anything. Finally, whoever's in charge cracks and is willing to make a compromise. If the Wyatts stop terrorizing shit in the "real world" they'll be allowed back and granted their one-off demands in exchange for them behaving themselves like normal superstars. The powers that be have now taken the Wyatt bait. Bray wants a world title shot for himself and a tag title shot for his flock. For the sake of example, let's say Cena is world champ and Usos are tag champs. Don't know who else could be options from the actual timeline. Anyway... it's all agreed to, but Vince's ego gets the better of him at the last minute and he layers on a final stip: if Bray loses, Wyatts are disbanded. Bray accepts. Let's say the tag title match happens on a RAW, and Vince dispatches interference and crooked refereeing to fuck Harper and Rowan. In response, Bray gets the world title match made into Hell in a Cell with a special ref to ostensibly prevent a repeat of such chicanery. Dunno who you make the ref... whoever fits in with other concurrent storylines. Anyway, long story short, Harper and Rowan exact revenge from being screwed by finding a way into HIAC to help Bray win the title. Now with the belt as hostage, Bray has all the leverage to do as he pleases. If Vince strips him of the title, he still has the belt -- and it's still a symbol, and symbols are more powerful than any man. Bray can be fired for refusing to relinquish the belt, that's fine... he'll just take the belt on an indy world tour. I don't know where you go from here, but I can imagine the Wyatts having a face fan following up to this point. But then with the title and power going to Bray's head, he starts to get too extreme and losing fans. The heel heat comes back. And maybe the Authority's security force in the Shield is dispatched to take out the Wyatts, and they all do a double turn with Shield turning face and Wyatts reverting to full heel. Maybe it all culminates with Roman taking the title off Bray as a fully fan supported bad ass babyface no less. Or maybe Bray convinces dark demented Dean to heel turn on his brothers. Who knows... God I love this post so much. You need to do a modern WWE fan fic.
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Post by RT on May 22, 2019 23:28:16 GMT
This is why The Wyatt Family placed well on my list. I can't fault an amazing stable for being misused by the WWE machine. When they were in NXT they were mega over, yet didn't really accomplish a lot. They got called up rather quickly after they got over, all things considered, and the WWE Universe was handed this relatively unknown group of misfits that oozed charisma and could get it done in the ring. Then they just didn't do anything. They gave them a cool entrance and a bit of free time to do creepy vignettes. Then they were booked to lose, or thrown into messy storylines that would have one or two great matches (Wyatts vs. Shield and the whole Daniel Bryan angle were both incredibly messy but with good battles). Look at Bray's feud with John Cena. The kids surrounding the ring wearing sheep masks? Gold. Then Cena wins and it's over. Bray Wyatt did everything in his power to make the character and stable work, and I think he did a great job, but the booking was just awful and killed any momentum he was able to create. I can't take marks off for that, personally. Bray Wyatt might be the last great "larger than life" character the WWE ever sees and it's a damn shame because this stable deserved way better than they got. EDIT: Also to go alone with 🤯 's fantasy booking (one of the better ones I've seen in regards to the Wyatts) this would be an incredible avenue to lead to a feud with The Shield. It's even in the name of the stable. They're The Shield protecting the WWE. Boom. Feud is on and the story writes itself, then you get those incredible matches they put on.
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 15:41:56 GMT
I thought the Bryan stuff ultimately ended up great because you had that awesome moment at the end of the Daniel Bryan & Bray Wyatt vs. The Usos match. That got Daniel Bryan over as a legitimate star and was one of the first times in years the WWE had put together a moment that got somebody over to that level. The follow up at the Royal Rumble was also a fantastic match and between that and the Elimination Chamber PPV the Wyatt Family was white hot. Wasn't Bryan already incredibly over before the Wyatt angle and that's the initial reason why fans were pissed , because they decided to go with Bray vs Bryan instead of the obvious Yes Movement? I have a hard time remembering the order of things but I know people hated the Bray shit at the time aside from the awesome visual of the cage match. Either way I'm not sure The Wyatt family deserves a ton of credit for that , I think you put Bryan in that situation with anyone at the time and that was going to be the result.
