Didn't read like 2-3 posts above where Strobe flat-out posts the JAPW 6/7/02 match. I need to learn to open my eyes.

APW King of the Indies [10/27/01]: Low Ki vs. American Dragon

OK, so Low Ki is "Loki'" in this fed? Weird. At least that was a trippy little animation to hype his entrance. I don't know whether to love, hate, hate-love, or love-hate indy fed production quality and production issues. This sound is a nightmare. Anyway...

Ki is still rocking his black-and-white genie pants. That's good for consistency sake, I suppose. Control as many variables as possible.

OH! And here comes Dragon in some actual tights. And look at those bulging quads! For being a vegan 16-year-old runt, I gotta give DB credit for how built/defined he is.

God, even 185 lbs. sounds like a kayfabe inflated weight for DB. :lol:

DB's boots look a little weird here. What are those, mini kick pads?

And goodbye sound... oh and camera blackout, nice!

Ki with the shoulder tape before Cesaro tried too hard to make it a thing. Tape before tape was cool. Very Sabu-esque.

Either the sound for this is a lot shittier, or this crowd is more dead than ECWA's crowd. Maybe a combination of both.

Similar stalemate-ish start, and similar difficulties telling who's heel and who's face... although I have a feeling the roles are reversed this time around?

I mean, considering his in-ring style and just how he moves... and even how Low Ki evokes Bruce Lee through syllable count and rhyming... I feel like Ki should be the American Dragon, not DB. And while I was having that thought, that was one of the cooler front facelock fights I've seen to prevent a suplex attempt.

So far, I'm liking this match better than their previous encounter. It feels like they've both matured a bit, and are building on what they did before. This feels more like a legit wrestling match than their previous encounter too. I might be eating those words once they get to the high spots portion, but for now... I dig the attempts to make it seem more like actual wrestling.

Ki can use those damn lethal feet to get out of any predicament. Watching him, thinking of a Tajiri dream match... it all makes me wonder: Do we need a thread to discuss pro wrestling's best kickers/most educated feet?!

And a brief headbutt battle... the seeds to DB's early retirement continue to get planted.

Even though it's slower, this match deserves the crowd that the previous match had. The quiet spells where they're just sitting on their hands for some reason make this kinda awkward to watch at points.

I wonder what pro wrestlers would rather take... a bunch of flat back bumps, or these stiff kicks to the back? If nothing else, based on how they're sold, I'd take anything over the kicks to the back.

So since it's starting to peel off, it caught my attention and has me wondering... OH WAIT!

SNAP, NICE! DB just Ki'd Ki in the corner with Ki's cartwheel kick from their previous match. Callback, love it! And now Ki shows DB how it's really done. Ki's the fuckin' master.

Anyway... Ki's tape. What's its story? Was he actually hurt? Does it serve a storyline purpose or help match psychology? It doesn't seem to, if the latter is the case. And if he's legit hurt, he doesn't seem like he's letting any shoot injury slow him down here. Which you gotta respect.

Love that DB seems a little timid and slowed-down after having his head kicked outta the ring by Ki. He takes things to the mat to try to ground, pound, and slow things down. Interesting bridging submission that's unsustainable. Let's try something else... OK, Indian deathlock with some crossface blows and then a surfboard stretch. I dig it. This is making me really love whoever it was in Shin's thread that perfectly labelled DB as the indy scene's stretcher, Ki as the indy scene's striker, and Daniels as the indy scenes sports entertainer.

OK, this spot is fucking dumb as shit. Tangled-leg butterfly slap exchange while handstanding? C'mon, guys.

Nice suplex rolled pretty smoothly into an inverse dragon sleeper. That's better. And then holy shit... nice snap suplex(?) by DB. Although that looked more like a snap front facelock takeover or something. Then a crisp arm wringer.

I just peeked... we're only at the halfway point. This match is a little slow. I think it needed to start picking up in pace and building toward at least one frenzy by this point. It hasn't really felt frenzied at all yet. It can break back down into this agonizingly slow stuff after a frenzy, but gimme a lil sumpin-sumpin to get excited about guys.

And as soon as I say that, their solution is to go into the obligatory chop exchange.

Ki's rolling heel kick is one the best ways to end the dumb-as-fuck international/Irish whip spot.

DB battles out of a Ki Krusher attempt, gets the full nelson, somehow gets out onto the apron with it still applied... and if he hits this Dragon Suplex from the apron to the floor, I swear to god.

Damn. Ki counters with a pele kick. Despite loving Ki, I did kinda want to see him die via Dragon Suplex to the floor.

Ki rolls right through a phoenix splash. So fucking fluid. I love it.

Ah, fuck... same fucking issue again! with DB standing around WAY too long on the outside just waiting for Ki to hit his top rope move. And hitting two phoenix splashes in a row... I'm not sure how I feel about that. I know it's being nitpicky, but gimme some variety! A dope, high-as-hell Essa Rios/Super Crazy moonsault would've been perfect here!

And DB is right back to life, firing chops into Ki... who's now firing back. Shouldn't a phoenix splash to the outside be a finisher? Or shouldn't Ki at least be the first guy up, and roll DB's carcass into the ring?

I love DB's take on JYD's headbutts. And now I'm praying for a top rope Dragon Suplex. Meh.. just a regular ol' back suplex. But it was pretty cool. Good camera angle/zoom out for once. And the ring made a good noise. Finally the indy fed production quality control crew is getting their act together.

That was a weird looking Dragon Suplex, and the way DB let go and is selling it makes it seem like something went wrong? I dunno...

Anyway, back to the top rope for another back suplex because you can't fall from too high a height often enough on the indy scene. And Ki sloppily counters into a crossbody block. I think these guys are getting tired. Maybe 30+ minutes is too long for them to go.

Thank god, Ki slipped out of the Cattle Mutilation... which is so contrived. And BAM! with a Ki Krusher. Ki is too banged up to cover though, so I can excuse this for not ending DB here. If DB gets up and rallies though, I swear...

OK, good... DB is selling the Ki Krusher a bit. Just a bit. And then counters the cartwheel corner kick with a clever as hell baseball slide mid-cartwheel. And then locks in the Cattle Mutilation. I'm OK with that. As cool as it looks though, I'm really not a fan of the Cattle Mutilation. It looks like the world's least efficient submission hold. It looks like it's a pain to get into, takes a lot of effort to maintain, and probably doesn't hurt the victim all that much.

Dragon suplex into another Cattle Mutilation. DB has some room for improvement as far as how well he hits the Dragon Suplex and then seamlessly floats over into the Cattle Mutilation. But I like the premise, and it works as a setup for the convoluted hold. But seriously, DB should probably just look into adopting a different/more efficient submission hold.

