In recent years I feel like I have turned the corner on pet ownership.  I understand that there are some working class dogs, but outside of that I have gone from a guy who regularly had dogs and prided myself on having very well behaved dogs to a guy who doesn't think people should "own" dogs.

It started initially with me realizing that with my career it would not be practical for me to have a dog again.  Or more to the fact it would be unfair to the dog.  I, at first, thought the 10 hours I spent away from home was too cruel on the dog.  Even, 5-6 hours or letting it out every 4 every hours seemed cruel.  Then it expanded to the fact of having it live on unnatural surfaces.  Finally, I reached a point when I thought I would only have a dog if I could have it out in the woods, on a hobby farm, so it could chase critters all day and be as free as possible.

Then recently I turned even more around the corner.  A friend of mine posted something about cropping dogs tails and casting dogs ears.  And I really thought of how stupid it is to breed an animal for less than maximum survival.  Plenty of dog breeds are bred just to end up defective.  Whether it be shortened snouts prone to breathing problems or ears prone to infections.  It is just, way less than optimal.  

Of course, instead of shopping a dog, you can adopt a dog... But I am now hung up on the fact that animal shelters just perpetuate pet culture and the perpetuation of pet culture end of day results in tons of dogs being put down in shelters.  So, what's the point?  Just to keep breeding and killing?  Does the benefit outweigh the cost of cruelty and life?

Recently, my wife started watching the Animal Planet show, Too Cute.  Every episode they take the pups and show them being adopted by families.  But, the pup had a mother and father.  They break up a family for some selfish human.  I just see it as sad and shameful now.  Dogs are social, pack animals.  Breaking up their families seems dickish to me now.

I still wear dead animals, eat dead animals and such.  But I have given up on pet ownership.  I can no longer see it as much more than selfish and shitty to the dog.

If I didn't know you were a big city dweller, I would definitely be able to tell by this post.

It is absolutely not fair to own a dog while living in a home without a yard. I would love to own a dog, I don't have a yard but I live in a townhouse complex that has a shard yard do taking the dog out to do his business wouldn't be a problem, and I am 100 metres away from a mountian with running and biking trails. But - I work shift work and am gone from the house for 14 hours at a time and it would not be fair to leave the dog inside that long.

Not sure about other parts of the world. In British Columbia you are no longer allowed to crop dogs tails and I believe you can not alter thei ears anymore either.

I find the idea that you can eat animals but find it cruel to own an animal a tad ridiculous. I eat meat and dairy, so I’m not going on about this in a moral or ethical way. I just don’t understand how me owning a dog is similar to animal cruelty to him?

My dog named Bones, is 8 years old. I helped raise him and his brothers and sister from the moment they were born. Their father didn’t belong to us, we were just babysitting, and we didn’t realise the mother was pregnant when they got the dog back. After Bones’ mother gave birth she became oddly violent. She tried to kill the pups (unfortunately we did lose two (one was a stillbirth and one she killed) the rest (4) we kept under constant surveillance and sat with her and them. She suddenly passed away, we still don’t know what happened/the vet couldn’t tell us either.

We hand fed the 4 pups, they cried and helped in their sleep at night and we nursed them so they would sleep. We helped them grow up, we walked them/played with them. We fell in love with them - and they definitely fell in love with us. Each dog picked their human. Bones wouldn’t leave my side and would panic if I was away for too long. Phantom picked my step Dad and would only sleep after they said goodnight to each other. Little Wolf picked my mum and is glued to her side every second of the day. The last dog Missy, she was the independent girl and loved all of us equally, we found her a loving home on a farm where she is free to run everywhere, she loves all the farm animals. She plays on the trampoline and loves the kids.

I truely believe we gave our dogs the best possible life that we could.
For you to say that I do more harm to my dog than good because he is my ‘pet’ is honestly baffling. Bones is beyond spoilt, honestly too spoilt sometimes. He goes for walks, constant drives, he sleeps on all the beds, he eats plenty of his food plus ours, I take him to the beach, he gets a bath whenever he wants one, he has a lot of different treats and the house is full of his stuffed animals. He is - no matter how ridiculous this may sound - my child.

I don’t believe wild animals should be kept as pets, I don’t believe foreign/exotic animals should be forced into habitats that are harmful to their life.

But my dog is not a wild dog, he has full freedom to our house he hates when his food bowl is empty, he doesn’t like when it’s too hot or too cold. He wouldn’t survive in the wild, a lot of ‘pets’/fur babies wouldn’t survive in the wild. This is why I truly believe that it’s OK to have animals as pets, and especially if that animal picks you.

sandylea, so, just because your dog is a domesticated version of a wolf you feel like it is ok? To give it nothing of its wolf self by having all the creature comforts it has. That's not meant to be harsh, but even as a human I feel we all need to give up some of our creature comforts to make us stronger. Sorry, I am Wim Hoff. I think humans have become too soft and your dog is living way too soft. He is a wolf. Or maybe we should have never domesticated wolves in my opinion. Maybe it's not too late, we can give up pet culture and not keep domesticated wolves in the house and let wolves be wolves.