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Post by KING KID on May 23, 2019 15:53:19 GMT
I honestly was not a fan of DB joining the Wyatt Family. I feel like that was the beginning of the end of the awesome aura to the faction.
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 16:10:06 GMT
14. Right to Censor
**34 points** (5 lists)
Active 2000 - 2001
Members Steven Richards The Goodfather Val Venis Ivory Bull Buchanan The Kat
Notable Rivals Chyna Mr. Ass Too Cool Rikishi
Notable Matches Ivory vs Trish vs Lita vs Jacqueline (Women's Championship) Right to Censor vs Billy Gun , The Rock & Chyna (Smackdown 2000) Team Extreme vs Right To Censor (Tag Team and Womens Championship)
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 16:14:18 GMT
I'm so happy Right to Censor made the list and not even just to spite Big Pete, it's because they were such a great little faction that made so much sense for the era that they were in as heels. Call it cheap , call it whatever you want but they were effective and the group was actually full of talented guys. The idea of turning the pimp and the pornstar right away were brilliant as well and gave credibility and extra oomph to the gimmick. I had them a little higher but just happy they ended up making the list.
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Post by Big Pete on May 23, 2019 16:16:11 GMT
I thought the Bryan stuff ultimately ended up great because you had that awesome moment at the end of the Daniel Bryan & Bray Wyatt vs. The Usos match. That got Daniel Bryan over as a legitimate star and was one of the first times in years the WWE had put together a moment that got somebody over to that level. The follow up at the Royal Rumble was also a fantastic match and between that and the Elimination Chamber PPV the Wyatt Family was white hot. Wasn't Bryan already incredibly over before the Wyatt angle and that's the initial reason why fans were pissed , because they decided to go with Bray vs Bryan instead of the obvious Yes Movement? I have a hard time remembering the order of things but I know people hated the Bray shit at the time aside from the awesome visual of the cage match. Either way I'm not sure The Wyatt family deserves a ton of credit for that , I think you put Bryan in that situation with anyone at the time and that was going to be the result. The WWE had cooled Bryan off by screwing him over on four consecutive PPVs. The Wyatt Family angle was designed to put Bryan on a bus so the WWE could have their Drax/Orton Wrestlemania XXX match. The fans weren't buying into it, culminating in that Steel Cage match which was one of the few scripted moments that over-delivered. Bryan had won multiple World Championships by this point, but wasn't seen as a star per the analytics. However, this was a megastar reaction and it was too big to ignore it.
Bryan is amazing, but if you wrote a similar angle with the Three Man Band, I have a difficult time seeing the fans being as emotionally invested. The only stables capable of drawing that type of reaction around that time would have been The Shield or the Wyatt Family.
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Post by KING KID on May 23, 2019 16:31:00 GMT
First group to ever give me blue balls.
I legit hated them as a kid. They kept ruining my moments of PUPPIES and it would drive me and my hormones crazy.
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Post by Big Pete on May 23, 2019 17:07:30 GMT
I see Right To Censor as a decent crew of talent who had nothing better to do at the time. However, the gimmick was lazy third-rate cheap heat at it's worse. The Dungeon of Doom eat their lunch.
Then. Now. Forever.
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 17:13:12 GMT
I see Right To Censor as a decent crew of talent who had nothing better to do at the time. However, the gimmick was lazy third-rate cheap heat at it's worse. The Dungeon of Doom eat their lunch.
Then. Now. Forever.
The gimmick was great and tailor made for the era it was in. Perhaps if it was around in the overly sterilized era or today I’d agree but they were such a great little foil for the ultra violent , super sexualized era of the WWF.
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Post by Big Pete on May 23, 2019 17:29:53 GMT
It was a lazy protest that generated little to no memorable content other than a few hack think pieces on why years after the fact RTC were actually a great stable.