This match makes it clear to me how it can help having an agent or DDP OCD to help structure and pace the match.

OH FUCK. Ki Krusher counter off the top rope. DB better, BETTER be dead. Ki crawling for the cover...

What. The. Fuck.

DB is still alive. And still hitting Dragon Suplexes, and still trying to make the Cattle Mutilation work. And it finally does.

Meh...

Not really a fan when I think about the logic behind this match, and especially the finish. First of all, the match would've really benefitted from being 10-15 minutes shorter and being more of a sprint at points. Second, the Cattle Mutilation essentially hinges on DB being able to bridge on his neck/head for sustained amounts of time. And so that's what he goes back to after getting dropped on his head with Ki's finisher off the top rope? Thank god he's at least selling some of the effects post-match.

Between the length, the slow parts, the lapses in psychology, and the production quality issues... I'm actually gonna rank this one below their previous encounter. At least their previous encounter was more forgivable for wasting less of my time, and for being their first match (so mistakes were more forgivable then).

Honestly, this has me a little nervous about their next two matches... but I'm also still optimistic, because 1) Low Ki is fucking bad ass, and 2) DB can be pretty solid in his own right, and 3) they're both students of the game, who seem like they have a passion for learning and evolving their craft. So here's hoping for some evolution next time out.

OK, I might be risking burnout from a highly concentrated dose, but fuck it... here we go!

JAPW 6/7/02: American Dragon vs. Low Ki

Well over a year since their first encounter, and DB's making more of an effort to evolve his look whereas Ki is apparently quite content with his black-and-white genie pants.

Oooo... commentary! JAPW is going all out with its production quality! And the crowd is relatively hot and audible!

This is a submissions-only match? Interesting spin on things. I like it. Here's hoping for the best.

I'm already liking this opening sequence the most out of the three bouts so far.

No idea yet who's heel/face here, but I feel like it's maybe reversed again with DB back to being the heel. That's not really a qualm though, because it makes it seem more like a real sport in that you just have rooting interests in the athletes (vs. there being a good guy and a bad buy).

Dragon Sleeper by the Dragon! Yes. There ya go, DB. Much better hold for you. Fuck that Cattle Mutilation noise.

This match is so far off to a MUCH better start than their previous two. I love that it's submissions-only. Sets this up to be more free in a way, despite the constraint. Fucking love this so far.

Nice knees to the back! Yeah, DB... you go, boi!

OK, so despite how awesome this match is so far, I need to say... DB in white trunks looks like a 10-year-old boy wrestling in his dad's whitey-tighties.

That's not a front chancery. That's a 3/4 Nelson. But so far, commentary has been really solid IMO and honestly even added to the match.

And now Ki takes control. And NICE! Hits Cattle Mutilation! Still hate the move, but love the psychology.

The pace of this match is exactly what their last match needed. It's not lightning fast, but it's moving along and keeping me engaged throughout.

The only thing I'm missing so far in this match is Ki's sweet kicking. Hopefully it comes into play somehow despite the submissions-only stipulation.

DB looking like he could give Deano Machino a run for his money for the Man of 1,000 Holds title.

BAM, BAM, BAM! Those crossface shivers while in the STF... love 'em! And DB just fish-hooked Ki's nostrils to maintain control. Loving the viciousness! And then what a unique spin on a bow-and-arrow hold. And then more crossface shots, and then a rear naked choke with grapevine... loving this meanstreak in DB!

Ki with the knees into DB's tailbone to free himself. This is great. This feels like a nasty, real fight.

FUCK! I was so hoping for an exploder there as the counter (instead of just ramming DB into the corner).

And now we get into Ki's striking. Yes... PLEASE! Light him up, Ki!

DB fights through Ki's knees into a Liontamer. God, I'm loving this. shinobimusashi, have you seen this match yet? You need to check it out ASAP if not. I think you'd love it. So fucking great.

Ki fighting off his back with those killer kicks. DB collapses into a grapevined rear naked choke! I love the tit-for-tat in this match.

What a counter into a unique surfboard. And now DB paint-brushing Ki with his foot. And now looks to be setting up some other sweet surfboard variation. DB has really evolved and upped his game it seems since 2001.

Loving the psychology here, all stemming from the stip. Commentators elaborate that it's tapout-only, so DB or Ki could pass out in a submission (likely a chokehold of some sort) and lose in a way but also not and thus still look strong and set up a future match. And they're allowed to go into all these interesting positions to fight for and apply and escape from holds that would otherwise be pinning predicaments in a normal match. The commentary and stip are really helping take the great action over the top in a great way. I'm fucking loving this.

Nice random one-off chop to DB's exposed side! Love Ki's nastiness. And know some knees into the downed DB's ribs. And then FLOWS right into a guguijubadeikooku (phonetic spelling based on what commentator called it) arm lock.

DB hits his Cattle Mutilation, and Ki was going for an almost-awesome counter but then it fell apart. I wonder what he was going for. Looked like it would've been cool.

Uh oh, now we're going to the outside. I'm waiting for DB to do his stand-there-forever deal. Fortunately, Ki just drops an elbow on DB from the apron. So far the brawling on the outside is acceptable. And props to the indy fed for their multiple cameras catching the action from decent angles at every turn.

Back in the ring, nice. No DB standing there forever on the outside. Ki and DB have learned!

What a fucking sweet STO by Ki. And then into his Dragon Sleeper. Now this looks like a nasty, efficient submission hold. Take note, DB.

And nice German outta nowhere by DB. And another. He hits these better than he hits Dragon Suplexes. Although the Dragon he just hit there was better than all the Dragons from their previous match. And DB keeps trying with the Cattle Mutilation. And he can't sustain it. Sometimes I think these indy guys try to be too cute and clever. I get the premise of the Cattle Mutilation, but surely something else would work just as well if not better.

DB fights off a Ki Krusher attempt... and then FUCKING SWEET! Ki forces DB to tap with Six Seconds of Magic (shoutout to No Mercy 64)!

This was easily the best Low Ki/American Dragon match. Huge gap between it and the 2001 matches. It was dope enough that now I'm nervous to watch the fourth match for fear that it won't hold up compared to this.

🤯 I'm loving it, I need to check these out.

I watched a few matches while on my treadmill today, caught Prince Devitt vs Low Ki from New Japan(can't remember exactly when, this was in a smaller building though, not the Tokyo Dome), which led me to Prince Devitt vs Kota Ibushi, which led me to AJ Styles vs Hiroshi Tanahashi from TNA. I was actually quite impressed with Devitt, I hate that name but I didn't know he was such a great high flyer/cruiserweight type. I remember dude was super popular among the fan fic boys back about 3 or 4 years ago when he was still in New Japan. The Low Ki match was really the only match I watched closely, I had the volume turned down and was listening to some music so I zoned out for most of the other matches(I'm sure I watched another Devitt match but can't remember which one exactly).