The important note is everything I said was just about how it fit me. And questioning the overall benefit of pet culture. You may have done right by an emergency situation. But it is anecdotal to the overall negative side of the culture. Your situation could have been prevented and never needed to happen.

We can't really unring the bell of domesticating animals. Do we just let dogs die-out? Do we euphanize them all to right the ship? C'mon. This is a weak moral exercise at best.

Nov 30, 2019 0:36:30 GMT KJ said:

We can't really unring the bell of domesticating animals. Do we just let dogs die-out? Do we euphanize them all to right the ship? C'mon. This is a weak moral exercise at best.

Nope, it's just me stating how I feel and how my feelings have changed. That's all. We can just unring the bell of domesticating animals. Why not?

Nov 30, 2019 1:52:26 GMT theend said:

Nov 30, 2019 0:36:30 GMT KJ said:

We can't really unring the bell of domesticating animals. Do we just let dogs die-out? Do we euphanize them all to right the ship? C'mon. This is a weak moral exercise at best.

Nope, it's just me stating how I feel and how my feelings have changed. That's all. We can just unring the bell of domesticating animals. Why not?

Because your act of benevolence is the equivalent of euthanizing a bunch of domesticated creatures by releasing them into the wild.

Nov 30, 2019 1:53:50 GMT KJ said:

Nov 30, 2019 1:52:26 GMT theend said:

Nope, it's just me stating how I feel and how my feelings have changed. That's all. We can just unring the bell of domesticating animals. Why not?

Because your act of benevolence is the equivalent of euthanizing a bunch of domesticated creatures by releasing them into the wild.

Let the record show I did not recommend euthanasia or releasing them into the wild. Just like the end of slavery did not need to end with the mass murder of slaves or the release of slaves with no structure. The ending of pet culture can be handled in sane and selective ways. There are more options than your ultimatums.

I'm reminded of a Seinfeld bit where he says the dogs run the show since we pick up their poop and walk around with it in bags. Maybe it is US who are the pets. Certainly the case with cats. With the west's falling birth rates and as we socially isolate ourselves more and more... "pet culture" I feel is only going to grow. Whenever people bring up up true companionship, it's always dogs.

Nov 30, 2019 6:12:21 GMT theend said:

Nov 30, 2019 1:53:50 GMT KJ said:

Because your act of benevolence is the equivalent of euthanizing a bunch of domesticated creatures by releasing them into the wild.

Let the record show I did not recommend euthanasia or releasing them into the wild. Just like the end of slavery did not need to end with the mass murder of slaves or the release of slaves with no structure. The ending of pet culture can be handled in sane and selective ways. There are more options than your ultimatums.

While I’m not surprised you would compare slaves and pets, let the record show they are absolutely nothing alike.

It's just an example of something that was an institution that is no longer. Other example would be large sanitariums and asylums.

I was brainstorming, we could return dogs to packs of random dogs like Cesar Milan has his pack and have them used for hunting wild boar in Texas.

That covers two of the big bases for me. Dogs and wolves are pack animals and hunters. Not soft pets.


Stop funding shelters. Lead a media campaign against the culture of pets. Give better alternatives. Etc.

I'm still lol'ing at the fact you eat animals but are upset we adopt puppies.

Clearly you're delineating dogs from cattle. You know why? One is domesticated and one is not.

Nope, eating animals is practical. Having one in your house is not. Is that hard?

The probable million dogs put down each year are put down just for indulgence. Not food.

I eat venison. Deer are wild. Mmmmm wild caught salmon.

Nov 30, 2019 17:57:58 GMT KJ said:

I'm still lol'ing at the fact you eat animals but are upset we adopt puppies.

Clearly you're delineating dogs from cattle. You know why? One is domesticated and one is not.

Both are domesticated. They just serve different purposes.

Nov 30, 2019 20:03:41 GMT NATH45 said:

Nov 30, 2019 17:57:58 GMT KJ said:

I'm still lol'ing at the fact you eat animals but are upset we adopt puppies.

Clearly you're delineating dogs from cattle. You know why? One is domesticated and one is not.

Both are domesticated. They just serve different purposes.

Cattle isn’t domesticated, it’s farmed. Difference.

Nov 30, 2019 20:09:56 GMT KJ said:

Nov 30, 2019 20:03:41 GMT NATH45 said:

Both are domesticated. They just serve different purposes.

Cattle isn’t domesticated, it’s farmed. Difference.

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.

www.cambridgeblog.org/2016/02/cattle-domestication-from-aurochs-to-cow/

Nov 30, 2019 22:50:10 GMT NATH45 said:

Nov 30, 2019 20:09:56 GMT KJ said:

Cattle isn’t domesticated, it’s farmed. Difference.