No, fans had it right the first time. They were a below par copy of a copy who did little to entertain the masses. Anybody who can compile a Top 10 RTC moments list is a goddamn liar.
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 17:38:50 GMT
So you’re going to put an arbitrary number of moments in order for a stable to be completely effective? What are The Wyatt’s top ten moments? If you can come up with then you’re a liar and they suck because you can’t.
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Post by Big Pete on May 23, 2019 17:56:47 GMT
So everybody says, but Right To Censor didn't even come close to any of the Wyatt Family vs. Shield matches let alone the Wyatt Family vs The Usos, Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan, Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena etc. Even Bray Wyatt vs. Roman Reigns had it's moments of being genuinely unsettling.
Right To Censor has? The stupid segment where they had JR do the Owen voice for Chyna's neck injury. Then the segment they aped from WCW where the Dudley Boyz pretended to join the stable only to double cross them ala DDP on the nWo. Do those moments really hold up better than Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan?
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Post by RT on May 23, 2019 17:56:58 GMT
This is why The Wyatt Family placed well on my list. I can't fault an amazing stable for being misused by the WWE machine. When they were in NXT they were mega over, yet didn't really accomplish a lot. They got called up rather quickly after they got over, all things considered, and the WWE Universe was handed this relatively unknown group of misfits that oozed charisma and could get it done in the ring. Then they just didn't do anything. They gave them a cool entrance and a bit of free time to do creepy vignettes. Then they were booked to lose, or thrown into messy storylines that would have one or two great matches (Wyatts vs. Shield and the whole Daniel Bryan angle were both incredibly messy but with good battles). Look at Bray's feud with John Cena. The kids surrounding the ring wearing sheep masks? Gold. Then Cena wins and it's over. Bray Wyatt did everything in his power to make the character and stable work, and I think he did a great job, but the booking was just awful and killed any momentum he was able to create. I can't take marks off for that, personally. Bray Wyatt might be the last great "larger than life" character the WWE ever sees and it's a damn shame because this stable deserved way better than they got. EDIT: Also to go alone with 🤯 's fantasy booking (one of the better ones I've seen in regards to the Wyatts) this would be an incredible avenue to lead to a feud with The Shield. It's even in the name of the stable. They're The Shield protecting the WWE. Boom. Feud is on and the story writes itself, then you get those incredible matches they put on. God damn it I just keep remembering so many moments of when Bray Wyatt/The Wyatt Family could have told such a great story. Remember when Bray Wyatt literally brought The Undertaker back to life? Remember all the creepy shit they did? Bray was quite literally a necromancer, then The Undertaker just beat him at Wrestlemania the year after the streak ended and...nothing. Why not have The Undertaker walk out and beat the living hell out of Bray? "I had finally found rest. I was finally resting in peace. I didn't want this." The Undertaker takes his frustrations out on Bray, like he's angry that he can't die. Have Bray Wyatt in a sort of "Jeff Hardy not staying down" moment, cackling at The Undertaker as he tries to leave. Bray just won't stop laughing, like the interrogation scene in The Dark Knight. "YOU HAVE NOTHING! Nothing to do with all your strength..."Now The Undertaker is destined to walk the earth forever and it's all Bray Wyatt's fault. He hates Bray Wyatt for it and if The Undertaker isn't going to do any other dates, bring in Brock because he's pissed at Bray for ruining his win, where he was the one who laid The Undertaker to rest. Bray reunites the Family to defend himself against Brock. .... Right To Censor placed well on my list. Arguably the most underrated stable of all-time. They were amazing and had so many good moments, and were a great idea of a sort of "fuck you" to the people who were against the WWE at the time. The Dudleyz turning on RTC is still one of my top mark-out moments of all-time. I lost my goddamn mind.
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Post by Big Pete on May 23, 2019 18:00:43 GMT
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Post by UT on May 23, 2019 18:16:52 GMT
So that means it can’t be done again?
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