Excellent stuff 🤯 . I think that match would be right up shinobimusashi's alley. It is pretty much US shoot style.

🤯 Low Ki & Tajiri did have at least one match. I've never seen it but general consensus is it was disappointing. It's on YouTube.

I'll be back with more thoughts tomorrow, including maybe an early Low Ki & American Dragon Listmania for the curious.

I also want to watch & review a 1995 Bret vs. HOG Superstars match that I actually don't remember because some dude on another forum doing a Bret Hart 100 Greatest Matches thingie had it crazy high....above Harts/Quebecers, both Bret/Backlund matches & the Montreal Screwjob match!

Dec 13, 2017 0:58:00 GMT 🤯 said:

APW King of the Indies [10/27/01]: Low Ki vs. American Dragon

Not really a fan when I think about the logic behind this match, and especially the finish. First of all, the match would've really benefitted from being 10-15 minutes shorter and being more of a sprint at points. Second, the Cattle Mutilation essentially hinges on DB being able to bridge on his neck/head for sustained amounts of time. And so that's what he goes back to after getting dropped on his head with Ki's finisher off the top rope? Thank god he's at least selling some of the effects post-match.

If the match were 10-15 minutes shorter and more of a sprint, it would have been a copy of their first match, which I thought suffered a bit because of its length. Not that it was a bad match, I just thought there was a lot more potential there. That potential was mostly realised in the second match. I understand your complaints. The Dragon Suplex/Cattle Mutilation combo was done a little too much, but if you're trying to win a match, it's not a bad idea to keep throwing your best shots. Did you notice that Dragon relinquishe the Cattle Mutilation voluntarily a couple of times? That was him selling his beat up neck, not being able to maintain the hold forever. Not a perfect match but clearly I liked it a lot more than you did. That's fine.

Dec 13, 2017 9:16:19 GMT Emperor said:

Dec 13, 2017 0:58:00 GMT 🤯 said:

APW King of the Indies [10/27/01]: Low Ki vs. American Dragon

Not really a fan when I think about the logic behind this match, and especially the finish. First of all, the match would've really benefitted from being 10-15 minutes shorter and being more of a sprint at points. Second, the Cattle Mutilation essentially hinges on DB being able to bridge on his neck/head for sustained amounts of time. And so that's what he goes back to after getting dropped on his head with Ki's finisher off the top rope? Thank god he's at least selling some of the effects post-match.

If the match were 10-15 minutes shorter and more of a sprint, it would have been a copy of their first match, which I thought suffered a bit because of its length. Not that it was a bad match, I just thought there was a lot more potential there. That potential was mostly realised in the second match. I understand your complaints. The Dragon Suplex/Cattle Mutilation combo was done a little too much, but if you're trying to win a match, it's not a bad idea to keep throwing your best shots. Did you notice that Dragon relinquishe the Cattle Mutilation voluntarily a couple of times? That was him selling his beat up neck, not being able to maintain the hold forever. Not a perfect match but clearly I liked it a lot more than you did. That's fine.

Honestly I think a part of my gripes stemmed from the burnout of watching matches between the same guys so quick back to back.

I think another issue was the Indy fed production quality, because I feel like there were times where they'd go with a wide shot from far away and also sometimes lose sound... All of which added up to make it hard to pay full attention to fine details.

I did notice DB letting go and failing to sustain the bridge on previous Cattle Mutilation attempts, which had me hopeful they were building to something smarter than Ki hitting a top rope Krusher only for DB to go right into another bridge.

It's going right into a bridge after a mega head drop that bothered me most. I have no problem with DB sneaking a win out somehow after taking the top rope Krusher, or even having a final fiery comeback... I just wish it could've been in some way that didn't involve Superman's vertebrae. Plus, DB had done the Dragon Suplex/Cattle Mutilation so much by that point, neither really seemed like his best shot. I get that when you're exhausted it's hard to think and thus much more likely that you keep going back to the well, but in real life, that's the kind of thing that fucks you.

I don't know how exactly it would've worked, but DB turning that top rope Krusher into a small package counter for the pinfall somehow would've been more ideal, I think.

Fair point regarding the length of the second match helping to distinguish it from the first. Again, most of this gripe probably stems from issues beyond Ki and DB's control. It wasn't their fault I was a bit burned out from having literally just watched one of their matches. The Indy fed production quality where sound cuts out and the director opts for odd camera angles isn't their fault. Even the dead crowd isn't really their fault. They popped the crowd fine at points, but you could tell it was a smaller crowd and/or venue with worse acoustics and/or just not the same fanbase as ECWA or JAPW.

Realizing how much my burnout might've been playing into things, I decided to wait at least a night before getting to the ROH Round Robin. Might watch it tonight, but glimpsing that it's a 45-minute video has me a little nervous to be honest.

Dec 13, 2017 13:00:36 GMT 🤯 said:

It's going right into a bridge after a mega head drop that bothered me most. I have no problem with DB sneaking a win out somehow after taking the top rope Krusher, or even having a final fiery comeback... I just wish it could've been in some way that didn't involve Superman's vertebrae. Plus, DB had done the Dragon Suplex/Cattle Mutilation so much by that point, neither really seemed like his best shot. I get that when you're exhausted it's hard to think and thus much more likely that you keep going back to the well, but in real life, that's the kind of thing that fucks you.

I don't know how exactly it would've worked, but DB turning that top rope Krusher into a small package counter for the pinfall somehow would've been more ideal, I think.

I'm typically a stickler for people not long-term selling or not selling well enough, but when watching that match I didn't think about Dragon's neck being too hurt for him to execute Cattle Mutilation. Low Ki tapped almost immediately after the third Cattle Mutilation so he didn't need to keep the bridge maintained forever. I do agree that a different finish would have been better. Dragon wasn't Mr. Small Package at this point, but that would have been a cool conclusion.

I didn't suffer any burnout from watching two matches. The first was so short it had me wanting more. But after watching the second match, I knew watching the match Strobe posted would have been too much for one day, or even for a few days. I'll get to it soon.

🤯, LowKi faced Tajiri in ICW, run out of New York. I think the match took place at the Elks Lodge, which should have created a great atmosphere for what is and was essentially a dream match, but it was far from a classic. I think my biggest gripe, other than the short 8ish minute duration, was that their kicks were nowhere near as on point as they usually are, which sorta takes away from the main reason I wanted to see them wrestle in the first place.