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.

www.cambridgeblog.org/2016/02/cattle-domestication-from-aurochs-to-cow/

Noted.

So to revise my point: are we ending livestock as well? Or just killing off petcare?

just pet culture and strawmen

Dec 1, 2019 2:29:00 GMT theend said:

just pet culture and strawmen

Straw men?

Are we bringing up human slavery again?

Nov 29, 2019 21:17:44 GMT theend said:

sandylea, so, just because your dog is a domesticated version of a wolf you feel like it is ok? To give it nothing of its wolf self by having all the creature comforts it has. That's not meant to be harsh, but even as a human I feel we all need to give up some of our creature comforts to make us stronger. Sorry, I am Wim Hoff. I think humans have become too soft and your dog is living way too soft. He is a wolf. Or maybe we should have never domesticated wolves in my opinion. Maybe it's not too late, we can give up pet culture and not keep domesticated wolves in the house and let wolves be wolves.

The important note is everything I said was just about how it fit me. And questioning the overall benefit of pet culture. You may have done right by an emergency situation. But it is anecdotal to the overall negative side of the culture. Your situation could have been prevented and never needed to happen.

Your argument is baffling. My dog is domesticated through and though, there is no part of wolf in him. If he was to be released in the wild as you say - he would die. He refuses to eat any food that we don’t personally give him because years ago our neighbours purposely tried to bait our dogs and he required surgery to fix it. Your argument is basically that we should let the dogs find their own food/comfort and if anything happens to them, then oh well?

Yeah I’m 100% not ok with that. Domesticated animals need us as much as we need them, even some wild animals need us. They want us for companionship, love, care, and food/shelter as well. The only negative impact to having pets is when horrible people abandoned their pets/treat their pets horribly/let them starve/abuse them. Those who have pets that love and care for them and treat them as if they are a child... to say it’s against the animals nature, honesty. This argument is wacko.

We cannot go back on animals being domesticated unless you plan to let all domesticated animals die out, which will never happen. Pet culture doesn’t exist, pets become family. Animals being a part of someone’s family is the norm

Nov 30, 2019 19:54:59 GMT theend said:

Nope, eating animals is practical. Having one in your house is not. Is that hard?

The probable million dogs put down each year are put down just for indulgence. Not food.

I eat venison. Deer are wild. Mmmmm wild caught salmon.

I feel like you’re saying if we eat all the dogs that we put down it’d be ok.

Relevant: www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/06/domesticated-cats-dna-genetics-pets-science/?fbclid=IwAR2snOMsVTeAypAUsH4RX_J0bLC4qEETlbC5Kq7TYEx3PMztvgoSgBFTLTY

I'm all for banning puppy farms and breeding dogs in a way that causes cruel health issues for the sake of the dog being a cute breed.

Apart from that... I'm honestly not fussed that Korean people eat dogs or that the Japanese eat whales. I can't judge another culture against my own subjective criteria.

Dec 6, 2019 5:01:49 GMT iNCY said:

I'm all for banning puppy farms and breeding dogs in a way that causes cruel health issues for the sake of the dog being a cute breed.

Apart from that... I'm honestly not fussed that Korean people eat dogs or that the Japanese eat whales. I can't judge another culture against my own subjective criteria.

Can you judge a culture that is cruel to women of lgbtq+?

Dec 6, 2019 13:32:15 GMT theend said:

Dec 6, 2019 5:01:49 GMT iNCY said:

I'm all for banning puppy farms and breeding dogs in a way that causes cruel health issues for the sake of the dog being a cute breed.

Apart from that... I'm honestly not fussed that Korean people eat dogs or that the Japanese eat whales. I can't judge another culture against my own subjective criteria.

Can you judge a culture that is cruel to women of lgbtq+?

I think you missed the point, I was saying eating a dog is no different to a pig.
So in that analogy, I am anti capital punishment of people full stop.

I gotcha, I took "I can't judge another culture against my own subjective criteria." As literal and out of context.

I too don't draw the lines of discrimination of species as food. Horse, dog, cat, whale, cute animal, turkey, sea creature etc. Aside for geoduck. No one should eat that disgusting thing. What are you, sick?

End of day. I just feel more and more that the perpetuation of pet culture causes more suffering and death to animals than good it does for the animals.

Dec 6, 2019 15:42:47 GMT theend said:

End of day. I just feel more and more that the perpetuation of pet culture causes more suffering and death to animals than good it does for the animals.

Can you actually quantify this?

Dec 6, 2019 19:04:12 GMT KJ said:

Dec 6, 2019 15:42:47 GMT theend said:

End of day. I just feel more and more that the perpetuation of pet culture causes more suffering and death to animals than good it does for the animals.

Can you actually quantify this?

Sure, how would you like me to quantify my feelings?