Are there any good ones? Seems like all the famous frustrations have to do with water. The seaweed of the Ninja Turtles. Goddamned Water Temple. Sonic slowdown. WHY DO THEY KEEP DOING THIS?

Forget Water Levels, what about Water games?

That's a Top 20 Nobi game. For years I always presumed it was a pretty chill game, learning it has some weird conspiracy stuff blew my mind.

Otherwise it's seriously a good question. Banjo Kazooie has Clanker's Cavern, one of the more memorable stages in the game because you have a giant mechanical shark that turns out to be completely friendly. It's also super easy to drown in and the music builds up pretty spectacularly. I think Jolly Roger's Bay fixes a lot of issues by taking the drowning mechanic out of it and introducing a technique that makes swimming faster.

Mario 64 has Dire, Dire Docks with arguably the best song in the entire game.

Donkey Kong Country has a similar mechanic and gives you a sword-fish to ride around on. It becomes a proto-shoot em up with a lot of projectiles which makes it enjoyable enough.

Can you tell I'm spit-balling? I hated the Majora's Mask Water Dungeon as well with all the currents. It's so easy to get lost, especially when you're going on a complenist run and trying to collect all the fairies in the dungeon. The boss is also terrifying since it will drag you into the water like jaws and just looks terrifying.

The Donkey Kong 64 Water Level was something of a slog from memory.

Nobody liked Mario Sunshine or Wind Waker on launch. Or at least professed to liking it until it was acceptable.

"7.8 too much water" Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire.

Yeah and I think 90% of my starters were always Fire. It's bad enough Ness' last name literally has Water in it.

Memory wise I remember not hating any underwater sections in Banjo. God, I loved those games...

Wave Race 64, baby!

Water levels aren't bad just that difficult spike on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles scarred every person of that time period. Now even developers are subconsciously trying to give that pain to newer generations.

Good
Mario 64 water levels were pretty good.

Bad:
And Sonic 06 Kingdom Valley speed zone I count as a water level and while that was a pain it felt amazing beating it after my headache went away the following morning. *If anyone looks up the level this part will most likely be the final two minutes not the whole level.

Sept 7, 2019 16:50:08 GMT @ness said:

Yeah and I think 90% of my starters were always Fire. It's bad enough Ness' last name literally has Water in it.

Memory wise I remember not hating any underwater sections in Banjo. God, I loved those games...

Clanker’s Cavern was a nightmare for me as A kid

I liked that DKCR had no water, so of course they added super hard water levels to TF

The worst levels in the Kingdom Hearts game were typically Atlantica. Combat in Kingdom Hearts relies heavily on aerial combos, so removing the jump mechanic in place of the swim mechanic limits the combat spectacularly. The second form of the Ursula fight relies heavily on spamming stop, otherwise it's one of the worst instances of waiting for your window and slowly chipping away at a boss' health. In KH2, Atlantica becomes an infamously bad rhythm sidequest.

Both levels are optional, that's how much pride Square put into those levels.

So far, the DKC Trilogy is the only games where I'd consider the water levels bearable. That's largely because they introduced interesting mechanics or gave you a different mode that made travelling through those levels more intuitive.

The issue with water levels then is that they tend to restrict movement while offering little else in return. As speed running has shown, the quicker players can traverse a level and apply their skills the more enjoyment they'll derive from the levels.

Strangely, if you freeze the water and turn it into a ice level, they tend to receive a better wrap. Compare Freezeezy Peak to Clanker's Cavern for example and players tend to have fonder memories of the former.

Donkey Kong Country generally did water levels well. Also Mario tends to have the best water levels in gaming.

But yeah, water levels tend to be the worst levels, only topped in tedium by escort missions (or throwing shit like RTS sections in non-RTS games). Can't think of many that stand out to an enjoyable degree.

You want bad water level, play Mega Man Legends 2. Awful doesn't put into perspective how bad that was. Makes the Water Temple of OOT(N64) look like child's play. Framerate drops to under 10 at least, jumping is completely immobilized in that portion of the game and the overall dungeon is a massive slag altogether.

Sept 7, 2019 16:50:08 GMT @ness said:

Yeah and I think 90% of my starters were always Fire. It's bad enough Ness' last name literally has Water in it.

Memory wise I remember not hating any underwater sections in Banjo. God, I loved those games...

Rusty Bucket Bay gets a giant sigh every time from me...great theme and all doesn't save it for me on an all jiggy completion run.