Ok, here with go...

ROH Round Robin: Bryan Danielson vs. Low Ki

DB's got a fucked up eye... looks gross. Ki's got a new tat. That's cool, I guess.

ROH's production values seem to be at least up there with JAPW's so far.

And, huh? Here comes Ken Shamrock. Who makes DB and Ki look like tiny, young lil babies. That's so weird. The contrast here makes it very hard for me to imagine the likes of DB and Ki in a WWE ring tangling with their talent.

OK, so Shamrock is gonna referee this thing? Does that mean this is gonna be as hella dope as Bret/Austin from 'Mania 13!? It's weird when the ref for a match is twice as big as the wrestlers actually wrestling in the match.

Shamrock's explaining some rules that are a little hard to here. I assume this is just a regular singles match. Not submissions-only or anything. Wait... or is it?

So far this is off to as good of a start as the JAPW match. Also, this commentary is solid so far. Is this the bad commentary that people are ripping on in shinobimusashi's thread?

Loving Ki's viciousness with these punches and headbutts. Guessing he's taking the slight heel lean here?

Oooo... I like the built-in story that these guys have already wrestled tonight and are coming in with different injuries and energy reserves. I feel like I don't know those stories well enough though to know how they make sense in the specific context of this match. But the commentators are helping.

So far so good... but also not too terribly different than the JAPW match. Although, that said, maybe it does seem a hair more intense and stiff.

Love DB and Ki blocking each other's strikes there. And the commentators are explaining DB's eye to me. Loving this so far. Right now I'm giving it a slight edge over the JAPW match. Not sure how much the production values, ROH crowd, commentary, lack of burnout, etc. help though. I'll try not to give too much of a discount for those things. But I'm really loving the mat work here, and how they're literally fighting for everything.

WTF? Shamrock just dragged things back to the middle without breaking them apart? Seems weird, but not so weird as to totally take me out of things. It is funny though that the ref is big enough to drag two wrestlers across the ring together. :lol:

Please don't go 30-40-50-60 minutes... hahaha

This must be submissions-only? They keep exposing their backs in a way that suggests they're not worried about pinfalls.

Nice camera shot closeup of DB stretching Ki gives us a glimpse of the ROH crowd too. Where are the girls?

Oh, NICE kick from Ki! And it knocks DB to the floor.

Interesting... no count-outs in ROH? And I like that Ki didn't follow DB to the outside this time. Make this match stand out as more unique. Love the groggy DB now, and love that Ki took the time to stay inside the ring and recover some energy.

Oh, BOOM, Ki just applied a DB-like bridging hold on DB... taste your own medicine, butch! Oh, and then a pinfall attempt? So I guess this is just a regular singles match? Love that Shamrock is starting to count DB's shoulder down now when he's applying certain goofy submission holds. I love this stuff. shinobimusashi, have you seen this match yet? I think you'd love it too. Would be interested to see which you like more, this one or the JAPW match.

Love this leg submission deal with Ki kicking occasionally to keep fighting. And now he kicks his way out. Love it. These guys have so totally found their groove. And now these multi mini punts to DB's face. Love it! DB has to bail to the outside for a breather. And eye is busted open hardway?

I feel like Shamrock is a pretty underrated special guest ref... which gives me an idea for another random thread: best special guest refs in history!? Shamrock would be up there, IMO.

And DB comes firing back now with some frustrated fire. I love it! This is so good. This is what I'm talking about. I love it, love it, love it!

Love how there's really no heels or faces here. It makes it feel so sport-like. No idea how you blend the sports-like stuff I dig with the sports-entertainment gimmicky stuff that I also dig into a perfect fed. Not sure which I'd take in a This or That situation. Oh well...

Here comes a DB Dragon Suplex? Nope... Ki fights it off only to eat a snap back suplex. And now DB is lighting Ki up with that snapmare-into-spine-kick and some sweet chops! And I love how Ki can connect with kicks no matter what position he's in. So flexible. So versatile. So fluid. So good.

And now Mr. Intensity Low Ki is lighting DB up... showing him how the kicks and chops are really done. And throwing some fun knees in for good measure. Man, WWE missed out big time by not having an NXT showdown between DB and Kaval before Kaval peaced out and DB got all concussed.

Love this Ki Klutch that doubles as a pin attempt. I'm still thinking I favor this match over the JAPW match. The gap between them is growing bit by bit.

Love it... DB dives out through the ropes to escape, but Ki hangs on through it all and keeps the Ki Klutch applied! I feel like I haven't seem something exactly like that before. I dig it!

Fucking cool spot: Ki standing on DB's stomach, DB bridges up, Ki hits a double stomp. Fucking love.

And now DB hits a Dragon Suplex, and it's the best one he's hit in four matches so far. And then a snap butterfly suplex. Love that! Love the full nelson/double underhook-based offense. And then a diving headbutt, which is always a little awkward to watch now. And Ki with the awesome knee-to-the-face counter! Sorry about that 2015 Daniel Bryan!

Didn't realize the cartwheel kick had a name... Tital Wave? Meh. Ki hits his own Dragon Suplex but doesn't/can't bridge? Oh, nice! He's sending a message to DB... hitting the Cattle Mutilation! And now DB reverses it into Ki's Ki Klutch!!! Fucking love this sequence. This is the best DB/Ki match so far. JAPW was fucking good. This is fucking great.

Another decent view of the crowd. Where are the female ROH fans? Where are the non-white ROH fans? This promotion needs some gender/racial equity, yo! Just kidding, there was no such thing as gender/racial equity back in the early Twenty-Aughts. But anyway... back to the match.

Chop ad strike exchange. It feels so much more gritty now, which makes it feel so much more real and better. And that dropkick-to-the-gut springboard counter was fucking awesome. I'm so in. So in. Fucking love this. Love these guys.

Nice brainbuster, which I'm glad came before a Ki Krusher if the Krusher is being saved as the coup de grace here. Although, who needs the Ki Krusher when you have Ki's kicks. That's a damn shame he's had disappointing matches with Tajiri. Ahhh... there we go. This Ki Krusher and kickout felt so much more believable.

So now what? Phoenix Splash? Onto the knees. Tit for tat, Ki. Knee to the face on the headbutt, knees to the bread basket on the splash.

And now DB almost gets the 3 on another Dragon Suplex. Maybe DB would've had the 3 if he'd switched it up and tried a Tiger Suplex instead. Oh well. The top rope back suplex looked good. It really seems like they took the masterpiece from JAPW and put the perfect finishing touches on it with this match here.

Top rope Ki Krusher better fucking end this match though. Ki's selling the effects too though, and DB is rolling lifelessly to the floor, so totally acceptable for this match to keep going. That's how you do something ridiculous but believably keep the match going. Fucking love it. Fucking love it. Fucking. Love. It.

And DB doesn't have it in him to kick out, but he's smart enough/alive enough to get a foot on the rope. Perfect. Genius.

Love how this is breaking down into a stagger strike-fest now. They're selling the fatigue and damage perfectly.

YES! NO! FUCK! Loved that cradle back suplex. And now he hits the Cattle Mutilation. After a top rope Ki Krusher, this is dumb from a logic standpoint... but I'm so pumped up on adrenaline right now, I can buy DB being cranked on adrenaline too. And he let it go, tried to go for something else, couldn't get it, so went back to his Cattle Mutilation... fuck it, I'M OK WITH THIS!!!

Ki's gonna pass out, isn't he? To keep him strong? Or we're gonna do the 2.9999 arm drops thing, aren't we? NOPE! Ki does pass out. It's ROH's spin on Bret/Austin from 'Mania 13 after all, special guest ref Shamrock included!

These guys are SPENT. As they should be after that war. This was fucking great. Loved it. Love the post-match selling. This is all great. I'm chanting "RING OF HONOR" along with the fans. But honestly, I feel like a more appropriate chant would be "D-B-LOW-KI! D-B-LOW-KI!"

Man, after this, it's a shame that DB and Ki weren't a few inches taller and jacked... they would've/should've been insta-signed by WWE and put on the Blue Brand to tangle with the SD!6. This match also makes me sad we never got DB vs. Brock, and fuck... indy/ROH version of Low Ki vs. Brock would've been hella cool too. Not so sure about Kaval based on what I can remember.

The sportsmanship after the match is such an interesting spin on the pro wrestling thing. I can't wait to launch my true deep dive into ROH to catch up with Shin. If all ROH is this good, my brain is probably gonna explode.

Now, time for a little change of pace...

I found Brock Lesnar vs. Shinsuke Nakamura from a NJPW's 01/04/06 Tokyo Dome show. Considering where they're both at in WWE today, and how a match between them is probably considered somewhat of a dream match, I thought this would be interesting to check out. Shinsuke looks NOTHING like his current self, and really... neither does Brock, who's rocking a chin strap beard and maroon tights. This is clearly somewhere in time between the Vikings not panning out but pre-UFC.

Anyway...

NJPW 01/04/06: Brock Lesnar vs. Shinsuke Nakamura

Brock is looking big, and he just tears into Shin to start. He's mauling and tossing Shin around like he's a rookie in 2002 WWE again. But here comes Shin, firing back a bit. But Brock keeps cutting him off with tree limb clotheslines. This is an interesting look for Brock. And an interesting environment. I definitely need to check out more of Brock's work in Japan.

Brock is just pummeling Shin! Even Shin's best tricks don't halt Brock for long. What was Shin's story around this time? Was he just some midcard nobody? Or was Brock being pushed over NJPW's big names, and Shin was a big name made to look like no real match for the latest gaijin monster?

As a diehard Brock mark, I'm digging this. Shin kinda mistimes a suicide dive through the ropes. And Brock is up first possibly as a result. I fucking love Brock's offense. And this maroon-and-white look, even despite the debut of his chest penis tat, might be his coolest look IMO.

Things have slowed down a bit, and now Brock seems to just be toying with Shin. And he pays for his hubris, missing a leaping elbow drop. And Shin applies a sleeper. Maybe that's the only way to beat the Beast... put him to sleep. Just kidding. There's no way to beat the Best. Brock powers up and out, and rams Shin into the corner. And then stomps his kidneys into mush for good measure.

Gotta admire the fight in Shin though. If Shin pulls out a win though, the way this has gone so far, it better be a fluke pin... because he's been made to look like a straight-up jobber here. I mean, he's got this sweet armbar applied to a standing Brock, with Brock's arm draped over the top rope... but I'm so totally hoping it's just a cool setup for Brock to hoist Shin up and hit a one-armed powerbomb escape... ideally powerbombing Shin to the floor from the ring. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen... Shin just lets go. Boo!

Shin comes off the top with a front dropkick, and then hits a nice German. There's some spunk left in this guy yet! But he's probably just pissing Brock off. Flowing scissored armbar though. So who knows? I'm still waiting for that beast powerbomb counter. And here it comes! So fucking good. Easily my favorite submission hold counter of all time.

And now the Beast has been awakened! F5... or the Verdict, whatever Brock was calling it in Japan... and it's done! Not a bad sub 10-minute match, but nothing unique or special-feeling. Shin just feel like any old fodder jobber really. I have a feeling a match between present-day Brock and present-day Shin in WWE at like 'Mania or something would be a lot different.

Still though, not a terrible waste of 9 minutes.

These 🤯 reviews are great for just finding another person that thinks the Cattle Mutilation is the Dragon's worst submission, and kind of stupid looking. The actual reviews are great too.

Yeah 🤯 I watched the Daniels vs Low Ki match, that was the 2nd ROH show if I'm not mistaken, definitely my favorite match of the first 5 shows so far, excellent stuff. Great reviews man.

I think the Cattle Mutilation looks cool but can tell you from first hand experience that it does not hurt at all.

Shamrock has to be up there for GOAT special guest ref. That's not much of an accomplishment though since I think most special guest ref's suck (Flair, Jackie Fargo, Gene Kiniski, Ole Anderson, etc.) as they're all about getting themselves over.

Haven't seen any of it but I remember reading that early Shinsuke Nakamura was booked as a strongly pushed MMA inspired prodigy. Oddly enough, the big knock on him back then was a lack of charisma.

Female fans were a rarity in early ROH.

Watched American Dragon vs. Reckless Youth from the 2001 ECWA Super 8 a few days back when this early 2000s indy/ROH kick started. This was a 2nd round tournament match on Dragon & Ki's big breakout night. Don't think it even went 10 minutes, so it certainly did not wear out its welcome. I haven't seen a ton of Reckless (and wasn't the biggest "Technician" Tom Carter fan) but this is the best Reckless match I have seen. He didn't look that out of place against Dragon aside from maybe a few weak strikes. The always-good ECWA crowd got really into it as the match progressed. Dragon did some sweet stretching early, a couple awesome Taz-level fancy bridging suplexes highlighted by a Dragon & an awesome bridging fallaway slam. Reckless came back to drill Dragon with a clothesline for 2.9 that I remember being described at the time as "the hardest lariat ever thrown on US soil." I'm not sure how much of it was impact and how much was due to Dragon's great selling, as he's probably the all time greatest clothesline taker. He'd do this quasi-Jannetty sell, but more believable. Reckless goes up top looking for his Frog Splash finisher following the big clothesline, and he had one of the best frog splashes, but Dragon isn't hurt enough. He meets Youth up top and takes him down with a top rope Divorce Court, which appears to be a better idea in theory than in practice as it did not look all that good. Dragon quickly segues into Cattle Mutilation for the tap and a big pop.