Sept 9, 2019 1:02:29 GMT Blindy said:

Sept 7, 2019 16:50:08 GMT @ness said:

Yeah and I think 90% of my starters were always Fire. It's bad enough Ness' last name literally has Water in it.

Memory wise I remember not hating any underwater sections in Banjo. God, I loved those games...

Rusty Bucket Bay gets a giant sigh every time from me...great theme and all doesn't save it for me on an all jiggy completion run.

That level was a nightmare, especially the engine room section

I don't have any memories of anything overly frustrating other than Canary Mary. Afraid to do a replay due to how disappointed I was in Yooka Laylee.

The water levels in Crash Bandicoot: Warped are my least favourite in the game. The ones where you are snorkeling around underwater. They are not notoriously difficult, just paced a lot more slowly than the other levels and often you are hanging around waiting for obstacles to get out of your way.

The other water levels in that game - the jetski levels - are pretty cool.

I didn't consider Rusty Bucket Bay, the main mechanic of the level is to discourage swimming and the majority of the level is spent on the ship. The propeller jiggy is by far the toughest challenge in the game, albeit there is a glitch that makes it easy. Next to the switch there's a clear glass window you can jump through on the side, sparing you the return trip through the difficult rotating foot-paths.

It's still the one level where I typically have to restart. Once you're through the engine room, the rest of the level is simple enough, but if you're too slow or get one of your jumps slightly wrong you're screwed.

Was it Emperor who recently played Banjo and thought the game was overrated trash? By recently I mean 3-5 years ago? That's a concerning sign, but as somebody who grew up with the game, I find it very easy to revisit, especially since it's relatively short. I found Tooie to be a slog, even when you know what you're doing, each level starts off with you having to unlock all the different rooms before you can actually engage with any of the platforming. Even then, the game seems bored with the idea of platforming and will make you play a bunch of Mario Party style mini-games or Goldeneye esque FPS levels.

Sept 9, 2019 6:50:25 GMT Big Pete said:

Was it Emperor who recently played Banjo and thought the game was overrated trash? By recently I mean 3-5 years ago?

Sounds about right, but I don't think I was that harsh.

I definitely remember you lowering the kneepad on Banjo, Emp. I can't even recall why either...too bland? Not as focused as Crash? Either way, my inner 8 year old was fuming.

Then again, I came into the game with lowered expectations. Diddy Kong Racing was my first game on the N64 and Banjo was by far the most annoying character in the game. As soon as I heard he was getting his own game and it was called Banjo Kazooie I thought it was going to be the single most insufferable piece of media introduced. It just sounded like a game that was going to be too zany for it's own good and I imagined Cotton Eye Joe on loop.

Then one day I come across multiple copies at my video store and was instantly transfixed.

I instantly recognised the fairytale motif with the Hansel and Gretal type witch and the presence of a shaman and mythic creature caught my eye. Against all prior expectations I put off all other rentals and zeroed in on it. Have you ever played a game with your mouth aghast the entire time? That was me and Banjo. From the Teddy Bear's Picnic theme, to the vibrant graphics, the wonderful sound design and the best method of travel in 3D the Talon Trot. As soon as I learned that move, Banjo jumped up two points.

I had an opportunity to buy it, but passed over it for Clayfighter 63 1/3 (one of the worst decisions I've ever made in all honesty). I rented it out a few more times when it was a new release before I just moved onto the next shiny toy. I wouldn't pick it up again until I bought it pre-owned around 2003 and I can't recall actually beating the game until 2009. There was some Brodie Jenner show on in the background where he was attempting to find a new best friend to replace Spencer Pratt which felt oddly relevant at that time. :lol: It's funny how you remember what was happening in the background when you play old games. I have so many TNA memories from playing old N64 games during uni.

Enough thread hijacking. One of the most disappointing water levels of all-time was World 3 of Super Mario Bros 3. The game introduces a water specific upgrade, the frog suit. In the cartoon adaptation it actually had it's own theme and everything leading me to believe it was one of the more useful items in the game. Well, it's only ever useful in the water and since the level is so projectile based and the frog suit gives you a bigger hit-box, the item is virtually useless. On land Mario doesn't move as quickly, eniticing you to take the hit so you can move more freely.

I also hated the gimmick where a big fish would try and eat you. The predator mechanic created so much unncessary anxiety and even when you take it down, it always comes back. Lakitu's at least gave you a chance, actually getting eaten alive bugged me.