Verdict- Good match. Folks would still be prattling on about this had it taken place on Nitro.

Dec 14, 2017 2:18:46 GMT Baker said:

That's not much of an accomplishment though since I think most special guest ref's suck (Flair, Jackie Fargo, Gene Kiniski, Ole Anderson, etc.) as they're all about getting themselves over.

Piper. WOAT.

Dec 14, 2017 2:32:36 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 14, 2017 2:18:46 GMT Baker said:

That's not much of an accomplishment though since I think most special guest ref's suck (Flair, Jackie Fargo, Gene Kiniski, Ole Anderson, etc.) as they're all about getting themselves over.

Piper. WOAT.

That's a bold statement. Have you seen Taker vs. Austin w/ Flair as special guest ref or Lawler vs. Hennig w/ Fargo doing his best to ruin a classic?

Dec 14, 2017 2:39:43 GMT Baker said:

Dec 14, 2017 2:32:36 GMT Kilgore said:

Piper. WOAT.

That's a bold statement. Have you seen Taker vs. Austin w/ Flair as special guest ref or Lawler vs. Hennig w/ Fargo doing his best to ruin a classic?

No to both. Maybe I'll have to walk back my statement.  :lol:

Piper is horrific, though. 

Dec 14, 2017 3:02:29 GMT Kilgore said:

Dec 14, 2017 2:39:43 GMT Baker said:

That's a bold statement. Have you seen Taker vs. Austin w/ Flair as special guest ref or Lawler vs. Hennig w/ Fargo doing his best to ruin a classic?

No to both. Maybe I'll have to walk back my statement.  :lol:

Piper is horrific, though. 

I'll second Piper. I was OK with Flair in that Austin/Undertaker match, for whatever reason.

As far as GOATs, I think Ventura's up there... Right? Or do I just have weird special guest ref tastes?

American Dragon vs. Low Ki JAPW 6/7/02
This is the match that Strobe posted and that PI reviewed on the last page. I agree that it's by far the best of the three matches between these two. It's a submission rules match. In my experience, that means two guys (often with submission finishers) wrestle a normal match with maybe a little extra limb work and grappling. Not in this case. This match is 80% grappling. And it's very good grappling. Some of the transitions and counters on the ground make me think of Angle vs Benoit mat wrestling, and even the amazing grappling of PRIDE legends Sakuraba and Carlos Newton in places. Really slick stuff. The match seamlessly transitions between this shoot style/MMA grappling and pro-wrestliing holds. We see a lot of regular holds: crossfaces, sleeper holds, half crabs, grapevines. We also see a bunch of original, crazy holds I've never seen before, all from Dragon. My favourite one of these is a hold I cannot possibly describe in words. If you want to know, find the video and watch at 10:45.

The grappling is top notch, and so is the psychology. Early in the match, Dragon applies Low Ki's finishing hold, the Dragon Clutch. The commentators are slow to pick up on this. They clearly haven't watched enough Low Ki. It would have come across as contrived if Low Ki applied the Cattle Mutilation the moment he gained control. Instead they keep grappling as normal, and a few minutes later, Low Ki does apply Dragon's signature hold when I wasn't expecting it at all. I thought that was a cool touch. There are a handful of striking/brawling moments in the match. They are all initiated by Low Ki. Low Ki is a great technical wrestler, but Dragon is greater. For every hold Low Ki applied, Dragon applied two or three. So it makes perfect sense for Ki to try and weaken Dragon in the arena where he is greatest. Dragon would try to fight with Ki for a short while, but soon score with a takedown to return the match to the mat. I also love the realism. For example, the moment where Dragon double legs Low Ki before the Liontamer. It isn't a super smooth double leg like you would see in most matches. He scoops the legs, lifts Ki up, who is flailing, caught off guard, and dumps him on the mat. That was probably a shoot takedown. The striking was also realistic for the style they were working. Very few fancy strikes. Ki mostly used short and sharp knee strikes. Dragon stuck to knee strikes and vicious forearm crossfaces on the ground.

Also noteworthy is the lack of kicks from Low Ki. In previous matches, Ki demonstrated an ability to kick his way out of almost any hold. I'm sure he could have done that many times, but he chose not to in this match. He kicked maybe three times in the entire match, and two of those were in the final couple of minutes. That meant I didn't get to see the amazing Tidal Crush, but it's a price worth paying. That move wouldn't have fit at all. But there is some flash at the end. Dragon hits two German suplexes, and a Dragon suplex, just before they go to the finish where Ki catches Dragon with a flying armbar for a minor upset. Great match.

The LowKi vs Dragon love here is making me proud to be a member of this site. Those two kids changed the game back then with their epic battles. Wish they got to face each other at a WWE PPV, specifically opening a WM, but I guess I'll have to settle for that one FCW match they had while both were in WWE developmental, which was fun but obviously due to the limitating environment it was never touching their indy classics.

The Revival (c) vs. DIY- NXT Takeover: Brooklyn II 8/20/16- NXT Tag Title Match

DIY is Tomasso Ciampa and Johnny Gargano. Ciampa was one of the better guys in ROH a few years back. He had intensity and an explosiveness + way of stringing moves together reminiscent of the great Austin Aries.

This will be my first time seeing Gargano.

We get a pre-match hype video chronicling this feud which is always helpful to people like myself. It's nothing special but at least now I know how we got here.

Neither team has very good entrance music.

I'd rate this one a hair below the Revival vs. American Alpha Takeover match I watched a while back. Revival once again broke out like a million cool tricks but it didn't have quite the impact it did when seeing it for the first time. I also preferred American Alpha to DIY because suplexes > indieriffic superkick + knee strike offense.

Let's talk about some of those Revival tricks.....

Constantly yelling "Come on, Dash!" or "Tag me, Dawson!" while reaching out their hand as far as humanly possible whenever one of them is in trouble. These guys get tag team wrestling better than just about everybody ever.

Dawson ducks a Ciampa chop! So simple. So brilliant. Why don't more people do this rather than engage in stupid chop battles? I'm also fairly certain he immediately bailed to the floor. Sadly he did not point to his head, but he may have hugged Dash, in which case this was a 9.5/10 little segment.

A few of their typically great hot tag cutoffs.

They also broke out a sort of back drop into a Gourdbuster*. Very cool.

And a Demolition Decapitation where Dash got great height on the 2nd rope elbow drop.

Revival breaking out all these cool 80s tag team finishers makes me like them even more than I already did.

Dawson cements his status as the next Arn Anderson by jacking Arn's fake punch into a DDT spot. He tried it again later in the match but the DIY guy is ready for it this time around. Psychology!

After all these years of Next Benoit's, which was really just Next Dynamite Kid, and Next HBK's, and Next Jericho's, and even a few Next Triple H's, who knew all modern wrestling really needed was the Next Arn Anderson? 

The bulk of this match was a step down from AA/Revival but the finishing stretch was just ridiculous in a good way. They did a million nearfalls. But not off Burning Hammer's or anything stupid like that. Nope. Just fancy rollups based on crazy good timing and teamwork. Think Rockers vs. Orient Express. Crowd was red hot rooting for the faces while booing the heels, which is as it should be.

Then Gargano's leg which was injured a while before this gets clipped. Dawson eventually locks on a "reverse figure four" which was sort of like Jamie Noble's old Trailer Hitch for the surprise tap out. Revival win! All is right with the world.

Revival ruled as always with Dawson in particular being the standout, also as usual.

Ciampa & Gargano held up their end of the bargain when it came to timing and being in the right place at the right time....that sort of thing. But I've watched enough ROH over the past few years to be completely desensitized to their superkick & knee strike heavy offense. Did like Gargano's weird spear from the apron through the ropes and that one superkick + knee strike killshot double team they did was cool. 

Verdict- **** Had some slow spots but the Revival did enough cool tricks to keep it from getting too boring and it really picked up down the stretch. Some of those nearfalls were nuts. I also liked how a body part injury actually played into the finish. Of course, I should expect nothing less from the Revival.

*Gourdbuster= front suplex in this case, which I hate calling a gourdbuster, as everybody knows the REAL Gourdbuster is "Outlaw" Ron Bass' proto-Pedigree.

Remaining 2017 goal: Watch every big Revival match before 2018 arrives.

WWE Presents: The Revival - The True Mechanics of Sports Entertainment featuring:

The Mechanics vs. Finn Balor & Samoa Joe - NXT TakeOver: Respect
Dash Wilder & Scott Dawson vs. The Vaudevillains - NXT 11/11/15
Dash Wilder & Scott Dawson vs. Enzo Amore & Big Cass - NXT TakeOver: London
The Revival vs. Enzo Amore & Big Cass - NXT TakeOver: Roadblock
The Revival vs. American Alpha - NXT TakeOver: Dallas
The Revival vs. American Alpha - NXT TakeOver: The End
The Revival vs. American Alpha - NXT 7/6/16
The Revival vs. DIY - NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn II
The Revival vs. DIY - NXT TakeOver: Toronto
The Revival vs. DIY - NXT 1/11/17
The Revival vs. DIY vs. The Authors of Pain - NXT TakeOver: Orlando

I remember placing the Toronto match ahead of all the other Alpha matches in our MotY tournament last year. Also, I really enjoyed their last TakeOver match and thought it was a nice chapter in their rivalry with DIY.

Breaking down TNA for Shin stirred my curiosity and sent me down a TNA rabbit hole. The gist of TNA around 2010 was that it was a trainwreck, but I couldn't remember many of the specifics for the life of me. So I went back for a refresher, just to see what TNA tried to do in their bid to go head to head with the WWE.

Impact - Jan. 4th 2010
The show was largely nothing but pro-Hogan propaganda and a bunch of cameos. The big storyline of the night saw the Wolfpac save Bischoff from Foley who had been barred from the building. The Wolfpac are trying to score big contracts, but Hogan & Bischoff won't budge until they earn them and they're more interested in pushing the 'young guys'. The planned tag team title cage match between Beer Money & The British Invasion was pushed aside for Kurt Angle vs. AJ Styles for the TNA Championship. The match was supposed to main event Genesis, but Bischoff & Hogan wanted to give the fans something special. They had a hell of a match with AJ going over clean and it salvaged what had been an otherwise goofy episode.

TNA Genesis
Since TNA blew their load on the January 4th show, this had all the momentum of a typical Impact episode. The show marked the return of the 4-sided ring which the TNA-bots hated and Hogan put them on blast calling the 6-sides a pig-pen. Brian Kendrick, Val Venis (Sean Morley) & Mr. Anderson (Kennedy) all made their TNA debuts on the show. Kendrick had arguably the best match of the show in the opener against Amazing Red for the X-Division Championship. Mr. Anderson subbed for Bobby Lashley who was knocked out cold backstage in a match against Abyss, that largely sucked. And Val Venis defeated Daniels who was fresh off facing AJ Styles for the TNA Championship at the last PPV. Venis at this point resembles Shane Douglas circa '99 and comes out to a weird Too Cool knock-off theme. TNA is trying to push him as a babyface but the fans aren't having any of it. In the main event, Styles/Angle had an inferior version of their Jan 4th match, where Flair got involved and helped Styles turn heel on Angle to retain the title. The other big match saw Beer Money def. The Wolfpac after Scott Hall stumbled out to ring-side, got into it with a 'fan' at the crowd and Beer Money capitilised on the distraction. It was originally supposed to be The Outsiders vs. Beer Money, but Hall and Pac switched places after playing scissors, paper, rock. It wasn't a bad show, but since there was little build-up it was difficult to get invested.

On the road to Against All Odds...
Ok, so when fans say that TNA was a trainwreck, that's because it was genuinely portrayed that way. The post-Genesis show saw a bunch of rematches, including Styles-Angle for the belt (3rd time in 3 weeks) which ended when Earl Hebner pulled a Montreal Screwjob on Angle. Hogan came to ring-side, only for Angle to spit in his face and quit the company. Hogan has had enough of the Wolfpac and has put Nash in a tag team with Eric Young, while barring Hall & Pac from the company. THat doesn't stop Hall & Pac from showing up. Foley supposedly attacked Bischoff on one of the Impacts, leaving Eric a bloody mess and firing Foley at the end of the show. One week later, Hogan made them smoke the peace pipe and the story now sees Bischoff going after Abyss and Jeremy Borash so Foley has to comply with his commands. Meanwhile Jarrett is facing a similar predicament where he's being forced to work under Hogan & Bischoff and they've deprived him of all his luxuries.

While all this is going on, AJ Styles is literally cosplaying as Ric Flair and coming off like a total geek. There's a tournament to determine the #1 contender for Lockdown which features Elijah Burke, Magnus, Nigel McGuiness, Daniels, Val Venis, Mr. Anderson, Hernandez and Matt Morgan. The Dudley Boyz are back from NJPW and they're in the middle of a 'dream match' program against the Nasty Boys. Douglas Williams just stole Rob Terry's feast or fired briefcase and cashed it on Amazing Red to become the new X-Division champion, which completely derailed the Red-Kendrick feud that was brewing. Victoria has a Jake the Snake gimmick, where she goes by Tara and puts a Tarantula on her opponents. She's naturally a babyface at this point and recently regained the Knockout's Championship, blowing One Dirty Bitch out of the water in a 2/3 Falls match 2-0. The rest of the Knockouts are too busy feuding over their own tag belts, which Awesome Kong & Hamada hold.

Finally despite appearing on the Jan 4th show, Jeff Hardy hasn't been sighted since in TNA. He was arguably their biggest acquisition and there's been barely any mention of him. Bobby Lashley was also fired from the company by Bischoff after threatening to walk for weeks leading up to it. The Lashley storyline was confusing in the sense that he had only just signed with TNA, was one of their biggest stars and then he didn't wrestle at all under the Hogan/Bischoff regime. Instead of putting any of the boys over on the way out, he put over Bischoff's authority and left with his tail between his legs.

There's a lot going on, but most of it is overshadowed by the Hogan-Bischoff-Flair-Wolfpac-Foley-Jarrett drama. The show isn't necessarily horrible yet, but they've thrown so many ideas at the wall, it's tough to wrap your head around any of it. The highlights so far have been Styles-Angle, MCMG-Bucks, Kendrick-Red and McGuiness' ring-work in general.

Meanwhile on Raw, Michaels is chasing after a match against The Undertaker and Vince McMahon is having it out with Bret Hart.

Come to think of it, The Revival's NXT run was surprisingly short, and they only had the chance to have long/great matches with two teams: American Alpha and D.I.Y. I was clamoring for a match between Revival and Authors of Pain, but they never did book a one-on-one tag match between the two. I get it, heel vs heel is bad, but Revival would have been the de facto faces because they can work. Wouldn't have been as good as their best matches, but I will forever be intrigued as to how they would work that match.

Caught a few random wrestling matches on my treadmil recently. First I watched Hayabusa vs Atsushi Onita Exploding Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match from FMW. I had never seen this before and I booked an Exploding Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match in my fan fic draft entry so I used this match to hype it up. This was an excellent match. Not quite as good as Onita vs Terry Funk exploding babred wire time bomb match or the womens exploding barbed wire match that Strobe raves about often(2 of my favorite matches of all time) but still really damn good match with some of the most dramatic tension you will ever find in a wrestling match. There are a lot of little subtle things that Onita does in this match that make this gruesome style of wrestling like an art form, it's a beautiful thing really.

Also Necro Butcher vs New Jack popped up in the recommendations so I couldn't help myself, I had to check it out. I don't know much about this Butcher feller but what I have seen I kinda like the guy. This match was from some indy show in 2013. Ugly weapons match with both guys bleeding all over the place. I'm ok with blood in wrestling but something about when BOTH guys in a match are bleeding it kind of grosses me out for some reason. This wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be though.

This led me to Necro Butcher vs Low Ki from an IWA Midsouth show. This was a fucking excellent ECW style match with Low Ki beating the shit out of this feller, I loved it.

What I want for Christmas is a Baker review of Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Kroffat/Furnas.

Dec 19, 2017 14:01:18 GMT shinobimusashi said:

Caught a few random wrestling matches on my treadmil recently. First I watched Hayabusa vs Atsushi Onita Exploding Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match from FMW. I had never seen this before and I booked an Exploding Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match in my fan fic draft entry so I used this match to hype it up. This was an excellent match. Not quite as good as Onita vs Terry Funk exploding babred wire time bomb match or the womens exploding barbed wire match that Strobe raves about often(2 of my favorite matches of all time) but still really damn good match with some of the most dramatic tension you will ever find in a wrestling match. There are a lot of little subtle things that Onita does in this match that make this gruesome style of wrestling like an art form, it's a beautiful thing really.

Couldn't remember if I've seen this one. Just did a quick read of the PWO thread for the context and I don't think I have or I don't remember it. This was Onita's original retirement match with him having recently sold FMW. The match was originally supposed to be Onita against the promotion's #2 guy Tarzan Goto. But Goto, realising he'd lose to Onita and then be expected to carry the company, left. Others were offered the spot and turned it down before Hayabusa (who had only appeared in the promotion once under that gimmick) took it.

Dec 19, 2017 15:09:57 GMT Strobe said:

What I want for Christmas is a Baker review of Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Kroffat/Furnas.

It's funny you bring this up now because I FINALLY set out to watch it yesterday. I got a few minutes in (up to Kikuchi dying twice on back to back Furnas press slams onto unforgiving surfaces) when distractions set in. I blame Christmas. But I promise to watch it and have a review up on, or before, Christmas!

I've actually had trouble making it through anything these past few days. Other matches I conked out on include Dragon Lee vs. Barbaro Cavernario (sp? I did say I was gonna give Lucha another shot...), some Owen & Bulldog tag, a NJPW match w/ Vader, Savio, Yoko, Bigelow & Headshrinker Samu all on the same team(!) against a New Japan all star squad, a Motorcity Machineguns match, a match from something called Beyond Wrestling, and...umm...I did make it through Sal Sincere's WWF debut match vs. Dan Jesser because of course I did. 

Salvatore Sincere= the biggest draw of them all 

And I don't want to ruffle any feathers or anything but I can't hold it back anymore, I tried watching Raw last night because I heard Ronda was approaching. This was the first time I've watched Raw in a long time, not only do I not know how anybody watches this show I don't know how WWE stays in business running arenas with shows like this every week. This was some kind of bad.

Dec 19, 2017 18:38:45 GMT shinobimusashi said:

And I don't want to ruffle any feathers or anything but I can't hold it back anymore, I tried watching Raw last night because I heard Ronda was approaching. This was the first time I've watched Raw in a long time, not only do I not know how anybody watches this show I don't know how WWE stays in business running arenas with shows like this every week. This was some kind of bad.

It's fine, everyone who frequents HoW hates or doesn't watch modern WWE :lol:

I get what you're saying. Looking back, I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did, but as a long time WWE diehard, it was really hard to pull myself away even when I was consciously aware of hating 75% of their content. It was finally too much when Daniel Bryan got injured shortly after reaching the top of the mountain at Wrestlemania 30. WWE only got worse from then on, and has been consistently awful, with only a few Lesnar matches/AJ Styles matches/Miz promos as the rare gems in a pile of shit.